test content
  • Games
  • Social
  • Arc News
  • Support
  • Zen
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Forums > Home› Power Discussion

Why does Force Cascade Cancel Stormbringer but not Unstoppable?

navar#3536 navar
navar#3536
 Posts: 117 Arc User
in Power Discussion
It looks like Unstoppable is the only DPS passive that Cascade doesn't cancel out. Why is this?

Comments

  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,742 Arc User
    FC cancels out energy forms, but not all slotted passives are EFs. Just look for the ones w/o 'energy form' somewhere in their description, though sticking w/ Unstoppable is fine for FC builds for the extra energy on knock.
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • navar#3536 navar
    navar#3536
         Posts: 117 Arc User
    flowcyto said:

    FC cancels out energy forms, but not all slotted passives are EFs. Just look for the ones w/o 'energy form' somewhere in their description, though sticking w/ Unstoppable is fine for FC builds for the extra energy on knock.

    I see, okay thank you.
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    The plausible choices for dps passives for Force Cascade are Night Warrior, Quarry, and Unstoppable.
    My guide to Teleios Ascendant
    Epic Stronghold
    Block timing explained
  • rtmartma Posts: 1,198 Arc User
    Cause someone thought stripping your own passive (Synergy, Kinetic Manipulation) every time you unload a Force Cascade was a 'Good' idea/mechanic... I hope they get rid of that in a Force Revamp, it's pretty much the only thing with that interaction that kills the DPS theme concept.
    Want to get to know me a bit better, Click me and take a read of My Dragon Profile Page, it's a bit dated but still relevant.

    I take this quote from a review that I agree with.

    "customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    Well, force cascade is also something like 1/3 energy cost if it does strip an energy form, which was more significant at game launch than it is now.
    My guide to Teleios Ascendant
    Epic Stronghold
    Block timing explained
  • aesicaaesica Posts: 2,537 Arc User
    edited January 2018
    rtma wrote: »
    Cause someone thought stripping your own passive (Synergy, Kinetic Manipulation) every time you unload a Force Cascade was a 'Good' idea/mechanic... I hope they get rid of that in a Force Revamp, it's pretty much the only thing with that interaction that kills the DPS theme concept.
    If I had to wager a guess, this was probably meant to encourage its use as an opening strike, or perhaps to make people more carefully weigh the pros and cons of using it when they want a high burst of damage. I highly doubt it was meant to be the spammable nuke people use it for today, despite the lack of other realistic options in the Force framework. Where there's a will/necessity, there's a way I suppose.
    (Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
  • navar#3536 navar
    navar#3536
         Posts: 117 Arc User
    aesica said:



    rtma wrote: »

    Cause someone thought stripping your own passive (Synergy, Kinetic Manipulation) every time you unload a Force Cascade was a 'Good' idea/mechanic... I hope they get rid of that in a Force Revamp, it's pretty much the only thing with that interaction that kills the DPS theme concept.

    If I had to wager a guess, this was probably meant to encourage its use as an opening strike, or perhaps to make people more carefully weigh the pros and cons of using it when they want a high burst of damage. I highly doubt it was meant to be the spammable nuke people use it for today, despite the lack of other realistic options in the Force framework. Where there's a will/necessity, there's a way I suppose.

    I do agree, unless you play Force for a Support Role, Force Cascade IMO is the ONLY ability that is worth anything in that set for DPS...all of the other abilities are just blah. This explains why nobody uses an Energy Form (well, almost nobody, I do see people use energy forms from time to time) with Force...not only does it cancel your buff for Force Cascade, but it also kills the DPS of the already extremely lacking damage for the other abilities as well.

    It is my favorite power set, but it is very difficult to feel viable with it unless you spam Force Cascade...and I hate when a power set is nothing but a one trick pony. Would be nice if that set was given a complete overhaul and fixed so that all the abilities are a viable choice.
  • magpieuk2014magpieuk2014 Posts: 1,268 Arc User
    I would be worried about that Force revamp. The FCtrade off with the Energy Form is not so significant as it was and I would expect other effects (such as consuming toggle form stacks) to be added in the name of balancing. We can hardly complain. FC does so much damage that it should be probably be uptiered and become an ultimate.
  • navar#3536 navar
    navar#3536
         Posts: 117 Arc User
    magpieuk2014 said:

    I would be worried about that Force revamp. The FCtrade off with the Energy Form is not so significant as it was and I would expect other effects (such as consuming toggle form stacks) to be added in the name of balancing. We can hardly complain. FC does so much damage that it should be probably be uptiered and become an ultimate.

