Is this game dead?

nyghtshroude · December 2017

Because it seems like it’s not getting great content. This game needs a revival. We need villain mode - playing as a real villain. Not just Onslaught Villain. This game has so much potential.

theravenforce · December 2017

Yes.

The game is dead, which is why we are having much needed (in most cases), power set expansions and reworks as well as additional powers and ways to build for challenging content and it's also why we have new players knocking around too, as well as Developers who communicate with us on a regular basis.

We do not need a super villain mode in Champions Online. This isn't City of X.

You could easily role-play a supervillain, but most of your time would be spent, gathering resources to employ minions to wreak havoc in and around the city, or you could build a PvP build and go off and "terrorize" heroes who dare to challenge you.

You are right, the game has so much potential.

However, it is necessary to sort out the tools which players use to interact with the game, which is the Powers System...which the Developers are doing.

It is something that has needed to happen for a while now, and whilst not all of the power changes are to everyone's liking...and there may be some questionable choices made...most of them are pretty nice and can be fully appreciated.

There's plenty of content in CO to explore, I don't know of many who have gone through every single mission and completed every zone and side quest there is.

There's always lore hunting to do, if you want, that's fun.

Don't forget...Champions Online is 8 years old, that's pretty old for an MMO, and compared to other current MMO's with larger followers or larger development teams...CO has and is doing pretty well for itself.

sterga · December 2017

The game has very low population, but does well enough that PW still has some developers working on it. Something they tend not to do with games on the chopping block.

If by 'content' you mean missions, then no, the game doesn't get that and I'm not sure if it ever will. Level design takes years of practice to do well and as far as I can tell, there are no experienced level designers working on CO or any new devs practicing it.

The first Everquest is almost 20 years old and there are older MMOs than that. I think we can stop using CO's age as an excuse now.

spinnytop · December 2017

nyghtshroude#9048 said:
This game needs a revival.\

It's been knee deep in a revival for over a year now o3o your post would have made more sense in the past when the game was literally getting no development, but right now it's getting more development than ever.

deathsentry2012 · December 2017

Seems pretty dead to me regarding content..nothing new

theravenforce · December 2017

deathsentry2012 said:
Seems pretty dead to me regarding content..nothing new

I don't mind the current "dead" in relation to content, since we're getting much needed power set reviews, which have all (so far) come with new powers added to the set.

jaazaniah1 · December 2017

Do the people who think it is dead put money into the game, so that there are more resources to make it undead?

avalon · December 2017

The forum does kinda feel dead if you compare it to the other Arc games, but the game itself sure isn't.

flyingfinn · December 2017

If you compare forum activity to the game.
The CoH is alive.....

soulforger · December 2017

deathsentry2012 said:
Seems pretty dead to me regarding content..nothing new

Not sure when the last time you played was, but, we have gotten some small updates in content in recent years. Nothing major, but, it's been something.

Unknown · December 2017

This content has been removed.

legendarylycan · December 2017

yeah, proactive (which villains are) really doesn't work in themepark games - you'd need a sandbox, or at least a game where stuff could be spontaneously generated on the fly by a GM or someone...but not a computer; procedural generation isn't up to the task of that kind of sheer complexity - or it is and the rest of consumer computer technology isn't really advanced enough to give it proper free reign

one of those two

ealford1985 · December 2017

Honestly...I don’t think we survived Bloodmoon

roughbearmattach · December 2017

Nope.
Game isn't dead.

spinnytop · December 2017

gradii said:
A villain will just betray the mission giver NPC and start their own evil plot.

I think it'd be more like there just isn't a mission giving NPC. The mission would come from the computer in your hideout which just contains a bunch of potential evil plans you could engage in. Stuff like robbing a bank, or trying to trap a hero, or stealing a special powerful thingy from a museum or something. Then you go do that but instead of badguy henchmen you would be blowing up security guards and police officers and random civilians - then shortly after the mission starts someone more capable shows up, like Until soldiers and it becomes an actual fight. Then a hero shows up and you have a boss fight against them.

In that way it is technically possible to make villain content that doesn't require anything special like sandbox architecture and that still proceeds the way one would expect villain missions to proceed. Nobody is telling you to do these things, you're just picking one of your own criminal plans to enact. After that it's the same as any other mission, just with a model swap on the NPCs to change them from bad guys into good guys.

This wouldn't even require a "Villain faction" either, these quests could just be available to players since the only thing that makes someone a Villain is engaging in villainous deeds and anyone can just decide to do that - you don't need membership in a faction. They could even make a flipped Nemesis system where if you do these missions you get a Champion chasing after you - random attacks by Until soldiers, Defender randomly showing up and trying to apprehend you, that sort of thing. You could in fact choose to do both good guy missions and bad guy missions on the same character because why not, a super could technically decide to play both sides of the law for maximum personal gain.

