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Release Notes 6/21/2018

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  • soulforgersoulforger Posts: 1,649 Arc User
    tangent90 wrote: »
    soulforger wrote: »
    Free Form slot has not been out for ten years. That is actually less than 5 years old. 10 years ago there was no need for such a slot, because the game required a subscription back than to play. Back than, everyone that played was gold. Everyone was free form, there were no Archtypes. But, yes, when they came out with that horribly priced FF slot, I was disappointed to see the price. Happy that it got lowered, but, still to high in my opinion.

    A freeform slot should be priced to encourage impulse purchases. My threshold for impulse purchases is about $15, which you can easily justify to yourself by noting that it's the cost of a month's subscription.

    I would never have bought a $50 freeform slot, and won't spend $60 on three slots. That's because, realistically speaking, it's easy to justify a $15 dollar charge on the credit card by telling your wife, "It's just $15." I might pay $20 for a freeform slot, but since $30, or $50 or $60 is "real money," it's a no-go for me to spend on a game.

    Yeah, kinda why I say the price is still to high in my opinion.
  • circleofpsi#4619 circleofpsi Posts: 2,913 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    -Dual post for the win-
    Psi.
  • soulforgersoulforger Posts: 1,649 Arc User
    I should say, I like the price drops and the changes here, it's pretty good and benefits all, players will be a bit happy about this.


    the only thing that sucks is the cap but I understand why, probably issues with the storage and 'lag' and 'performance' issues or whatever, personally I think they should invest in the servers and storage but that won't happen. glad it's 100 now not 59, ^_^

    as for the character slot when reaching 40 for gold and LTS, don't lie, that was a feature, not a bug.
    i'm going to sell someone oranges and say it includes some apples, but then I'll take away the apples.

    edit: fixed some typos or whatever.

    You sell the oranges and say you'll include a free apple for every orange ate, but, change that to only one free apple.

    That is what happened here.
  • alriialrii Posts: 63 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    jaazaniah1 wrote: »
    https://web.archive.org/web/20110207211957/www.champions-online.com/f2p_matrix

    Umm, you did notice that there are a variety of things on that page that are different now, right? E.g. Adventure Packs are now free for everyone. Should we go back to making silvers pay for them since it is on this archived page? The resource cap for silvers is now 500; should it be rolled back to 250 since that is what is on this page?

    yah but they never said stuff like "silvers were always meant to have a cap of 500", you know they changed stuff instead of outright saying that this is how it was always meant to be

    like i said earlier ppl are going to be way way more angry about the blatant spit-in-the-face lie rather than the actual change itself

    edits:

    p.s. - cryptic has always been poor at communicating (across all the games) and this is happening here now again; ppl would be way more understanding (tho still not happy) at least if this stuff could get wrinkled out

    p.p.s. - f2p and subs and lts whatever, we all love the game, none of us truly want the game to not make money and throw everything at us for 100% free, yaaaah there will always be grumbling about changes but a lie like that will srsly sour all relations from here on esp. when the existing lack of communication and us arguing w/ each other already has us on edge
  • yinepuhotepgamesyinepuhotepgames Posts: 49 Arc User
    jaazaniah1 wrote: »
    https://web.archive.org/web/20110207211957/www.champions-online.com/f2p_matrix

    Umm, you did notice that there are a variety of things on that page that are different now, right? E.g. Adventure Packs are now free for everyone. Should we go back to making silvers pay for them since it is on this archived page? The resource cap for silvers is now 500; should it be rolled back to 250 since that is what is on this page?

    You do notice that they LIED about the feature, right?

    If they had honestly said something like "we're not going to pay for the server space for you altoholics", there would be some grumbling, like there is for every change, but not the anger that has come about because they LIED and claimed that an advertised feature is a bug.
    --

    Coffee, chocolate, bacon, and phasers. What more do I need?
  • circleofpsi#4619 circleofpsi Posts: 2,913 Arc User
    Everyone who is claiming this is a "violation of their Lifetime sub." First of all, ToS is subject to updates and I'm sure it says somewhere that it can change the subs at any time. Otherwise the new requirements put out by either Cryptic or PWI wouldn't be legal. In this case, they are.

    Second of all, we already knew that the Lifetimers wouldn't be getting character slots anymore. This isn't news. A bug is a bug and will impact gameplay negatively one way or another. One doesn't have to see the bugs for it to be there. The Dev Team knows it's there and it's affecting us somehow that it needs to be stopped.

    A lot of people will be salty about these changes; I personally really appreciate the price adjustments on character slots. Someone will always find a reason to nitpick and hinder any actual good in a big update.​​

    THANK YOU!

