Dragon's Wrath in PvP.

darkdiablo · May 2017

Hey, guys. Have you seen how much Dragon's Wrath is used by melee PvPers now? Lately builds with this power became FoTM builds, just like Ebon Ruin back in the day. Literally everyone is running around with Dragon's Wrath, Dragon's Uppercut, Trauma stun and especially DPS passive in one build. The reason to this is the insane penetration Dragon's Wrath gives. 50% off the whole damage resistance. That means the more damage resistance you have, the worse experience you're going to have against the one wielding that power. Do you feel what am I leading to? The penetration needs nerf. I feel like DW would make a use out of just, say, 20-25% damage resistance penetration. Somehow the penetration got nerfed in PvE, but still shines in PvP. FoTM should cease to exist, and this fix/nerf/rework/whatever you call it would help with it.

To @kaizerin

notyuu · May 2017

First of all, it's not a flat 50% penetration... Arona who has "only" 210% resist [at maxium defiance stacks] takes more damage from a DW hit than the Knight.. who has 300%, if it was a flat 50% the reverse would be a case

Secondly, reduce the defpen.. and out comes dragon's claw as the "new" must have PvP murder power

Third, Maneuvering/Footwork in PvP plays as big a part as how you're set up... but if you want to go hard core PvP I guess you could just cheese it with LR.

darkdiablo · May 2017

notyuu said:
Secondly, reduce the defpen.. and out comes dragon's claw as the "new" must have PvP murder power

Um... Nope, simply because it has to crit to deal some damage. Considering most PvPers take healing strength over critical chance, it won't be as hard. DW, however, deals alot of damage even without crits.

notyuu · May 2017

gregz77173 said:

notyuu said:
Secondly, reduce the defpen.. and out comes dragon's claw as the "new" must have PvP murder power
Um... Nope, simply because it has to crit to deal some damage. Considering most PvPers take healing strength over critical chance, it won't be as hard. DW, however, deals alot of damage even without crits.

Dragons Wrath with the advantage maxed out deals roughly 200 more damage than Dragons Claws, where as at rank 3 it deals slightly less than Dragon's Claws...literally the only thing DW has going for it in terms of PvP is the defpen.. you strip that out comes the claw.

darkdiablo · May 2017

notyuu said:
Dragons Wrath with the advantage maxed out deals roughly 200 more damage than Dragons Claws, where as at rank 3 it deals slightly less than Dragon's Claws...literally the only thing DW has going for it in terms of PvP is the defpen.. you strip that out comes the claw.

Still won't be OP. Penetration =/= additional severity.

soulforger · May 2017

Please, for the love of all that is holy...STOP ASKING FOR NERFS BECAUSE OF PVP STUFF.

Unknown · May 2017

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soulforger · May 2017

pandoraslockbox said:
Lol

No offense, but noobz always cry nerf, and game companies always nerf things to cater to nooobz. Comparing DW to Ebon Ruin? Seriously? Dragon's Wrath is fine. Not everyone uses it. I actually think it's weak because it only does like 7-8k and you have to charge it up within 10 feet. Most PvPers have like 14k-16k health. Learn 2 play.

Most pvpers also have high defense, even with the defense pen on DW, it still amounts to low damage.

darkdiablo · May 2017

soulforger said:
Most pvpers also have high defense, even with the defense pen on DW, it still amounts to low damage.

Are you for real now? How's getting 8k by DPS on charge and 2k on tap while running through low damage (I had 109% resistance)? Also such change would pretty much affect only PvP, because DW got penetration nerf in PvE already.

darkdiablo · May 2017

pandoraslockbox said:
Lol
No offense, but noobz always cry nerf... Learn 2 play.

Says the one who wants devices and boundaries to be removed, and Imbue to be buffed. You have no single idea about this game's balance so you're not the one to be whitey knight against someone wanting to fix the broken power.

pandoraslockbox said:
Not everyone uses it..

Now that's where you're mistaken so badly. You clearly don't PvP enough lately to see all the PvPers using it. I'm not going to point it out here, since it's against the forum's rules.

imthenightmare · May 2017

afaik im the only person with DW/stun/off passive so therefore i'm the entirety of copvp

soulforger · May 2017

gregz77173 said:

soulforger said:
Most pvpers also have high defense, even with the defense pen on DW, it still amounts to low damage.

Are you for real now? How's getting 8k by DPS on charge and 2k on tap while running through low damage (I had 109% resistance)? Also such change would pretty much affect only PvP, because DW got penetration nerf in PvE already.

Find someone with high defense, hit them with it, come back here and tell me you still did somewhere near that 8k.

darkdiablo · May 2017

soulforger said:
Find someone with high defense, hit them with it, come back here and tell me you still did somewhere near that 8k.

