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PFF and Regeneration For Main Tanking Suggestion Topic #299203129
lezard21
Posts: 1,510 Arc User
So let's skip the introduction cause this topic's been made in the past, suggestion time BOOM!
BUT FIRST!
Let's take a look at NotInvulnorDefiance, aka. Lightning Reflexes. It's super good! It allows you to do dumb stuff like not block during Kiga's Frost Breath. However it has a catch! You have to keep dodge at 100% at all times or you risk going SPLAT!
So here we have a Defensive Passive that potentially performs better than Defiance, but with a risk!
So
Copy/Paste that to PFF and Regeneration.
DONE!
No?
Ok, let's go into detail.
So here is how the New And Improved™ player version of PFF should work.
Player gains a huge bubble. I don't know how damage is even calculated for bubbles, leave that for sciency boys and their calcs. A bubble so huge that would allow the Tank to do cray-cray stuff like take 1 unblocked hit from a Cosmic (but not 2!) or allow him to tank multiple hits while blocking with a PFF passive no soak and mediocre heals unlike the current meta.
That sounds OP enough, so now the catch!
Just like with Draconis back in the day,the shield will deactivate for a small window of x seconds every x amount of time. During that time the tank would be left as weak as wet paper being forced to turtle behind his block while the shield regenerates again once x seconds have passed.
Ok, calm down. Don't pee yourself in excitement yet. We still have to talk about...
It's really terrible! Even at the moment of writing this down, a couple of very specialized PFF tanks exist that can main tank Cosmics under certain conditions.
But that's not the case for Regeneration! The leaps and hoops you have to go through to make this passive work just don't make it worth it. And the fact that it's main attractive appeal, that is, it's health regeneration every 3 seconds is rendered moot by the fact that, if you are main tanking, you'll have an army of healers fighting against each other to proc their heal on you quicker than the other to boost their credit.
So screw that noise and let's focus on Regeneration's other current gimmick: damage resistance goes down as you take damage.
That's actually an interesting gimmick! It's main problem however is that it's starting point is...30%.
So. Let's boost that number up by a lot! At 6 stacks Defiance is sitting around ~120%. The New And Improved™ Regeneration will have something like 150%.
As we said before, the resistance going down as you take damage is actually GOOD, so we'll use that.
However, what is not good is having the Damage Resistance Regeneration being tied to your health going up. That limits the ceiling on how much we could increase the damage resistance of Regeneration without making it completely OP over the other defensive passives due to (again) the fact that if you are main tanking you will be filled up to full Hp almost immediately by your healer slaves.
So New Catch will have your Damage Resistance Regeneration be tied to attacking a bleeding/poisoned target and the amount of Damage Resistance it will regen will be dependant to the number of stacks (whichever is highest to avoid people stacking both Poison and Bleeding and becoming OP HAXLords). Add an ICD of 3 seconds to avoid one thousdand cuts death spamming for MAXIMUMUMUM regen.
Now, let's make up some numbers to better understand this
Let's make it so 1k damage after mitigation = 10% Damage Resistance lost. At 7k damage (the average of an unsoaked direct hit from Cosmic) it will represent a total of 70% damage resistance loss. 150% initial resistance - 70% resistance from damage taken = 80% current resistance.
Now 1 stack of Bleed/Poison would regen 12% damage resistance. At 5 stacks that would be 60% regeneration, getting us back up to 140% damage resistance, almost full but not quite, which makes sense since in most comics regeneration has a limit and in a fight that drags on it eventually runs out.
However, if played smartly and you take advantage of the Cosmic's openings you can end up regaining your Damage Resistance fully.
Heck, to make it even more interesting buildwise, you could have 2 variable parameters. Have the maximum damage resistance be dependant on your Superstats, but have the amount it regenerates from hitting a bleeding/poisoned target depend on the amount of Presence (or Recovery if you hate the world) you have.
Now for Regeneration we could use Unbreakable, mainly because Resurgence is already super good by itself so adding more functionality to it would be overkill and Unbreakable is mostly reserved for Healers. When you pop Unbreakable on, it gives you the standard shielding defense that it normally does, but if your passive is Regeneration it prevents taking damage from reducing it's Damage Resistance.
And done with this for today since it's almost 4 AM
Leave feedback or own suggestions below
Lezard out o/
BUT FIRST!
