Disable devices in hero games, duels, and team duels

lucidity · March 2017

This will balance the game more and force people to actually know how to build. =P

opalflame · March 2017

Yes please!

Unknown · March 2017

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Unknown · March 2017

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zemmax · March 2017

lol u mad

catstarsto · March 2017

pandoraslockbox said:
This will balance the game more and force people to actually know how to build. =P

I agree with gradii, you can make those terms before the fight. But otherwise devices work as intended, the burden of ones build is to overcome your opponent, not to try and reshape him through the devs...thats cheap. Thats like being in a poker game and telling someone they cant use a certain type of card they have to play...and getting the dealer to shape the game for your benefit. Your build should be able to overcome devices to begin with. But I think I know where this is coming from:

^the tazer evice makes you wiggle for a sec, but while using it your opponent cant attack during duration. I ve used it and it doesnt sink much energy nor is anymore then taunt tbh...like the foil raygun...yes i use that too during pvps! : 3

Unknown · March 2017

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rtma · March 2017

catstarsto said:
thats cheap. Thats like being in a poker game and telling someone they cant use a certain type of card they have to play...and getting the dealer to shape the game for your benefit.

Except their is a difference, in poker you follow a strict guideline on how to play, everyone has that statistical chance on receiving certain cards and combining them, while Dueling in CO their are alot of other variables at play, like lag, devices, different powers, stats, gear, mods, timing etc, half of those aren't cheap, value wise.

Unknown · March 2017

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Unknown · April 2017

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kajkr · April 2017

I agreed with at least an option to disable devices. In my opinion hero games and duels should be about the builds, not who has more money to throw at their opponent to win.

catstarsto · April 2017

pandoraslockbox said:
Penny that doesn't work in hero games. Try again.

You are going about hero Games the wrong way; heres your problem: No matter how good you are, skills, gear, solid tank or massive dps....in Hero Games it means little if you queue it solo, a pug is fresh meat! What you are up against are people who team together, train together and have a strategy worked out together. Like like a raptor hunting party they are after the easy to kill ones who focus on their lures and phantoms, then corner you from multiple angles and begin to prey upon you for their score. The devices arent actually what tips it in their favor, they are to taunt you and cause you to panic or get angry and make mistakes. Taunts exist in some power sets, but only work on the npcs...but there are other means to breaking down people, by attacking their confidence and train of thought.

...this is why im working to gather people away from the farmers, and help gear up and train people to take on these guys, I have tactics to counter their game, they work, and ive been beating them and shaking their confidence lately when i bring out CatStar! >: 3

rtma said:

catstarsto said:
thats cheap. Thats like being in a poker game and telling someone they cant use a certain type of card they have to play...and getting the dealer to shape the game for your benefit.
Except their is a difference, in poker you follow a strict guideline on how to play, everyone has that statistical chance on receiving certain cards and combining them, while Dueling in CO their are alot of other variables at play, like lag, devices, different powers, stats, gear, mods, timing etc, half of those aren't cheap, value wise.

What I meant was, i consider it cheating if you have to have the game changed in your favor, in order to defeat someone. Thats why i show my teeth when someone tells the devs to nerf something...it comes off as they dont want to put in the work to get past a challenge so they remove the person/s ability to be a challenge, giving the nerf herder the advantage. Not very nice!

Unknown · April 2017

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catstarsto · April 2017

pandoraslockbox said:
I don't agree with you. Devices imbalance the game and make it unfair. The advantage doesn't go to the "nerf herder." The device whore should be able to compete without them if they are really worth their salt.

...was that a challenge?

can I introduce to my friend mr thunder?

..how about mr lightening??

soulforger · April 2017

Devices don't unbalance the game. That would be no different than saying defensive passives unbalance the game, or AoRP, or AoPM, or Teleport, or Gear, or...etc. I could go on and on about the "op" things in the game. Most devices are not about who had the most money, its about who had the most farm, and for most, that's a lot of farming. Many people would argue that gear doesn't play a major role, but many would. But, it is proven that gear does infact play an important role in the game. Take off your gear before you pvp, see how long you last. Protip: You'll die.

