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Freeform slot cost?

jarfarujarfaru Posts: 84 Arc User
Any word if they dropping the cost of these slots with this sub. change? Seems like charging 50 bucks for them now with these changes is way over the top.
Post edited by jarfaru on
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Comments

  • vylmavylma Posts: 61 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    Especially if you can't use them to recover a locked Gold character. Anyway even if it worked to get one locked gold character back I probably wouldn't be willing to pay more than $25 for that, which is still a lot...
  • diggotdiggot Posts: 245 Arc User
    vylma wrote: »
    Especially if you can't use them to recover a locked Gold character. Anyway even if it worked to get one locked gold character back I probably wouldn't be willing to pay more than $25 for that, which is still a lot...

    You're actually willing to pay 25$ for a FF-hero ?.


  • vylmavylma Posts: 61 Arc User
    Yeah $25 is already too much, but that's better than $200 for a LTS...
  • jarfarujarfaru Posts: 84 Arc User
    This change only seems to benefit F2P players that have bought freeform slots already.
  • folv#5303 folv Posts: 86 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    jarfaru wrote: »
    This change only seems to benefit F2P players that have bought freeform slots already.

    And even then it still manages to affect them as well by way of restricting character unlocks behind a paywall due to the removal of the level 40 unlock feature. No matter what, you are spending more money than use to be required if you continue to play. There is no saving grace with this change.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,418 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    folv wrote: »
    And even then it still manages to affect them as well by way of restricting character unlocks behind a paywall due to the removal of the level 40 unlock feature.

    They never had access to that to begin with.
    jarfaru wrote: »
    Any word if they dropping the cost of these slots with this sub. change? Seems like charging 50 bucks for them now with these changes is way over the top.

    Haven't heard anything, don't expect to. This change means that FF slots have been a proven money-maker, so there's no reason to lower the price. I'll be happy if I'm wrong since I've long championed reducing the cost of FF slots, but so far nothing has ever indicated that it will.

    As for the price being too much, remember that you can use Questionite to reduce the cost. Also, I get the feeling people only really buy slots during a slot sale, when it's 25$
  • kjodellkjodell Posts: 77 Arc User
    If it were up to me I would drop FF slots to $30 or 2 for $50, and add a Silver to FF retrain token for $25.
    but as spinny said they are proven money-makers, so don't hold your breath
  • guyhumualguyhumual Posts: 2,250 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    They should sell for $10 a pop, costume sets should sell for $5, and all the archetypes should be free.
  • nayaflask#5866 nayaflask Posts: 17 Arc User
    guyhumual wrote: »
    They should sell for $10 a pop, costume sets should sell for $5, and all the archetypes should be free.

    As much as I would like all arche types to be free. They could just let us grind for them ingame...
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,418 Arc User
    As much as I would like all arche types to be free. They could just let us grind for them ingame...

    They do. Every single one of them.
  • soulforgersoulforger Posts: 1,649 Arc User
    Well, FF slots, one is for 3000 zen ($30) while 3 go for 6000 zen ($60). So, there is your answer.
  • tempestorm76tempestorm76 Posts: 89 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    You can see the price changes to character slots and Free Form here.

    It also says, "But that's not all! We're raising the cap on character slots! Don't feel like you've got enough heroes to patrol Millenium City? Starting today, you can have up to 100 Characters. Get out there and create a team of One Hundred Heroes!"

    So, raising the cap that many people already have many more characters than is a feature?

    Anyone know if this means that new character slot unlock for reaching level 40 has already been disabled?
  • soulforgersoulforger Posts: 1,649 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    You can see the price changes to character slots and Free Form here.

    It also says, "But that's not all! We're raising the cap on character slots! Don't feel like you've got enough heroes to patrol Millenium City? Starting today, you can have up to 100 Characters. Get out there and create a team of One Hundred Heroes!"

    So, raising the cap that many people already have many more characters than is a feature?

    Anyone know if this means that new character slot unlock for reaching level 40 has already been disabled?

    Read the entry about two or so below what you quoted...wait, that wasn't from the patch notes...

    Simply put, they did not fully disable the free character slot...just...limited it to 1 time only. So, situation is no where near ideal.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,418 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    So, raising the cap that many people already have many more characters than is a feature?

    There are many people who never had access to free character slots. Those people can now buy their way to 100 characters, where before they could not. Those who already have that many characters are unaffected by the cap raise.
  • tempestorm76tempestorm76 Posts: 89 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    The thing is though that there never was a cap. They can say there was one, but something that was never enforced or, to my knowledge (I could be wrong) known to the players simply didn't exist. It is now a new limitation that never existed being touted as a feature. It is disingenuous. Thus, people that have more than 100 characters are affected by the change since now they do not gain slots the way they used to.

    Not to mention that everyone had access to the additional character slots if they paid. They were not free, they were included with purchase, like nearly everything in the world that is touted as free. Was it a good deal? Sure, but it wasn't free.


    Edit: Question, could people really not buy additional character slots over this mythical cap before? I would be surprised if this is true since the system did not seem to impose a cap at all. Again, I may be wrong in my understanding of the situation regarding this supposed cap.
  • kenpojujitsu3kenpojujitsu3 Posts: 1,319 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    Question, could people really not buy additional character slots over this mythical cap before? I would be surprised if this is true since the system did not seem to impose a cap at all. Again, I may be wrong in my understanding of the situation regarding this supposed cap.

    There was a point (cap) at which you couldn't purchase any characters anymore. I know I hit that point at some point, but can't tell you what the exact number was because it was years ago that I noticed it. That said, it was inconsequential because leveling a character and getting a new slot had no cap. There are multiple players with over 200 documented characters. I've read the recent reports that this was never intended but two things about that:

    1) If it was never intended it was never disclosed on the forums in the 9 years I've been playing unless I missed it, and the unquestionable brouhaha it would have caused also went unnoticed by me.

    2) I had a chat with a dev years ago and they directly mentioned the free slot at 40 every time was the best feature of the game to them at that time. Not a bug, a feature. In 2018, it's a bug. Make of that what you will.

