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Lower the Price of the Lifetime Pack
riverocean
Posts: 1,690 Arc User
I'll cut to the chase. The $299 price of the lifetime pack is much to expensive. Since this is now being treated as a DLC, let's take a look at DLC's for games like STO and Neverwinter. Right now STO is offering it's latest pack filled with new content and ships for $129. The lates DLC pack for Neverwinter is just $99.
So you can see why so many of us CO players are a little resistant to paying $299 ($200 w/current discount) for a pack that isn't really offering anything new for a nine-year old game. IMHO.. since the Lifetime sub is now becoming a DLC $99 is a much fairer price. Especially, when I compare what's being offered to other games in the Cryptic family.
So you can see why so many of us CO players are a little resistant to paying $299 ($200 w/current discount) for a pack that isn't really offering anything new for a nine-year old game. IMHO.. since the Lifetime sub is now becoming a DLC $99 is a much fairer price. Especially, when I compare what's being offered to other games in the Cryptic family.
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My super cool CC build and how to use it.
For some. Many consumers aren't going to calculate value that way. If CO is the only game, or if CO is the only game people want to play, then they will think LTS is a bargain compared to paying in another way.
But Champions Online isn't in a world lacking competition. Riverocean is right to place CO as a game competing with other games. A potential LTS-purchaser is going to look around and consider what else they might get for that $300.00. There are newer and shinier games with more active development out there.
If CO is going to bring in more revenue, the competition isn't CO LTS versus CO subscription. It's LTS versus anything else that consumers might want to spend money on.
Then they're doing it wrong.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
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Agree wholeheartedly with this. I mean, consumers don't look at this game(If they even know about it) as it being a steal for $300(the LTS). They look at it either one of two ways:
1.) Eh, standard LTS price. Maybe I'll get it assuming this game is any good
2.) Why pay $300 for ONE game, when I can take that same $300, and go out with friends AND get a few games along the way? Some of which, are even in the superhero genre(Spider-Man PS4 comes to mind).
It's not to say $300 won't sell, ever, but being delusional about it selling like hotcakes at that price comparative to what I just posted would be asinine. Dropping the price to $200, assuming accountants/management agree upon it, may well help overall sales of LTS.
42 40s, LTSer.
You can go out with friends + get a few games with $200 as well. In fact you can do that for free.
Not sure how going from $300 to $200 suddenly makes it sell like hotcakes. People who cannot afford to spend $300 on a frivolous entertainment purchase generally also cannot afford to spend $200 on a frivolous entertainment purchase.
If the argument was cut the price in half or more, I could see it going from "OK sales" to "hotcake sales" but that kind of price cut seems very risky so they are unlikely to do it.
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My apologies for the use of hotcakes there, was being a bit hyperbolic there. And while yeah you can go out with friends for free, odds are that's not going to be the case always, at least, in my case it's not
42 40s, LTSer.
People look at the game and spending money in general on it like this:
1. I played it and didn't really like it, not gonna spend money on it.
2. I played it and liked it, but I'm only gonna play the free stuff.
3. I played it and liked it, I'll spend a bit.
4. I played it and I think it's awesome, I'm gonna spend lots of money on it buying several things!
5. I played it and I think it's awesome, I'm gonna buy LTS!
6. I played it and I think it's awesome, I'm gonna buy LTS and a bunch of other stuff!
In regards to purchasing decisions, there are many more than 2 ways for people to look at the game, and much more to consider than LTS.
I don't know why there's the idea in this thread that "We gotta sell a hundred LTSs and we gotta sell them right now!". For those people not willing to spend 200 bucks, there are other less costly options already so it's not as if there are sales being missed out on. If someone thinks the price tag for LTS is too high, that's fine, there are other things with lower price tags for them to buy. There's no great hurry to have LTS flying off the shelves.
The 300 normal price tag, 200 sale tag, is actually the smartest way for them to go about it, and general marketing know-how shows that. Once you lower the price to 200, then people are going to be waiting for the sale that drops it even further. You won't necessarily even get more sales, but you will end up getting less money for the sales you do get, especially because in some cases those sales will now be replacing other potential sales.
At current prices, LTS is already a huge value. "You could buy 100 other games for that money" is irrelevant, because someone considering LTS has already decided they really like CO and things in the game have value to them and that they want to spend money on those things. They're not thinking "what other non-CO things do I want to buy" they're thinking "which CO things do I want to buy". Now they only have to decide how much money to spend and on what, and for that process they have many options.
So I guess my response to:
is: Then don't buy it, there's lots of other stuff to buy. I know you want LTS, but the price is more than fair, it's generous.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Especially within the family of games CO already owns. When I look at the value of what $299 would get me in CO, versus what it will get me in Neverwinter or STO— CO doesn't look like a bargain at $299 at all. Especially, when we look at gameplay value. It would be different if Champions hadn't changed the lifetime sub to a DLC. But they did. So I now will compare it other DLC's that PWI offers. And I'm quite sure I'm not the only player doing so.