For some, their build includes devices. I know plenty of people that use becomes all the time in every situation instead of their normal powers. Those becomes are part of their build. CCers use CC devices, those devices are part of their build.

And yes, I could give you examples of why Defensive Passives unbalance the game, alone with the two Auras, and teleport. But, truth be told, the motto of a game is "Use every tool at your disposal to defeat the target." For some, that means cheating, for others that means anything goes, for the fool hardy, that means crying for nerfes because they can't win. Obviously, you fall into the third category.

Remove devices? You might as well remove gear and passives. Make it about true skill instead of who stacks their stats the best.

Edit: I forgot, the biggest thing that makes duels last longer than neccassary (or any fight for that matter) is self heals. Maybe pvpers need to stop using those.

kajkr · April 2017

soulforger said:
Devices don't unbalance the game. That would be no different than saying defensive passives unbalance the game, or AoRP, or AoPM,

You can pick the powers without having to open your wallet for the devices.

soulforger said:
Most devices are not about who had the most money, its about who had the most farm, and for most, that's a lot of farming.

So you're saying you can farm Ice Grenades without using money?

soulforger said:
Many people would argue that gear doesn't play a major role, but many would.

I've never seen someone dumb enough to claim that gear plays no role while it obviously makes you ~10x stronger.

soulforger said:
For some, their build includes devices. I know plenty of people that use becomes all the time in every situation instead of their normal powers. Those becomes are part of their build. CCers use CC devices, those devices are part of their build.

That's like claiming that if there was a god mode bug and someone made a build around it, then it's okay, because there are people whose build includes god mode.

soulforger said:
And yes, I could give you examples of why Defensive Passives unbalance the game, alone with the two Auras, and teleport.

Defensive passive dampens your damage output a lot. The key is finding the balance. It does not unbalance the game.

soulforger said:
But, truth be told, the motto of a game is "Use every tool at your disposal to defeat the target." For some, that means cheating, for others that means anything goes, for the fool hardy, that means crying for nerfes because they can't win. Obviously, you fall into the third category.
Remove devices? You might as well remove gear and passives. Make it about true skill instead of who stacks their stats the best.

It's as if you're saying cheating is the moral high ground, while wanting the cheating to be removed is foolhardy crybaby.

soulforger said:
Edit: I forgot, the biggest thing that makes duels last longer than neccassary (or any fight for that matter) is self heals. Maybe pvpers need to stop using those.

There's Trauma to fight against self heals. There's no power to dampen devices, nor should there be, for they are not powers. They're items.

catstarsto · April 2017

I think your just being silly, an ice grenade is a device offered to use, it is apart of ones build if added to your utility belt...a bug would be something that doesnt work as the devs intended. If they didnt want them to work a certain way and felt it was an exploit, trust me....it would be killed with fire!!

The humorous part of this subject is, most of the players are trying to get more content from the devs, the bitter few out there are wanting to take more of it away. comparing a device with a long cooldown to god mode, you have to admit that was stretching it pretty far for the drama. Its like bumping into someone and they run across the room and throw themselves against a wall thinking others will see them as the victim of your brutality.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0vP6R-sLNo

...ok, now I was being over dramatic for the laughs XD

spinnytop · April 2017

Could just make devices acquirable through Acclaim, then nobody can cry about pay2win anymore.

kajkr · April 2017

catstarsto said:
it is apart of ones build if added to your utility belt...

There's an entire power set for "utility" belt. It's called Gadgeteering.

Unknown · April 2017

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spinnytop · April 2017

pandoraslockbox said:
Devices are a noob tactic and whoever needs them or wants them in pvp is a noob.

So really, this thread is just about you wanting to call people noobs. tl;dr.

Unknown · April 2017

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spinnytop · April 2017

pandoraslockbox said:
No, this thread is (obviously) about getting the devs to disable devices in pvp. Don't be an idiot.

So now this thread is about you calling people idiots. Got it.

catstarsto · April 2017

Put work into your build so you dont have to complain about someone elses, everything they have is at your disposal too!