    The people salty about this kown where the door is, however the new slots and price drop is a MASSIVE welcome. Good job kaizerin, much round appeals.

    People forget that other games do this as well, an big example is Warframe, where they have a bug in-game, not aware of it and then fix it, even if the bug has been around for years, and there are legit 10000000 reasons why, they were unable to address it, and even if someone does try to "claim they kown why, oh god wow", they are wrong, no matter how they color it.

    A bug, is a bug, in the end of the day, get over it.
    Psi.
  • iamruneiamrune Posts: 965 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    jaazaniah1 wrote: »
    https://web.archive.org/web/20110207211957/www.champions-online.com/f2p_matrix

    Umm, you did notice that there are a variety of things on that page that are different now, right? E.g. Adventure Packs are now free for everyone. Should we go back to making silvers pay for them since it is on this archived page? The resource cap for silvers is now 500; should it be rolled back to 250 since that is what is on this page?

    Well, obviously it is an older version of the comparison matrix and things can and will change, but it does not mean it's suddenly okay to lie and claim a feature we were advertised is suddenly now a bug.

    Honestly engaging your community and telling us "Hey we can't keep doing this, we need you guys to buy these now, so how about we lower the cost" is what Perfectworld should be doing here.
  • yinepuhotepgamesyinepuhotepgames Posts: 49 Arc User
    cryneting wrote: »
    Everyone who is claiming this is a "violation of their Lifetime sub." First of all, ToS is subject to updates and I'm sure it says somewhere that it can change the subs at any time. Otherwise the new requirements put out by either Cryptic or PWI wouldn't be legal. In this case, they are.

    Second of all, we already knew that the Lifetimers wouldn't be getting character slots anymore. This isn't news. A bug is a bug and will impact gameplay negatively one way or another. One doesn't have to see the bugs for it to be there. The Dev Team knows it's there and it's affecting us somehow that it needs to be stopped.

    A lot of people will be salty about these changes; I personally really appreciate the price adjustments on character slots. Someone will always find a reason to nitpick and hinder any actual good in a big update.​​

    THANK YOU!

    The people salty about this kown where the door is, however the new slots and price drop is a MASSIVE welcome. Good job kaizerin, much round appeals.

    People forget that other games do this as well, an big example is Warframe, where they have a bug in-game, not aware of it and then fix it, even if the bug has been around for years, and there are legit 10000000 reasons why, they were unable to address it, and even if someone does try to "claim they kown why, oh god wow", they are wrong, no matter how they color it.

    A bug, is a bug, in the end of the day, get over it.

    Except this is not a bug, as the links to the Wayback Machine demonstrate. It was an advertised feature of the game, presented as a perk for having a Gold account. Their attempt now to claim that it is a bug is a blatant lie.
    --

    Coffee, chocolate, bacon, and phasers. What more do I need?
  • circleofpsi#4619 circleofpsi Posts: 2,913 Arc User
    If the extra slots are a "bug" why is it that Cryptic advertised them as a feature of having a Gold account when Free to Play was introduced in 2011?

    Do please go to https://web.archive.org/web/20110207211957/www.champions-online.com/f2p_matrix for verification of this fact.

    Maybe you missed out the big BETA next do it, get your facts right, before you throw your salt at the screen, A BUG, is a bug, Beta is where it's in the stage of change, it got left in, forgotten about and was only addressed today.

    Is this game YOURS?, no..I didn't think so.
    Psi.
  • shadowolf505shadowolf505 Posts: 697 Arc User
    cryneting wrote: »
    Everyone who is claiming this is a "violation of their Lifetime sub." First of all, ToS is subject to updates and I'm sure it says somewhere that it can change the subs at any time. Otherwise the new requirements put out by either Cryptic or PWI wouldn't be legal. In this case, they are.

    Second of all, we already knew that the Lifetimers wouldn't be getting character slots anymore. This isn't news. A bug is a bug and will impact gameplay negatively one way or another. One doesn't have to see the bugs for it to be there. The Dev Team knows it's there and it's affecting us somehow that it needs to be stopped.

    A lot of people will be salty about these changes; I personally really appreciate the price adjustments on character slots. Someone will always find a reason to nitpick and hinder any actual good in a big update.

    THANK YOU!

    The people salty about this kown where the door is, however the new slots and price drop is a MASSIVE welcome. Good job kaizerin, much round appeals.

