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Telekinesis Changes Discussion Thread

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  • avianosavianos Posts: 6,028 Arc User
    edited June 2017
    move the stun to an advantage; it isn't needed on the base power, especially since getting caught in one doesn't stun anyway - at best, it would stagger or disorient

    Absolutely NOT
    Crowd Control is the MAIN sell for this power
    remove it and you will get a underwelming damage power with 10 seconds Cooldown

    Did I mention this power already has 10 seconds CD!?
    Why is this not acknowledged with the "energy cost balance"?​​
    Post edited by avianos on
    POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergiesPlaying since 1 February 2011 98+ Characters (7 ATs, 91 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
  • roughbearmattachroughbearmattach Posts: 4,784 Arc User
    I also have to chime in on TK Maelstrom. It is a super useful click-stun with AoE, and both of my controllers use it. The damage is a less important aspect.

    Heck, if you really wanted to play with advantages, you could add an advantage that removes the stun and reduces cost/charge time/CD, maybe ups the damage.
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  • darqaura2darqaura2 Posts: 932 Arc User
    edited June 2017

    I also have to chime in on TK Maelstrom. It is a super useful click-stun with AoE, and both of my controllers use it. The damage is a less important aspect.

    Heck, if you really wanted to play with advantages, you could add an advantage that removes the stun and reduces cost/charge time/CD, maybe ups the damage.

    As an advantage that would be great. Alternatively, (and as a counterpoint view) the stun would be the first thing I would ask to go if they are looking into reducing costs. My controller characters have other abilities to handle control. My other characters who take it take it for the AOE damage.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited June 2017
    Could make TK Maelstrom's chance to stun scale with how many stacks of Ego Leech you have, 20% per, then add an advantage ( maybe 1 pt? ) that makes it always 100%. Are advantages factored into the cost in that way? i.e. "This power gets to cost less cause you have to spend more points on it to break a dependency"?
  • avianosavianos Posts: 6,028 Arc User
    edited June 2017
    spinnytop wrote: »
    Could make TK Maelstrom's chance to stun scale with how many stacks of Ego Leech you have, 20% per.

    Then you would kill the CC synergy theme OUTSIDE the TK powerframe
    Just gonna mentiona build that i use: Earth Manipulator build

    even though now the rocks are going to be jello​​
    POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergiesPlaying since 1 February 2011 98+ Characters (7 ATs, 91 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 7,065 Arc User
    edited June 2017
    aesica said:


    The tooltip is a bit misleading. It also seems to stack/refresh when refreshing or consuming mental states, even though it doesn't seem to say that anywhere. In light of this, it's a bit better than I initially thought--these details are important.



    Still, I'd say it's really only better than FotT if:

    • Your crit is too low to get critical hits reliably. (But it's dex-based though, so...)
    • You plan on making an off-the-printing-press Freeform AT. (No outside damage-dealing powers--how boring and unoriginal!)
    • You're okay with the weird/annoying (most likely bugged) interaction it has with the id blades aura, which causes you to have id blades stuck in your hand 100% of the time (even out of combat, just idling) if the aura is in one of the "always on" slots.
    ​​
    Few things, the solution to the visual bug you are seeing is to NOT take ID Blades Advantage on either Ego Form or ID Mastery. Activating that + Mental Discipline has an unintended side effect, which makes you animate and spawn dual blades which never go away.

    Yes, this is a bug and should be rectified.

    Considering I can stack Ego Leech at a much better rate than getting crits...and I still obtain focus stacks at the same rate...it's purely down to personal choice whether someone takes FoTT or Mental Discipline.

    For simplicity and staying within the set, Mental Discipline cannot be beaten IMO.

    There is absolutely nothing wrong with making a TK Blader...who uses TK Blades only...going TK Blades + MA is more common I'd have thought anyway, so again...personal preference.

    You can have high crit chance and still go for a more reliable stacking method...a la Ego Leech..so again...personal preference.

  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 7,065 Arc User
    edited June 2017
    As regards TK Maelstrom...

    The energy cost it has can easily be made manageable by making use of:

    - Cost discount gear
    - INT
    - Good amount of REC
    - All of the above.

    If anything has to be changed on this power...to make the energy cost less severe, it could do with a reduction in damage.

    Personally I am very much against ripping core abilities out of powers and advantaging them, it's a very bad thing to do in my eyes.

    I also don't see a massive cost issue with TK Maelstrom, however, without using it in set...it can likely present a problem. The energy cost it currently has would probably be more justifiable if it had it's base area of effect increased.

