Fix the reward requirement for Eido

qawsada · October 2017

I'm getting really tired and turn off from doing these eido run when the same parasite player take up a zone slot from other players that legitimately wanted to do eido, tag eido, and does absolutely nothing to contribute in the match other than scaling up the health on those green orb. This parasite manage to get at least 2 costume piece drop in these eido runs by doing nothing while those that does the work got the bare minimun. Make obtaining the reward like around 100k or 200k at least like a normal cosmic instead of getting the best reward from Eido by following the old Open Mission tag and afk rule.

Unknown · October 2017

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sergeantmahoff1 · October 2017

Hell, I'd say put the cap at 200k. Eidolon's kind of different from the other cosmics.

kaiserin · October 2017

Actually, I think I can add this back in as the bug causing open missions to occasionally reward items based on player performance against each other was fixed a little while back.

nbkxs · October 2017

I've gotten to the point where if I see these known leeches, I just leave, and try again another time, I'm not going to sit there and carry them while all they do is add dead weight on my shoulders. They know what they're doing, and they just keep doing it anyway. We keep letting them do it by carrying them, I'm done carrying them.

qawsada · October 2017

That good to hear and I hope this get implemented soon. When a parasite got a score of 8618 by tagging Eido and getting a costume drop, then I hope this nonsense would never happen again.

ph0toncann0n · October 2017

I am 100% on board with this. Eidolon is a VERY difficult fight that requires effort from each player. Absolutely no one should be allowed to AFK doorsit it, then take the rewards from players who earned it. I've seen that happen way too many times now. Thank you for the swift reply Kaiserin; fingers crossed that any changes that may go into it makes a difference for future fights.

Unknown · October 2017

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pantagruel01 · October 2017

I will note that ccers tend to get quite low scores at Eidolon at the moment.

roughbearmattach · October 2017

Yeah, orbs stay CCed for seconds, not minutes.

If you have CCer, you will need to deliver some damage and/or heal/rez.

avianos · October 2017

This please, finally someone brought up this

Do something to punish the damn leechers, the situation has been disgusting, you get players who push 100% of their role for success and then random scumbags who use their energy builder then leave and only return to collect their prices (names won't be dropped, you know who they are)

and please make it so they WON'T get kill count for eidolon perks while leeching neither, all the OM in warzone are currently exploitable for leechers

spinnytop · October 2017

Also please remove all rewards obtained from the leecher. We all know who we're talking about. Some system where it goes back and checks the score they had and removes the reward if the score was too low would be nice. Hell delete his account based on multiple instances of griefing.

Unknown · October 2017

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avianos · October 2017

You may be joking but Leeching is a bannable offense which goes against the game's rules

Unknown · October 2017

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avianos · October 2017

gradii wrote: »

Then why not report those people for breaking the rules instead of asking for game "features" which tend to backfire on people who aren't leeching at all?

So don't fix the obvious E X P L O I T in the code and instead go on a witch hunt for each leecher individually and see their population increasing when the news spread more about it and while current "GM" do absolutely nothing to punish them

GOT IT

spinnytop · October 2017

gradii said:
Then why not report those people for breaking the rules instead of asking for game "features" which tend to backfire on people who aren't leeching at all?

Because hopeful dreams and special promises don't get results. Systems do.

monaahiru · October 2017

pantagruel01 said:
I will note that ccers tend to get quite low scores at Eidolon at the moment.

Also Healers mostly healing team. It's difficult for Healer to deal damages to Eido.
But leecher just standing and doing nearly nothing would not get any reward or Eido kill perk.
So terrible on looking them getting Eido costumes and selling those in silly price in Trade channel.

Unknown · October 2017

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roughbearmattach · October 2017

gradii said:

Other games don't use these oft backfiring anti leeching systems, and do fine. on top of that they rarely have problems with leechers. HMM it's almost as if people wanted to participate in content in those games, I wonder what CO could learn.

Those games usually have a gate to keep real low performers out, anyway--gear requirements, mission requirements, or level requirements.
(And a level 40 requirement in CO is almost not even a requirement, at all.)

pantagruel01 · October 2017

gradii said:

Other games don't use these oft backfiring anti leeching systems, and do fine.

The usual way of preventing leeching is by making it so you have to be in a team (with a team leader that can invite and kick) to actually fight the boss (instanced content) or to have a chance at a drop (open-world content). This is far more reliable than any automated system for detecting contribution can be. However, it comes with a cost that a lot of people will simply never be able to participate in top end content.