    ________________________________________________
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  • soulforgersoulforger Posts: 1,649 Arc User
    The thing is though that there never was a cap. They can say there was one, but something that was never enforced or, to my knowledge (I could be wrong) known to the players simply didn't exist. It is now a new limitation that never existed being touted as a feature. It is disingenuous. Thus, people that have more than 100 characters are affected by the change since now they do not gain slots the way they used to.

    Not to mention that everyone had access to the additional character slots if they paid. They were not free, they were included with purchase, like nearly everything in the world that is touted as free. Was it a good deal? Sure, but it wasn't free.


    Edit: Question, could people really not buy additional character slots over this mythical cap before? I would be surprised if this is true since the system did not seem to impose a cap at all. Again, I may be wrong in my understanding of the situation regarding this supposed cap.

    Actually, there was a cap. Just never really explained by anyone before. I had found out about it when I put in a support ticket because I was no longer able to buy more character slots, the response was because I hit the character slot limit. But, the free character slots given through LTS allowed me to go over the cap. This is why people think (incorrectly), that there was no cap.

    I should have remembered the ticket earlier...
  • jonesing4jonesing4 Posts: 786 Arc User
    People may think (incorrectly) that there was no cap on purchased slots. But people think (correctly) that they were promised and could receive unlimited slots for leveling characters to 40.
  • tempestorm76tempestorm76 Posts: 89 Arc User
    Thank you both for that bit of information.
  • darqaura2darqaura2 Posts: 931 Arc User
    soulforger wrote: »
    The thing is though that there never was a cap. They can say there was one, but something that was never enforced or, to my knowledge (I could be wrong) known to the players simply didn't exist. It is now a new limitation that never existed being touted as a feature. It is disingenuous. Thus, people that have more than 100 characters are affected by the change since now they do not gain slots the way they used to.

    Not to mention that everyone had access to the additional character slots if they paid. They were not free, they were included with purchase, like nearly everything in the world that is touted as free. Was it a good deal? Sure, but it wasn't free.


    Edit: Question, could people really not buy additional character slots over this mythical cap before? I would be surprised if this is true since the system did not seem to impose a cap at all. Again, I may be wrong in my understanding of the situation regarding this supposed cap.

    Actually, there was a cap. Just never really explained by anyone before. I had found out about it when I put in a support ticket because I was no longer able to buy more character slots, the response was because I hit the character slot limit. But, the free character slots given through LTS allowed me to go over the cap. This is why people think (incorrectly), that there was no cap.

    I should have remembered the ticket earlier...

    Regardless the ENTIRE situation should have been made clear and transparent for all YEARS ago, if it was known about YEARS ago.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,418 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    darqaura2 wrote: »
    Regardless the ENTIRE situation should have been made clear and transparent for all YEARS ago, if it was known about YEARS ago.

    The decision YEARS ago was to call a bug a feature. If you want to talk to the people responsible you'll have to get a time machine and go back YEARS ago and talk to them. It's their fault you're upset now. None of the people currently involved had anything to do with that, they're just the ones that have to deal with the consequences. So go ahead and type your caps and rage your rage, the current team will deal with it gracefully as they always have.
  • soulforgersoulforger Posts: 1,649 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    jonesing4 wrote: »
    People may think (incorrectly) that there was no cap on purchased slots. But people think (correctly) that they were promised and could receive unlimited slots for leveling characters to 40.

    That is incorrect thinking. Someone explained to me that is basically "an argument made from ignorance". In short, an argument that goes like this: "If A is not proven true, than B is true." I'd like to point out, the answer to my support ticket was not "you hit the limit on purchasable character slots.", but, rather "you hit the limit on character slots." That is a HUGE difference in language and meening. Plus, you were never promised UNLIMITED character slots. Just that you'd get a character slot for every 40. That in short, was poorly worded. Which means the following statement is true:
    darqaura2 wrote: »
    Regardless the ENTIRE situation should have been made clear and transparent for all YEARS ago, if it was known about YEARS ago.

    This is very much true. There needed to be transparency a long time ago.

    After all, I can use your "argument from ignorance" style arguement of "If A is not proven true, than B is true." with a "If A is not proven false, than A is true."

    With that, in the end, means, we are both spouting opinions on what they meant in my ticket. And thus, opinions on if there was a cap or not. You will find no promise on infinite character slots, only that you'd get a free character slot for every 40. But, since they never used the words "unlimited" and "infinite" (or anything similar), you cannot really say that is what they meant. But, at the same time, since they were never clear on there being a character slot limit to begin with, I cannot really say that is not what they meant. In short, neither of us can claim that our OPINIONS are fact in this case. And yes, this goes for everyone in this argument.
  • roughbearmattachroughbearmattach Posts: 4,784 Arc User
    spinnytop wrote: »
    The decision YEARS ago was to call a bug a feature. If you want to talk to the people responsible you'll have to get a time machine and go back YEARS ago and talk to them. It's their fault you're upset now. None of the people currently involved had anything to do with that, they're just the ones that have to deal with the consequences. So go ahead and type your caps and rage your rage, the current team will deal with it gracefully as they always have.

    It's disingenuous, Spinny. Even if it was a bug originally, getting a character slot with each new level 40 toon was marketed as a feature until very recently. I'm not enraged, but saying, out of the blue, that removing it is a bugfix is simply not honest. Messaging matters, and taking the same action (removing the slot per 40 function), but saying that this feature would be discontinued, would have been received with less emotion.
    ___________________________________________________________

    Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
  • jonesing4jonesing4 Posts: 786 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    soulforger wrote: »
    We are both spouting opinions on what they meant in my ticket.

    No, I'm spouting what was used by developers in promoting the game, and what objective experience (my own and that of others) with leveling characters has produced. There really isn't any opinion in that, sorry.
  • soulforgersoulforger Posts: 1,649 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    jonesing4 wrote: »
    soulforger wrote: »
    We are both spouting opinions on what they meant in my ticket.