    To be fair, I've removed TK Maelstrom from my current build and replaced it with which I look forward to using. (I still need to tweak the build so I'm happy with it!)
  • avianosavianos Posts: 6,028 Arc User
    You know what? If you guys are going to COMPLETY RUIN TK Maelstorm
    then keep it as it is, my CC Earth build already has INT as primary stats and can affort

    removing the stun into ADV and/or making the stun scale with Ego Leech are both horrible suggestions because
    1. sacrifing adv points for a effect this power had in the first place, and im sorry but using this power as pure DPS instead of CC is a waste
    2. Limits the power exclusively on TK powerframe and won't blend in theme builds (for my case is earth, for others may be magic or something else)

    Why is nobody mentioning the 10 Sec cooldown this power already has for some reason, it's like the CD penatly isn't enough already to balance the power

    Did Cooldowns suddenly don't count for a power's balance?
    Aren't energy costs and CDs suppoce to be both important for balance scales?​​
    POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergiesPlaying since 1 February 2011 98+ Characters (7 ATs, 91 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
  • aesicaaesica Posts: 2,537 Arc User
    edited June 2017
    Few things, the solution to the visual bug you are seeing is to NOT take ID Blades Advantage on either Ego Form or ID Mastery. Activating that + Mental Discipline has an unintended side effect, which makes you animate and spawn dual blades which never go away.
    It doesn't seem to have anything to do with the advantages though. Right out of the box with no advantages or anything, activating Mental Discipline while using the id blades aura in an "always on" slot (or even a "combat" slot while in combat) produces the permanent id blades. Mental Precision, on the other hand, has no ill effects.

    The key difference between "the 0 point advantage" and "the aura" is that, when activating Mental Discipline with the aura, you spawn 2 blades, one in each hand. With the advantage, you only spawn 1 blade in one hand, even though all of your powers behave as expected by displaying dual blades afterward.

    Conclusion: Mental Discipline is only trying to despawn the single blade version of the visuals after the activation animation sequence is done.​​
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  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 7,065 Arc User
    edited June 2017
    aesica said:


    It doesn't seem to have anything to do with the advantages though. Right out of the box with no advantages or anything, activating Mental Discipline while using the id blades aura in an "always on" slot (or even a "combat" slot while in combat) produces the permanent id blades. Mental Precision, on the other hand, has no ill effects.



    The key difference between "the 0 point advantage" and "the aura" is that, when activating Mental Discipline with the aura, you spawn 2 blades, one in each hand. With the advantage, you only spawn 1 blade in one hand, even though all of your powers behave as expected by displaying dual blades afterward.



    Conclusion: Mental Discipline is only trying to despawn the single blade version of the visuals after the activation animation sequence is done.​​

    Oh right, we're talking about different things...my bad.

    Bug: Taking ID Blades Advantage on Ego Form or ID Mastery causing Mental Discipline to automatically spawn two Ego Blades which do not vanish.
  • chimerafreekchimerafreek Posts: 383 Arc User
    It would be neat if, since dual ego blades aura is becoming a thing, that Master of the Minds FX became an Aura as well.
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  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    The primary existing use of TK maelstrom is CC; I'd rather not be forced to convert to thunderclap.
  • aesicaaesica Posts: 2,537 Arc User
    Oh right, we're talking about different things...my bad.

    Bug: Taking ID Blades Advantage on Ego Form or ID Mastery causing Mental Discipline to automatically spawn two Ego Blades which do not vanish.
    That explains the mixup, however:

    Playing around with what you mentioned a bit, they both seem to be different ways to trigger the same bug. Both the aura and the two forms with the id blade avantage are sources for triggering the dual id blades effect, which Mental Discipline isn't properly disposing.

    I should add though that the permanent id blades effect might be desirable by some people. Maybe not now, but sometime in the future, a variant of the aura which keeps them in the hands 100% of the time might be something people may be interested in.​​
    (Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    avianos said:


    Then you would kill the CC synergy theme OUTSIDE the TK powerframe

    Just gonna mentiona build that i use: Earth Manipulator build



    even though now the rocks are going to be jello​​

    Did you read past what you quoted?
  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    Bug:
    The second damage tick from the 3rd hit from Ego Weaponry, and the Rupture from TK Lance, are not affected by resistance penetration effects such as a DUC, NW or Detect Vulnerability.
  • kallethenkallethen Posts: 1,576 Arc User
    I copied one of my TK builds (which is based on man-of-light's old Dream Star build) to the PTS the other day. It's a mix of ranged TK with some healing and using Seraphim as a passive. I reselected powers with small tweaks (for instance, since TK Assault was moved to T3, I took TK Strike which replaces it on T1). I kept all her superstats the same and with the same gear (Ego/Dex/Con). I do think I selected some talents that put a little into Rec for the updated energy unlock, but otherwise no major changes.

