Tank Builds - Best Framework?

sundevil3 · April 2018

I was thinking of trying out a tank build, as all I've ever played are DPS builds and, occasionally, healing/support builds. I don't have any particular character concept in mind yet, so I'm pretty open as far as that goes. Is there one framework that's better for tank builds than others, or are they all about equal?

pantagruel01 · April 2018

The normal build for a main tank is Strength primary, Con secondary (third superstat often energy-related), using a melee set (pretty much any melee set works, though it tends to be easier to something that stacks enrage easily) and Defiance as a passive.

flowcyto · April 2018

Most powersets can be good for tanks now (the ones that could be seen still as sub-par are mostly likely that way cause they haven't been revamped yet). Melee sets will still likely have an easier time at boss tanking vs. ranged sets, mainly cause if you are using Conc or Chilled Form it can be harder to proc those when targets are in ur face (though there are more ranged toggles/forms now that can have diff proc conditions, depending on the set). Ranged powersets can still work for tanking, though, even if ur just using ranged attacks in melee range. It does somewhat depend on the content too.

Were there any powersets in particular you'd like to use?

pantagruel01 · April 2018

While you can make ranged work, there's a couple reasons strength is preferred:

Most bosses like to get up close and personal and have ways of making sure they succeed, so you're not really getting much benefit for ranged.
Melee generally has higher dps than ranged, and a lot of your threat comes from dps.
The Juggernaut spec for Strength is very beneficial for tanks, but using Strength as a primary superstat on a ranged build is grossly ineffective.

flowcyto · April 2018

Eh, STR PSS can be fine for ranged, just cause Juggernaut + Con SS is so nice. The main issue then, imo, is you only have one SS that's not devoted to Con to handle all other issues w/ (energy, EU, toggle/form, etc), and some ranged builds just may not be able to make that jive easily.

I agree that melee also overall has more high-dps options than ranged to fall back on, and that can matter in some fights where you don't get much attack uptime. That's not all content, though, so I guess it just depends.

sundevil3 · April 2018

flowcyto said:
Were there any powersets in particular you'd like to use?

I was thinking maybe infernal supernatural? Can a good tank be made with that?

flowcyto · April 2018

A DE tank def can be good, if you don't mind using that attack. One example, as a basic template:

(Unnamed Build) - Freeform
v2.4.2-29

Super Stats
Level 6: Strength (Primary)
Level 10: Dexterity (Secondary)
Level 15: Constitution (Secondary)

Talents
Level 1: The Master (Str: 8, Dex: 10, Con: 10, Rec: 10)
Level 6: Covert Ops Training (Str: 3, Dex: 3, Con: 3, Int: 3)
Level 9: Acrobat (Dex: 5, Con: 5)
Level 12: Physical Conditioning (Str: 5, Con: 5)
Level 15: Martial Focus (Str: 5, Dex: 5)
Level 18: Quick Recovery (Con: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 21: Impresario (Dex: 5, Rec: 5)

Powers
Level 1: Infernal Bolts (advantages)
Level 1: Devour Essence (Rank 2, Rank 3, Challenge!)
Level 6: Supernatural Power
Level 8: Invulnerability (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Form of the Tempest (advantages)
Level 14: Epidemic (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 17: Will-o'-the-Wisp (Guide, Ghost Fire, Challenge!)
Level 20: Resurgence (Rank 2)
Level 23: Antagonize (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 26: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 29: Masterful Dodge (advantages)
Level 32: Pounce (Furious Rush)
Level 35:
Level 38:
Adv. Points: 30/36

Travel Powers
Level 6:
Level 35:

Specializations
Strength: Swole (2/3)
Strength: Physical Peak (3/3)
Strength: Brutality (2/2)
Strength: Juggernaut (3/3)
Warden: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
Warden: Elusive (2/2)
Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
Vindicator: Mass Destruction (2/3)
Mastery: Strength Mastery (1/1)

You can also use another defensive passive, if you like. Main stats here are Con w/ some Dex, though you prob want some Rec & End (and cost discount) to help w/ energy.

sundevil3 · April 2018

Thanks for the template, flowcyto. I have a "tester" character who remains in the Powerhouse (and can therefore train and undo powers without cost). I tried out the template with him. It was very durable, but energy was a huge problem. I had to constantly rely on my energy builder. I assume a large part of the reason for this is that the tester character uses gear from the Questionite store (e.g., Samurai's gear, Cyber Augmented gear, or Armadillo's gear), which only provides superstats, defense, and offense. Unfortunately, I also like to use that gear when I'm leveling characters, so I don't have to bother upgrading my gear regularly.

Do you have any suggestions to deal with the energy issue?

pantagruel01 · April 2018

Supernatural power is a very good energy unlock if you're using infernal maintains (less good but still good for charges).

sundevil3 · April 2018

pantagruel01 said:
Supernatural power is a very good energy unlock if you're using infernal maintains (less good but still good for charges).

I seem to be having trouble with it. I'll use an infernal supernatural maintain (e.g., epidemic), drain my energy close to zero, but Supernatural Power sometimes won't kick in.

pantagruel01 · April 2018

sundevil3 said:
I seem to be having trouble with it. I'll use an infernal supernatural maintain (e.g., epidemic), drain my energy close to zero, but Supernatural Power sometimes won't kick in.

You often have to take a minor superstat in endurance to make supernatural power reliable (it scales on Rec, but its trigger condition is mostly about End).

flowcyto · April 2018

Yea, having no (or little) cost discount can be a big issue w/ some leveling gear. Unfortunately, you don't tend to get high amounts of cost discount until late gear levels. You can change to a CON/Dex/End_Rec SS setup if you want more help w/ energy (though you'd lose Str's Physical Peak for DE).

Super Stats
Level 6: Constitution (Primary)
Level 10: Dexterity (Secondary)
Level 15: Endurance (Secondary)

Talents
Level 1: The Chiller (Dex: 10, Con: 10, Rec: 8, End: 10)
Level 6: Acrobat (Dex: 5, Con: 5)
Level 9: Boundless Reserves (Con: 5, End: 5)
Level 12: Accurate (Dex: 5, End: 5)
Level 15: Quick Recovery (Con: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 18: Impresario (Dex: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 21: Amazing Stamina (Rec: 5, End: 5)

Specializations
Constitution: Unyielding (1/2)
Constitution: Fuel My Fire (3/3)
Constitution: Resilient (2/2)
Constitution: Adrenaline Rush (2/2)
Constitution: Armored (2/2)
Mastery: Constitution Mastery (1/1)

SP is a great EU for Bestial and Infernal, but it does rely on you making the 15% energy threshhold better w/ Rec and End for a smooth rotation.

Unknown · April 2018

This content has been removed.

sterga · April 2018

There is one EU that works with Con. You can try Spirit Rev + Soul Vortex for energy. Or any other way that applies Fear and any powers that causes dimensional damage. I hear the new Unarmed powers all can do dimensional damage. One of them is even a knock that can work nicely for an Enrage build.

flowcyto · April 2018

bluegrassbeast said:
Also remember, if using Defiance you're going to be getting energy return from being hit, and I believe that also scales off Recovery (or used to, anyhow).

Defiance's energy gain also scales w/ Con (and it seems less-so w/ Rec) atm, but yeah it can work fine here as the passive instead- as long as you can secure threat (and/or off-tank) to reliably get hit when in groups.

Tank Builds - Best Framework?

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