    No, I'm spouting what was used by developers in promoting the game, and what objective experience (my own and that of others) with leveling characters has produced. There really isn't any opinion in that, sorry.

    Simply put, you ignored my post. Grats, you are trying really hard to pass off your opinion as fact. Cause, once again, they did not use the words "unlimited" or "infinite" or anything of the sort. It is your own fault if you thought that is what they meant though.
  • tempestorm76tempestorm76 Posts: 89 Arc User
    The loss of a new character slot for each 40 (and it is a loss as it is something that I once had and now I do not) is something I will miss. I enjoyed knowing that each time I hit 40 I would get a new slot to try something new.

    I will still try out new characters as I am a bit less than halfway to the new cap of 100 and buying additional slots isn't priced unreasonably. That said, I will still miss the unlocking at 40 as something I had grown accustomed to and not longer have access to.
  • themightyzeniththemightyzenith Posts: 4,567 Arc User
    soulforger wrote: »
    they did not use the words "unlimited" or "infinite" or anything of the sort.

    No, but they did use the words "You also receive an additional slot for each character that reaches level 40".


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  • xcelsior41xcelsior41 Posts: 1,051 Arc User
    soulforger wrote: »
    they did not use the words "unlimited" or "infinite" or anything of the sort.

    No, but they did use the words "You also receive an additional slot for each character that reaches level 40".


    3KnV4lz.png

    Ayup. That indeed is what was said. Now, changing is fine due to ToS, but it is not a bug, it was never a bug, it was always a feature. Don't lie/back-peddle and call it a bug then try to sneakily take the feature away under people's noses. Again, it's fine to take it away due to ToS, but communicating why besides making some BS up is(or rather, should be) just common sense.
    Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.

    42 40s, LTSer.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,418 Arc User
    The current sub page hasn't said that in a long time as far as I can tell. Seems they're just updating the service to match what it's supposed to have been already. Anyone looking at the sub page could have seen this coming.
  • soulforgersoulforger Posts: 1,649 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    soulforger wrote: »
    jonesing4 wrote: »
    soulforger wrote: »
    We are both spouting opinions on what they meant in my ticket.

    No, I'm spouting what was used by developers in promoting the game, and what objective experience (my own and that of others) with leveling characters has produced. There really isn't any opinion in that, sorry.

    Simply put, you ignored my post. Grats, you are trying really hard to pass off your opinion as fact.
    soulforger wrote: »
    they did not use the words "unlimited" or "infinite" or anything of the sort.

    No, but they did use the words "You also receive an additional slot for each character that reaches level 40".


    3KnV4lz.png

    Exactly, and hence why Is aid what they said was poorly worded. For, with the words "unlimited" or "infintie", to take that passage as to mean that is an "interpatation". IE: Formulating an opinion based on facts. In short, forming an argument out of ignorance. Cause, after all, the passage could have very well meant a free character slot up to the character cap. But, it is poorly worded. Hence, anything we actually say about it is nothing more than opinion. After all, if you pay attention to the last part, where it says you can buy character slots in the C-store. It does not say there is a cap there either. Thus, by your guy's logic, that should have meant, that people should have been able to buy infinite character slots. Yet, as we all know, that wasn't possible. This has been pointed out not only by myself, but several others, including Biff. Yet, despite the wording basically being the same as the part for the free characters slots (basically), you came to the opposite conclusion, that purchasable slots were limited. Never once did you stop to think, that the free character slots were not working as intended (neither did I to be honest). Instead, you formed an opinion that you think of as a fact. Hence the "argument from ignorance" part of my previous post.
    xcelsior41 wrote: »
    soulforger wrote: »
    they did not use the words "unlimited" or "infinite" or anything of the sort.

    No, but they did use the words "You also receive an additional slot for each character that reaches level 40".


    3KnV4lz.png

    Ayup. That indeed is what was said. Now, changing is fine due to ToS, but it is not a bug, it was never a bug, it was always a feature. Don't lie/back-peddle and call it a bug then try to sneakily take the feature away under people's noses. Again, it's fine to take it away due to ToS, but communicating why besides making some BS up is(or rather, should be) just common sense.


    This is the main point we should be focusing on really. Not whether or not we were intended to have infinite character slots. But, rather, the fact they lied that it was a bug.
  • soulforgersoulforger Posts: 1,649 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    [Hate these forums at times]
  • themightyzeniththemightyzenith Posts: 4,567 Arc User
    The phrasing is understandable enough to know that they meant "You also receive an additional slot for each character that reaches level 40". That's not terribly difficult to understand.
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  • soulforgersoulforger Posts: 1,649 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    The phrasing is understandable enough to know that they meant "You also receive an additional slot for each character that reaches level 40". That's not terribly difficult to understand.

    Not saying that. Saying that it doesn't say "You also receive an additional slot for each character that reaches level 40 to allow you to have infinite/unlimited characters." Which is what you guys are saying it says. Just like with "You can purchase additional character slots from the c-store." Going by your logic, that would indicate the allowance of infinite character purchases. When, that has never been the case. Stop being stubborn in thinking that phrase allows infinite character slots, or that your opinion is fact. Cause, again, that phrase could very easily have meant a free character slot up to the cap.

    And if you, for some reason, think I am saying they should get rid of free chracter slots, well, that is flat out incorrect. I am against the change to free character slots. But, what I am for is the character cap.

    I am not the one making the mistake of thinking along the lines of: "Since A cannot be proven to be true, than B is true." Since, in this case, "A cannot be proven false or true." Which is why I say that people are mistaking their thinking that infinite characters were promised as a fact, when, that is an opinion due to an interpatation of a poorly worded sentence.
  • themightyzeniththemightyzenith Posts: 4,567 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    soulforger wrote: »
    Not saying that. Saying that it doesn't say "You also receive an additional slot for each character that reaches level 40 to allow you to have infinite/unlimited characters." Which is what you guys are saying it says. Just like with "You can purchase additional character slots from the c-store." Going by your logic, that would indicate the allowance of infinite character purchases. When, that has never been the case. Stop being stubborn in thinking that phrase allows infinite character slots, or that your opinion is fact. Cause, again, that phrase could very easily have meant a free character slot up to the cap.

