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Thoughts about CO as a Subscriber / Lifetime subscription.
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Posts: 309 Arc User
We all know there's a ton of bugs and glitches, some recide from as long back as beta,
yet countless of them still remain to be sorted out. Some of them have serious impact on gameplay
while other's are considered "tolerable".
But how can a game with subscriptionstatus and a 300$ Lifetimesub have a mindset
of having "tolerable" bugs and glitches that are a decade old and not getting sorted?.
Yesterday for example, i found out that some cosmics has a glitched hitbox and if you are
too close, some of your powers won't do any damage AT ALL.. the infamous "cone bug" on the Dino for example.
We know that everytime we request something to get fixed or added, we're replied with the same
excuse that "we can't because it's too hard with the old coding". This tells me that you'll happily
take the all the money from Zen-store, lifetimesubs and monthly subs, but fixing more or less serious
issues aren't even on the table - because "old code".
Now don't take this as a rant or that i am unappreciative of the game, i love it, but that also means
that i have to question what is being done TO the game.. which is nothing . Each event we have are
just events going in circles, nothing new. Telios Ascendant is old content re-skinned and re-used
for a "new" dungeon. The Cosmics are the same, old content in new finish.
Infact, since 2009 we actually have LESS content than now, because dungeons had their loot removed,
and there's no longer any point running Adventures.
Something i heard yesterday while we were talking about the current state of CO in Ren-Cen was
that everytime someone in the "Dev division" shows initiative with good ideas, they are moved
to STO or NWO.. and CO is just an abandoned product that is kept around to make money.
Now... some people might consider costumes "content", but its not content - its cosmetics.
When was the last time we had a serious effort in fixing the memoryleak?. I've played many 32bit games
on my PC that doesn't crash after 4 hours "on the clock" almost .
What about this mysterious "chat bubble bug" that for some reason removed all cutscene bubbles ?.
What about these daily broken Alert-queues that can go on for hours ?.
I love playing the game and making themed heroes with awesome costumes.. but we have to look
beyond that and really ask the question , why isn't almost anything fixed, and how does that
justify monthly subs or 300$ lifetime payment?.
It's just questions that needs to be brought up, so don't shoot the messenger.
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Also why this obsession with what something looks like? TA isn't old content reskinned, in fact it's not reskinned at all. TA is old assets reused to produce new content. If you think TA is the same content as Telios Tower then you haven't played Telios Tower.
As far as Cosmics, they have been enduring active content for quite a while now, so it'll be hard to frame the Cosmic revamp as a mistake.
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We all know that champs isn't a cash cow for cryptic. It seems that it doesn't make a ton of money but it makes enough to justify some development. Being that they have a limited development team, not all areas of development can be accounted for. There's no one singular role of "developer" which makes you an expert in content design, systems design, art design, coding, and animation. These are all things that are normally taken care of by several people.
So bugs tolerated by the developers? Might be because there's not enough hours in the day to tackle everything, or it might be outside of the expertise of the developers on hand.
Bugs tolerated by the players? Obviously this'll come down to personal preference but for me as an example, the core of the game is fun and engaging enough that the good outweighs the bad. Champs is literally the only MMO I've been able to play for more than 3 years. So it's safe to say it's my favorite MMO. I've played other MMOs that have more content, bigger budget and development team, basically all the tools to make a game better than Champions, but none have struck that chord with me. So since this game gives me what none other can/has, it's easy to see past bugs and stuff. Do I want more content in Champs? Do I want more bugs fixed? Of course. But the game is still good and better than the sum of its bugs, so I can tolerate them. Might not be in a current deceloper's wheelhouse. Either they don't know how to fix it, or it's something they have to spend a lot of time researching. It's not an excuse, but a reason. Yes they'll happily take the money because they've earned it. Creating that content (even lockbox contents) isn't free, all these people have a job to do and expect to get paid for it. Do you think they should stop taking money until they've fixed all the bugs? Or should they fire all the current developers and hire some that can fix these bugs in particular?
