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Muni/DB Build, and questions about DPS hybrids

doomaflatchidoomaflatchi Posts: 13 Arc User
in Builds and Roles
Hey, all! So, I'm looking for two things here: first, I'm looking for a Cyborg Ninja-themed Munitions & Double Blade build with Night Warrior (pistols only in Munitions preferred, but not required). But in addition to that, the second (and honestly more important) thing is: I'm looking to better understand how ranged/melee hybrid DPS characters actually work in practice. When playing, what role does each play, and if you have both melee and ranged on your bar, when do you use one or the other? How do they intermingle? How do you properly use them together, and how do you build towards a synergy between them?

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    pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    edited September 2017
    For the most part, ranged/melee hybrids don't work, though you can have setups where your primary dps is melee and you're using ranged effects for utility (for example, my haymaker build uses burst shot).
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    kamokamikamokami Posts: 1,633 Arc User
    similar to Panta's answer above......essentially you will want your main attack power to be either melee or ranged and for your toggle form's main buff to match that attack power. You can then take other powers to debuff for it.

    For example, you could take 2gun mojo with the adv for your main damage power to get benefit from staying close to your target along with chilled form. And then you could take something like Shred as your melee power to help debuff for 2gun mojo.
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    flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,752 Arc User
    edited September 2017
    The other way to mix is to use Melee as primary/boss dps, but Ranged for AoE since it tends to have wider coverage. In general, though, its better to specialize in one or the other- unless ur just playing a hero that uses either role 'for fun' and cause it fits their theme.

    Here's one way to build for DB + Muni (favoring mostly DB/melee):

    (Unnamed Build) - Freeform
    v2.3.1-25

    Super Stats
    Level 6: Strength (Primary)
    Level 10: Dexterity (Secondary)
    Level 15: Constitution (Secondary)

    Talents
    Level 1: The Master (Str: 10, Dex: 10, Con: 10, Rec: 8)
    Level 6: Covert Ops Training (Str: 3, Dex: 3, Con: 3, Int: 3)
    Level 9: Acrobat (Dex: 5, Con: 5)
    Level 12: Physical Conditioning (Str: 5, Con: 5)
    Level 15: Martial Focus (Str: 5, Dex: 5)
    Level 18: Quick Recovery (Con: 5, Rec: 5)
    Level 21: Impresario (Dex: 5, Rec: 5)

    Powers
    Level 1: Gunslinger
    Level 1: Blade Tempest (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 6: Night Warrior (Rank 2, Rank 3, Silent Running)
    Level 8: Form of the Tempest
    Level 11: Steadfast
    Level 14: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 17: Eye of the Storm (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 20: Dragon's Wrath (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 23: Burst Shot (Taking Names, Off Your Feet)
    Level 26: Resurgence (Rank 2)
    Level 29: Holdout Shot (Stim Pack, Open Wound)
    Level 32: Thunderbolt Lunge
    Level 35: Parry (Rank 2)
    Level 38: Rebirth
    Adv. Points: 33/36

    Travel Powers
    Level 6:
    Level 35:

    Specializations
    Strength: Swole (2/3)
    Strength: Physical Peak (3/3)
    Strength: Brutality (2/2)
    Strength: Juggernaut (3/3)
    Warden: Fortified Gear (3/3)
    Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
    Warden: Upper Hand (2/3)
    Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
    Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
    Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
    Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
    Vindicator: Mass Destruction (2/3)
    Mastery: Warden Mastery (1/1)

    Gears mostly for Dex, w/ some Con and Rec.
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
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    doomaflatchidoomaflatchi Posts: 13 Arc User
    Okay, those points make sense to me, I think. Thanks, guys!

    @flowcyto Thanks for the build! I really like the concept of range for AoE trash clearing and melee for single-target DPS. A few questions about the build that you posted: First off, why Strength as the PSS instead of Dex? Is it just for the Specialization options? Why Parry instead of Fluidity (the reduction stats of fluidity look better on paper)? With Parry, is it worth taking The Elusive Monk? Is Dragon's Wrath the single-target spender? If so, would the rotation on a boss generally be Holdout Shot > Blade Tempest combo > Dragon's Wrath? And why Eye of the Storm? Is it just for supplemental melee-range AoE?