    And if you, for some reason, think I am saying they should get rid of free chracter slots, well, that is flat out incorrect. I am against the change to free character slots. But, what I am for is the character cap.

    I am not the one making the mistake of thinking along the lines of: "Since A cannot be proven to be true, than B is true." Since, in this case, "A cannot be proven false or true." Which is why I say that people are mistaking their thinking that infinite characters were promised as a fact, when, that is an opinion due to an interpatation of a poorly worded sentence.


    See my last post. It was a very understandable sentence and not badly worded.

    It has been retconned to be not true though.

    Post edited by themightyzenith on
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  • xcelsior41xcelsior41 Posts: 1,051 Arc User
    soulforger wrote: »
    The phrasing is understandable enough to know that they meant "You also receive an additional slot for each character that reaches level 40". That's not terribly difficult to understand.

    Not saying that. Saying that it doesn't say "You also receive an additional slot for each character that reaches level 40 to allow you to have infinite/unlimited characters." Which is what you guys are saying it says. Just like with "You can purchase additional character slots from the c-store." Going by your logic, that would indicate the allowance of infinite character purchases. When, that has never been the case. Stop being stubborn in thinking that phrase allows infinite character slots, or that your opinion is fact. Cause, again, that phrase could very easily have meant a free character slot up to the cap.

    And if you, for some reason, think I am saying they should get rid of free chracter slots, well, that is flat out incorrect. I am against the change to free character slots. But, what I am for is the character cap.

    I am not the one making the mistake of thinking along the lines of: "Since A cannot be proven to be true, than B is true." Since, in this case, "A cannot be proven false or true." Which is why I say that people are mistaking their thinking that infinite characters were promised as a fact, when, that is an opinion due to an interpatation of a poorly worded sentence.

    See the issue here is you assume player's responsible for specifically thinking of the cap/knowing the cap. It is not. That's why businesses usually have a legal department/department that specifically deals in the creation of contracts and ToS, which I am sure PWI has. They should have specified a cap, not us. So, the thinking of "Since A cannot be proven to be true, than B is true" is fine to have amongst the common population. It's not stubborn, it's actually on course with rational thinking amonst the consumer base. As far as character cap, I must say: What business is it of me or anyone else to try and limit how many characters someone has? I don't care if you don't play all 100+ always, I don't care if you only have 2 40s. If they paid, they deserve to play the way they want to. Not saying you specifically said otherwise, it's just my opinion on the matter as a whole.
    Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.

    42 40s, LTSer.
  • soulforgersoulforger Posts: 1,649 Arc User
    soulforger wrote: »
    Not saying that. Saying that it doesn't say "You also receive an additional slot for each character that reaches level 40 to allow you to have infinite/unlimited characters." Which is what you guys are saying it says. Just like with "You can purchase additional character slots from the c-store." Going by your logic, that would indicate the allowance of infinite character purchases. When, that has never been the case. Stop being stubborn in thinking that phrase allows infinite character slots, or that your opinion is fact. Cause, again, that phrase could very easily have meant a free character slot up to the cap.

    And if you, for some reason, think I am saying they should get rid of free chracter slots, well, that is flat out incorrect. I am against the change to free character slots. But, what I am for is the character cap.

    I am not the one making the mistake of thinking along the lines of: "Since A cannot be proven to be true, than B is true." Since, in this case, "A cannot be proven false or true." Which is why I say that people are mistaking their thinking that infinite characters were promised as a fact, when, that is an opinion due to an interpatation of a poorly worded sentence.


    See my last post. It was a very understandable sentence and not badly worded.

    It has been retconned to be not true though.

    At this point, I can only conclude that you have no desire to come to any conclusion of this petty argument. For you refuse to realize what I've been trying to say and focusing only on one thing without realizing what that one thing actually says. In short, stop putting words into a sentence that does not have those words, for the sentence does not say what you think it says, and you really need to sit down and read it several times before you realize it is not promising infinite character slots, but, you are to stubborn to realize that. I am done conversing with you, we will never see eye to eye.
    xcelsior41 wrote: »
    soulforger wrote: »
    The phrasing is understandable enough to know that they meant "You also receive an additional slot for each character that reaches level 40". That's not terribly difficult to understand.

    Not saying that. Saying that it doesn't say "You also receive an additional slot for each character that reaches level 40 to allow you to have infinite/unlimited characters." Which is what you guys are saying it says. Just like with "You can purchase additional character slots from the c-store." Going by your logic, that would indicate the allowance of infinite character purchases. When, that has never been the case. Stop being stubborn in thinking that phrase allows infinite character slots, or that your opinion is fact. Cause, again, that phrase could very easily have meant a free character slot up to the cap.

    And if you, for some reason, think I am saying they should get rid of free chracter slots, well, that is flat out incorrect. I am against the change to free character slots. But, what I am for is the character cap.

    I am not the one making the mistake of thinking along the lines of: "Since A cannot be proven to be true, than B is true." Since, in this case, "A cannot be proven false or true." Which is why I say that people are mistaking their thinking that infinite characters were promised as a fact, when, that is an opinion due to an interpatation of a poorly worded sentence.

    See the issue here is you assume player's responsible for specifically thinking of the cap/knowing the cap. It is not. That's why businesses usually have a legal department/department that specifically deals in the creation of contracts and ToS, which I am sure PWI has. They should have specified a cap, not us. So, the thinking of "Since A cannot be proven to be true, than B is true" is fine to have amongst the common population. It's not stubborn, it's actually on course with rational thinking amonst the consumer base. As far as character cap, I must say: What business is it of me or anyone else to try and limit how many characters someone has? I don't care if you don't play all 100+ always, I don't care if you only have 2 40s. If they paid, they deserve to play the way they want to. Not saying you specifically said otherwise, it's just my opinion on the matter as a whole.