    People forget that other games do this as well, an big example is Warframe, where they have a bug in-game, not aware of it and then fix it, even if the bug has been around for years, and there are legit 10000000 reasons why, they were unable to address it, and even if someone does try to "claim they kown why, oh god wow", they are wrong, no matter how they color it.

    A bug, is a bug, in the end of the day, get over it.

    Eh, the Devs are making changes to help out so I'm going with this too.​​
    || Main Tank || DPSer || Healer || CCer || Altoholic || @shadowolf505 in game ||
  • soulforgersoulforger Posts: 1,649 Arc User
    "Second of all, we already knew that the Lifetimers wouldn't be getting character slots anymore. This isn't news. A bug is a bug and will impact gameplay negatively one way or another. One doesn't have to see the bugs for it to be there. The Dev Team knows it's there and it's affecting us somehow that it needs to be stopped.​​"

    Only thing that was a bug was the fact the free character slots allowed a person to go over the character cap (yes, there was one a long time ago, but, it was never really talked about, in fact, I only knew about it because of a support ticket I put in because I couldn't buy anymore character slots in the C-Store, and was told that happened because I hit the character slot limit). That was the only bug. The getting a free slot for every level 40 was not a bug.
  • shadowolf505shadowolf505 Posts: 697 Arc User
    cryneting wrote: »
    Everyone who is claiming this is a "violation of their Lifetime sub." First of all, ToS is subject to updates and I'm sure it says somewhere that it can change the subs at any time. Otherwise the new requirements put out by either Cryptic or PWI wouldn't be legal. In this case, they are.

    Second of all, we already knew that the Lifetimers wouldn't be getting character slots anymore. This isn't news. A bug is a bug and will impact gameplay negatively one way or another. One doesn't have to see the bugs for it to be there. The Dev Team knows it's there and it's affecting us somehow that it needs to be stopped.

    A lot of people will be salty about these changes; I personally really appreciate the price adjustments on character slots. Someone will always find a reason to nitpick and hinder any actual good in a big update.

    THANK YOU!

    The people salty about this kown where the door is, however the new slots and price drop is a MASSIVE welcome. Good job kaizerin, much round appeals.

    People forget that other games do this as well, an big example is Warframe, where they have a bug in-game, not aware of it and then fix it, even if the bug has been around for years, and there are legit 10000000 reasons why, they were unable to address it, and even if someone does try to "claim they kown why, oh god wow", they are wrong, no matter how they color it.

    A bug, is a bug, in the end of the day, get over it.

    Except this is not a bug, as the links to the Wayback Machine demonstrate. It was an advertised feature of the game, presented as a perk for having a Gold account. Their attempt now to claim that it is a bug is a blatant lie.

    Lots of things will always be advertised in a game but not fully acknowledged to be a feature in my eyes. If a game developer says it's a bug, it's a bug. Simple as that for me.​​
    || Main Tank || DPSer || Healer || CCer || Altoholic || @shadowolf505 in game ||
  • iamruneiamrune Posts: 965 Arc User
    iamrune wrote: »
    We got screens too.. and they can't really make it completely vanish. it's on the internet wayback machine archive.

    oh, and before someone tries to claim that is from the F2P beta and the 'feature' never was supposed to go live, the Internet Archive has later versions of the page archived too, post the F2P beta.

    It was a Live Feature.

    Here is my link for that proof. It wasn't just beta, this is the link from July, well after Free For All launched.

    Mouseover text all still there, including a "Subject to change" one on the far right side.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20110713224604/http://www.champions-online.com:80/f2p_matrix
  • aschershadowaschershadow Posts: 39 Arc User
    With these pricing changes, LTSers can still basically get free characters every month Pre-100 character slots. 1 Slot for 100 Zen, or 5 for 400 Zen. LTS slots are all Gold to my knowledge, so surely you can spend a bit of your Stipend if you desperately want a new Character, and now you don't even have to grind a character to level 40 to get another one.
  • iamruneiamrune Posts: 965 Arc User
    With these pricing changes, LTSers can still basically get free characters every month Pre-100 character slots. 1 Slot for 100 Zen, or 5 for 400 Zen. LTS slots are all Gold to my knowledge, so surely you can spend a bit of your Stipend if you desperately want a new Character, and now you don't even have to grind a character to level 40 to get another one.