    Overall, she handled awesome.

    Telekinetic Strike - This fills in my Ego Leech building spot very well. The advantage for the Stress debuff is nice too. Didn't try Siphoning Strikes (she has other self-heals). I really like having a Ranged Combo power. Seems like for Ranged it's always Blasts or Maintains or an occasional Click (which often feel underwhelming). I hope we see more Ranged Combo powers.

    Telekinetic Barrage - This felt like a pretty good AoE attack that lets me stack Ego Leech when I'm facing a mob instead of single target (when I'll probably stick to TK Strike).

    Telekinetic Eruption - A little sad to see it get a cooldown, but it's short so I don't mind too terribly. I usually used it before to get the charged buff anyways. Plan to use the defensive buff advantage as well.

    Telekinetic Lance - The new advantage is alright. I'm not sure how much it truly helps, but more crit chance is never a bad thing.

    Ego Surge - The advantage's nerf doesn't bother me too much. Her TK Lances hit like a truck without it anyways.

    Ego Reverberation - I thought I would miss having this scale off Ego, buuuuuut... New version provides some energy over time instead of 3 second bursts, I like the more even flow. I also tend to run in Support role, which helps a lot with energy needs (before and after changes). However, I did try her out in Hybrid mode as well, and still managed well (with Barrage draining the battery a couple of times but it bounced back quick).

    Mental Precision - Does it's job as a ranged TK form. Having my form give energy now is a plus.

    So, my verdict for ranged TK is a thumbs up. Glimmer may actually DPS better. (I'm still not sure about melee TK, have to test it a bit more).​​
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  • rileymarks1rileymarks1 Posts: 48 Arc User
    I don't mind Mental Precision scaling with Dex, but after numerous tests with various ranged only tk powers, Chilling Form stacks incredibly faster than Mental Precision. Perhaps Mental Precision could stack whenever you apply or attempt to apply a Mental State. That way it should stack at least on par with Chilling Form.
  • avianosavianos Posts: 6,028 Arc User
    Telekinetic Maelstorm
    Corrected max charge for this power from 2 seconds to 1.83.
    Slightly lowered damage to bring down the cost of this power.
    That's good, I hope the the cost is more down to earth now

    Damage really doesn't matter for this power anyway, it's all about AoE CC
    New Power: Ego Blade Pandemonium
    Ultimate
    Toggle
    Deals damage in a small area around you.
    Can be used alongside other attacks.
    Critical Strike chance increases for every stack of Ego Leech.
    Ranking up this power causes the blades to deal less damage individually, but causes the power to hit more frequently.
    Advantage: Snares targets.
    Advantage: Additional threat.
    So Toggle ultimates are becoming a thing​​
    POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergiesPlaying since 1 February 2011 98+ Characters (7 ATs, 91 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
  • raighnraighn Posts: 2,339 Arc User
    Suggestion
    Mental Discipline/Precision - keep them as one form, make them stack a new dex scaling form buff that buffs both melee/ranged like Frenzy does.


    Personally I'm opposed to making TK scale from Dex... but I know you're never going to change your mind on it so no point in even trying...
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  • spordeliaspordelia Posts: 460 Arc User
    The VFX for Ego Leech looks very nice. Pretty much what I've always wanted for a Psi Aura.
  • riveroceanriverocean Posts: 1,690 Arc User

    I'm gathering from context that it's 2% Crit chance per Leech stack? Even in-set that's a massive nerf. It serves no purpose, either. It just takes away a good, universal option and makes it worse even for thematic sets using Leech. - By around 50% effectiveness with average con statting (NM usually delivers around 20% Crit chance). Also hoses tank damage, and screws over Con builds in general.

    ~Bluhman

    We've all known a nerf to Ego Surge has been coming for at least two years. I'm not saying I like it, but I'm far from surprised.

    That being said, DEX based TK builds (range or melee) crit and build up Leech stacks super fast now. Ego Surge is still a good AO for those builds. I've tested it both melee and ranged TK blades builds and am pleasantly surprised by how good the changes have been overall. Nobody likes a nerf, but in this case the nerfs are balanced out by a huge series of buffs the TK set has received overall. YMMV.