    You do realize you just said what I've been saying (partially) this entire time right? At least, on the business's end. I've been in full agreement on that stuff, not sure how you guys have not realized that. Must be because you are using the logical fallacy that I've been talking about, you know, "Since A cannot be proven to be true, than B is true." And thus, you've been making assumptions of what I've been saying.

    Let me make a quick list of what I've been saying, break it down, nice and easy:
    1. The character slot cap was always a thing, but, never really communicated, which was a bad thing on Crytpic's part.
    2. The free character slots were not a bug and shouldn't be limited to once per account.
    3. If they are to cap the character slots, than the free character slots should unlock only up to that amount.
    4. The only promise that we were given on free character slots is that we'd get more. But, there is no mention of how many more, thus, logically speaking, any assumptions based on how that sentence alone would be an opinion due to the sentence's poor wording and the lack of info from Cryptic to begin with.
    5. It is a fools errand to use "Since A cannot be proven to be ture, than B is true." Because at the same time, one could argue "Since A cannot be proven to be false, than A is true."

    That was what I've been trying to say. In short, stop using "Since A cannot be proven to be ture, than B is true." and start using "Until A is proven true or false, I will not assume things or form an opinion and turn around and use my opinion as fact." I've already explained why the argument of "We get infinite character slots because the sentence says so." is actually incorrect.

    Need to learn to recognize when there is a lack of data and information, you cannot just create your own data and information, expect it to be true, than when someone (say, the company, with facts (that may or may not be made up) that shows you are not correct), comes along and slaps you in the face telling you it isn't correct complain that you are correct and they are wrong.

    Now, I'm going to PM you how I REALLY feel about this mess...
  • xcelsior41xcelsior41 Posts: 1,051 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    soulforger wrote: »
    soulforger wrote: »
    Not saying that. Saying that it doesn't say "You also receive an additional slot for each character that reaches level 40 to allow you to have infinite/unlimited characters." Which is what you guys are saying it says. Just like with "You can purchase additional character slots from the c-store." Going by your logic, that would indicate the allowance of infinite character purchases. When, that has never been the case. Stop being stubborn in thinking that phrase allows infinite character slots, or that your opinion is fact. Cause, again, that phrase could very easily have meant a free character slot up to the cap.

    And if you, for some reason, think I am saying they should get rid of free chracter slots, well, that is flat out incorrect. I am against the change to free character slots. But, what I am for is the character cap.

    I am not the one making the mistake of thinking along the lines of: "Since A cannot be proven to be true, than B is true." Since, in this case, "A cannot be proven false or true." Which is why I say that people are mistaking their thinking that infinite characters were promised as a fact, when, that is an opinion due to an interpatation of a poorly worded sentence.


    See my last post. It was a very understandable sentence and not badly worded.

    It has been retconned to be not true though.

    At this point, I can only conclude that you have no desire to come to any conclusion of this petty argument. For you refuse to realize what I've been trying to say and focusing only on one thing without realizing what that one thing actually says. In short, stop putting words into a sentence that does not have those words, for the sentence does not say what you think it says, and you really need to sit down and read it several times before you realize it is not promising infinite character slots, but, you are to stubborn to realize that. I am done conversing with you, we will never see eye to eye.
    xcelsior41 wrote: »
    soulforger wrote: »
    The phrasing is understandable enough to know that they meant "You also receive an additional slot for each character that reaches level 40". That's not terribly difficult to understand.

    Not saying that. Saying that it doesn't say "You also receive an additional slot for each character that reaches level 40 to allow you to have infinite/unlimited characters." Which is what you guys are saying it says. Just like with "You can purchase additional character slots from the c-store." Going by your logic, that would indicate the allowance of infinite character purchases. When, that has never been the case. Stop being stubborn in thinking that phrase allows infinite character slots, or that your opinion is fact. Cause, again, that phrase could very easily have meant a free character slot up to the cap.

    And if you, for some reason, think I am saying they should get rid of free chracter slots, well, that is flat out incorrect. I am against the change to free character slots. But, what I am for is the character cap.

    I am not the one making the mistake of thinking along the lines of: "Since A cannot be proven to be true, than B is true." Since, in this case, "A cannot be proven false or true." Which is why I say that people are mistaking their thinking that infinite characters were promised as a fact, when, that is an opinion due to an interpatation of a poorly worded sentence.

    See the issue here is you assume player's responsible for specifically thinking of the cap/knowing the cap. It is not. That's why businesses usually have a legal department/department that specifically deals in the creation of contracts and ToS, which I am sure PWI has. They should have specified a cap, not us. So, the thinking of "Since A cannot be proven to be true, than B is true" is fine to have amongst the common population. It's not stubborn, it's actually on course with rational thinking amonst the consumer base. As far as character cap, I must say: What business is it of me or anyone else to try and limit how many characters someone has? I don't care if you don't play all 100+ always, I don't care if you only have 2 40s. If they paid, they deserve to play the way they want to. Not saying you specifically said otherwise, it's just my opinion on the matter as a whole.

    You do realize you just said what I've been saying (partially) this entire time right? At least, on the business's end. I've been in full agreement on that stuff, not sure how you guys have not realized that. Must be because you are using the logical fallacy that I've been talking about, you know, "Since A cannot be proven to be true, than B is true." And thus, you've been making assumptions of what I've been saying.

    Let me make a quick list of what I've been saying, break it down, nice and easy:
    1. The character slot cap was always a thing, but, never really communicated, which was a bad thing on Crytpic's part.
    2. The free character slots were not a bug and shouldn't be limited to once per account.
    3. If they are to cap the character slots, than the free character slots should unlock only up to that amount.
    4. The only promise that we were given on free character slots is that we'd get more. But, there is no mention of how many more, thus, logically speaking, any assumptions based on how that sentence alone would be an opinion due to the sentence's poor wording and the lack of info from Cryptic to begin with.
    5. It is a fools errand to use "Since A cannot be proven to be ture, than B is true." Because at the same time, one could argue "Since A cannot be proven to be false, than A is true."