    If you make the lacking abilities viable, people wouldn't abuse Force Cascade. Bu8t if they do make them viable, sure...I would have no issues with turning it in to an Ultimate. Although if the set was made viable for DPS, there would be no reason to make it an Ultimate.
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,742 Arc User
    I wouldn't be too worried at a revamp unbalancing FC. Kaiz seems to be more in-tune w/ things like dps vs. energy vs. tier trade offs and whatnot- plus powersets under revamp tend to get many tweaks as they happen, and people will def be parsing anything that comes out.
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • roughbearmattachroughbearmattach Posts: 4,784 Arc User
    If the damage on FC seems high, it could just be given a short CD--I think Force Detonation has one, too.

    The energy form cancellation technique is from a much older iteration of the game. Now, instead of a balancing factor, it just provides a reason for Force toons to take Quarry.
    ___________________________________________________________

    Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
  • magpieuk2014magpieuk2014 Posts: 1,268 Arc User
    I wouldn't be too worried at a revamp unbalancing FC. Kaiz seems to be more in-tune w/ things like dps vs. energy vs. tier trade offs and whatnot- plus powersets under revamp tend to get many tweaks as they happen, and people will def be parsing anything that comes out.

    Fair comment, I think. It's not an easy power to spam as the Energy cost is substantial and the Force set doesn't have an EU (unless I've missed the ranged EU which works via knocks).

    Adding a short CD to Force Cascade would actually work quite well (too well?) as it would synergise with MSA.
  • navar#3536 navar
    navar#3536
         Posts: 117 Arc User
    roughbearmattach said:



    Now, instead of a balancing factor, it just provides a reason for Force toons to take Quarry.

    Wait, does Quarry not go on a cool-down? For some reason I always thought it did, which was why I was taking Unstoppable. Honestly, if Stormbringer didn't go on a cool-down, that would be my first choice. However, I seem to recall Quarry going on cool-down as well. Chances are, I am incorrect, but I just want to be sure.

  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    therealwraiven said:

    Wait, does Quarry not go on a cool-down?

    Only energy forms go on cooldown. You can use Quarry, Night Warrior, Way of the Warrior, Unstoppable
    My guide to Teleios Ascendant
    Epic Stronghold
    Block timing explained
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,742 Arc User
    edited January 2018
    aesica said:


    If I had to wager a guess, this was probably meant to encourage its use as an opening strike, or perhaps to make people more carefully weigh the pros and cons of using it when they want a high burst of damage. I highly doubt it was meant to be the spammable nuke people use it for today, despite the lack of other realistic options in the Force framework. Where there's a will/necessity, there's a way I suppose.

    A long while ago I was mucking around w/ my Impulse AT in the PH and parsing it w/ KM as the passive. I didn't notice a significant dps increase from using FC when KM was up (w/ the energy savings) and Force Blast in between (when KM was disabled), and versus just spamming Force Blast outright w/o FC. Ofc, that was just w/ an Impulse, but it was still pretty sobering to find out.
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • cyronecyrone Posts: 1,028 Arc User
    rtma said:

    Cause someone thought stripping your own passive (Synergy, Kinetic Manipulation) every time you unload a Force Cascade was a 'Good' idea/mechanic... I hope they get rid of that in a Force Revamp, it's pretty much the only thing with that interaction that kills the DPS theme concept.

    To be fair, Kinetic Manipulation didn't exist at the start of the Force Powerset. Field Surge was tagged as an Energy Form for the purpose of 1) overshield (no interaction with PFF at the time of release), and 2) popping off FC
    download_zpsfcg5gnud.jpg
    "There is only one way to support a PFF tank: Send Cyrone lots of money weekly... because he's the only one to successfully be a true PFF Tank." - chuckwolf
  • rtmartma Posts: 1,198 Arc User
    cyrone said:

    rtma said:

    Cause someone thought stripping your own passive (Synergy, Kinetic Manipulation) every time you unload a Force Cascade was a 'Good' idea/mechanic... I hope they get rid of that in a Force Revamp, it's pretty much the only thing with that interaction that kills the DPS theme concept.

    To be fair, Kinetic Manipulation didn't exist at the start of the Force Powerset. Field Surge was tagged as an Energy Form for the purpose of 1) overshield (no interaction with PFF at the time of release), and 2) popping off FC
    Fascinating, I did not know that, regardless I'm curious to see how they will revamp it for Kinetic Manipulation and Personal Force Field to compliment the other set revamps.
    Want to get to know me a bit better, Click me and take a read of My Dragon Profile Page, it's a bit dated but still relevant.

    I take this quote from a review that I agree with.

    "customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
  • chuckwolfchuckwolf Posts: 274 Arc User
    This is the reason I don't usually use Kinetic Manipulation as passive with my force build but rather PFF sure i'm not doing the DPS I should, but by simply choosing the Energy Refraction Advantage on the energy builder and using a cascade every time the bubble "pops" I get the cost discount without my passive suddenly dropping out from under me. and since the bubble for refraction only lasts 15 seconds I'm not really out anything.

    And I miss the days that Field Surge was an energy form also.
    @Powerblast in game
Sign In or Register to comment.