Unknown · April 2017

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Unknown · April 2017

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kallethen · April 2017

Have it as an option. This way both those who like devices and those who don't can have their cake and eat it too.

xrazamax · April 2017

Just disable all device for pvp except ones that can be unlocked via the hero games vendors. Those devices could be in multiple vendors (so you don't HAVE to do hero games) but the big issue is how some devices basically are almost mandatory for being competitive (looking at you NPG).

I don't think the issue is that people are crying "buu! Not fair! Your devices hurt me so much!". I think the bigger problem is that unlocking these devices takes so much time, and they are bound to character, that it makes the bar for competing too high for most players. "Sure I'll join hero games queue! Just give me a week or two so I can unlock those ice grenades to finish my build!" If there were low cost temporary equivalents of those items (Ex. Hero Games only ice grenades purchased with acclaim - 15 minute expiration after equipping), people would be able to get their alts in the fight more.

Barring certain devices, creating account bound pvp gear, and posting Hero Games scoreboards (somewhere publicly displayed!) are the trifecta of changes that can bring Hero Games to life.

catstarsto · April 2017

Why not just leave the game as it is, and get over it? If you know they have devices, prepare for them, get some yourself and dont keep falling for the same tricks nor use yours consistent enough to be obvious!

2:38 ...always expect the unexpected!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mcUPY0RMdU
train with me and ill help you to prepare for them!

I offer you a friendly hand pandora. Some here will argue for the sake of arguing, other just think they can rule others with selfish demands, but I think you are different..we can work together and the devices will be nothing but toys when I show you how to prepare for them. Someone tried to use the little Lemurian fish gang on me today in a pvp, they where a joke and gained him no ground. PM me for my @ name in game if your willing.

Ill even show you a couple devices to taunt them back >: 3

soulforger · April 2017

kajkr said:

You can pick the powers without having to open your wallet for the devices.

Whats the point of this sentence, for all you are saying is the obvious thing everyone knows. Or did you try saying "You can pick the powers, but need to open your wallet for devices"? In which case, that's not true at all, you can get all devices just by farming in game currency (Gs mainly).

kajkr said:

So you're saying you can farm Ice Grenades without using money?

Yes, you can. You can farm for EVERYTHING in this game, you don't need money. If its a drifter salvage item, farm Gs and buy crates of DS from the AH and other players. If it costs Questionite, farm the Questionite from quests and certain bosses. If it costs Zen farm Questionite and convert the Questionite to Zen. If it costs X Currency, farm X currency. There is no such thing as a device that can't be farmed from, well, except the gold sub monthly reward devices that are pure cosmetic.

kajkr said:

I've never seen someone dumb enough to claim that gear plays no role while it obviously makes you ~10x stronger.

Well, I have, they claimed that gear only increases your dps by a small amount. Which is obviously not true.

kajkr said:

That's like claiming that if there was a god mode bug and someone made a build around it, then it's okay, because there are people whose build includes god mode.

Dude, you comparing apples to potatoes. Fruit to a vegetable. Not even fruit to fruit. Items are typically in the game for the player to use. Bugs, are oversights or accidents, they are not there for the purpose of players to use them (exploiting bugs is ban-able, while exploiting devices is not). Next time you try to make a comparison, you might want to make sure its a good comparison.

kajkr said:

Defensive passive dampens your damage output a lot. The key is finding the balance. It does not unbalance the game.

Actually, you can make a tank that deals a good amount of dps, not as much as a dps, but still a good amount. And obviously you haven't watched pvp matches. If you have, you'd notice that the majority of passives used in pvp matches are defensive passives (mostly invuln and defiance). If they did not unbalance pvp at all, you'd see more variety of passives and builds.

kajkr said:

It's as if you're saying cheating is the moral high ground, while wanting the cheating to be removed is foolhardy crybaby.

And its as if you are saying devices are cheating...which isn't the case. So, we can safely call you the crybaby simply because you are once again comparing fruit to vegetables.

kajkr said:

There's Trauma to fight against self heals. There's no power to dampen devices, nor should there be, for they are not powers. They're items.

