Relentless only triggers from melee attacks, and many of The Specialist's attacks are a choice between either a ranged or a melee power. If the player chooses a primarily ranged build, it's going to have energy problems.
Suggestion: Now that Killer Instinct scales with REC, give The Specialist a choice between either Relentless or Killer Instinct.
Given that The Specialist chooses between either Munitions or Twin Blades as its powerset selection, it should be able to choose either Relentless or Killer Instinct
30 Parry or Retaliation
Another point to make The Specialist be more diverse than The Unleashed and The Blade. Having a choice of these Block replacers fits the theme of an assassin-type. It's a Premium AT so a little more versatility is fine in this case.
I also have to agree, with the previous posts. Killer Instinct mustn't be removed from the Specialist progression, leave the choice between Steadfast and Killer Instinct as it is please.
Useful Guides about Archetypes and General Gameplay of the Game Click Here
Relentless only works with melee crits? That isn't stated anywhere that I can find. If it works for ranged and melee, then I think you could proc it by using trip wire+adv to get a bleed on your target, then use your ranged attacks.
Still, the Specialist went from two damage stats to none. It will be sturdier now, but will have to choose between chucking wet noodles from range, or moving in for a furious feather-dusting. I'm not too sure what it is supposed to do. Can it off-tank? Can it DPS? Or, is it just for soloing the easier content?
Seems like many of the issues of the game are rolled into this AT. Problematic tanking passive, check. Ranged + Melee combination issues, check. AT stuck in hybrid role, check.
The current build already has Relentless, so having a choice between that or KI at least gives it some options.
I've got steadfast as EU on live currently. Either way were entering buggy-trap territory here
Bug/Suggestion: Specialist EU / PTS Relentless: EU Makes AT a Trap - Scales with End, AT has no End .. UPDATE: Planed to scale REC, scaling is less of issue. Tool tip needs chaning. - Requires Melee hits, AT is Melee/Range Mix - Requires Wounded target, Burst shot (Blade Tempet's alternate) doesn't wound (and is default)
Not experienced with the AT, but pulled ~500-600 stat-points of RNG gear from the vendor. Form could handle the all melee setup (got some nice energy gear), but all ranged suffered heavily. Lead tempest may make the cut with no EU, but only as an end game poer. 2GM was just a energy suck/trap. Overall AT is heavily biased to melee.
Old Steadfast / lock-n-load seems functional, though segregates the AT into ideally working ranged-melee roles. Form and rush can pick op the slack theory building as seen above. Probably better option. Best option is cross set EU, but I know you are opposed to those as they end up very universal.
Likes: Dragons Wrath is a nice change along the lines of 2GM
New Dex-Con-Rec seem functional with other changes. DEX-STR-EGO seemed like a different SS combo though. Plus vindcator mastery with that .. if it worked is a nice choice (Never pulled out the statistical software here.). I'll make a point of keeping track of how many premium ATs get con though.
Oh yeah, didn't catch that change from BB to DW. Seem like taking the best options for this AT will give you a crappy version of the Unleashed.
Why not just convert the specialist into a Dual Pistols AT. We don't currently have one. You could keep some utility sword options like EotS in there, but with the focus on pistols. Thematically, I like the swords + pistols... but the prudish mechanics of this game are against mixing of this sort.
In short, we have a dual swords, FotT, DW-spamming AT. No need for two. Focus on the pew-pew.
Here's a tweak to the Specialist's power progression that (I think) is a lil bit better...
1 Gunslinger 1 Burst shot or Blade Tempest 6 holdout Shot 8 Lightning Reflexes 11 FotT or Chilled Form 14 Eye of the Storm 17 Breakaway Shot or Strike Down 21 2GM or DW 25 Relentless or Killer Instinct 30 Parry 35 Masterful Dodge or LnL 40 Lead Tempest or Sword Cyclone
^This would let a player make a meaningful choice between a ranged or melee focus.
I like the new stats for the Specialist AT, but i agree with the others about its energy issues. Killer Instinct should be an option and so should Chilled Form (since its the only ranged form that scales with DEX). There is no reason to give all these archetypes Relentless as an EU if Steadfast works better. Relentless may have been better for some, if it worked with ranged critical hits too. Anyways, since it was changed to scale with REC now, it works well with the ATs Super Stats.