We'll have to wait and see how this plays out. If CO starts getting regular content updates (even in the form of more paid DLC's) then that Lifetime pack might well indeed prove a bargain. But as the game currently stands, it just isn't.
People don't look at strict amounts and say "Well this other game gives X for Y so I'll go buy in that game!". Whatever you have to say about what those other games offer, there's a reason I've spent so much in CO, and nothing in those other games. Sure, I could have bough a whole lot of other games for the money I've spent on CO, and I had the option to do that. I didn't tho. People aren't just walking calculators, they make their decisions based on more than numbers.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
STO/NW is probably the closest model to CO though (their free experience is probably better due to FFs freeformyness)
But on topic, everyone is right here
While the proposed model its a deal in Cryptic/PW-dollars ($50 FF slots), it doesn't cut the mustard (or was it waffles here?) in the world of 20-50 buy to play games, or FTP with $10 character slots and microtransactions. Infinite char slots, was a huge 'value add' to the sub/LTS model.
People will evaluate the value of this game to the next best thing (and standard cost, not PW cost), slashing the price won't double the users, but high prices with low value will keep people away.
Example ESO is getting expansions and DLC shorts, after being around for a few years was getting a rather expensive grand total. People noticed this, and ESO got a reputation for being very costly. A few months later, all their packs are repackaged for value. Likely cause people could pop over to some other similar game cheaper.
Unfortunately those games have the advantage of adding another 20-50 DLCs, the game seems to be rather set. We're awkwardly stuck with "hey we don't want to be a sub game", and "strange version of buy to play, but have no expansion", plus 100-5000 users to transition to a new model.
[*] A new character they hope you buy some costume slots, keys and ships for of course! And players are content in a FTP world.
Wealthier people want to spend money too and LTS allows this without giving them an unfair gameplay advantage. The problem is with some cash shop prices and lack of support for certain other players.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
Depends on the goal of this new model going forward; the premium pack sounds nice for new players, yet if the new model takes away some of the features given to old players you may end up losing as many as you gain or more.
As far as LTS? I stand, still, by my earlier point regarding sales of LTS and agree still with the OP
42 40s, LTSer.
Your argument is precisely that demand for a Lifetime Subscription is virtually inelastic and there is no effective competition for a CO LTS. People are going to buy it if they want it no matter the price. A lower price will not increase purchases, only decrease revenue. It is astounding to me that CO is an exception to everything we know about economic decision-making, but you're the expert. Now that it's clear that this game is unlike any other consumer product out there, Cryptic and PWE better get right on it!
Given what a generous bargain it already is, it sounds like CO should actually charge, say, $500 for an LTS and make it clear there will never another sale, as sales only make people decide to delay purchasing something they would have bought anyway. Just think of all the money CO has thrown away over these markdowns!
There's all kinds of possibilities here. Maybe freeform slots should cost $80? Lockbox keys... how about $2.50 a pop? (Again, they'll need to make it clear that sales will be a thing of the past.) If you like the game enough, you'll buy it.
The game could certainly use the income. We'd all be better off, right?
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
I do that all the time, and I have a LTS. This isn't some 12-step program where if you buy LT you'll be commemorated in game. It's for EXACTLY what you described, actually. I will jump ship in september to play a few other games on console, and before then, I'm jumping ship early august to hang with friends before college starts up again. $300 is a lot to spend on ONE thing, no matter what it is. I mean, how is this hard to get?
42 40s, LTSer.
I'm a Gold monthly subscriber. I've subscribed for years without a pause in my sub and this is the only MMO I play. Like the poster above, your little hypothesis doesn't fit for me either.
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You realize that the 200-300 dollars isn't being used to buy Champions Online right? It's being used to buy a bunch of stuff in Champions Online, the majority of which you are free to go ahead and buy one by one if you can't afford to drop that much at once. You act as if a LTS is somehow required to play this game. You could go ahead and buy a single FF slot on sale for 25 bucks, or less if you farmed up some Questionite, then spend the rest of the money on other games, food, your rent, whatever you like, and still play Champions Online. You're not deciding between CO and other games, you're deciding how much you want to spend on CO - if that's not 200 dollars, then fine, spend however much you want, and then feel free to keep playing CO and those other games. The company doesn't need to bend over backwards to try to hard sell you on LTS, they give you lots of options, so if you only want to spend say $100, then you can just spend that amount.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
The bandwith needs are ridiculously low compared to more recent online games, it can run easily on outdated servers, no need to invest on top of the line hardware. There are still some developpement costs but they are extremely low if you compare with what was spent initially to get the game going and bring large chunks of new content in its early years. The developpement and maintenance costs are way below what most recent online games require however our player base is small. And that is why finding a good business model is complicated for a game like CO, not because CO costs billions to keep runing. And also because PWI's objective isn't just to cover their expenses, they also want to make noticeable profits.