    Remember the stipend will be going away.
  • leuchadegoutiereleuchadegoutiere Posts: 136 Arc User
    Ho, come on ^^ You lie every single day of you life, introspect yourself a bit. I don't think anybody is legit arguing someone is lying about something.
    @Leucha - Cascade, Praise, Gluh, Sanglots, Chernozem, Saadhaka, Ralsershei, La Lice, Cardinale and so on
  • vonqballvonqball Posts: 923 Arc User
    LTSers paid a premium for certain features. Yes, we can survive without them. But we paid for them in advance.. with money.
  • yinepuhotepgamesyinepuhotepgames Posts: 49 Arc User
    cryneting wrote: »
    If the extra slots are a "bug" why is it that Cryptic advertised them as a feature of having a Gold account when Free to Play was introduced in 2011?

    Do please go to https://web.archive.org/web/20110207211957/www.champions-online.com/f2p_matrix for verification of this fact.

    Maybe you missed out the big BETA next do it, get your facts right, before you throw your salt at the screen, A BUG, is a bug, Beta is where it's in the stage of change, it got left in, forgotten about and was only addressed today.

    Is this game YOURS?, no..I didn't think so.

    Maybe you missed the fact that the feature matrix included the free slots far AFTER Beta. But, of course, actually looking it up for yourself is too much like work, and you'd much rather troll people who are actually DOING the research. I picked an early link to demonstrate that the free slots were not a new thing that people imagined, but have been in the game since at least 2011. Other people have posted other links, and screenshots, that show it was not, as you claim, merely a beta feature. Do go troll somewhere else.
    --

    Coffee, chocolate, bacon, and phasers. What more do I need?
  • iamruneiamrune Posts: 965 Arc User
    Lots of things will always be advertised in a game but not fully acknowledged to be a feature in my eyes. If a game developer says it's a bug, it's a bug. Simple as that for me.​​

    They lied to us, mate. you can be okay with it if you like, but we don't have to be.

    Honestly, if they just would "Mea Culpa" here and admit they done screwwed up and thought they could sneak it past us, but admit they were wrong, but they had to do something about it, I'd be okay with that, personally. But they have to admit fault and get past it.

    I suspect for legal reasons they cannot admit fault though, which of course, is bullshit.
  • aschershadowaschershadow Posts: 39 Arc User
    iamrune wrote: »
    Remember the stipend will be going away.

    Where are you getting this information, exactly?

    Will I still receive my monthly Stipend if I remain subbed/lifetime?

    Yes.

    That's from the original Premium Package announcement page. The Stipend only seems to be going away if your sub lapses. This does not affect LTS at all.

  • xcelsior41xcelsior41 Posts: 1,056 Arc User
    iamynaught wrote: »
    kaizerin wrote: »
    Addressed a bug where Lifetime and subscribed accounts continued to get free character slots for every character they got to 40. It was intended that players were able to receive 1 extra slot for the first character they got to 40, but not any more after. ​​

    A "bug" that has been around since launch, touted as a feature and was the main reason I bought a LTS. Had I known this was in the works, I would not have purchased my LTS.

    I understand that you need to make changes and potentially make more money, it just seems far too late in the game to make a change of this magnitude.

    I have been speculating for quite a while now that the game could be ported to consoles in a similar style to what NW and STO did. If this move is meant to bring CO more into line with that potentiality, then simply say that is what you're working on doing, explaining that in order to do so means CO needs this change. While it still sucks for those of us on PC that have been around for a long time, I think some of us at least could accept that. You simply need to explain WHY the changes are happening to possibly quiet the discord that has emerged.

    Obviously though, you don't have to explain anything, but it might not be a bad idea.

    Only issue with porting to console? It'll get drowned in the water of various other console games/DCUO on console and other superhero games on console. It'd be a HUGE waste of money/almost guaranteed failure
    Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.

    42 40s, LTSer.
  • kazecatkazecat Posts: 35 Arc User
    I've been wanting Sai's for a long time now. I'm hyped to check that out.
  • casualslackscasualslacks Posts: 17 Arc User
    pr0fp0tts wrote: »
    Like someone upthread, I'd also like to know what I, as a subscriber, get if I but a new 'slot'? Will it be like my other slots (Freeform or AT whilst I'm still subscribed, but has to be AT to play if my subscription lapses) or will it be a new kind of AT-only slot, forcing me to pay the higher price for a FF slot if I want any more FF characters?

    There is no way to buy Gold characters slots. Either your account is Gold and all your slots are Gold or your account is Silver and all of your slots are Silver. Buying a Freeform slot only unlocks the ability to create Freeform heroes that you can play without subscribing.
    World Class Chump
  • xcelsior41xcelsior41 Posts: 1,056 Arc User
    Everyone who is claiming this is a "violation of their Lifetime sub." First of all, ToS is subject to updates and I'm sure it says somewhere that it can change the subs at any time. Otherwise the new requirements put out by either Cryptic or PWI wouldn't be legal. In this case, they are.