These could be daily quests that primarily give Resources, like a nice chunk, and it would essentially be like your character isn't making enough money just being a good guy so they're turning to criminal activities to make some more bucks. It wouldn't be the most in-depth graying of morality ever, but it'd be something.

deathsentry2012 · December 2017

jaazaniah1 said:
Do the people who think it is dead put money into the game, so that there are more resources to make it undead?

I've been a gold subscriber ever since CoH went away.. its great the powersets are getting reviewed, but if no new content, then not much to do with them but to do alerts ad nauseum.. don't get me wrong, the game has great potential and unmatched customization..but if there's nothing NEW to do..then it becomes tedious

draogn · December 2017

jaazaniah1 said:
Do the people who think it is dead put money into the game, so that there are more resources to make it undead?

Companies need to give me a reason to spend money on their product, I'm not just blindly throwing money at them just because. That isn't how it works, they and I aren't friends.

beezeeze · December 2017

This game is not dead. Some people might be unsatisfied by the type/quality of content we have been steadily receiving and so they will declare loudly that the game is dead, but they are wrong.

We got new missions a little over a year ago, a new zone with new dailies, we got multiple event revamps, we got new costumes and vehicles and powers and redone powers and redone ATs and new ATs. Lockboxes SO MANY LOCKBOXES!

soulforger · December 2017

beezeeze said:
This game is not dead. Some people might be unsatisfied by the type/quality of content we have been steadily receiving and so they will declare loudly that the game is dead, but they are wrong.

We got new missions a little over a year ago, a new zone with new dailies, we got multiple event revamps, we got new costumes and vehicles and powers and redone powers and redone ATs and new ATs. Lockboxes SO MANY LOCKBOXES!

Exactly. There has been new stuff. But, if you are looking for something along the lines of a World of Warcraft expansion...you will not find that here. For several reasons, with resources being the number one reason it won't happen like that.

Unknown · December 2017

This content has been removed.

soulforger · December 2017

gradii said:
Really depends what you mean by dead. I would say CO is undead. kinda like a zombie.

I can see that being the case. It kinda does feel that way.

orangeitis · December 2017

Define "dead". Because as of right now, the only definition for "dead" games I currently recognize are games that have shut down. Till that happens, why should any game be considered "dead"?

ikonn · December 2017

This game does have some profitability, otherwise we would not be getting bug fixes, balance passes, or new powers/archtypes.

This game does run on a much smaller budget than many of the newer games we have seen in recent years. That is actually in CO’s favor. It does mean, however, that new (actual) content is introduced sporadically at best. But that is fine with me if it keeps the game running.

jaazaniah1 · December 2017

And if you don't put money into the game they have no resources to work with. Do you prefer to let other player pay for your gaming?

draogn said:

jaazaniah1 said:
Do the people who think it is dead put money into the game, so that there are more resources to make it undead?
Companies need to give me a reason to spend money on their product, I'm not just blindly throwing money at them just because. That isn't how it works, they and I aren't friends.

soulforger · December 2017

jaazaniah1 said:
And if you don't put money into the game they have no resources to work with. Do you prefer to let other player pay for your gaming?

draogn said:

jaazaniah1 said:
Do the people who think it is dead put money into the game, so that there are more resources to make it undead?
Companies need to give me a reason to spend money on their product, I'm not just blindly throwing money at them just because. That isn't how it works, they and I aren't friends.

I personally think keeping a game I love playing alive is reason enough to spend money on it. Not sure about people like draogn. What does he want? What does he mean by reason for keeping it alive? Lots of people play destiny and destiny 2, despite the fact that if you look at the amount of content in those games, CO actually has more content than those two games. And yet, people spend lots of money on those two games. Why? Why pay more into a game with less than pay into a game with more? If content was the reason for spending, destiny and destiny 2 wouldn't have any where near the numbers they have in players. So, there has to be more to it than just content alone. Is it because those games are enjoyable? Not sure, I find I enjoy destiny 2 more than destiny 1 and CO more than those two games. And with the amount of comlaints about destiny 2, you'd expect a far less amount of players. So, again, I do not understand when a person says "give me a reason to spend money." Isn't keeping a game you love alive reason enough? Or, do you want it to shut down? What is more enjoyable, playing the game you love playing, or remembering the days you spent in that game after it shuts down? I for one, want CO to last as long as it lasts, and not shut down anytime soon. Cause, to me, playing the game is more enjoyable than remembering the fun times I had.

spinnytop · December 2017

draogn said:
Companies need to give me a reason to spend money on their product, I'm not just blindly throwing money at them just because. That isn't how it works, they and I aren't friends.