    That was what I've been trying to say. In short, stop using "Since A cannot be proven to be ture, than B is true." and start using "Until A is proven true or false, I will not assume things or form an opinion and turn around and use my opinion as fact." I've already explained why the argument of "We get infinite character slots because the sentence says so." is actually incorrect.

    Need to learn to recognize when there is a lack of data and information, you cannot just create your own data and information, expect it to be true, than when someone (say, the company, with facts (that may or may not be made up) that shows you are not correct), comes along and slaps you in the face telling you it isn't correct complain that you are correct and they are wrong.

    Now, I'm going to PM you how I REALLY feel about this mess...

    What data? You mean the links that stated this was a thing that you denied?
    Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.

    42 40s, LTSer.
  • soulforgersoulforger Posts: 1,649 Arc User
    xcelsior41 wrote: »
    soulforger wrote: »
    soulforger wrote: »
    Not saying that. Saying that it doesn't say "You also receive an additional slot for each character that reaches level 40 to allow you to have infinite/unlimited characters." Which is what you guys are saying it says. Just like with "You can purchase additional character slots from the c-store." Going by your logic, that would indicate the allowance of infinite character purchases. When, that has never been the case. Stop being stubborn in thinking that phrase allows infinite character slots, or that your opinion is fact. Cause, again, that phrase could very easily have meant a free character slot up to the cap.

    And if you, for some reason, think I am saying they should get rid of free chracter slots, well, that is flat out incorrect. I am against the change to free character slots. But, what I am for is the character cap.

    I am not the one making the mistake of thinking along the lines of: "Since A cannot be proven to be true, than B is true." Since, in this case, "A cannot be proven false or true." Which is why I say that people are mistaking their thinking that infinite characters were promised as a fact, when, that is an opinion due to an interpatation of a poorly worded sentence.


    See my last post. It was a very understandable sentence and not badly worded.

    It has been retconned to be not true though.

    At this point, I can only conclude that you have no desire to come to any conclusion of this petty argument. For you refuse to realize what I've been trying to say and focusing only on one thing without realizing what that one thing actually says. In short, stop putting words into a sentence that does not have those words, for the sentence does not say what you think it says, and you really need to sit down and read it several times before you realize it is not promising infinite character slots, but, you are to stubborn to realize that. I am done conversing with you, we will never see eye to eye.
    xcelsior41 wrote: »
    soulforger wrote: »
    The phrasing is understandable enough to know that they meant "You also receive an additional slot for each character that reaches level 40". That's not terribly difficult to understand.

    Not saying that. Saying that it doesn't say "You also receive an additional slot for each character that reaches level 40 to allow you to have infinite/unlimited characters." Which is what you guys are saying it says. Just like with "You can purchase additional character slots from the c-store." Going by your logic, that would indicate the allowance of infinite character purchases. When, that has never been the case. Stop being stubborn in thinking that phrase allows infinite character slots, or that your opinion is fact. Cause, again, that phrase could very easily have meant a free character slot up to the cap.

    And if you, for some reason, think I am saying they should get rid of free chracter slots, well, that is flat out incorrect. I am against the change to free character slots. But, what I am for is the character cap.

    I am not the one making the mistake of thinking along the lines of: "Since A cannot be proven to be true, than B is true." Since, in this case, "A cannot be proven false or true." Which is why I say that people are mistaking their thinking that infinite characters were promised as a fact, when, that is an opinion due to an interpatation of a poorly worded sentence.

    See the issue here is you assume player's responsible for specifically thinking of the cap/knowing the cap. It is not. That's why businesses usually have a legal department/department that specifically deals in the creation of contracts and ToS, which I am sure PWI has. They should have specified a cap, not us. So, the thinking of "Since A cannot be proven to be true, than B is true" is fine to have amongst the common population. It's not stubborn, it's actually on course with rational thinking amonst the consumer base. As far as character cap, I must say: What business is it of me or anyone else to try and limit how many characters someone has? I don't care if you don't play all 100+ always, I don't care if you only have 2 40s. If they paid, they deserve to play the way they want to. Not saying you specifically said otherwise, it's just my opinion on the matter as a whole.

    You do realize you just said what I've been saying (partially) this entire time right? At least, on the business's end. I've been in full agreement on that stuff, not sure how you guys have not realized that. Must be because you are using the logical fallacy that I've been talking about, you know, "Since A cannot be proven to be true, than B is true." And thus, you've been making assumptions of what I've been saying.

    Let me make a quick list of what I've been saying, break it down, nice and easy:
    1. The character slot cap was always a thing, but, never really communicated, which was a bad thing on Crytpic's part.
    2. The free character slots were not a bug and shouldn't be limited to once per account.
    3. If they are to cap the character slots, than the free character slots should unlock only up to that amount.
    4. The only promise that we were given on free character slots is that we'd get more. But, there is no mention of how many more, thus, logically speaking, any assumptions based on how that sentence alone would be an opinion due to the sentence's poor wording and the lack of info from Cryptic to begin with.
    5. It is a fools errand to use "Since A cannot be proven to be ture, than B is true." Because at the same time, one could argue "Since A cannot be proven to be false, than A is true."

    That was what I've been trying to say. In short, stop using "Since A cannot be proven to be ture, than B is true." and start using "Until A is proven true or false, I will not assume things or form an opinion and turn around and use my opinion as fact." I've already explained why the argument of "We get infinite character slots because the sentence says so." is actually incorrect.

    Need to learn to recognize when there is a lack of data and information, you cannot just create your own data and information, expect it to be true, than when someone (say, the company, with facts (that may or may not be made up) that shows you are not correct), comes along and slaps you in the face telling you it isn't correct complain that you are correct and they are wrong.

    Now, I'm going to PM you how I REALLY feel about this mess...

    What data? You mean the links that stated this was a thing that you denied?