    Second of all, we already knew that the Lifetimers wouldn't be getting character slots anymore. This isn't news. A bug is a bug and will impact gameplay negatively one way or another. One doesn't have to see the bugs for it to be there. The Dev Team knows it's there and it's affecting us somehow that it needs to be stopped.

    A lot of people will be salty about these changes; I personally really appreciate the price adjustments on character slots. Someone will always find a reason to nitpick and hinder any actual good in a big update.​​

    Well yeah it does say that in the ToS, but, people voicing a different opinion than yours is just that: People voicing a different opinion. You all seem to forget this, I seriously have no idea how or why.
    Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.

    42 40s, LTSer.
  • xcelsior41xcelsior41 Posts: 1,056 Arc User
    spinnytop wrote: »
    jaazaniah1 wrote: »
    Interesting that monthly subscriptions still seem to be a thing.

    Yeah, maybe they abandoned the Premium pack entirely and are just gonna keep subs, we did it guys \o/

    Wait. Weren't you against them keeping subs?
    Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.

    42 40s, LTSer.
  • jaazaniah1jaazaniah1 Posts: 5,425 Arc User
    From https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/champions-online/news/detail/10916073-introducing-the-premium-pack! "We’re making a change to how subscriptions work in Champions Online. The Lifetime Subscription will still be available and unchanged,"
    Sounds like stipend is staying?
    iamrune wrote: »
    With these pricing changes, LTSers can still basically get free characters every month Pre-100 character slots. 1 Slot for 100 Zen, or 5 for 400 Zen. LTS slots are all Gold to my knowledge, so surely you can spend a bit of your Stipend if you desperately want a new Character, and now you don't even have to grind a character to level 40 to get another one.

    Remember the stipend will be going away.

    JwLmWoa.png
    Perseus, Captain Arcane, Tectonic Knight, Pankration, Siberiad, Sekhmet, Black Seraph, Clockwork
    Project Attalus: Saving the world so you don't have to!
  • sapphiechusapphiechu Posts: 259 Arc User
    Okay, I've been doing some digging, and while the wayback machine grab is really old (heck, it mentions Atari Tokens, for goodness sake!), the 'Subject to Change' pop up does specify the Free-to-Play portion of the game.

    However, The Terms of Service state in section 24.4 (Fees) the following:
    • We may, from time to time, modify, amend, or supplement our fees, billing methods and terms applicable to Zen or to any purchases, and post those changes in these Terms, in separate Terms of Sale or in other terms or agreements posted on the Website or Service or otherwise provided to you by us. Such modifications, amendments, supplements or Terms of Sale shall be effective immediately upon posting on the Website or Service and shall be incorporated by reference into these Terms. If any change is unacceptable to you, you may terminate your account at any time.
    This would suggest that while we are pretty annoyed, some even mad, about the change, it is also something that may well fall into this section of the ToS.
    3856039c53d222b47efa23bc56b3c976ccefd059.jpg
  • yinepuhotepgamesyinepuhotepgames Posts: 49 Arc User
    Here's my take on it: If they had come out and said something like "Look guys, all your free alts are straining our resources, and we're not going to buy more servers just to store them, so we're canceling that feature", I, like many other people, would grumble, shrug, and move on.

    But when they claim that a feature they advertised as a perk of having a gold account is a "bug" and describe removing that feature as removing a "bug", that is blatant newspeak, and THAT is what is causing my anger.
    --

    Coffee, chocolate, bacon, and phasers. What more do I need?
  • sapphiechusapphiechu Posts: 259 Arc User
    Yeah, maybe they abandoned the Premium pack entirely and are just gonna keep subs, we did it guys \o/

    Wait. Weren't you against them keeping subs?

    I think Spinny is being sarcastic…

    *High-5s Spinny!*
    3856039c53d222b47efa23bc56b3c976ccefd059.jpg
  • sistersiliconsistersilicon Posts: 1,687 Arc User
    This, I would get:

    “We’ve decided to change how character slots are allocated to Lifetime and grandfathered Gold subscribers. Now, you’ll only get a free slot for your first level 40 character, not every level 40. In exchange, as part of an overall price cut to character slots, we’ve lowered the price of a single character slot to 100Z.”

    That bargain appears to be baked into these changes, and as others have said, they’re covered in the Terms of Service.

