test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Quick and dirty band aid to make Regen and PFF viable while a real solution is created
mafa1in
Posts: 35 Arc User
Just make them slottable in the offensive passive slot. Instant +25% damage and all of the defensive passive hybrids who don't want to tank get a nice boost (which is IMO needed). It still won't help them become cosmic main tank powers, but it would make characters who have them become able to become somewhat capable as DPS characters at cosmics instead.
Edit: After some discussion in this thread it looks like I shouldn't be so quick to judge Regen. Will need to test it with a mature build. My point still stands for PFF though.
Edit: After some discussion in this thread it looks like I shouldn't be so quick to judge Regen. Will need to test it with a mature build. My point still stands for PFF though.
Post edited by mafa1in on
0
Comments
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
But would you say there's ever any reason except theme to take it over Defiance or Invuln?
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Ok, maybe I've underestimated Regen.
Well, for starters, what are your SuperStats and defense? How much self-healing do you have? What're your ADs/AOs? Your build means a lot to how well it performs in different situations.
I'm at 36, almost 37, not even great gear-wise and I can slog through Vibora Bay's instances on Elite without ever really needing to pop Resurgence or Unbreakable, both being my "oh sh!t" buttons for when I know big damage is coming or I take big damage. Of course i'm probably an unfair comparison, since my Regen tank is built with defensive powers and self-healing up the wazoo, DE-less (it's not bad, I just don't like it that much), and with minor support ability (mostly a group rez, but a few buffs/debuffs to help things along). I've never really had any issues except being an idiot at the the Great Serpent or whatever in Serpent Latnern (Elite), and trying to solo Moreau's Lab (also on elite) and just getting overwhelmed halfway through because entire rooms would aggro and use the Draysha buff relentlessly.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Yeah, in the leveling stuff he's great. Mostly feeling squishy in the new alert compared to my other tanks; but they're either level 40 or using invuln (which is great for that alert) so it might just be skewed perception.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Well, in its current state PFF isn't much of a tanking power, both because of underperformance and because of bad synergy with the game's strongest support mechanic; heals. To really fix it would require at least a rebalancing and probably a mechanics change, both of which take (comparably) large amounts of developer time and thus probably won't happen all that soon.
My proposal doesn't have huge balance implications as it won't make PFF characters suddenly outperform specialists, but it's still a buff to the playstyle you're kinda forced into as a PFF user at the moment. I'm also hoping that making PFF avaliable for the DPS roles is as easy as adding those roles to a list of allowed ones or adding PFF to the list of passives allowed in those roles; hopefully not too complicated in terms of developer effort.
Yes, acquiring Moonstruck is... challenging. But it's useful.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
My characters
Nope, I don't have the perk. I'll have to see if I ever manage to grind it out.
Edit: Is there something more to Moonstruck than the healing rune? Cause you can get that from other sources (and I do have one of those). Ok, just found the advantage. Pretty bad that this mechanic is hidden behind a perk wall like that.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
- Tank+Healer Essential: cosmics, warzone OMs, Frosticus.
- Tank+Healer Advised: Teleios Ascendant, Mega-Destroids, Baby Tanking,
- Tank or Healer Advised: other Rampages, Cybermind, Save the Earth, off-tanking TA/Warzone OMs.
- Tank or Healer nice to have: other alerts.
Regeneration is suboptimal for category 1; in the other categories it's good and in many cases the best.Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Yes, and in terms of the entire game ( where people use defensive passives even if a tank isn't needed ) it's even tinier. So really, in the vast majority of the game Regen is a fantastic passive. In a teeny tiny part of the game it is sub-optimal, but still viable.
The real problem with PFF is that nobody uses it so we can't really even say how it performs in the majority of the game's content .-.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Looking at numbers from here, we get:
- Defiance: 45,952 + healing * 3.28
- Regeneration: 34,035 + healing * 2.43 + 1249/s (this is ignoring loss of damage resistance).
- PFF: 48,304 + healing * 2.13 + 286s (this assumes PFF healing halved due to PFF damage).
PFF is ahead of Defiance by 2,352 + 286/s, but has -1.15 to its healing multiplier. Thus, if received healing exceeds 2,045 + 249/s, defiance will pull ahead. Note that a single use of resurgence is 10,500 hp, meaning with no other heals defiance will be better in fights lasting less than 34s. Most tanks have enough self-healing that PFF will never pull ahead of Defiance.PFF is ahead of Regeneration by 14,269, but is behind by 963/s and has -0.3 to its healing multiplier. Thus, in a fight lasting at least 15s, regeneration will pull ahead (and by more if healing is involved). Most fights lasting less than 15s do not do enough damage to matter.