Well they've been pretty steadily giving me reasons to spend money on the game

guyhumual · December 2017

That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die.

sterga · December 2017

The problem with this conversation is too many people treating a soulless corporation run by people who don't care that we exist like it's their friend. Cryptic Studios is here for one thing and that is to make money. If they fail to convince people they should spend money, that is the company's fault for not making a better game or better marketing or whatever else they didn't do well enough. Blaming players for things that are a company's fault doesn't help anyone. Certainly doesn't help Cryptic become a better company or game creator and it definitely doesn't encourage people to spend money.

beezeeze · December 2017

No one should be expected to pay for a product they don't want...however people should not complain about a product they get for free.

themightyzenith · December 2017

beezeeze said:
No one should be expected to pay for a product they don't want...however people should not complain about a product they get for free.

If people are investing their time in a "free" product then they should have the right to inform others if they have found their invested time fun or not.

The producers of this product offer the free option, it's not like these people are freeloaders.

spinnytop · December 2017

I like how these conversations always turn into a corporate board room meeting.

I like what they've been doing with the game, and they keep adding stuff I wanna spend money on so I do. Also I have trouble picturing Kaizerin in a suit being a desk slamming businessmen... mainly cause she's always naked when I see her.

guyhumual said:
That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die.

yeah if you steal the satsui-no-hado and use it to have sick karate battles with Death o3o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIFjlBu3RU0

jonsills · December 2017

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VkrUG3OrPc

beezeeze · December 2017

ima fite yall with karate battles.. try me.

riverocean · December 2017

You have accept CO for what it is. It's a fun way to pass the time with your dress-up doll creations. This sometimes involves beating up bad guys.

soulforger · December 2017

sterga said:
The problem with this conversation is too many people treating a soulless corporation run by people who don't care that we exist like it's their friend. Cryptic Studios is here for one thing and that is to make money. If they fail to convince people they should spend money, that is the company's fault for not making a better game or better marketing or whatever else they didn't do well enough. Blaming players for things that are a company's fault doesn't help anyone. Certainly doesn't help Cryptic become a better company or game creator and it definitely doesn't encourage people to spend money.

No one is blaming the players. All I am asking is what do people mean when they say they need a reason to give it money. Isn't enjoying the game reason enough? If it isn't...than why continue playing in the first place if you do not want to support something that you find fun? This has nothing to do with treating a company like a friend. It's simple logic to me. If I enjoy it, I will give them money. And if they are not enjoying it...than why ask for things that will never happen? Especially since it will not happen due to the lack of resources? I personally give them money, not for new stuff, but, to help keep the game alive. The fact that they do give me new stuff, is a bonus to me. And, it isn't the company's fault if a player isn't interested. The player typically isn't interested due to their personal tastes. A company can't make due for everyone's tastes in something in a single game. To enjoy a game, you got to enjoy what the game gives and presents, not what it doesn't have. CO, compared to other larger MMOs, has a small amount of content, and, unless a miracle happens, that will not change. So, people got to stop asking for more content, and be happy with what is there. This way, when more stuff is added, it is truely a joyous occassion. Which makes a huge difference in how a person enjoys a game, for if you sit there expecting more, but don't recieve that more, than you will not find the game enjoyable.

themightyzenith said:

beezeeze said:
No one should be expected to pay for a product they don't want...however people should not complain about a product they get for free.
If people are investing their time in a "free" product then they should have the right to inform others if they have found their invested time fun or not.

The producers of this product offer the free option, it's not like these people are freeloaders.

True enough. But, what these players typically do is insult the company for things the game doesn't have. Which, is not helpful. And, in truth, if they are not paying anything into the game, than, by the very definition of the term "freeloader", they are indeed freeloaders. For they are basically using the money from others to play a game for free. But, I don't really like insulting people. It is silly to do so for the sake of anything. If you got valid complaints about what is in the game, than complain about those. But, if it is about something you'd like to see in the game, leave that argument out, for, it will most likely not happen. For example, people constantly ask for a Villian mode, where you play as a villian. The devs have stated time and time again, that that will not happen.

markhawkman · December 2017

riverocean said:
You have accept CO for what it is. It's a fun way to pass the time with your dress-up doll creations. This sometimes involves beating up bad guys.