    So why attribute the “one new slot for your first 40” change to a “bug”, especially when proof that it was always a feature has been so easy to track down? I’m not sure what Management gains by being disingenuous about this, unless it’s yet another case of Management not understanding their own product, which keeps happening to CO more often as time passes. After having to postpone the ill-advised subscription changes already, the last thing PWE/Cryptic’s executives should be doing is eroding this community’s trust even further.
    Choose your enemies carefully, because they will define you / Make them interesting, because in some ways they will mind you
    They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
  • xcelsior41xcelsior41 Posts: 1,056 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    jaazaniah1 wrote: »
    https://web.archive.org/web/20110207211957/www.champions-online.com/f2p_matrix

    Umm, you did notice that there are a variety of things on that page that are different now, right? E.g. Adventure Packs are now free for everyone. Should we go back to making silvers pay for them since it is on this archived page? The resource cap for silvers is now 500; should it be rolled back to 250 since that is what is on this page?

    And? The game changes, that feature didn't. It stayed and was promoted ergo it wasn't intended to change and be classified as a bug. Sure it can be repurposed I believe through ToS, but that's not the issue here. It's lying and back-peddling, which they did. No matter the way you can try and dodge it, a lie is a lie
    Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.

    42 40s, LTSer.
  • jojenmaihemjojenmaihem Posts: 161 Arc User
    iamrune wrote: »
    Remember the stipend will be going away.

    So now they robbed me another feature? Welp... nice money wasted.
  • gerberatetragerberatetra Posts: 821 Arc User
    jaazaniah1 wrote: »
    https://web.archive.org/web/20110207211957/www.champions-online.com/f2p_matrix

    Umm, you did notice that there are a variety of things on that page that are different now, right? E.g. Adventure Packs are now free for everyone. Should we go back to making silvers pay for them since it is on this archived page? The resource cap for silvers is now 500; should it be rolled back to 250 since that is what is on this page?

    Oh, that's cute.

    You know that's not what's being argued here, don't be a tool



    Here we are now going to the West Side
    Weapons in hand as we go for a ride
    Some may come and some may stay
    Watching out for a sunny day
    Where there's love and darkness and my sidearm


    In game as @forgemccain
  • gerberatetragerberatetra Posts: 821 Arc User
    vonqball wrote: »
    spinnytop wrote: »
    All right, where's all the dumb people talking about "corporate scumbaggery". You can all form a line and you'll each get a turn to talk about how dumb you are o3o

    So.... I'm in the line... tell me how dumb I am now.

    Next!


    Here we are now going to the West Side
    Weapons in hand as we go for a ride
    Some may come and some may stay
    Watching out for a sunny day
    Where there's love and darkness and my sidearm


    In game as @forgemccain
  • yinepuhotepgamesyinepuhotepgames Posts: 49 Arc User
    Ho, come on ^^ You lie every single day of you life, introspect yourself a bit. I don't think anybody is legit arguing someone is lying about something.

    That's where you're wrong. People ARE legitimately arguing that Cryptic is lying, and lying on a Newspeak level.
    --

    Coffee, chocolate, bacon, and phasers. What more do I need?
  • sapphiechusapphiechu Posts: 259 Arc User
    But when they claim that a feature they advertised as a perk of having a gold account is a "bug" and describe removing that feature as removing a "bug", that is blatant newspeak, and THAT is what is causing my anger.

    Yeah, that part is pretty much the only thing that has me annoyed. Not mad, just annoyed. However, would I be correct in thinking that there isn't an original developer left in the CO team? It's entirely possible that this was considered a bug by the newer team members, and not seen as a feature by them.

    I do hope this doesn't escalate out of control and we see an exodus of players, because I love this game, and love my characters, and I would not want to see this result in PWI turning around and telling Cryptic to shut it down for good as it's apparent to them that we'll never be happy, and why pay to maintain the smallest server they have when they can use the developers on other projects.

    Of course, I'm certain there are some doom-&-gloom people on here that will be all "I told you so!", but honestly, I think they just like stirring the excrement and peeing in other people's sandbox.
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  • goblinman32goblinman32 Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    I recently did inventory on a bunch of my characters and discovered a whole bunch of them had Ren Cen teleporter devices on them. I didn't buy them - apparently we used to get them for free out of the level-up crates. Most of them weren't even bound, because I didn't realize at the time how useful they are. Nowadays, we just get a temporary version that eventually expires, while the normal version of the device costs $6.

    My point is, this isn't the first time they've sneakily removed something we used to get for free so that they can charge us for it. Pretty damn ridiculous how many people are defending them just because they lowered the prices on a few things at the same time. Also ridiculous that you're buying the "it's a bug" line, when it was an advertised feature (read those links - they clearly say each 40, not just the first one).