Why is relentless being shoved into all of these ATs? Doesn't it scale with END? That stat that neither the Blade nor the Specialist have?
Scales primarily with Recovery now.
-Peeks in other thread- Tool tip needs an update (Too much things to keep track of)
Unleashed makes more sense now, need to see how it works with force tree. Blade makes more sense now, but steadfast still seems superior Half of the Specialist makes sense?
Relentless doesn't need to have any interactions with the force tree, as far as the Unleashed is concerned. Containment Field is just a (terrible) hold, Force Eruption is simply a vehicle for a damage buff, Force Snap is just a pull, Force Shield is a block, and Force Geyser is an interrupt/aggroing tool (or a debuff vehicle, if for some reason there's someone out there who isn't going to take Strike Down).
ok so why does the Spcialist have dex/con/rec?
are you meant to now focus on being melee?
or did some people just not work out how to make it energy efficient.
I say, the removal of Bullet Beatdown from specialist is quite disturbing
if anything Bullet Balleto make sense in a form of tempest build since its 100% MELEE power now please bring it back
The reason I bought The Specialist was for a Bullet Beatdown build, melee munitions build. I am very disappointed that it is even being considered for removal, and will feel cheated by a bit of bait-and-switch if i's removed.
^I understand that your complaint about theme. But Dragon's Wrath is going to do more damage, provide a rush option, and has better synergy with the current SSs.
I just read the patch notes of the latest build in the PTS, Munitions now have even more new powers which include a passive, a toggle, some new powers. All of this leads to me believe that the Specialist was changed because the devs will add a new ranged offensive AT called the Assassin
Mutilating a core power selection to make a new AT distinct from an existing PREMIUM AT seems like a poor choice. This isn't a FREE AT they are tinkering with. This is one people have paid to access, with certain expectations.
I agree that Bullet Ballet (RIP Beatdown) should probably stay on The Specialist. As n8mcd mentioned, the gun-kata flair was an appealing aesthetic for some concepts; and mechanically, Form of the Tempest and Way of the Warrior sync well with a melee option in a Munitions loadout. Currently the only must-choose blade power is Eye of the Storm, and Bullet Ballet also (potentially) acts as a melee AoE, so...
Suggestion: Give the Specialist a choice between either Eye of the Storm or Bullet Ballet.
So, Relentless makes sense as the Specialist's EU now that it can be proc'd by ranged attacks. I would still like the option to take a ranged-damage form. Sharpshooter looks like it could work out fine, since you have ways to get yer furious buff going.
The Specialist was supposed to be Melee AND Ranged. I don't see a problem in having some of the power choices be between 2 ranged or 2 melee powers. The current (not PTS) build for The Specialist is a very effective melee-centric AT with ranged support options. If the cost issues for 2GM are addressed, it would once again be an effective ranged-centric AT with melee support options.
Outside of making the new special snow-flake more special, I see no rational for changes to The Specialist AT. All that really needed to be adjusted was the energy cost on 2GM, imo
I agree that Bullet Ballet (RIP Beatdown) should probably stay on The Specialist. As n8mcd mentioned, the gun-kata flair was an appealing aesthetic for some concepts; and mechanically, Form of the Tempest and Way of the Warrior sync well with a melee option in a Munitions loadout. Currently the only must-choose blade power is Eye of the Storm, and Bullet Ballet also (potentially) acts as a melee AoE, so...
Suggestion: Give the Specialist a choice between either Eye of the Storm or Bullet Ballet.
Why in the world was Bullet Beatdown taken off the specialist? It's mixed melee/range flavor was tailor made for such a unique AT. I get the stat changes, but all the power changes I don't. But IMHO, The Specialist didn't need fixing at all— it was damn near perfect.
And shouldn't the PAID AT's should be good? Now I just feel like my paid AT got nerfed and I bought this AT after the many improvements Kaiserin made to to it last year . It was the most flexible AT's and damn closed to a FF in performance.
What went wrong was it just too good? BB on the specialist being gone feels like a nerf.
