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DR on resistance?

aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,620 Arc User
edited November 2017 in Builds and Roles
So I always thought there was no diminishing return on resistance, and I remember I tested that in the past.
But after talking about it with a friend and looking at resistance numbers, now it seems there is a (fairly small) diminishing return afterall.

I did some tests with these results.

Build
109 from defense
10 from tank role
19 per defiance stack
Results per defiance stack
Expected 119
You lose 690 (1500) Fire Damage from Blue Beam.
Calculated 1500/690-1=1.1739

Expected 119+19=138
You lose 636 (1500) Fire Damage from Blue Beam.
Calculated 1500/636-1=1.3584

Expected 119+19*2=157
You lose 590 (1500) Fire Damage from Blue Beam.
Calculated 1500/5902-1=1.5423

Expected 119+19*3=176
You lose 551 (1500) Fire Damage from Blue Beam.
Calculated 1500/5512-1=1.7223

Expected 119+19*4=195
You lose 517 (1500) Fire Damage from Blue Beam.
Calculated 1500/5172-1=1.90135

Expected 119+19*5=214
You lose 488 (1500) Fire Damage from Blue Beam.
Calculated 1500/4882-1=2.0737

Expected 119+19*6=233
You lose 462 (1500) Fire Damage from Blue Beam.
Calculated 1500/462-1=2.24675

Just to be sure it's not defiance I also tested with cold resist mods.

Build
100 from defense
50 per cold resist mod
Results per mod
Expected 1
X deals 5378 (10684) Cold Damage to you with Icicle Spear.
Calculated 10684/5378-1=0.986

Expected 1.5
X deals 2149 (5301) Cold Damage to you with Icicle Spear.
Calculated 5301/2149-1=1.466

Expected 2
X deals 1719 (5039) Cold Damage to you with Icicle Spear.
Calculated 5039/1719-1=1.931
Is this something new, or has it always worked like this?

Comments

  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    edited November 2017
    Hm. Hard to say, we could have just failed to notice cuz it's pretty close to rounding errors. Lessee, I grabbed some numbers a while back (file is more than a year old)

    Defense was 443.1, which gave a tooltip value of 104%, and tank role. Damage from blue laser was 705, which adds up to 112.7%. In theory that could be something like 704.1 damage (rounded up) with damage resistance 103.03% (rounded up), but that seems not likely.

    Might turn on combat logging, as I recall combatlog.log actually shows damage to tenths.
  • kamokamikamokami Posts: 1,633 Arc User
    edited November 2017
    It's likely rounding errors. Tooltip numbers round up. Damage values round up or down to the nearest whole number.

    So predicted values based on tooltips will mostly skew towards being higher than actuals.
    Post edited by kamokami on
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,740 Arc User
    Interesting, so there prob is an imposed DR on dmgRes, though not much of one. Nice work on parsing it out.
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
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  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    edited November 2017
    I don't think rounding errors is possible. In the first test I used defiance so there is a lot of rounding errors there, but in the second test I only had rounding errors from the defense stats. I assume r9 ice resist mods are actually 50% and not 49.1%.

    But even assuming the numbers are actually 99.1+49.1*2 that would never come close to an effective 193.1% resistance.
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    It does look like there's DR (and probably has been forever), just addressing why we'd never noticed.
  • kamokamikamokami Posts: 1,633 Arc User
    Here's a test with numbers from the combatlog.


  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    edited November 2017
    Nice to see the DR exponentially grows even with higher numbers.
    The 342% resistance test is also quite interesting since at that point it really starts to become significant, and 342% is not unreasonable at all when you consider AoRP.
    If you take a 10000 base damage hit with 342% resistance, you'd expect 2262 damage but you actually take 2399.

    I 've used some polynomial regression website to find a function that fits the current data points fairly well.
    Effective Resistance = -0.03*Resistance^2 + 1.035*Resistance - 0.01

    And updated a spreadsheet I made a while ago to easily calculate "effective health".
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/tt0gf0rwpv7giyq/mitigation calc.ods?dl=0
    Post edited by aiqa on
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    I wonder if this is the same as the DR on damage, which we notice more because 300-400% damage bonuses are not that rare.
  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    That is possible, should not be that difficult to figure out.
  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    I tested blocking, and it does not have any DR.
    But something else I've found which is interesting, block only works for 83.33% of the normal block resistance for AoE.
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    aiqa said:

    But something else I've found which is interesting, block only works for 83.33% of the normal block resistance for AoE.

    You sure that's true in general? Things like the dino and ape basic attacks are actually small AoEs, and that's a pretty big difference. What block and AoE were you using for testing?
  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    edited November 2017
    Tests against a block with 360% block resist. First hit are unblocked, second are blocked.
    X deals 865 (2252) Electrical Damage to you with Neuroelectric Pulse Generator.
    2252/865-1=1.6034682080924855491329479768786
    
    X deals 391 (4075) Electrical Damage to you with Neuroelectric Pulse Generator.
    4075/2.6034=1565.2198
    1565.2198/391-1=3.003
    
    -----------------------------------------------------
    
    X deals 3401 (7406) Slashing Damage to you with Dragon's Claws.
    7406/3401=2.1775
    
    X deals 547 (5466) Slashing Damage to you with Dragon's Claws.
    5466/2.1775=2510.10883
    2510.1088/547-1=3.5888
    
    -----------------------------------------------------
    
    X deals 2069 (5391) Crushing Damage to you with Arc of Ruin.
    5391/2069=2.6056
    
    X deals 562 (5858) Crushing Damage to you with Arc of Ruin.
    5858/2.6056=2248.2289
    2248.2289/562-1=3.0004
    This is with a default 200% resistance block.
    X deals 2036 (4419) Crushing Damage to you with Annihilate.
    4419/2036=2.1704
    
    X deals 677 (4409) Crushing Damage to you with Annihilate.
    4409/2.1704=2031.3926
    2031.3926/677-1=2.000
    
    -----------------------------------------------------
    
    X deals 1023 (2665) Crushing Damage to you with Arc of Ruin.
    2665/1023=2.6050
    
    X deals 387 (2689) Crushing Damage to you with Arc of Ruin.
    2689/2.6050=1032.2127
    1032.2127/387-1=1.6672
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    edited November 2017
    Well then, never mind about the block resist.
    It seems elusive does block resist.

    So to recalculate the first AoE hit on each block
    (2252/865)/1.2=2.16
    4075/2.16=1878.26
    1878.26/391-1-0.2=3.60
    
    (2665/1023)/1.2=2.17
    2689/2.17=1238.65
    1238.65/387-1-0.2=2.00
    At least it shows block resist does not have any DR.
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