Let's take a look at NotInvulnorDefiance, aka. Lightning Reflexes. It's super good! It allows you to do dumb stuff like not block during Kiga's Frost Breath. However it has a catch! You have to keep dodge at 100% at all times or you risk going SPLAT!
So here we have a Defensive Passive that potentially performs better than Defiance, but with a risk!
So
Copy/Paste that to PFF and Regeneration.
DONE!
No?
Ok, let's go into detail.
Personal Force Field
My vision for this power comes from Draconis' version. No, not the sad soap bubble he currently has. I'm talking about the stupid OP broken bubble he used to have when On Alert just launched. The PFF that would cause people not to queue whichever alert he was on until all 3 alerts were left stuck on Draconis until the devs stepped up their game and gave us the salvation from alert monopolization in the form of Ao'Qephoth, but that is a story for another day.So here is how the New And Improved™ player version of PFF should work.
Player gains a huge bubble. I don't know how damage is even calculated for bubbles, leave that for sciency boys and their calcs. A bubble so huge that would allow the Tank to do cray-cray stuff like take 1 unblocked hit from a Cosmic (but not 2!) or allow him to tank multiple hits while blocking with a PFF passive no soak and mediocre heals unlike the current meta.
That sounds OP enough, so now the catch!
Just like with Draconis back in the day,the shield will deactivate for a small window of x seconds every x amount of time. During that time the tank would be left as weak as wet paper being forced to turtle behind his block while the shield regenerates again once x seconds have passed.
Ok, calm down. Don't pee yourself in excitement yet. We still have to talk about...
Regeneration
So Regeneration...It's really terrible! Even at the moment of writing this down, a couple of very specialized PFF tanks exist that can main tank Cosmics under certain conditions.
But that's not the case for Regeneration! The leaps and hoops you have to go through to make this passive work just don't make it worth it. And the fact that it's main attractive appeal, that is, it's health regeneration every 3 seconds is rendered moot by the fact that, if you are main tanking, you'll have an army of healers fighting against each other to proc their heal on you quicker than the other to boost their credit.
So screw that noise and let's focus on Regeneration's other current gimmick: damage resistance goes down as you take damage.
That's actually an interesting gimmick! It's main problem however is that it's starting point is...30%.
So. Let's boost that number up by a lot! At 6 stacks Defiance is sitting around ~120%. The New And Improved™ Regeneration will have something like 150%.
As we said before, the resistance going down as you take damage is actually GOOD, so we'll use that.
However, what is not good is having the Damage Resistance Regeneration being tied to your health going up. That limits the ceiling on how much we could increase the damage resistance of Regeneration without making it completely OP over the other defensive passives due to (again) the fact that if you are main tanking you will be filled up to full Hp almost immediately by your healer slaves.
So New Catch will have your Damage Resistance Regeneration be tied to attacking a bleeding/poisoned target and the amount of Damage Resistance it will regen will be dependant to the number of stacks (whichever is highest to avoid people stacking both Poison and Bleeding and becoming OP HAXLords). Add an ICD of 3 seconds to avoid one thousdand cuts death spamming for MAXIMUMUMUM regen.
Now, let's make up some numbers to better understand this
Let's make it so 1k damage after mitigation = 10% Damage Resistance lost. At 7k damage (the average of an unsoaked direct hit from Cosmic) it will represent a total of 70% damage resistance loss. 150% initial resistance - 70% resistance from damage taken = 80% current resistance.
Now 1 stack of Bleed/Poison would regen 12% damage resistance. At 5 stacks that would be 60% regeneration, getting us back up to 140% damage resistance, almost full but not quite, which makes sense since in most comics regeneration has a limit and in a fight that drags on it eventually runs out.
However, if played smartly and you take advantage of the Cosmic's openings you can end up regaining your Damage Resistance fully.
Heck, to make it even more interesting buildwise, you could have 2 variable parameters. Have the maximum damage resistance be dependant on your Superstats, but have the amount it regenerates from hitting a bleeding/poisoned target depend on the amount of Presence (or Recovery if you hate the world) you have.
About Active Defenses
Remember Field Surge? Yeah, me neither. Now is the chance to make it relevant again! When you turn this Active Defense on, it prevents the PFF from turning off and regenerates X amount of shield every second. Spiffy!Now for Regeneration we could use Unbreakable, mainly because Resurgence is already super good by itself so adding more functionality to it would be overkill and Unbreakable is mostly reserved for Healers. When you pop Unbreakable on, it gives you the standard shielding defense that it normally does, but if your passive is Regeneration it prevents taking damage from reducing it's Damage Resistance.