Unknown · October 2017

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pantagruel01 · October 2017

gradii said:
Not for open world content they don't. and people should be rewarded for PARTICIPATION not for contribution. without rewards for participation people who can't do enough to contribute but tried will simply stop trying and not want to bother getting better .

Most games don't have open world endgame content (other than PvP games, where attempting to leech will get you ganked). As for rewards, you've got it backwards: without rewards for getting better, a significant group of people will not want to bother getting better.

ordinaryplayer · October 2017

#1 ... Just please don't break it for those cases where the scorecard simply doesn't count well for classes/role/ect. Or who switches character mid stream to swap for the vital role and save the day.

#2 .. I didn't think the orbs scaled, and if they're off away leeching like you claim, then the orbs still don't scale with them not there.. So the leecher logic doesn't pan. Leaving zone slot issue, and any can just wander into QWZ during a run and eat a slot. Overall things not scaling to true player size seem to be the issue?

#3 Since "club too easy" always points it out this logic. It's working for a hand full of people .. so .. It's fine/ Its good enough.

PS: Do we want to admit this person may have been chased of into leeching by certain people/attitudes? If they were told to 'stand on the hill' (relatively) you got your wish its your fault, you made the leech [no not you .. that other person]. If they're still playing (even badly) [or chased off], at least be honest to that point, rather than create boogymen to drum up forum support and break things further.

^FYI: Devils advocate played, but there may be more that a little truth to the chased off part.

Unknown · October 2017

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pantagruel01 · October 2017

gradii said:
There should be rewards for getting better and most games do this too, but the reward is usually more frequent clears and thus more loot.

That's a reward for someone getting better. It's not particularly personal.

shadowolf505 · October 2017

The reward for getting better at endgame helps the team succeed at whatever they are fighting. As we all know, Eido and the cosmics are team based battles and it is required of each person to contribute something for that success to happen.

Unknown · October 2017

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roughbearmattach · October 2017

ordinaryplayer#2642 said:

PS: Do we want to admit this person may have been chased of into leeching by certain people/attitudes? If they were told to 'stand on the hill' (relatively) you got your wish its your fault, you made the leech [no not you .. that other person]. If they're still playing (even badly) [or chased off], at least be honest to that point, rather than create boogymen to drum up forum support and break things further.

^FYI: Devils advocate played, but there may be more that a little truth to the chased off part.

I do not "want to admit this". If people criticized you for messing up the run, the response is to figure out what to do, not become a leech.

warcanch · October 2017

roughbearmattach wrote: »

PS: Do we want to admit this person may have been chased of into leeching by certain people/attitudes? If they were told to 'stand on the hill' (relatively) you got your wish its your fault, you made the leech [no not you .. that other person]. If they're still playing (even badly) [or chased off], at least be honest to that point, rather than create boogymen to drum up forum support and break things further.

^FYI: Devils advocate played, but there may be more that a little truth to the chased off part.

I do not "want to admit this". If people criticized you for messing up the run, the response is to figure out what to do, not become a leech.

Plenty of us offer suggestions to help these people. I know I've received plenty of advice when I play something "new" from people who know. However, after offering advice and suggestions numerous times and the players continue to seemingly ignore it, well, either one stops offering or gets mad at the player. Nature of the beast.

roughbearmattach · October 2017

I got tons of advice when I complained about how I couldn't do dino initially, how terrible it was, etc.

I took the advice, and then started having success. Took more advice, had more success, etc.

spinnytop · October 2017

ordinaryplayer#2642 said:
PS: Do we want to admit this person may have been chased of into leeching by certain people/attitudes? If they were told to 'stand on the hill' (relatively) you got your wish its your fault, you made the leech [no not you .. that other person]. If they're still playing (even badly) [or chased off], at least be honest to that point, rather than create boogymen to drum up forum support and break things further.

^FYI: Devils advocate played, but there may be more that a little truth to the chased off part.

Well the person I was talking about is a PVPer who has literally never even tried to do anything but leech at cosmics. You can do some mental gymnastics to figure out how I created him like some batman/joker story, but I don't think you'll get very far.

markhawkman · October 2017

roughbearmattach said:

ordinaryplayer#2642 said:

PS: Do we want to admit this person may have been chased of into leeching by certain people/attitudes? If they were told to 'stand on the hill' (relatively) you got your wish its your fault, you made the leech [no not you .. that other person]. If they're still playing (even badly) [or chased off], at least be honest to that point, rather than create boogymen to drum up forum support and break things further.

^FYI: Devils advocate played, but there may be more that a little truth to the chased off part.
I do not "want to admit this". If people criticized you for messing up the run, the response is to figure out what to do, not become a leech.

So much this.