    I did not deny the link or what it said, I denied your guy's interpatation. The sentence does not say, nor does the link say, that we'd have unlimited character slots. That is an assumption most/all of us made (myself included till I recalled my support ticket).
  • themightyzeniththemightyzenith Posts: 4,567 Arc User
    soulforger wrote: »
    At this point, I can only conclude that you have no desire to come to any conclusion of this petty argument. For you refuse to realize what I've been trying to say and focusing only on one thing without realizing what that one thing actually says. In short, stop putting words into a sentence that does not have those word.

    I'm not, it doesn't need extra words. The sentence is "You also receive an additional slot for each character that reaches level 40". It's quite clear and doesn't need any special philosophical or literary expertise to understand.


    img.
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  • soulforgersoulforger Posts: 1,649 Arc User
    soulforger wrote: »
    At this point, I can only conclude that you have no desire to come to any conclusion of this petty argument. For you refuse to realize what I've been trying to say and focusing only on one thing without realizing what that one thing actually says. In short, stop putting words into a sentence that does not have those word.

    I'm not, it doesn't need extra words. The sentence is "You also receive an additional slot for each character that reaches level 40". It's quite clear and doesn't need any special philosophical or literary expertise to understand.


    img.

    Already told you I am done with you. So, please, do not respond any further to me.
  • themightyzeniththemightyzenith Posts: 4,567 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    Maybe deal with what it does say rather than the million things it doesn't say.

    You don't need to repond to this btw. Public forums though, so feel free.
    zrdRBy8.png
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  • soulforgersoulforger Posts: 1,649 Arc User
    Maybe deal with what it does say rather than the million things it doesn't say.

    You don't need to repond to this btw. Public forums though, so feel free.

    Just because it is a public forum doesn't mean you can just refuse to allow a person the peace they ask for.
  • themightyzeniththemightyzenith Posts: 4,567 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    You can choose to not quote me and reply though and thus end the dialogue. Feel free.
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  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,418 Arc User
    You can choose to not quote me and reply though and thus end the dialogue. Feel free.

    No you hang up. No you hang up. No you hang up. Tee hee hee.
  • xcelsior41xcelsior41 Posts: 1,051 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    WOW these forums are trash with quoting.

    And I don't think I was excessively clear about my argument and shall proceed to break it down as you did for yourself for ease of understanding:

    As time went by, this was not addressed or acknowledged as not being a feature. Then, in the past few days it was labeled a bug, correct?

    That is fact. And can be found in earlier forum posts/threads.

    My argument, truly, was over the lying by the devs over the free character slot post-40, and people naturally being against the cap, which I too am against.

    Now that that's out of the way:
    On to analyzing what you've said:


    You state, "say, the company, with facts (that may or may not be made up) that shows you are not correct), comes along and slaps you in the face telling you it isn't correct complain that you are correct and they are wrong." Ignoring that paradox of a sentence, you seem to be stating that the company didn't lie or make up facts about the cap in light of these changes, which, in and of itself is a fine stance to have, albeit again I'm not agreeing with it. You then state, "Until A is proven true or false, I will not assume things or form an opinion and turn around and use my opinion as fact."

    But uhh... " 1. The character slot cap was always a thing.."(I do appreciate the list, it did make it easier to locate this, and, circa your own words, it's not misinterpretation of any kind :) ). Because of that start. I don't believe you work at Cryptic and can prove via coding that this is a fact, and as such, is an opinion, which...you tried to pass as fact.

    Disclaimer: I could not find or recall previously this ever being a statement made by Devs(not players). If such a statement can be found Before June 1st, 2018 when this change was initially proposed, I shall redact my analysis of your argument/quote.
    Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.

    42 40s, LTSer.
  • soulforgersoulforger Posts: 1,649 Arc User
    xcelsior41 wrote: »
    WOW these forums are trash with quoting.

    And I don't think I was excessively clear about my argument and shall proceed to break it down as you did for yourself for ease of understanding:

    As time went by, this was not addressed or acknowledged as not being a feature. Then, in the past few days it was labeled a bug, correct?

    That is fact. And can be found in earlier forum posts/threads.

    My argument, truly, was over the lying by the devs over the free character slot post-40, and people naturally being against the cap, which I too am against.

    Now that that's out of the way:
    On to analyzing what you've said:


    You state, "say, the company, with facts (that may or may not be made up) that shows you are not correct), comes along and slaps you in the face telling you it isn't correct complain that you are correct and they are wrong." Ignoring that paradox of a sentence, you seem to be stating that the company didn't lie or make up facts about the cap in light of these changes, which, in and of itself is a fine stance to have, albeit again I'm not agreeing with it. You then state, "Until A is proven true or false, I will not assume things or form an opinion and turn around and use my opinion as fact."

    But uhh... " 1. The character slot cap was always a thing.."(I do appreciate the list, it did make it easier to locate this, and, circa your own words, it's not misinterpretation of any kind :) ). Because of that start. I don't believe you work at Cryptic and can prove via coding that this is a fact, and as such, is an opinion, which...you tried to pass as fact.

    Correct on the part of them turning a feature that was/is known to be a feature suddenly becoming a bug (seriously, how did they come to that conclusion?).

    Yeah, I know I created a paradox...the sentence did not come out how I wanted it to. I'll admit that. But, to late to fix it now.

    Well, the character slot cap was a thing because of what the person that responded to my ticket told me. If they themselves were a dev or not (or were telling the truth), I do not know. But, regardless, since it did come from an employee of Cryptic, it is fact, and not my opinion. I just choose to believe the same way that everyone else did.

    But, yes, good job on breaking things down, though, at the end, you did mess up (you forgot that I was told about the cap by a Cryptic employee).

    But, that once again brings us to the point that we need more information. Such as, why were we never told about the cap in the first place from the get go? I'm not truly ready to come to any conclusion on how many character slots why should be allowed to have. Though, I am still glad they at least upped the cap to a number I did suggest (I suggest a cap of 100, though, I also suggested allowing free character slots up to the cap, and possibly a way to at least double the cap, a little bummed that they did not go with my other suggestion, that being, infinite character slots, but, a cap on the number of free character slots (like 100 to 200 free slots).
  • xcelsior41xcelsior41 Posts: 1,051 Arc User
    soulforger wrote: »
    xcelsior41 wrote: »
    WOW these forums are trash with quoting.