    Again, much appreciated! Your aid is always valued.
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    flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,752 Arc User
    Fluidity doesn't have the normal 200+% dmgRes boost that normal blocks give. Its generally not a good pick unless it'll bring you over 100% dodge. Elusive Monk is okay for dodge tanking, but it does lower ur melee dmg by 10% while its slotted, so I'd usually avoid it.

    Str PSS is good for melee that wants to be durable w/ Con SS, since Juggernaut scales w/ Con, and it still boosts dps via Brutality and/or Overpower. Your main stat doesn't necc need to be the one you make the PSS- as long as its a SS.

    And yea, DW is the main ST attack for that build, and you'd use Blade Tempest to setup Shredded and for cheap filler. EotS is for normal AoE, since it can be used for dps (keep re-channeling it after a few sec) or for turtling (fully maintain to ramp up the shield).
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
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    doomaflatchidoomaflatchi Posts: 13 Arc User
    @flowcyto Okay, I think I follow. Burst Shot isn't an AoE though, right? And do you think this build concept would fit better with Single Blade instead? I came across this build that you did a while ago:

    (Unnamed Build) - Freeform
    v2.3.1-25

    Super Stats
    Level 6: Dexterity (Primary)
    Level 10: Intelligence (Secondary)
    Level 15: Constitution (Secondary)

    Talents
    Level 1: The Specialist (Dex: 10, Con: 10, Int: 8, Rec: 10)
    Level 6: Covert Ops Training (Str: 3, Dex: 3, Con: 3, Int: 3)
    Level 9: Acrobat (Dex: 5, Con: 5)
    Level 12: Healthy Mind (Con: 5, Int: 5)
    Level 15: Coordinated (Dex: 5, Int: 5)
    Level 18: Quick Recovery (Con: 5, Rec: 5)
    Level 21: Impresario (Dex: 5, Rec: 5)

    Powers
    Level 1: Gunslinger
    Level 1: Reaper's Caress (Rank 2, Cleaving Strikes)
    Level 6: Night Warrior (Rank 2, Rank 3, Silent Running)
    Level 8: Form of the Tempest
    Level 11: Cut Down (Nailed to the Ground)
    Level 14: Molecular Self-Assembly
    Level 17: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 20: Two-Gun Mojo (Rank 2, Bullet Spray)
    Level 23: Reaper's Embrace (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 26: Resurgence (Rank 2)
    Level 29: Holdout Shot (Stim Pack)
    Level 32: Parry (Rank 2)
    Level 35: Smoke Bomb (Rank 2)
    Level 38: Lock N Load (Rank 2)
    Adv. Points: 33/36

    Travel Powers
    Level 6:
    Level 35:

    Specializations
    Dexterity: Gear Utilization (3/3)
    Dexterity: Power Swell (2/2)
    Dexterity: Deadly Aim (3/3)
    Dexterity: Expose Weakness (2/2)
    Warden: Fortified Gear (3/3)
    Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
    Warden: Upper Hand (2/3)
    Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
    Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
    Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
    Vindicator: Focused Strikes (2/3)
    Vindicator: Mass Destruction (3/3)
    Mastery: Dexterity Mastery (1/1)

    How would this compare with the above in terms of play feel? And would you still recommend TGM with Bullet Spray over Bullet Hail for the ranged AoE?
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    flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,752 Arc User
    edited September 2017
    Although SB can be good, DB is more straightforward than SB. You can take either approach, though.

    TGM's AoE adv is a tight cylinder; if ur using ranged AoE for wider coverage then that's not really taking advantage of that aspect.