The contribution threshold is pitifully low. Much lower than an individual's "fair share".

roughbearmattach · October 2017

In all the Cosmic fights, and event OMs, you can generally DPS or heal for a while, then simply leave the area of the boss's biggest AoE, and wait for the reward safely. The exception is when a Cosmic run is super fast--a rare event, but sometimes happens (strangely enough) with Dino.

spinnytop · October 2017

I wonder what would happen if they made it so you only get points after a Cosmic's health is past a certain point. For example if only dps on the Dino in the last 20% of its health counted for score ( and then obviously adjust the threshold as needed ). Suddenly "do a bit then just wait" turns into "do nothing and then jump in at the last moment"? Would be neat to see how that actually plays out... run is going fine if a bit slowly, Dino hits 20%, then suddenly we can't pass anymore checks ^_^ Would certainly go some distance to making it so that everyone who wants rewards has to actually be contributing, and at the very least means people can't just go afk.

Score decay might have the same effect as well. i.e. your score is constantly decreasing by a certain amount, so you have to maintain a certain level of contribution - if you just stop fighting at some point your score will decay back to 0. For dps if they set this decay so that someone doing a reasonable amount of dps for someone in cosmic starting gear could beat it and hit the threshold it would at least ensure that someone who spends the whole fight doing nothing doesn't get a reward.

roughbearmattach · October 2017

I was just pointing out that it isn't actually tough to meet the minimum score, assuming that you block the big attacks.

jaazaniah1 · October 2017

I like this approach. People should have to contribute for the whole fight. The only problem I can see is a long drawn out cosmic (i.e. going for an hour plus). Sometimes I put in a lot of good contribution in a fight, but then get called away for dinner or the like. I park my character out of combat and hope there will be a reward later if the combat finally succeeds. It would still be nice to get some credit in a situation like this.

spinnytop said:

Score decay might have the same effect as well. i.e. your score is constantly decreasing by a certain amount, so you have to maintain a certain level of contribution - if you just stop fighting at some point your score will decay back to 0. For dps if they set this decay so that someone doing a reasonable amount of dps for someone in cosmic starting gear could beat it and hit the threshold it would at least ensure that someone who spends the whole fight doing nothing doesn't get a reward.

spinnytop · October 2017

Hm, certainly a problem... maybe there's a solution to that?

Perhaps if there were actually two scores that it kept track of, let's call them the Endurance Score, and the Intensity Score.
The Intensity Score has the decay that I mentioned, while the Endurance Score does not ( it would basically be our current scoring system ). If you hit the threshold on either score, then you get rewards - if you fail both, you don't.

What makes the Endurance Score different from what we have right now is that it would have a much higher threshold than the Intensity Score, and even our current live threshold. It would have a threshold that you would need to be actively pounding away on the Cosmic for a good amount of time to achieve... something like 10 minutes of reasonable dps output. Its only real function would be to serve as a safeguard for exactly your situation to ensure the people who put in the time, and were actively fighting during that time, get a reward.

We could even get clever with the Endurance Score and have a second threshold ( the minimum Endurance threshold let's call it ) on it that dynamically updates according to the length of the fight. This threshold would be one that you need to beat in order to get credit for beating the Intensity Score threshold. i.e. if you beat the Intensity threshold, but you do not beat the minimum Endurance Threshold, then you still don't get rewards. This would keep someone from jumping in at the very last minute and getting rewards. It wouldn't be particularly strict, it would be just high enough to ensure that someone can't game the Intensity Score to get full rewards for 30 seconds of effort. The minimum Endurance threshold would basically calculate itself according to the duration of the fight and be set a bit lower than [ duration x reasonable score per time ] divided by some number.

So now the people who will get rewarded:
- A player who was there for a long time reasonably contributing and had to leave ( or just got fatigued )
- A player who kept up a reasonable level of contribution for the duration that the cosmic was in combat

People who will not get rewarded:
- A player who did not reasonably contribute the majority of the time the cosmic was in combat and was also not contributing reasonably for a certain duration of time
- A player who tries to jump in at the last moment and game the Intensity Score

legendarylycan · October 2017

can the engine support that kind of a scoring system, though? specifically, the dynamically updating endurance portion

spinnytop · October 2017

shadowfang240 said:
can the engine support that kind of a scoring system, though? specifically, the dynamically updating endurance portion

It can dynamically update boss resistances n stuff like that so I dunno, maybe.

avianos · November 2017

Haven't played Eidolon 1 month now, has the scoreboard issue with the leechers been fixed yet?

Any stealth patch fix perhaps?

Fix the reward requirement for Eido

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