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Forums > Home› Champions Pen and Paper RPG

So is the original Teleios still around or is it just all clones now?

sigmaseven0sigmaseven0 Posts: 714 Arc User
in Champions Pen and Paper RPG
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Comments

  • bulgarexbulgarex Posts: 2,310 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    Well, the answer to your question depends on what you mean by "original." Jakob Stroessen, the man who would become Teleios, was born with a powerful intellect but a stunted, sickly body. When he unlocked the deepest secrets of genetic engineering, he used them to build a physically and mentally perfect body, transferred his consciousness and memories into it, and destroyed his original body. (He no longer answers to his birth name, and almost no one knows who he once was.) Teleios can repeat this process, in a manner similar to how Mechanon uploads himself into his new bodies, making him effectively immortal; although there's no official note of Teleios having already done so on any particular occasion.

    The "Teleioclones" in CO are similar-looking duplicates programmed for absolute loyalty to the "true" Teleios. It's unclear whether they also possess all his knowledge and superior intellectual and physical traits.
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  • bulgarexbulgarex Posts: 2,310 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    Although that's not an unreasonable assumption, this bit of lore pulled from the old CO Wiki would seem to suggest that isn't or wasn't always the case:

    Experiment Results - Teleioclones

    This latest batch of Teleioclones is already proving far more capable then the last batch. I've even been able to leave some key experiments in their care. However, I am concerned that they may have a bit too much of a sense of ego. True, they are based on my perfect pattern, so it is only natural that they have a strong sense of their perfected natures, but I made them to follow orders. They live and die by my command, and they should be satisfied with that. And I am starting to tire of their incessant complaining and egotistic comparisons among themselves. Still, it's unlikely that I made a mistake in their genetic engineering, so this may just be a phase in their social adaptation.

    -Teleios

    Perhaps there are "generations" of Teleioclones, each one "improved" as per their maker's definition, as he gained experience in crafting them. It may be that Teleios only provides them the knowledge and skills they require to fulfill the tasks he made them for. Teleios might even deliberately make his clones inferior to him in some way, to maintain his own sense of superiority.
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  • sigmaseven0sigmaseven0 Posts: 714 Arc User
    This thread answers all my questions.
    Thank you. :)
    PVP is starving without rewards

    1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
    2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
  • bulgarexbulgarex Posts: 2,310 Arc User
    You're welcome, sigmaseven0. I'm glad you got what you were looking for. :)
    gradii said:

    Well she's not exactly a normal teleioclone, more of a repurposed special experiment set loose unto the world of heroes for some devious purpose she is completely unaware of.

    I'm toying with the idea of her unknowingly copying powers from other supers she encounters to be "recovered" at some point by teleios, and figuring out who she is and stopping him would be a major part of her story.

    Ah, a Teleio-she-clone. That in itself raises interesting possibilities.

    And it's far from unprecedented for Teleios to let one of his creations out into the world, unmonitored (apparently but not really), for a purpose it's unaware of. Since it's not necessary early on to define what that purpose is, it makes sense to leave it nebulous until you hit on just the right thing the satisfy you.

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  • bulgarexbulgarex Posts: 2,310 Arc User
    bulgarex said:

    He no longer answers to his birth name, and almost no one knows who he once was.

    I should amend the above. Teleios's PnP character sheet lists Jakob Stroessen as his "secret identity," so he must still use the name in some context. Possibly in relation to the many biological research companies and environmental groups he owns or has interests in.
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  • bulgarexbulgarex Posts: 2,310 Arc User
    His PnP background text says he uses a number of false identities for the various interests he holds. That character sheet "Secret ID" notation might just be something added to round out Teleios's Complications (an element of Hero System) without really thinking the implications through.
  • squirrelloidsquirrelloid Posts: 869 Arc User
    idk, fwiw my headcanon is that the original teleios dies at the end of MI crisis. (Otherwise there'd be no reason for Viper to suddenly start dealing with Moreau - they already took Teleios in after his defeat in Canada. The story only works if there is no Teleios to cooperate with).