Well, the guy that hit me had DUC and MA damage core, but hey. Without that it'd be 5.5k, soo it's still really OP.

darkdiablo · May 2017

pandoraslockbox said:
My friend Dragon's Claw uses DW & offensive passive too.

Devices are for nooobz and the boundaries are annoying. I'm hardly going to listen to someone talk about balance who qq's about Dragon's Wrath. Imbue is good but I want it to be better. STFU NOOB.

Dragon's Claw is actually more powerful because it boosts severity by 50%. Get the heck outta here with your tears. XD

Dragon's Claw is only powerful if you got crits, as I was saying. Considering people are using healing cores mostly, they don't hit too much with it. Yes, we got Ego Surge, but you can avoid it. Dragon's Claw needs good charges to deal damage with, DW doesn't. Boundaries are made some the opponent run somewhere like a dumazz, also ringout is a win too. It'll always be, whether you cry about it or not. Imbue is already powerful. You just want it to be on par with Ego Surge, which is broken as well.

That said, I see you still know nothing about balance. I've seen all of your suggestions and they all got no point. Try to build up points for your suggestions and then I'll probably listen to you. But now? Nah

soulforger · May 2017

gregz77173 said:

soulforger said:
Find someone with high defense, hit them with it, come back here and tell me you still did somewhere near that 8k.
Well, the guy that hit me had DUC and MA damage core, but hey. Without that it'd be 5.5k, soo it's still really OP.

5.5k isn't OP in the grand scheme of things actually.

darkdiablo · May 2017

soulforger said:
5.5k isn't OP in the grand scheme of things actually.

Considering I had 109% DR and it kinda is

Unknown · May 2017

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darkdiablo · May 2017

pandoraslockbox said:
Get some skill.

You say that as if you got one

pandoraslockbox said:
Danny, fight Dragon's Claw and then tell me he sucks. Whether he sucks or not has nothing to do with this thread, idiot.

Danny's defeated Claw so many times, and he didn't have to use UR, just that precious DW. If you compare 1 guy using all Dragon skills here, DW one is gonna wreck in PvP the most because of how OP it is.

pandoraslockbox said:
I wasn't "crying" about the boundary in duels. I see you're just an idiot who gets mad about 8k crits.

Sure you wasn't, you cried about it every time you got ringout loss. Also no other power in PvP deals as much damage in that small period of time. Not even DC. Also personal offense doesn't make you seem any better, so try to learn how to talk to people and then people will like you. Atm you're just a lil weenie

Unknown · May 2017

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darkdiablo · May 2017

pandoraslockbox said:
Look who's talking about learning how to talk to people. Now you're just making things up. You don't know me, and not once have I complained about ring-outs. I always say good game when I get rung out. That isn't the reason why I want the boundary to be removed, not that I'd expect someone who complains about an underpowered skill to understand.

Just because Danny didn't use boom rawr to beat DC doesn't make DW overpowered. How would you even know Danny's wins and losses? You just said I cry about being rung out, which is bull. That tells me you don't know anything, and it makes you seem like some kind of groupie like 1012 trying to brag about your boys and about how bad they beat me or whatever.

Me and Danny are good pals, and I do watch his duels quite often. Also, DW is underpowered? Don't tell me you're serious right now, because most PvPers use melee with DW now. I've seen you complaining about alot of stuff. From ringouts and devices to "Funny how one needs manipulator to beat me". I'm gonna throw off my manners and say you got rekt by descrediting yourself in a big load of CO videos, and live. That said, there's no point to argue with you because you know nothing about this game, thus your statements are invalid.

Unknown · May 2017

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darkdiablo · May 2017

pandoraslockbox said:
Whatever, nuub. Getting attacked by 11 people is not "rekt." What if PvPers are using DW because they're tired of using boring PvP builds?

They're tired of using boring PvP builds and decided to use another boring PvP build? No logic there.

pandoraslockbox said:
Yes, devices are a noob tactic. It should be build vs. build. I've never complained about ring-outs; you don't know what you're talking about. You can't kill most players with an 8k crit. Why not use void shift/tractor beam like everyone else does?

If you got 8k damage on players, it's OP as hell. There's no any other power that does that much damage, except Haymaker. But then again, Hay is 2 seconds charge, which is alot, which can be countered. That's where your points fall again.

pandoraslockbox said:
The build I used to fight shrimp was not meant to fight someone with Manipulator. I beat him with sonic arrow and typhoon but he left the game after he died 7 times in a row. That dumb brat is weak, but you wouldn't know because you sit on the sidelines like a cheerleader for people like Danny. Stop complaining about weak powers and get good.

> Says "Get Good"
> Has an excuse like "This build isn't meant to fight -something-"
> Says "Get Good" again

Like, seriously?