    If I were to use one of the Muni AoE's, I'd either go w/ Bullet Hail w/ its shielding adv for a mix of defense and dps, or Lead Tempest for easy & large pbAoE. Its a bit redundant to use them and still take Eye of the Storm, though, but its up to you.
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
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    doomaflatchidoomaflatchi Posts: 13 Arc User
    @flowcyto I definitely see what you mean on the EotS redundancy. Doesn't Lead Tempest have an inherent miss chance, though? Is that ever problematic? And could you please go into a bit more depth on what you mean by 'straightforward'? I'm not sure I understand the play style differences between SB/Dex/Int/Con vs DB/Str/Dex/Con.
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    flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,752 Arc User
    edited September 2017
    Not really; the miss chance happens further out, and even then LT reaches far wider than most AoE. Those targets that are further out are still taking dmg whereas w/ most other AoE it wouldn't even reach them to begin with. AoE reach isn't everything, though; just depends on the situation..

    SB is about building to 5x Bleed and rupturing it w/ Reaper's Embrace (at least that's the standard way of playing it). Its not complicated, but DB is even more basic- where you put up Shredded w/ Blade Tempest and mostly use DW after that (w/ charged DW also giving you extra energy via Rush).

    The stat diff isn't powerset-specific; it just depends on the rest of the build and ur priorities. STR/Dex/Con w/ Dex focus works well when using an MA form and Steadfast as the Energy unlock (both scale w/ Dex), whereas DEX/Int/Con has a Dex focus, but still some Int for MSA as the EU instead. Str PSS in general is a good dps+defense mix for melee, whereas Dex PSS is more for pure dps w/ lower defense.
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
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    doomaflatchidoomaflatchi Posts: 13 Arc User
    @flowcyto Gotcha! I think a Dex focus on this character appeals to me more, partially for the concept, but mainly because I already have a Str-based DPS character, and I like each of my toons to fill a somewhat unique niche. With that in mind, how does this look?

    (Unnamed Build) - Freeform
    v2.3.1-25

    Super Stats
    Level 6: Dexterity (Primary)
    Level 10: Intelligence (Secondary)
    Level 15: Constitution (Secondary)

    Talents
    Level 1: The Specialist (Dex: 10, Con: 10, Int: 8, Rec: 10)
    Level 6: Covert Ops Training (Str: 3, Dex: 3, Con: 3, Int: 3)
    Level 9: Acrobat (Dex: 5, Con: 5)
    Level 12: Healthy Mind (Con: 5, Int: 5)
    Level 15: Coordinated (Dex: 5, Int: 5)
    Level 18: Quick Recovery (Con: 5, Rec: 5)
    Level 21: Impresario (Dex: 5, Rec: 5)

    Powers
    Level 1: Gunslinger
    Level 1: Blade Tempest (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 6: Night Warrior (Rank 2, Rank 3, Silent Running)
    Level 8: Form of the Tempest
    Level 11: Smoke Bomb Lunge (Sudden Strike)
    Level 14: Molecular Self-Assembly
    Level 17: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 20: Lead Tempest (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 23: Dragon's Wrath (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 26: Resurgence (Rank 2)
    Level 29: Holdout Shot (Stim Pack, Open Wound)
    Level 32: Parry (Rank 2)
    Level 35: Smoke Bomb (Rank 2)
    Level 38: Lock N Load (Rank 2)
    Adv. Points: 35/36

    Travel Powers
    Level 6:
    Level 35:

    Specializations
    Dexterity: Gear Utilization (3/3)
    Dexterity: Power Swell (2/2)
    Dexterity: Deadly Aim (3/3)
    Dexterity: Expose Weakness (2/2)
    Warden: Fortified Gear (3/3)
    Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
    Warden: Upper Hand (2/3)
    Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
    Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
    Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
    Vindicator: Focused Strikes (2/3)
    Vindicator: Mass Destruction (3/3)
    Mastery: Dexterity Mastery (1/1)
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    flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,752 Arc User
    I think that you misunderstood me. Both setups would gear mostly for Dex (ie. use a Dex focus). Just because its not the PSS doesn't mean you can't make it ur main stat. Many builds actually use a setup where their main stat is a 2ndary SS (SSS), not the PSS, as many spec options have choices that scale w/ SSS's besides.

    That said, yea that version of the build could work out fine.
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
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