Note that healing doesn't matter if you get oneshotted, so PFF would have a viable role there -- except that all bosses capable of hits large enough for that to matter also last long enough that PFF will drop to zero and stay there, dropping eHP to 29,787. If PFF could be healed and didn't have its healing rate reduced by damage, that would likely be enough to make it viable.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Maybe, maybe not.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
An Invulnerable tank I would argue is better than Defiance as well as they get all their resistance up front + a little damage mitigation which can stack up in fun ways if anyone is using ID's.
PFF on the other hand is pretty much the joke here. It may as well be an offensive style passive because it is very meh as a tanking passive. As mentioned you cannot heal the shield directly except for with ONE power. Moreover, because of how it works once it has been taken all the way down (One hit from most serious Cosmics even through Blocks) it will basically stay there because its Regen is crap. It somewhat helps if you can get shield or energy orbs but that is not a reliable fix. If they want this to be a viable tanking thing then it NEEDS to regen MUCH faster via blocking or have greater resistances applied to it, or be healable with the other shields. Right now it is just a temporary extra HP tank for all intense and purposes and it will not last you very long. If you get crazy and pull an extra 10K out of it and get yourself up to something like 20K HP and 10K Shield then you have a LOT of survivability but you would still be soooo much better off with any other tanking method because that 10K will vanish and then it is gone for the rest of the fight.
They could be taken separately or combined. One or more might be good, they could all be horrible.
1) Add a passive effect to all force powers that restores some amount of damage done from attacking with them to the PFF.
The amount healed could be a flat rate based upon the tier of the power used, or as a percentage of the damage of the power, and possibly further modified for certain powers.
The reason for further modification could be something like Gravity Driver requiring a full charge, thus making it more difficult to execute, or just them deciding that Force Detonation isn't making it into a whole lot of builds, so they add a percentage point to make it a little more enticing. Whatever they think is worth considering.
They could cap what each power could return from an attack to keep PFF from overperforming if that could be a risk.
This would not be an advantage. A PFFer should not have to spend advantage points just to get their defense to work at a basic level.
2) Add some powers to the framework that work like many attacks in the Celestial framework.
That is, when used to attack an enemy they deal damage, but when targeting yourself or a friendly character with PFF they heal the PFF.
Self explanatory, I think.
The one difference might be that where the Celestial framework powers do the same as damage or healing, these numbers could be different depending upon the usage.
These two are, I think, the simplest ideas.
3) PFF provides damage resistance based upon the field strength.
This is more complicated.
The PFFer would take damage through the field, which would make healing devices and powers more useful to PFFers along the way, but the field itself would have/provide damage resistance based upon it's total health.
A full field would allow some damage to leak through, would take some damage itself, and just absorb/dissipate a lot of the incoming attack.
But as the field weakens, more damage starts leaking through and more damage is applied to the health of the PFF itself, so the idea would be to keep the field near full power.
That is where options 1 & 2 come into play, as well as field surge and/or the field's passive regeneration, with all of the final numbers being left to the devs to determine.
- Field regeneration rate increases as health decreases (instead of current behavior, where it decreases), with a max similar to regeneration.
- Provides damage resistance (similar to the 20-30% from regen) at low field strength.
This will still mean the field drops to 0 much of the time in cosmic-level content, but on average you'll have a single tic worth of health on your field to resist any large spike, plus you get the inherent damage resistance.I think a question has to be how PFF is supposed to play, though. It's not enough to be numerically competitive, it also has to 'feel' right.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Well if we use it like most Shooters then it should get massive regen if you can get out of taking damage for a time. In that case it is definitely more of a Support/Balanced Passive.
Otherwise it would want to have high resistances when it was up to full strength slowly losing them as it dwindled but there is no reason outside energy should not be able to bolster it.
My Characters on PRIMUS
[#]WeNeedHeroicFashion - <Aura Suggestions> - <CO Wiki (WIP)> - <Crowd Control Discussion> - <Telepathy in Champions Online> - How to review The Force Power Set - Join the Champions Online: On Alert Discord!
I am @RavenForce in game
__________________________
(probably not, but it makes sense to me)
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
My characters
Hey now, we all know Sapphire's PFF is made of much stronger stuff. It can easily withstand her vocals, so it's pretty awesome.
My Characters on PRIMUS
[#]WeNeedHeroicFashion - <Aura Suggestions> - <CO Wiki (WIP)> - <Crowd Control Discussion> - <Telepathy in Champions Online> - How to review The Force Power Set - Join the Champions Online: On Alert Discord!
I am @RavenForce in game
__________________________