    And I don't think I was excessively clear about my argument and shall proceed to break it down as you did for yourself for ease of understanding:

    As time went by, this was not addressed or acknowledged as not being a feature. Then, in the past few days it was labeled a bug, correct?

    That is fact. And can be found in earlier forum posts/threads.

    My argument, truly, was over the lying by the devs over the free character slot post-40, and people naturally being against the cap, which I too am against.

    Now that that's out of the way:
    On to analyzing what you've said:


    You state, "say, the company, with facts (that may or may not be made up) that shows you are not correct), comes along and slaps you in the face telling you it isn't correct complain that you are correct and they are wrong." Ignoring that paradox of a sentence, you seem to be stating that the company didn't lie or make up facts about the cap in light of these changes, which, in and of itself is a fine stance to have, albeit again I'm not agreeing with it. You then state, "Until A is proven true or false, I will not assume things or form an opinion and turn around and use my opinion as fact."

    But uhh... " 1. The character slot cap was always a thing.."(I do appreciate the list, it did make it easier to locate this, and, circa your own words, it's not misinterpretation of any kind :) ). Because of that start. I don't believe you work at Cryptic and can prove via coding that this is a fact, and as such, is an opinion, which...you tried to pass as fact.

    Correct on the part of them turning a feature that was/is known to be a feature suddenly becoming a bug (seriously, how did they come to that conclusion?).

    Yeah, I know I created a paradox...the sentence did not come out how I wanted it to. I'll admit that. But, to late to fix it now.

    Well, the character slot cap was a thing because of what the person that responded to my ticket told me. If they themselves were a dev or not (or were telling the truth), I do not know. But, regardless, since it did come from an employee of Cryptic, it is fact, and not my opinion. I just choose to believe the same way that everyone else did.

    But, yes, good job on breaking things down, though, at the end, you did mess up (you forgot that I was told about the cap by a Cryptic employee).

    But, that once again brings us to the point that we need more information. Such as, why were we never told about the cap in the first place from the get go? I'm not truly ready to come to any conclusion on how many character slots why should be allowed to have. Though, I am still glad they at least upped the cap to a number I did suggest (I suggest a cap of 100, though, I also suggested allowing free character slots up to the cap, and possibly a way to at least double the cap, a little bummed that they did not go with my other suggestion, that being, infinite character slots, but, a cap on the number of free character slots (like 100 to 200 free slots).

    I agree, we do need quite a bit more info. And, sure 100 is nice but the principal reason I'm only against the cap is well, I think it could keep people in and making back-end purchases of other things. With the cap set, sure it's difficult to attain for some but others already have, as stated earlier either in this or another thread and well, once you're there that's it. It could potentially halt their purchasing of things because they could ration the cap as them beating the game really, and move on. Not to say that IS the mindset, but, I could understand if it were.
    Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.

    42 40s, LTSer.
  • themightyzeniththemightyzenith Posts: 4,567 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    spinnytop wrote: »
    No you hang up. No you hang up. No you hang up.

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  • soulforgersoulforger Posts: 1,649 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    "I agree, we do need quite a bit more info. And, sure 100 is nice but the principal reason I'm only against the cap is well, I think it could keep people in and making back-end purchases of other things. With the cap set, sure it's difficult to attain for some but others already have, as stated earlier either in this or another thread and well, once you're there that's it. It could potentially halt their purchasing of things because they could ration the cap as them beating the game really, and move on. Not to say that IS the mindset, but, I could understand if it were."

    Well, as some people have commented that people like me (100+ characters), could always delete a character they do not play (at all). And, that is true, if I deleted one of my 172 characters (out of my 182 slots), I'd get anew free slot (the change does not cause us to lose the slot, we get to keep it). Thus, we can make a new character and spend money on that character. For I am assuming what Biff and others are saying is that they were buying stuff to help level up, but, that is only an assumption. And frankly, I do not want to delete any of my characters, I like them all. I find it fun coming up with their backgrounds. Takes a while with so many characters though... So, I do understand that side of the field. There are so many options that could have been taken/should have been taken. Instead, this is what we get. And now, we got arguments over symatics about how to read a sentence.

    Ok, I just got a second update for CO today...what is the second update for? I doubt it is reversing the free character slot change...

    And thank you forums...for eating my post...and ruining my response...
  • xcelsior41xcelsior41 Posts: 1,051 Arc User
    soulforger wrote: »
    "I agree, we do need quite a bit more info. And, sure 100 is nice but the principal reason I'm only against the cap is well, I think it could keep people in and making back-end purchases of other things. With the cap set, sure it's difficult to attain for some but others already have, as stated earlier either in this or another thread and well, once you're there that's it. It could potentially halt their purchasing of things because they could ration the cap as them beating the game really, and move on. Not to say that IS the mindset, but, I could understand if it were."

    Well, as some people have commented that people like me (100+ characters), could always delete a character they do not play (at all). And, that is true, if I deleted one of my 172 characters (out of my 182 slots), I'd get anew free slot (the change does not cause us to lose the slot, we get to keep it). Thus, we can make a new character and spend money on that character. For I am assuming what Biff and others are saying is that they were buying stuff to help level up, but, that is only an assumption. And frankly, I do not want to delete any of my characters, I like them all. I find it fun coming up with their backgrounds. Takes a while with so many characters though... So, I do understand that side of the field. There are so many options that could have been taken/should have been taken. Instead, this is what we get. And now, we got arguments over symatics about how to read a sentence.

    Ok, I just got a second update for CO today...what is the second update for? I doubt it is reversing the free character slot change...

    And thank you forums...for eating my post...and ruining my response...

    Oh hey the quoting works again for me finally :p. And yeah I wouldn't delete any of mine, which I mean sure is a thing, but its a rather asinine suggestion for others who have stated it as an avenue.
    Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.

    42 40s, LTSer.
This discussion has been closed.