Yes, but, thats only a 50% debuff, and for some odd reason, I don't really see it being used in duels as much as you'd think it would be used. So my point still stands, self heals unbalance pvp (and to a degree, pve, as it seems a self heal or three are the requirement to do anything in the game, be it pvp or pve).

spinnytop · April 2017

kajkr said:
That's like claiming that if there was a god mode bug and someone made a build around it, then it's okay, because there are people whose build includes god mode.

That happened at one point, and it wasn't a bug. It was a device that made you immune to damage, and people would just use a bunch of them in a row. Despite that, PvP continued.

soulforger · April 2017

spinnytop said:

kajkr said:
That's like claiming that if there was a god mode bug and someone made a build around it, then it's okay, because there are people whose build includes god mode.
That happened at one point, and it wasn't a bug. It was a device that made you immune to damage, and people would just use a bunch of them in a row. Despite that, PvP continued.

That got nerfed though right?

darqaura2 · April 2017

soulforger said:

spinnytop said:

kajkr said:
That's like claiming that if there was a god mode bug and someone made a build around it, then it's okay, because there are people whose build includes god mode.
That happened at one point, and it wasn't a bug. It was a device that made you immune to damage, and people would just use a bunch of them in a row. Despite that, PvP continued.
That got nerfed though right?

I would hope so by now. . . or pvp is in even worse shape than I thought in this game.

spinnytop · April 2017

I was just pointing out that that happened without there needing to be a bug for it.

Unknown · April 2017

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soulforger · April 2017

pandoraslockbox said:
Yeah, the dev stopped ppl from stacking more than one of the same device.

Right, almost forgot about that.

imthenightmare · April 2017

pandoraslockbox said:
I'm not crying nerf because I can't win. I'm saying devices imbalance pvp. I've beaten a lot of "good" players so I don't need to cry nerf just to win.

'good players' u cant even beat my lvl 25 bruhhh

oobtree · April 2017

While we're at it, let's disable gear and powers in general as well. It's not like Hero Games haven't already been ruined.

Unknown · April 2017

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Unknown · April 2017

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spinnytop · April 2017

oobtree · April 2017

pandoraslockbox said:
Aww come on... it wouldn't ruin hero games, it would make it more balanced.

"More balanced"?! In the same respect -- it's balanced as is. It would NEVER be truly balanced until we no longer had the ability to "be your own hero"/"the hero you want to be" credence that IS Champions Online

So if you think disabling devices will improve Hero Games AT ALL, why stop there. It's not at all balanced as long as Freeform allows players to truly be freeform.

After all, Devices are a bit of an award for being a dedicated player/long-time player. They really aren't outrageous in price or luck. They're easier to get than top end gear! Farming for global/items to trade/sell is how every mmo works. Earn your gear and learn to use it ya noob!

Unknown · April 2017

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soulforger · April 2017

It is balanced. You haven't even given an example of how they are unbalanced. You just say they are. Give us an example, and we'll give you an example of how to balance it without removing devices. And your claim to how this would make people learn how to make builds is incorrect. We'd just end up with even more limited viable builds.

Unknown · April 2017

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soulforger · April 2017

pandoraslockbox said:
Lol... I think we all know how pvp is imbalanced. I didn't say people would suddenly learn how to make builds, I said they would need to know how to build (or how to copy) or else they'll lose... they wouldn't be able to make broken builds and patch them with stabilizing devices like some ppl do now. Babystacking in B.A.S.H. would still work, however. :P

If pvp is ever balanced, then there would be more viable builds, not less.

Not with your idea. They'd have to do a major balance patch with all powers in mind to be able to do something like what you want. Otherwise, removing devices would render many viable builds right now, usless. This would in turn reduce the amount of viable builds.

Unknown · April 2017

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spinnytop · April 2017

They have been doing that. #EBONRUIN

Unknown · April 2017

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spinnytop · April 2017

For some people it will never be enough. It's important to know if you're one of those people.

Unknown · April 2017

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Disable devices in hero games, duels, and team duels

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