And done with this for today since it's almost 4 AM
Leave feedback or own suggestions below
Lezard out o/
Post edited by lezard21 on
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Comments
Hmm, as someone who has used PFF for ages...here is a quick summary of my thoughts on the two force powers mentioned.
Personal Force Field
I've taken this from my Force Revamp suggestion thread:
"Personal Force Field
- In Combat Shield Regeneration is now a consistent value, which is shown on tooltip.
- Shield Regeneration scaling has been improved slightly.
- Shield Regeneration rate is now per 1.5 sec (up from per 3 secs)
- Personal Force Field now comes with a new power called "Force Burst". Force Burst ranks up as you rank up PFF. Force Burst grants the user 50% of their maximum Personal Force Field value instantly and doubles the current regeneration rate of PFF for 20 seconds, but can only be activated at less than or equal to 40% maximum PFF. This ability has a 30 second fixed cooldown.
- Personal Force Field no longer benefits from Compassion Form's boost to shields.
- Personal Force Field no longer benefits from the following shield boosting specializations Administer & Enforcer (within Overseer & Arbiter trees).
- Personal Force Field now has 30% damage resistance added to the actual containment field effect it applies (= the shield it grants).
- This damage resistance can increase by a maximum of 15% as shields deplete. (bonus resistance kicks in around 70% remaining shield)"
This is one way, probably close to the best way, to tackle PFF whilst keeping it unique in terms of sticking to theme and allowing it to not be unstoppable.
The only thing I'd add to that version above is to expand the base shield value, I shouldn't have to use a lot of modifications to end up with 9.5 - 11k PFFs without Compassion or shield boosting specs. But I've omitted that because I'd honestly just like to test a better version of PFF before feeding in various modifications.
It's abundantly clear that the shield layer needs resistance for the shield in addition to the underlayering it currently has resistances wise (unless that's broken again), otherwise the shield strength would have to be absolutely insane values wise.
As someone who has used PFF for years (and years) I think PFF's other problem is the lack of specific information around the passive as well as various weaknesses it seems to have all over the place (e.g. VIPER).
I am curious with the "catch" you mention. Because if you've used it you'll know this is part of the design of the current version of PFF to be deactivated by "overwhelming damage" and then it takes a while to return, since if the damage levels remain the same, you are likely to die as the regen per 3 sec won't cut it.
The 'catch' with the current version is that you'll still need to watch your HP due to bleed through.
Also I think PFF's effectiveness does to some degree rely on your damage output, for example, if you are pumping out damage, PFF is going to be mostly fine against trash because your TTK is incredibly short, this is a bit iffy when you look at other builds with PFF and slower / longer TTK.
--
Field Surge
I've taken this from my Force Revamp suggestion thread:
"Field Surge
- The base restore to Personal Force Field that Field Surge grants has been increased. 10,000 @ Rank 1, 15,000 @ Rank 2 & 20,000 @ Rank 3.
- The force field that Field Surge provides can activate the "Surging Shields" buff.
- Surging Shields buff causes the force field that Field Surge provides to continually regenerate itself for the full 15 seconds IF used in conjunction with Kinetic Manipulation Passive or Personal Force Field Passive. Outside of these two passives, Field Surge will simply provide a shield.
-
Note: Unleashed AT will have the Field Surge Active Defensive switched for Masterful Dodge."
Values may need tweaking downwards, but then again maybe not when you consider that Field Surge doesn't benefit from resistances so will take raw damage, so maybe the values would need tweaking upwards.
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Also isn't your suggestion for PFF basically how it works now, just delaying the inevitable "oops the PFF tank died cause their passive went away" situation?
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Capacity Shield - 10%(or more) increase in total PFF HP, but 25% less regen
Regeneration Shield - 10% more Regen, but 25% less total PFF HP
Adaptive Shield - 10% lower PFF HP and Regen than standard shield, but gains a stacking Resistance buff vs type of damage taken. Maximum of 10 stacks, can have multiple damage types resisted. If damage type is not applied to Shield within X amount of time, that Resistance stack falls off and can be replaced with another. Resistance applies to the PFF only.
Taking one of these 1-Point Advantages locks out the others.