The $200/300 LTS is valid as a mean to support the game (like letting your sub run indefinitely), and if anyone feels like spending that amount of money in 2018 in order to help the game I have no issues with that. But let's not be naive it is definitely not a bargain or a good deal. And it's not just the LTS, pretty much everything is overpriced for such an old game but it's not the point! It's almost irrelevant actually. It's about supporting the game, not about what you're really getting out of you the money you spend. It is a choice: am I willing to pay for more that I am objectively getting? It is entirely up to everyone to decide for themselves. And the answer to that question can only be subjective.
Obviously.
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No, there aren't. LTS is extremely generous. Someone once totaled up the purchase value of everything it gives you ( not including infinite character slots ) and it is insane. The FF slots alone already justify the price, and then you start adding everything else.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
This is so off the mark. I'm pretty sure that we (you, spinnytop and everyone talking on this thread) are among the biggest spenders and yet accusation of "wanting things for next to nothing" are flying. The best customers accusing each other of wanting to rip-off PWI, as if such a thing was even possible. This is ridiculous.
PWI doesn't need watch dogs to defend their profits against people who are already among their best contributors.
And to be honest I don't really have a problem with a $200/$300 LTS base price. Like I said, good deal or not isn't really the point when we're looking at the LTS, it's a support move. But I would fully support a significant discount for long time subscribers, or even better a grandfathering for those above 1000 days (even if I doubt it'll ever be a thing, it's not in PWI's DNA. They're hard in business not the defensless philantropists who let people snatch money out of their pockets that some seem to believe here).
Now speaking solely for myself, as someone who's spent more than $600 on this game I'm certainly not letting anyone say that I'm looking for freebees or abusing PWI's generosity when I'm talking about discounts and special deals for longtime customers.
When comparing LTS to cost in the zen store, you assume the zen store is some gold standard of economic value.
And that is a bit of a shaky foundation for any argument.
A more reasonable way to compare the cost would be like this.
A normal AAA game takes 4 years to make (at least) and costs about 50 or 60 (euros/dollars). CO took 2 years to make, and is running about 10 now. So only comparing that, an LTS costs (200/12)/(60/4)=111% of what another game costs. This of course ignores the fact that CO hasn't been in active development for 12 years. When counting the actual active development I doubt we can give CO more than 6 years.
What's with the ""? I doubt it's an exaggeration if someone says they can't just willy-nilly dump $300 on a game. There are a myriad of reason(I can't believe I truly have to say that but okay here goes): College, bills, rainy-day funds, etc...I fall under the first. Very lucky to have gotten mine when I did, otherwise, I'd be SOL on getting a LTS for ~2-3 more years, roughly. It's crazy to think, but college is pricey
Well that's all fine, really. But, I'm assuming that you're pretty established in order to be buying such upgrades. It's difficult to place oneself in another scenario, especially when they've probably not been in said scenario for awhile, if ever. But, to give you perspective; I was able luckily save enough to get myself a LTS 2 years ago right after the new year. I was lucky, as being on a college kid budget, such expenses are very near an impossibility what with books, tuition, etc...and the little left over usually is only really enough for the ability to eat out with friends every once in awhile (i.e fast food). I'm but one example, there are those far worse than I.
So yes, $300 is a big deal. Not to you, but this isn't really about one particular individual.
42 40s, LTSer.
And given what's going on with E3, the allure of that $60 for AAA-games is gonna shoot up quite a bit over a one-time $300
42 40s, LTSer.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
That said, a fair price needs to include the people who lose interest. That's the benefit of a subscription model: it actually means there's a correlation between what you pay and how much you like the game. However, that ship is largely sailed.
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None of which is to say that $300 is actually a reasonable amount to pay, it's not an unreasonable amount to spend if you actually play for an extended period but it's high as an up-front cost.
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To give another personal perspective, I used to do a lot of historical miniature gaming. To buy the lead for any army easily cost $300 (plus the time involved in painting, plus other gaming supplies). Then there was the cost of attending tournaments. So, the LTS (and CO in general) has actually led to a net decrease in what I spend on gaming each year.
Of course, this is true of any "big ticket" item. If you only plan one big road trip in your entire life, renting a car makes better sense than buying a car. If you do a lot of traveling by car it may make more sense to own one.
I suppose you're right
42 40s, LTSer.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
^ that sounds like a fabulous idea to me ( mainly because I suggested basically the same thing on page 1 of this thread o3o )
My super cool CC build and how to use it.