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Talisman, Witchcraft and The Circle of the Scarlet Moon
kaosarcanna
Posts: 124 Arc User
So questions regarding the sisters, their family, and the Circle of the Scarlet Moon as it pertains to the PNP.
1. What's the difference between DEMON and the Scarlet Moon? Do they use different types of magic or have differing organizational structures?
2. Do they have different territories? (Kind of wondering why DEMON is causing trouble in CO but not Circle of the Scarlet Moon.)
3. Are the parents of Talisman and Witchcraft still alive in the PNP?
1. What's the difference between DEMON and the Scarlet Moon? Do they use different types of magic or have differing organizational structures?
2. Do they have different territories? (Kind of wondering why DEMON is causing trouble in CO but not Circle of the Scarlet Moon.)
3. Are the parents of Talisman and Witchcraft still alive in the PNP?
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From what I've read, I would say DEMON is in many ways the supernatural analogue to VIPER. The public is aware of them thanks to some of the really big schemes they've been involved in. Many governments and law-enforcement agencies take them as a serious threat to world security, although no one outside the organization grasps how big an existential threat they really are. Like VIPER, most of DEMON's activities are carried out covertly -- their Demonhames are hidden or disguised, their members act normally when in social situations, their sacrificial rituals are discreet. But when they want something that requires overt force to achieve, DEMON has no qualms about breaking out the troops, in distinctive robes like good supervillainous minions, and firing blasting wands rather than high-tech guns. Their Morbanes are supervillain class, wielding flashy combat magics; and their Demonbound have other superpowers and often distinctive appearances. Aside from the organization's overall goals, individual Morbanes will sometimes engage in quite visible schemes designed to win them greater power, wealth, or status within DEMON.
The Circle of the Scarlet Moon are always under the radar. Most of the public have never even heard of them, aside from a few conspiracy theorists. Some governments and law-enforcement have an inkling that some sort of conspiracy is at work, but know very few details, and almost no identities of Circle members. A few superheroes and mystics who have come up against them have a better grasp of how vast and pervasive the Scarlet Moon really is, but can rarely get hold of legally actionable evidence, and almost never against its leaders. Very few Circle members wield enough raw power to match even a rookie superhero in straight combat; but they excel at using subtle magic to gain wealth and social influence, in ways that don't call suspicion to themselves. Anyone who becomes a problem to them will be dealt with first through their enormous non-combat influence: harassing lawsuits, hostile takeovers of their financial assets, criticism and accusations by Circle-controlled media, blackmail using secrets acquired through magic. Troublesome heroes may even face censure by government officials subverted by the Scarlet Moon. If all that isn't enough, the group's leaders have enough money and connections to hire whatever level of super-mercenary is needed to remove the problem, with no ties back to them.
Let me give you a couple of examples of how the differences in the two groups could play out. Take a property on a mystic site that either group wants to acquire. Both DEMON and the Scarlet Moon will first try to take it through normal channels, by illegal means if necessary. If all such efforts fail, DEMON is likely to send someone or something to blow it up with hellfire -- fast and efficient, but it won't be hard for someone to suspect connections to whoever buys the property subsequently. A member of the Circle of the Scarlet Moon may covertly cast a magic curse on the property, so a few days later it burns to the ground, with no evidence of arson. All that might be witnessed or recorded is someone standing across the street earlier in the week for a few minutes, making some odd gestures.
Or let's say either group wants to eliminate a particularly troublesome person. DEMON might send a supernatural assassin, which of course leaves a mystery behind, even if not a body. The Scarlet Moon is more likely to send frightening and disturbing dreams which over weeks or months drive the person insane, until he either kills himself or is committed to a mental institution.
If you have more questions, please fire away.
Members of the Scarlet Moon propitiate various supernatural entities, mostly mythological gods; but they don't worship them. Their rituals and sacrifices are a straight forward exchange for power from the gods. The Circle serve their own desires and goals, mostly related to gaining wealth and status in the material world; not the purposes of any god. Typically one of them will choose a god or group of related gods from a particular pantheon to propitiate, and thus practice whatever style of magic is associated with them. They tend to avoid pacting with demons from the Netherworld because they often demand too high a price, and have nothing to do with the unpredictable dangerous entities from the Qliphoth.
Do you have to be born in the Circle like Talisman and Witchcraft or will they accept anybody with sufficient magical talent and ambition?
I'm toying with the idea of a Circle of the Scarlet Moon character, and from your description it seems like one could do heroic things out of self interest-- the Circle would have no interest in the Kings of Edom coming to Earth or Therakiel overthrowing Heaven and Hell, for example-- and still be a member in good standing.
I imagine the Circle would probably NOT want them to advertise their connection to them though ...
Hmm... maybe your end goal as a hero is to covertly take out Witchcraft?
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However, you should keep in mind that the Circle of the Scarlet Moon is a vehicle for its members to wring every last drop of self-benefit they can out of the world, by any means. They steal. They kill. They torture. They indulge in all manner of hedonistic pastimes. They frequently scheme to destroy each other to advance their positions and power within the group. And they thrive by doing all this covertly and discretely. Being "heroic" even out of self-interest -- especially in a public way that exposes the Scarlet Moon to a greater risk of discovery -- is something very few of them are likely to sympathize with or countenance.
It's much more reasonable to assume a scion of the Circle who wants to play hero, like Witchcraft, would be treated by the rest of the Scarlet Moon as a pariah and an enemy. If you want your character to be a "member in good standing" of a supernatural faction, there are others that would fit more comfortably, such as the Trismegistus Council or the Vandaleur clan.
Then again, if you want to say that the Circle is fine with your character acting the hero, there are 'way more improbable PCs running around CO.