    Just removing the feature would be one thing. Lying about it, too, is scummy as ****.
  • xcelsior41xcelsior41 Posts: 1,056 Arc User
    cryneting wrote: »
    If the extra slots are a "bug" why is it that Cryptic advertised them as a feature of having a Gold account when Free to Play was introduced in 2011?

    Do please go to https://web.archive.org/web/20110207211957/www.champions-online.com/f2p_matrix for verification of this fact.

    Maybe you missed out the big BETA next do it, get your facts right, before you throw your salt at the screen, A BUG, is a bug, Beta is where it's in the stage of change, it got left in, forgotten about and was only addressed today.

    Is this game YOURS?, no..I didn't think so.

    Wait a sec...wasn't that promoted POST LIVE? No, he has his facts right :)
    Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.

    42 40s, LTSer.
  • yinepuhotepgamesyinepuhotepgames Posts: 49 Arc User
    sapphiechu wrote: »
    But when they claim that a feature they advertised as a perk of having a gold account is a "bug" and describe removing that feature as removing a "bug", that is blatant newspeak, and THAT is what is causing my anger.

    Yeah, that part is pretty much the only thing that has me annoyed. Not mad, just annoyed. However, would I be correct in thinking that there isn't an original developer left in the CO team? It's entirely possible that this was considered a bug by the newer team members, and not seen as a feature by them.

    If that were the case, that would be a good demonstration of how much is lost when corporate culture does not encourage knowing the history of your own product. It took less than five minutes of research to find the links to the old feature matrix pages, which I got by seeing an interview with Cryptic's CEO at the time when he announced the implementation of free to play.

    If I could do it in less than five minutes, WITHOUT the resources that should be available internally, I would expect the people inside the company to have even more access to their own history.
    --

    Coffee, chocolate, bacon, and phasers. What more do I need?
  • jonesing4jonesing4 Posts: 800 Arc User
    Just removing the feature would be one thing. Lying about it, too, is scummy as ****.

    Yep. Continuing to trot out the line about what was "intended" (as in these patch notes) just makes them look petty, stupid, and tone-deaf.
  • iamruneiamrune Posts: 965 Arc User
    jaazaniah1 wrote: »
    From https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/champions-online/news/detail/10916073-introducing-the-premium-pack! "We’re making a change to how subscriptions work in Champions Online. The Lifetime Subscription will still be available and unchanged,"
    Sounds like stipend is staying?

    See, that one is my bad.

    Unlike our corporate overlords, however, I will say "Mea Culpa". I honestly misrecalled the announcement page and I really did think the stipend would be going away there.

    I was wrong, thank you for pointing it out.
  • rapierwhiprapierwhip Posts: 125 Arc User
    A system, in place since the original launch in '09, advertised as a feature for Gold subs at the free to play launch, and repeatedly celebrated here on the forums, is now being touted as a bug. Sorry, that horse won't run. I understand if there is a need to change an existing feature. These things happen in games that have been around for years. But do NOT flat out lie to your customers. Businesses have been finding out that lying to their customers is bad for business for a very long time. A little legal term of "false advertising" immediately pops to mind. And then, of course, there's the little thing of the Devs violating their own terms of service by encouraging players to exploit this "bug" by listing it as a feature of gold subs. And yes, it was listed as a FEATURE. Mousing over the question mark on the Silver/Gold account comparison matrix brings up this little blurb: "Gold: The number of character slots available to you by default. Lifetime subscribers receive an additional eight slots. You also receive an additional slot for each character that reaches level 40, and as a 200-day Veteran reward. You can purchase additional slots in the C-Store." Italics and bold added to mark the relevant portions. Now if you want to make a CHANGE to that, fine. SAY SO. Every subscription model game out there has a little legal blurb that states that conditions are subject to change. But if you are trying to say that this is and has always been a bug, then you are either lying now or you were lying then. Which is it?

    The Forumite formerly known as Galeforce.

    If you want my money, there is a fairly simple way to get it since I am fairly free with how I spend it. First, produce something I consider to be worth buying. Second, offer it up for sale. Don't lock it behind a gambling scam. If I want something, I am perfectly happy to pay for it. But I will not purchase a CHANCE to get it, When I pay money, I have a perfectly logical right to expect to get what I want.
  • johnystelar1johnystelar1 Posts: 67 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    Honestly we should be allowed to gain the freeslot up until the cap it was part of the deal

    They wrote and marked it, as a feature, so this 'they didn't know it was a bug until they fixed it' doesn't justify it, they shoudn't have said it was a feature then. and if they just said 'hey we're removing this feature for x or y reason' instead of saying it's a bug, I think that would have calmed the anger from people a lot.