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  • avianosavianos Posts: 6,028 Arc User
    edited June 2017
    Live: BUG: Lance Rain can no longer rapture Ego Leech

    and the power is still using TK Lance artwork instead of unique icon


    my game crushed while testing the power

    EDIT: My game crashed again while charging TK Lance​​
    Post edited by avianos on
    POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergiesPlaying since 1 February 2011 98+ Characters (7 ATs, 91 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
  • avianosavianos Posts: 6,028 Arc User
    Live: Bug: Darkness -> Soul Vortrex - Sould Drain ADV

    The stacks of Dependecy are applied to your own self, on the Debuff row
    It can stack high

    IZ3RTTZ.png

    The Depedancy debuff is called from Soul Vortrex is tagged as Ebbing Lifeforce

    z8fHHH5.png
    ​​
    POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergiesPlaying since 1 February 2011 98+ Characters (7 ATs, 91 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 7,065 Arc User
    avianos said:


    The Depedancy debuff is called from Soul Vortrex is tagged as Ebbing Lifeforce



    z8fHHH5.png​​

    On this note...

    Dependency's heal has always been called Ebbing Lifeforce on PTS and LIVE, this hasn't changed...since they were brought online. Although it would help clear up stuff if it was called Dependency.
  • sanguinevipersanguineviper Posts: 451 Arc User
    Alright, so I spent 2 hours trying to do anywhere near the damage of my live build. And it's not happening with any of the current pass. It's a lot more than my initial expectation of a 25% loss, it's more around a 40-50% dps loss.

    1. Loss of 15% dps from removal of EBB debuff.
    2. Loss of 10-15% dps from EBB no longer being viable as primary rotation filler due to loss of debuff and stacking leech, and doing less damage beside that.
    3. Loss of ~10% dps from TK annihilate doing less damage now (bug?) and having a longer charge time.
    (The most I managed to get out of TKA on pts was peaking at 20k per hit-rupture, on live it averages about 24k per hit-rupture. This leads me to believe it has definitely lost damage somewhere besides the 15% EBB debuff, given that the patch notes state it has increased damage twice.)

    Snark never dies.
  • sanguinevipersanguineviper Posts: 451 Arc User
    Alright, so I spent 2 hours trying to do anywhere near the damage of my live build. And it's not happening with any of the current pass. It's a lot more than my initial expectation of a 25% loss, it's more around a 40-50% dps loss.

    1. Loss of 15% dps from removal of EBB debuff.
    2. Loss of 10-15% dps from EBB no longer being viable as primary rotation filler due to loss of debuff and stacking leech, and doing less damage beside that.
    3. Loss of ~10% dps from TK annihilate doing less damage now (bug?) and having a longer charge time.
    (The most I managed to get out of TKA on pts was peaking at 20k per hit-rupture, on live it averages about 24k per hit-rupture. This leads me to believe it has definitely lost damage somewhere besides the 15% EBB debuff, given that the patch notes state it has increased damage twice.)

    Snark never dies.
  • sanguinevipersanguineviper Posts: 451 Arc User
    Alright, so I spent 2 hours trying to do anywhere near the damage of my live build. And it's not happening with any of the current pass. It's a lot more than my initial expectation of a 25% loss, it's more around a 40-50% dps loss.

    1. Loss of 15% dps from removal of EBB debuff.
    2. Loss of 10-15% dps from EBB no longer being viable as primary rotation filler due to loss of debuff and stacking leech, and doing less damage beside that.
    3. Loss of ~10% dps from TK annihilate doing less damage now (bug?) and having a longer charge time.
    (The most I managed to get out of TKA on pts was peaking at 20k per hit-rupture, on live it averages about 24k per hit-rupture. This leads me to believe it has definitely lost damage somewhere besides the 15% EBB debuff, given that the patch notes state it has increased damage twice.)

    Snark never dies.
  • sanguinevipersanguineviper Posts: 451 Arc User
    Alright, so I spent 2 hours trying to do anywhere near the damage of my live build. And it's not happening with any of the current pass. It's a lot more than my initial expectation of a 25% loss, it's more around a 40-50% dps loss.

    1. Loss of 15% dps from removal of EBB debuff.
    2. Loss of 10-15% dps from EBB no longer being viable as primary rotation filler due to loss of debuff and stacking leech, and doing less damage beside that.
    3. Loss of ~10% dps from TK annihilate doing less damage now (bug?) and having a longer charge time.
    (The most I managed to get out of TKA on pts was peaking at 20k per hit-rupture, on live it averages about 24k per hit-rupture. This leads me to believe it has definitely lost damage somewhere besides the 15% EBB debuff, given that the patch notes state it has increased damage twice.)

    Snark never dies.
This discussion has been closed.