I suppose I could have them be an independent operator with no ties to any magical organization ... or maybe have them at odds with the Scarlet Moon. (The idea sprang, in part, from DEMON's hunt for the Tarot Cards in Millennium City. They actually go around ASKING the citizens if they've seen of the cards rather than just physically intimidating them.) If the Scarlet Moon isn't the best fit, are there any magical organizations that operate like Mind, Inc. .... seemingly a legitimate force for good while actually being sinister?
Covertly gathering economic, political, and social power is the main goal of the Circle of the Scarlet Moon, so that kind of PR-based approach could be sold to them. Particularly if your character's "heroics" were directed at enemies of the Circle, either evil occult rivals like DEMON or the Sylvestri family of black magicians, or groups like VIPER or ARGENT who also wield hidden malevolent influence. In fact, the factionalism within the Scarlet Moon that I mentioned earlier can also play into such a campaign. The "High Coven," the group's governing council, seems tolerant of members' efforts to undermine each other, as long as that doesn't threaten the integrity of the group as a whole or expose the full extent of their operations. So your character could have the support of one of the group's leaders in going after the assets of another; as long as he/she can avoid any whiff of public association with that patron.
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The bio that I read of her suggested that's she's gone rogue herself, learning from other sorcerers including DEMON to further her own power.
The above is derived mainly from Talisman's write-up in Champions Villains Vol. 3, and that of the Circle of the Scarlet Moon in Vol. 2.
Meaning that creates the opportunity for built in nemeses. :
So he could probably get away with defeating Talisman without endgangering his standing so long as he didn't do any permanent damage or otherwise discourage Talisman from returning back to the fold.
Thanks again for the help.
Of course, one difference is that the Kindred had a strict law against "diablerie", the practice of draining the life-force from another vampire to strengthen one's own abilities - sure, everyone knew it was done, but if the elders found a diablerist, it was suntan time if they were lucky. With the Circle, though, one gets the impression that if a sorceror can manage to steal his rival's power and kill said rival in the process, the Circle leaders would welcome this as strengthening the cult overall in an almost Darwinian manner.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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When the Scarlet Moon was founded late in the 18th Century, neo-druidism was fashionable among the aristocracy of France and Britain, so some of its titles and concepts found their way into this group. The basic grouping of cultists is the coven. Members of a coven can hold two ranks: ovates if they have seniority and magical talent, or aspirants if they lack either quality. Each coven's leader carries the title of druid. All the covens in a region are part of a lodge, each lodge answering to an archdruid. Thirteen of the most powerful or influential archdruids form the High Coven, the Circle's governing body.
All members of the Scarlet Moon take a "craft name" derived from names or words in Celtic, Germanic, or other archaic European languages. They use these names when dealing with members outside their immediate group or of lower rank, to shield their identities should any coven be discovered or infiltrated. Circle members include billionaires, politicians of all stripes, and prominent media figures. Although its membership isn't numerous, the cult wields tremendous covert influence across Europe, North America, and the Third World.
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However, as written there really is no good side to DEMON. The Morbanes who lead individual Demonhames carefully screen the members of the false cults DEMON use as a recruiting tool, for both talent for magic and capacity for evil. Those the Morbane thinks have potential are put through grueling and gruesome tests to determine if they have the "right stuff" to join the true DEMON as a Brother, the lowest rank. A Brother who increases in knowledge, power, and corruption may rise through the ranks, to become an Initiate, and finally a Morbane himself. Each rise in rank involves trials pushing the member farther down the path of depravity.
A DEMON member would have to go through a truly profound, life-changing experience to turn him from evil, let alone toward heroism; and that would probably only work for the lower ranks. By the time he becomes a Morbane he would almost certainly have sunk too deep in sin to be redeemed. Unless, of course, you decide your character hasn't.
If you think you want to play and can justify a PC like that, we can explore their possible abilities; but DEMON: Servants Of Darkness would offer far more info than I could provide here. https://www.herogames.com/forums/store/product/220-demon-servants-of-darkness-pdf/
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Perhaps you could build on that example to push a character farther toward the side of the angels?
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I'm reminded of a passage from DEMON: Servants Of Darkness p. 154, describing how DEMON interacts with various mystic power players: "A Morbane's fascination with Takofanes begins thusly: he catches a glimpse of the devastation the lich wrought in 1987. He purchases a recording of the news footage of that incident and studies it, amazed that a single practitioner of the arcane arts could cause so much death -- and raise so many minions from death. The Morbane resolves to seek out Takofanes. He disappears. When he reappears, he's undead and attacking a Demonhame in some seemingly random city, repeating over and over again, "I shall come for you all soon enough."
But it doesn't matter how many times this happens. Somewhere, a Morbane is pushing a cassette into the VCR. He's watching the Undying King's rebirth and wondering..."
I'm thinking of a survivor(s) from a Demonhame subjected to just such an attack, perhaps by the 'Hame's own Morbane. Seeing their leader and teacher, whom they considered their oracle from the dark gods, reduced to being the puppet of an even more terrible evil... Remember when I said it would take a profound experience to change a DEMON member's evil ways? That just might do it.
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I'm reminded of the examples of two official Champions NPC mystics, Dr. Teneber and Josiah Brimstone (both detailed in Champions Villains Vol. 3). Both of them have good intentions and have aided heroic mystics in the fight against supernatural evil in the past; but both are tainted by the practice of dark magic, and they're more unpredictable and ruthless than most heroes, their actions arguably crossing into actual evil. True heroes are wary of accepting their help and rarely associate with them, other than keeping an eye on them lest they become a genuine menace.
That might be a comfortable grey area in which to set your character.