    So the OV contact and AT lair is all clones of Teleios. And while they might have his intellect, they don't necessarily have all his memories.
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  • squirrelloidsquirrelloid Posts: 869 Arc User
    gradii said:

    squirrelloid said:

    idk, fwiw my headcanon is that the original teleios dies at the end of MI crisis. (Otherwise there'd be no reason for Viper to suddenly start dealing with Moreau - they already took Teleios in after his defeat in Canada. The story only works if there is no Teleios to cooperate with).

    So the OV contact and AT lair is all clones of Teleios. And while they might have his intellect, they don't necessarily have all his memories.

    Teleios most definitely would have mental backups to put into new clone bodies, sort of like in the movie The Sixth Day.

    So while he may not remember the monster island crisis where he was defeated, he's basically the same guy.
    See, that's vastly less interesting to me. Change is what makes fictional worlds interesting - the kind of stasis that implies is just boring.

    (Rather than TA, I was hoping they'd do a 'Clone war' story where we intervened in an inter-clone skirmish to decide who the true successor of Teleios was.)
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  • bulgarexbulgarex Posts: 2,310 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    squirrelloid said:

    idk, fwiw my headcanon is that the original teleios dies at the end of MI crisis. (Otherwise there'd be no reason for Viper to suddenly start dealing with Moreau - they already took Teleios in after his defeat in Canada. The story only works if there is no Teleios to cooperate with).

    So the OV contact and AT lair is all clones of Teleios. And while they might have his intellect, they don't necessarily have all his memories.

    Well, as per Moreau's back story, VIPER has a long-standing business arrangement with him. Moreau worked directly for them for years, and when he wanted to pursue his manimal-making project VIPER helped him set up new facilities, including on Monster Island, in exchange for "consultation" services and cooperating with them on certain projects. VIPER is so vast, it makes sense for them to have more than one bio-tech supplier. OTOH Teleios has never been exclusive in his business dealings -- he's contracted with nearly everyone who's anyone in the supervillain field at one time or another. He has immense wealth and multiple secret bases around the world, so he has no need for VIPER to "take him in."

    Mind you, any encounter that seems to be with Teleios could have actually been with one of his clones... if that serves the long-term needs of a story. Kind of like Dr. Doom's "Doombots."
  • bricedaurybricedaury Posts: 14 Arc User
    In my mind- Teleios has always been a clone, of Malachite- Does Scott Bennie have the rights to that character? Why was it never purchased by DOJ?
  • bulgarexbulgarex Posts: 2,310 Arc User
    Scott would be best to answer that last question himself, and perhaps he will at some point. ;) Teleios and Malachite are similar in several ways, and fill much the same role in their respective versions of the Champions Universe. Their backgrounds are quite different, though. Perhaps Steve Long (former Line Developer at Hero Games) just preferred Teleios; kind of like the former CU had Archimago in the role of "Archlich," but Steve preferred Takofanes.
  • bricedaurybricedaury Posts: 14 Arc User
    Yes, well- and this is personal opinion, mind you- but Steve Long made a lot of bad decisions for the IP based on his personal preferences. Malachite had class and was original, Teleios is just a cheap knock-off IMHO.
  • bulgarexbulgarex Posts: 2,310 Arc User
    You absolutely have the right to your opinion, and many Champions fans would agree that Steve made some bad decisions; although not necessarily "a lot," and probably not all the same ones. ;)

    Personally, I like that Teleios appears driven to achieve perfection in part as a rejection of the physical deformity, and scorn of his theories by the scientific community, he once suffered under. Malachite was just born and grew up superior to almost everyone else, which I find less compelling. YMMV of course.

    OTOH because they are so similar, for your own PnP games you can easily combine features from both of them for the kind of character you like. In my own games I use Teleios with his official background, but grafted several of Malachite's gimmicks onto him.
  • bricedaurybricedaury Posts: 14 Arc User
    Sounds good- what you do with those characters is sorta what I would do with the system if I had the chance to actually get a game going- I would use the best (IMO) parts of 4th, 5th, and 6th mashed together to come up with a system that was 'just right' for me- now I really need to sit down and go through the editions to determine EXACTLY how I would do that...
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