Yes... "sometimes"...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQEMH29XcWg

xcelsior41 · December 2017

soulforger said:

sterga said:
The problem with this conversation is too many people treating a soulless corporation run by people who don't care that we exist like it's their friend. Cryptic Studios is here for one thing and that is to make money. If they fail to convince people they should spend money, that is the company's fault for not making a better game or better marketing or whatever else they didn't do well enough. Blaming players for things that are a company's fault doesn't help anyone. Certainly doesn't help Cryptic become a better company or game creator and it definitely doesn't encourage people to spend money.
No one is blaming the players. All I am asking is what do people mean when they say they need a reason to give it money. Isn't enjoying the game reason enough? If it isn't...than why continue playing in the first place if you do not want to support something that you find fun? This has nothing to do with treating a company like a friend. It's simple logic to me. If I enjoy it, I will give them money. And if they are not enjoying it...than why ask for things that will never happen? Especially since it will not happen due to the lack of resources? I personally give them money, not for new stuff, but, to help keep the game alive. The fact that they do give me new stuff, is a bonus to me. And, it isn't the company's fault if a player isn't interested. The player typically isn't interested due to their personal tastes. A company can't make due for everyone's tastes in something in a single game. To enjoy a game, you got to enjoy what the game gives and presents, not what it doesn't have. CO, compared to other larger MMOs, has a small amount of content, and, unless a miracle happens, that will not change. So, people got to stop asking for more content, and be happy with what is there. This way, when more stuff is added, it is truely a joyous occassion. Which makes a huge difference in how a person enjoys a game, for if you sit there expecting more, but don't recieve that more, than you will not find the game enjoyable.
themightyzenith said:

beezeeze said:
No one should be expected to pay for a product they don't want...however people should not complain about a product they get for free.
If people are investing their time in a "free" product then they should have the right to inform others if they have found their invested time fun or not.

The producers of this product offer the free option, it's not like these people are freeloaders.

True enough. But, what these players typically do is insult the company for things the game doesn't have. Which, is not helpful. And, in truth, if they are not paying anything into the game, than, by the very definition of the term "freeloader", they are indeed freeloaders. For they are basically using the money from others to play a game for free. But, I don't really like insulting people. It is silly to do so for the sake of anything. If you got valid complaints about what is in the game, than complain about those. But, if it is about something you'd like to see in the game, leave that argument out, for, it will most likely not happen. For example, people constantly ask for a Villian mode, where you play as a villian. The devs have stated time and time again, that that will not happen.

To me this top part sounds like blind devotion. For one, you're pretty much saying the only option is to give them money and not ask for anything because resources. I think the dev team is maybe (eh) trying to garner more resources outside of lockboxes through somewhat infrequent QoL fixes, which might be helping with player retention. Personally I feel everyone with a sound suggestion or complaint should voice it. This is not [insert dictatorship here].

nbkxs · December 2017

Except that everything has been ground so much by this point, that it's getting very boring, the only way to keep logging in at all is to take extensive breaks that often span for several months, then replaying the same thing again, get bored in a week, and leave again for 6 months. We need SOMETHING new, it's been well over a year since destroyer, we need a new raid.

Unknown · December 2017

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soulforger · December 2017

gradii said:

I'd prefer more epic lairs. something which isnt a cluster beep of players all fighting the same monster every time.

I'd personally want something that is supstantial and will keep players entertained for a while, not a lair or cosmic that msot people will get bored of quickly. Personally, more zones with more ACTUAL quests would be nice. But, to help keep people wanting to do those quests many times over with more than one character, they would have to have the quests give ACTUAL rewards, not currency, not green gear no one wants, but, rather, things like permanent devices that are bound on pickup, thus, if they want those devices on other toons, they will need to play other toons. They would also have to add some good repeatable quests, so that people would want to come back. Of course, they would also have to give those quests actual rewards, and not just a few tokens for the new token of the month along with a handful or resources that amounts to basically nothing. Of course, these new zones wouldn't be complete with a cosmic of their own and maybe even an apic lair of their own. But, it won't happen unless a miracle happens, and that is something people need to recognize before asking for something, thus, instead of asking for something that would take miracle, ask for something that wouldn't...like...a Force revamp. I think Force is long overdue for a revamp, don't you?

Of course, the only real way to fix the overall issue is if some other company that actually would care for CO to buy either CO from Cryptic, or Cryptic from Perfect World Entertainment. Now that will take a miracle. Cause, who knows how much either will go for in price (other than millions). Or...if there is even another company that would be interested. Sometimes, I wish I was rich, just so I could buy at the very least CO, and thus actually give it the life it and the players want it to have.