Anyway, we can duel 1 vs 1, I'll wreck you like one of my french girls, be sure for it

kamokami · May 2017

Dragon's Wrath works the same way in PvP and in PvE. It cuts final resistance in half. It's been OP in PvE ever since its advantage got fixed to buff base damage instead of buffing the severity layer.

Regardless of this thread and all the tears on both sides of the argument, it won't be nerfed at the moment because Martial Arts powersets are not under review at the moment.

Also regardless of this thread and all of the tears, you can definitely expect it to get nerfed once Martial Arts powers are under review....which usually coincides with the launch of a new AT.

Nothing that's said here will impact the above so everyone can just calm down and enjoy their DW while it lasts.

pantagruel01 · May 2017

kamokami said:
Dragon's Wrath works the same way in PvP and in PvE.

Though NPCs rarely have as much resistance as PCs (Fire and Ice and NPCs with Defiance are the only ones that really compete with tankish PCs, most cosmics are more on a par with high end DPS).

darkdiablo · May 2017

kamokami said:
You can definitely expect it to get nerfed once Martial Arts powers are under review....which usually coincides with the launch of a new AT.

Yep, I realize it. I just want to make sure they do it with MA rework

Unknown · May 2017

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Unknown · May 2017

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imthenightmare · May 2017

i'd just use burning chi fist, crit sev is capped at 130% or something so no point in using DC when i already have 120%

darkdiablo · May 2017

Took you long enough to figure a post out with more excuses. 8k in OP against high resist people, because it's pretty close to UR damage on players. Not even range type PvP builds deal that much damage, except for FC, which is easy to counter.

pandoraslockbox said:
Wow... You're such an idiot... you clearly have no understanding of balance in this game. Dueling won't prove anything that you've said in this thread. I'm retired from PvP, but when I do play it's for fun and not to fight arrogant trolls like you.

Hey, you say you're the pruh PvPer yourself. You're talking about such a dumb rebalance things that'd put this game into chaos even more. We don't need this. Also DC isn't as OP, because tryhard PvPers don't even need focus for DW to wreck, as well as crit chance (except for Ego Surge duration, which you can avoid). DC, however, requires crits.

That said, you can't do a jack but you're saying you were wrecking back in the day (which you didn't do, oh my!). You're calling everyone caring about this game's balance noobs, but you can't figure out anything better. So please, leave this thread and quit calling on people without doing something worthy, it's not making you look any better.

Unknown · May 2017

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darkdiablo · May 2017

pandoraslockbox said:
Took me long enough? I have better things to do than to always reply to idiots on the Internet.

Yet you keep replying. A smart person would ignore me, so you totally don't seem like one

pandoraslockbox said:
Patching DW isn't going to do anything positive, it's just going to make it so there are less viable builds.

Not really. It'd make it on par with the other Dragon attacks. And with DW nerfed I also want Dragon's Bite to be buffed a bit, it'd be great then, since Bite is the most underperforming dragon skill used for utility only. We need more non-bleed single blade stuff for sure.

Unknown · May 2017

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spinnytop · May 2017

pandoraslockbox said:
Oh, don't worry, I already plan to ignore you and your dumb suggestions... but I'll do it when I'm ready and not to impress insolent noobz like you. Dragon's Wrath and Dragon's Bite are fine... but chances are Cryptic will listen to all the crying and make stupid changes just to stop all the complaining.

Well I see this thread went in the expected direction. Hai Luci! o/

darkdiablo · May 2017

pandoraslockbox said:
Oh, don't worry, I already plan to ignore you and your dumb suggestions... but I'll do it when I'm ready and not to impress insolent noobz like you. Dragon's Wrath and Dragon's Bite are fine... but chances are Cryptic will listen to all the crying and make stupid changes just to stop all the complaining.

You'll never ever kill someone with Dragon's Bite in PvP if they're tough enough. DW, however, is the strongest MA power without pre-building. Even tank can use this and win a tank fight like a god, while unarmed, claws, single blade tank users will have a very little chance of winning such fights.

Unknown · May 2017

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darkdiablo · May 2017

pandoraslockbox said:
So, basically, you want to make it so martial arts will be even worse in PvP. Great. 9_9

"Even worse"? I'm sorry, what? How is buffing the weakest single target Dragon attack is making it worse? Or how is toning down the ridiculos penetration is making it worse? DW is overperforming. I know it, you know it, everyone around here knows it. You just don't want to accept it, though in fact it's the strongest melee spammable PvP move.

darkdiablo · May 2017

And as I said. Dragon's Uppercut would use some buff, too. It's only strong on DPSes, sadly. And in tank builds, it's used along with DW, their -primary- attack, while DU is just used for some fall damage, which isn't even that much.

Dragon's Wrath in PvP.

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