FoTT + WotW + BB was a beloved and useful combo the Specialist. Stylish Gunkata all the way! Please find a way to let us keep it. I can't possibly believe this was OP.
I'm not sure if I would ever choose DB over RE o.o
On a decently built Blade AT, DB is the only way RE can even be used... Unless you plan on stacking 300 Rec, which in a case of being a DPS oriented AT / role, is totally dumb. Hitting like a wet noodle doesn't benefit anybody.
I was ok with the changes to the AT dr, but.. making me choose between the skill that let's me use my 'finisher' and the actual finisher is like THE worst possible thing.
I don't get it. #edit: I get it, we got relentless now. Oopsie.
As an aside, the Blade AT will be better than ever. Great changes.
If they removed Bullet Ballerina from Specialist to give it to the Gunslighter i will be very mad
1. You will give a MELEE power to an AT which I assume will be full range DPS 2. Specialist fits with this power more 3. I want to delete my Specialist now, i may made him as fan project but this is too much
it also screws up with the fact I need to regear him and chance all the mods which used to be ego and str
^I understand that your complaint about theme. But Dragon's Wrath is going to do more damage, provide a rush option, and has better synergy with the current SSs.
Implying everyones who plays as Specialist has the same mindset and theme for their builds and again, this AT was made to combine melee and range
not everyone wants their specialist to be a water-downed Unleashed
POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergiesPlaying since 1 February 2011 98+ Characters (7 ATs, 91 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
Ah. Now I get why the Specialist is getting a facelift of sorts. Is it a Hybrid or a Ranged role? Antagonize is an interesting choice for one of the block replacers.
The Specialist had some deep issues with its power progression. While from a freeform player's perspective more choices=good, it was easy to choose powers that would greatly hinder the build (like going mainly dual blades and picking the munitions energy unlock), which archetypes shouldn't be able to do.
The current setup for the Specialist makes that harder to do, as well as creating a divide with the choices between Pistols and Dual Blades. It could be a thing where the specialist can choose between eye of the storm or bullet ballet, since there isn't a choice divide there.
The Specialist had some deep issues with its power progression. While from a freeform player's perspective more choices=good, it was easy to choose powers that would greatly hinder the build (like going mainly dual blades and picking the munitions energy unlock), which archetypes shouldn't be able to do.
Having more choices is good even from an AT player's perspective, especially in ATs that offer two different playstyles and are a mix of two different roles/power sets. What about the players that want to get most of the ranged options for the Specialist, and then they are stuck with an EU that may not work the best for them and with a form that mostly increases your melee damage. That's another problem. Since it's an AT that's supposed to use both guns and swords, it should have everything needed for a player to balance between the two options.
Other ATs also have problems with the lack of choice or have to chose between two powers that would work great together, while there are powers that you don't even need or want to use (most of them are not on the list yet). For example, the Witch lacks some good power choices. I've seen Witch AT players trying to focus on healing, but had difficulty because Life Essence is the only strong healing power in it's progression, which isn't useful in some situations.
The Specialist had some deep issues with its power progression. While from a freeform player's perspective more choices=good, it was easy to choose powers that would greatly hinder the build (like going mainly dual blades and picking the munitions energy unlock), which archetypes shouldn't be able to do.
The current setup for the Specialist makes that harder to do, as well as creating a divide with the choices between Pistols and Dual Blades. It could be a thing where the specialist can choose between eye of the storm or bullet ballet, since there isn't a choice divide there.
I believe those are several flawed assumptions.
It's likely a person will have some experience with builds and choices by the time they have access to this purchased AT.
Also, if Bullet Beatdown is going to be a Melee power by default (as the power-changes indicated, making it a swap with Eye of the Storm is forcing a choice between two MELEE powers, not a Melee and a Ranged, as you had just indicated was the purpose of your changes to The Specialist.
*I realize you said dual blades and pistols, but you are either going to build for melee or ranged, making this a crappy choice for both a ranged specialist, and a melee specialist, as the support power choices are blade-centric for melee and munitions-centric for ranged. In fact, you will almost always be better off taking Eye of the Storm, just for the defensive shielding it offers.