Let's explore that. We get some good-ol bug fixing heroes, and they fix bugs like the hit boxes and sort through all the old code. Unless these fixes are monumental and cause a huge surge in revenue, then we're stuck with these guys. They can fix bugs but can they design costumes? Can they design content? Are they familiar enough with the powers systems to balance the sets and add new powers without breaking everything? Chances are that Champions has 20 different seats to fill but only four or five of those can be filled at any one time (these numbers are just made up for the sake of example). Regardless of what you do, you can't fill all the roles, so you'll be hurting somewhere. Unless, of course, huge surge in revenue.
Even if they did find jack-of-all-trades developers who can fill every possible role, they can't do three or four jobs at once. So you're still getting the same amount of development time.
I've seen games where the content was designed by the programmers and it wasn't pretty. Coding is not designing and vice versa. Anyone remember the missions leading up to the Lemurian Invasion event? There's probably a reason those got swept under the rug. Bit of hyperbole. Champs seems to be the training grounds for Cryptic rookies. Once they've got some experience with the engine, they get shuffled over. I think Kaiserin was hired specifically for Champs though, so hopefully she'll be sticking around. The chat bubble bug is actually being fixed. Because fixing bugs isn't the only part of the game. They work, they do their job and get work done, and provide stuff for the game that we like. It might not be the work that you like, but it's work nonetheless. Personally, I don't know of any current bugs or issues in the game that make me value it less or reduce my fun with it. To me, those bugs are absolutely tolerable. Like the chat bubble thing. Made the game look goofy but I can live with it. Heck, the scroll bar on the chat window covering text bugs me more than anything else, but it's tolerable to me. It's all perfectly valid concerns.
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Last I heard, there are less than ten devs on CO's team. Which means, it can be very hard to do any large scale coding. CO, despite not seeming it, is actually a fairly large game content wise. The only problem, is that people are to focuses on "rewards" and not "story" or "the game itself". So, most of the game is not touched by many players simply because of the lack of rewards. Other players, do not do much in the game because they already basically did everything in the game, and thus, are burned out of doing content that isn't cosmics/rampages/alerts or costume contests. I fall into that category. I've done so much in the game, I just cannot really find myself to do anything beyond costume contests.
Plus, if the devs focus only on the bugs and do not add new content, some players will assume that CO is not going to ever get any more content.
In the end, it is basically those reasons you do not see things the players have asked for happening (often that is).
Yes, CO has flaws and bugs, all games do... some issues are more serious than others, but that's why we report them. Devs won't know what to fix if we don't say anything. Even then, there's a lot of work to do for our small and brave team. I'm sure they're always hard at work figuring things out. Some things can be acted on immediately, others take time to study before a fix can be worked up.
One of the biggest resource constraints people forget about is time. The team can't respond to everything, so they have to prioritize what they think the game needs most. Bug fixes, power reworks, new content, etc. None of that is going to suddenly appear out of thin air.
What I think would help is if we, as a community, state what we believe is more important to the game in a unified manner. The Dev team DOES listen, but as I said before, they can't respond to everything. If we give them a direction, I'm certain they'll pursue it to the best of their ability.
And I will always be @DZPlayer122.
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Thanks for the civil replies and not turning this into a roast.
Being a frequent alpha and betatester on games, i do enjoy working with developers
to report and solve problems or give ideas. But in the case of CO, i have absolutely no
clue how to solve some things. Like my Heirloom set that is glitched and hasn't ranked up
their stats in 20 levels.. I reported it, can't do much else.
And i have to say, that if what you said is true, that CO is some kind of trainingground for
Devs to get ferried over to other "more important" games when they've achieved enough
experience.. than that is absolutely insane and wrong by the people in command.
CO has been around for almost a decade now, it has an almost religious community
and deserves more attention from PWE.
But I'm super biased.
In the meantime any time they put out a lockbox with stuff I want I'm gonna dump cash on it. I think they're catching on cause last few lockboxes have been hard on my wallet.
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If the 6th place game in terms of players is making more per player than the 5th place game, let alone making more overall, who should the company try to keep happier?
Same goes for the 7th place, 8th place, etc.
Now I can not say how much this or that game is making as compared to some other game, but does anyone here think that PWE won't try to satisfy the players that are giving them the most money?