    EDIT: plus there is no way they didn't know this was a bug or not when they literally advertised it as a feature.
    I mean hey I accidentally threw apples in here, but I'm gonna write it in as part of the deal and somehow I won't know that it was accidental even though I just wrote it into the deal, but i'll remove it, and then it'll be justified cuz it was accidental
  • roughbearmattachroughbearmattach Posts: 4,784 Arc User
    I don't think losing the "slot per 40 feature" is a big deal, for me.

    I still really dislike the "it was a bug" nonsense. It was always advertised as a feature of my LTS.

    Putting it this way takes away credibility from Cryptic and forces Kaizerin to lie in print here on the forums. That seems like a lousy thing to do to her.
    ___________________________________________________________

    Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
  • duke3eyeduke3eye Posts: 22 Arc User
    I am not going to join the current spit take conversation. However, while everyone is talking about the elephant in the room, may I ask about the little mouse in the corner?
    If subs go away (with the exception of current and LTS), who gets to gain access to the PTS? Will the premium pack allow this?
  • johnystelar1johnystelar1 Posts: 67 Arc User
    Okay so, someone pointed out LTSers and gold can still get slot with their stipend as they are cheaper now, so I should state, in case there was some confusion, that we're glad about all these changes, we just wish they didn't say it was a bug, honestly, im excited for this patch.
  • alriialrii Posts: 63 Arc User
    for anyone who still does not understand our anger:
    quote:
    rapierwhip wrote: »
    A system, in place since the original launch in '09, advertised as a feature for Gold subs at the free to play launch, and repeatedly celebrated here on the forums, is now being touted as a bug. Sorry, that horse won't run. I understand if there is a need to change an existing feature. These things happen in games that have been around for years. But do NOT flat out lie to your customers. Businesses have been finding out that lying to their customers is bad for business for a very long time. A little legal term of "false advertising" immediately pops to mind. And then, of course, there's the little thing of the Devs violating their own terms of service by encouraging players to exploit this "bug" by listing it as a feature of gold subs. And yes, it was listed as a FEATURE. Mousing over the question mark on the Silver/Gold account comparison matrix brings up this little blurb: "Gold: The number of character slots available to you by default. Lifetime subscribers receive an additional eight slots. You also receive an additional slot for each character that reaches level 40, and as a 200-day Veteran reward. You can purchase additional slots in the C-Store." Italics and bold added to mark the relevant portions. Now if you want to make a CHANGE to that, fine. SAY SO. Every subscription model game out there has a little legal blurb that states that conditions are subject to change. But if you are trying to say that this is and has always been a bug, then you are either lying now or you were lying then. Which is it?

    reiterating what i said earlier: whoever made you say that lie deserves an MK-finale uppercut >.<

    also also: treating it as an unintended feature / bug is basically telling us that we are all filthy cheaters that were abusing a bug and we should be grateful that we get to retain what we unlocked
    note: they aren't actually saying that and likely do not intend it as such but it does heavily imply that unfortunately

    we are not happy with the change, that's fine, most of us will be understanding of the need however (more so if you communicated that need, grr)

    trying to spin it as something that players were blatantly taking advantage of (intended that way or not) will just piss us off even more, when we've already been butting heads with each other ever since it was said that subscriptions will be coming to an end

    we are annoyed, uneasy and the lack of communication is just adding to our collective bitterness
  • magpieuk2014magpieuk2014 Posts: 1,268 Arc User
    Just so I understand, then: I have a Gold sub. As of today I get a freebie character slot which is Free-form, cause I'm Gold. I won't get any more slots for getting characters to 40.. . But I can use my Zen stipend to buy five more slots a month, and they'll be Free form for as long as I maintain my sub. OK if so.

    Any idea on retcon tokens, anyone? I'm more worried about that than I am the character slot thing. Even if they are one per character at 40 that would still be a meaningful bonus.
  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    The phrasing in this changelog is very dumb. When you make a change that is going to upset people, in the future it would be better to make sure people don't feel like their being lied to or cheated at the same time.

    Turning features into bugs has happened a few times the past few years in CO, and every time Cryptic gets called out on it. I would advice Cryptic to rethink this weird practice.
  • johnystelar1johnystelar1 Posts: 67 Arc User
    They always have some issue with the phrasing in news and changelogs, and they don't seem to proofread, hence the massive confusion when the premium pack was announced. It's bad :/
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