Another interesting notion I thought of would be if us players were somehow able to band together and buy CO/Cryptic. But, I do not think that would be possible. XD

xcelsior41 · December 2017

nbkxs said:
Except that everything has been ground so much by this point, that it's getting very boring, the only way to keep logging in at all is to take extensive breaks that often span for several months, then replaying the same thing again, get bored in a week, and leave again for 6 months. We need SOMETHING new, it's been well over a year since destroyer, we need a new raid.

This is literally me. Except it's more for RL reasons but still

spinnytop · December 2017

gradii said:
I'd prefer more epic lairs. something which isnt a cluster beep of players all fighting the same monster every time.

Refresh my memory, aren't you one of the people constantly going on about how content that isn't wildly popular is a failure and should be ignored in future updates? If so, why the sudden change of heart on TA? Only seen you talk smack on it in the past, now it's suddenly the thing you want more of? Join me on a run sometime.

xcelsior41 said:
For one, you're pretty much saying the only option is to give them money and not ask for anything because resources.

Well it is plainly silly to ask people to spend money on something that doesn't exist. My purchasing decisions in the game aren't based on "I'm spending money to get new content" and I'd be surprised really if anybody's purchases were. I see something I want, bucks come out of my wallet. The content is what keeps me logging in so that I will see those things, and have a context in which to use them ( which is required for me to want them to begin with ).

The whole idea of "freeloaders" is dumb in a F2P game anyway because if they didn't want freeloaders they wouldn't have the word free in the genre title. I also doubt that the devs are sitting around waiting for the revenue to increase before they work on more content. They sure didn't do that when they first showed up and in fact what I picture in my head is them working themselves half to death in an effort to make people want to play more because they know that the "want to play" part is what leads to "willing to spend".

The one exception here is catalysts. Anybody who spends 30 dollars on a catalyst is clearly making a donation to the game in the hope that it will lead to more content. There is literally no other possible explanation for paying 30 dollars for 1 more attribute point.

deadman20 · December 2017

We are Champions Online, the Undying!

soulforger · December 2017

xcelsior41 said:
This is literally me. Except it's more for RL reasons but still

Aye, that is me also, but I enjoy making costumes that I don't take long breaks at all. 171 toons, all with 60+ costume slots. It'll take a while to fill them all.

darqaura2 · December 2017

I'm currently playing non-mmos (aka single player games) as they have more story based content. Which is what I'm looking for currently. Pretty much bored of cosmics. That and I recently discovered fightcade, loving playing some older fighting games.

xcelsior41 · December 2017

soulforger said:

xcelsior41 said:
This is literally me. Except it's more for RL reasons but still
Aye, that is me also, but I enjoy making costumes that I don't take long breaks at all. 171 toons, all with 60+ costume slots. It'll take a while to fill them all.

I kind of have to :P, but if I get a chance(and a will to make a new toon, I.E this Double XP weekend) then I'll play for ~a month.

onami · December 2017

The game is not dead, the community however is small and tight knit. Most are very loyal to the game and friendly. (Probably the most friendly community I've come across in any mmo). With that said, most of the new additions to the game in recent are powers, balancing, and items. I took a very long break from the game and recently came back so a lot of things are still new to me as they weren't in the game when I played previously.

Unknown · December 2017

This content has been removed.

nepht · December 2017

nyghtshroude#9048 said:
Because it seems like it’s not getting great content. This game needs a revival. We need villain mode - playing as a real villain. Not just Onslaught Villain. This game has so much potential.

Again its an MMO you play with other people. You set the back story for your character. If you wan't to play the bad guy and randomly duel heroes there is nothing stopping you. Been playing the "bad guy" since 2011.

spinnytop said:
I like how these conversations always turn into a corporate board room meeting.

I like what they've been doing with the game, and they keep adding stuff I wanna spend money on so I do. Also I have trouble picturing Kaizerin in a suit being a desk slamming businessmen... mainly cause she's always naked when I see her.

guyhumual said:
That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die.
yeah if you steal the satsui-no-hado and use it to have sick karate battles with Death o3o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIFjlBu3RU0

MvCi is pretty much The Room of super hero video games at this point.

markhawkman · December 2017

onami#8512 said:
The game is not dead, the community however is small and tight knit. Most are very loyal to the game and friendly. (Probably the most friendly community I've come across in any mmo). With that said, most of the new additions to the game in recent are powers, balancing, and items. I took a very long break from the game and recently came back so a lot of things are still new to me as they weren't in the game when I played previously.

You should talk to that Irwin guy in RenCen. Playing with the giant monsters is fun.

Is this game dead?

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