CO deserves what the players are paying for. Nothing more, nothing less.
It's not a charity.
I take this quote from a review that I agree with.
"customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
I can tell you that they likely do what every company I have worked for does. Cost benefit risk analysis. How much does it cost to fix, how many players benefit, and what is the risk to break other things by making changes.
In the case of your long term bugs, either the risk to break other things is too high, or the cost to fix is too much. There's a tight budget on this game so they have harder choices than most groups. There are bugs in code that I wrote that you might be using that have existed for a long time. I wish they would let me fix some of them.
Finally, I do object to items being content. One of the endearing traits of this game is that it's not an eternal gear grind. The content is still there, you choose not to run it. That's not on cryptic. That's on you for min maxing your time. There's no real endgame, so enjoy the ride.
I play and enjoy most of the content. But the beauty is that if you want to blast xp alerts from 10 to 40, that's your choice. Sometimes I do. Sometimes I mission grind. I love that there are choices.
I say this while realizing the budget of this game is tight as hell.
As someone who works in QA for a living in a small development department in a non-for-profit I agree with everything else you said--specifically about software development.
Hanging out on gaming forums and spouting anti-establishment nonsense seems a poor way to implement meaningful change in your lifetime.
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@mithrosnomore
That's okay, people that try to change the world for the better end up dead anyways, change also comes from within, It's more of a observational truth that proves itself on a day-to-day basis, as long as works right? as long as you get what you want, right? even at others expense, who cares!?,
Believe what you want, try to enlighten, so as long as you know, otherwise seek it yourself, or don't, your choice, which I was trying to convey previously as well, we can only save ourselves, we're all in this together, no-one else will help us, unless this mythological entity comes to save us all one day, cleanse the wicked with the prodigal son people believe in, then humanity continues to do this to themselves, at-least acknowledge a degree a validity here, otherwise we continue to stand divided, like your assumptions.
*Quills turned Tinfoil for a short time, making them shine in the light*
I take this quote from a review that I agree with.
"customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
Newsflash: You're going to die anyway.
Also? This is still a gaming forum and your overdramatic BS doesn't sell.
You aren't deep, you aren't some light showing the way to those living in darkness.
You are a self-important bore.
also, if we don't find your ideas to be valid there's no reason we should lie or pretend they are just so we don't "stand divided". I'm just fine knowing that I'm divided from people who spout nonsense that doesn't make sense and distracts from actual important things that are actually happening.
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And playing by myself since Aug 2009
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I'm curious to why you're criticizing me in such a way, does my perspective differ so greatly that you can't contemplate it's possibility? or do you just need to rationalize it in such a dismissive, disregarding and antagonizing manner because of whatever reason.
Your point? could refer to the meaning of life philosophy, mortal circumstances affect us all, does that mean no effort should be attempted? even if it's talking to your fellow man.
Again, your point? it's still a medium of expression, I'm not a business, I'm not attempting to profiteer (Nor do I have any interest in such a practice), refer to comment up top, you want overly dramatic, go watch the News/Politics and reality TV shows cause Distractions & Emotions!
That's relative, I never claimed to be, I'm just trying to help, how I can, even if it's just a message, to understand, which is more then I can say then your responses, as I've mentioned in my previous post, we have to find it ourselves, people can direct us (For better or worse) but you have to realize truth yourself, cause the corrupted won't admit anything cause they don't profit from that, re-read it if you're willing to.
Ow, My feelings... Again, first message, assumption and borderline ad hominem, just because you don't care, *Sigh* this is going no where, if you insist in insulting me then nothing is accomplished and we both wasted energy attempting establishing communication so their is no purpose in continuing this further, I wish no ill will so I bid you farewell.
I take this quote from a review that I agree with.
"customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
You kinda tried to make him look like an idiot for pointing out that the game isn't a charity. You failed on that btw but it still opens the door for an equivalent rebuttal. All the sanctimonious stuff didn't help either, saying you're trying to "change the world" while arguing on a video game forum is just about one of the best ways to ensure nobody ever takes you seriously and generally looks down on you o3o
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
do you currently have LTS?
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
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