Reviewing it further... Bullet Beatdown OR 2GM is still the ideal spot for the power.
If you are going to make a specialist and pick blade-powers down the row you are leaving the strengths of this AT on the shelf; you are much better-off using one of the FREE ATs (BLADE or UNLEASHED).
Reviewing it further... Bullet Beatdown OR 2GM is still the ideal spot for the power.
If you are going to make a specialist and pick blade-powers down the row you are leaving the strengths of this AT on the shelf; you are much better-off using one of the FREE ATs (BLADE or UNLEASHED).
Not seeing it. The Specialist really doesn't need access to 3 melee AoE attacks.
The last version of the AT had significant energy issues, so BB was probably the best damage-dealer you could realistically afford. But, the build doesn't do much to support using a combo as your primary damage dealer. I mean, you don't even get access to the Warden tree (and its combo buffs).
Dragon's Wrath gives the AT the option for a good single-target attack, and the rush buff will help with Sword Cylcone's energy hoggery.
I think choosing between EotS and BB makes the most sense, since they are both lower tier melee AoEs.
I am probably being difficult because I love bullet beatdown and the current build. I just fail to see how this is actually an improvement. Also, it seems BB on a gunslinger is out of place... a melee power (albeit munitions) in the middle of a range-build seems like a trap power-choice.
Gunslinger actually has a few melee powers. Pistol Whip and Execution Shot. It just needs ->
Give Gunslinger the choice between Sharp Shooter and Form Of The Tempest to give a melee toggle form option
Something not mentioned with the changes to the Soldier is that the order of unlocking the specializations was swapped. Intriguingly enough, this will probably aid leveling due to getting Rush of Battle sooner.
For as much as the Predator has a terrible outfit, to give credit where credit is due, it was inspired to use that older Dick Tracy-esque outfit that used to represent Munitions to be the default for the Gunslinger AT. The older pulp serials are only so used in the game so it's nice to see them get some representation.
With the amount of melee in the set, I don't fully agree that the Gunslinger should be a Ranged AT but it doesn't seem unplayable.
Bug Character creation Gunslinger is using the same description copied from the Specialist instead of something unique.
"Interesting builds are born from limitations not by letting players put everything into one build."
I think Kaserin is just trying to solve the Specialist's energy issues. You liked your BB build, I get it. My specialist uses BB as well. Wanted to use 2gm.. but what with the energy cost and the melee toggle, that option seemed crazy inefficient. Wanted to try sword cyclone (with butcher's blades)... and faced the same issue. So yeah, BB seemed like (far and away) the best option. Having an AT with multiple powers it can barely afford doesn't seem "serviceable" to me.
To my mind the revised Munitions builds are far too conservative in the early levels: you really don't need healing powers so early on, and most of all Burst Shot, by itself, is not an adequate levelling power. The Gunslinger looks more painful to level than the Witch.... Because of the Tier III restrictions the Gunslinger is effectively stuck with Burst Shot and a couple of pop-gun attacks (Holdout Shot/Parting Shot) until level 17. Good luck with completing any mission with numerous enemies ("Let's Stop A Riot" or "The Westside Intrigue Culmination", especially) with that power set. At least the Specialist gets Eye of The Storm at 14, the Soldier has the option for Gatling Gun....
I think Kaserin is just trying to solve the Specialist's energy issues. You liked your BB build, I get it. My specialist uses BB as well. Wanted to use 2gm.. but what with the energy cost and the melee toggle, that option seemed crazy inefficient. Wanted to try sword cyclone (with butcher's blades)... and faced the same issue. So yeah, BB seemed like (far and away) the best option. Having an AT with multiple powers it can barely afford doesn't seem "serviceable" to me.
I really dislike 2GM... powerful or not, I find it tedious and boring. I picked up the specialist specifically for BB, which is incredibly servicable and fun.
Here's my proper suggestion for The Specialist leveling path to balance range and melee choices:
- 6. Trip Wire. It shouldn't be a choice even tho they do different things, they both have the same advantage, stimpack and open wound, useful stuff and also, holdout shot, you have take duck roll and shoot while taking damage like a badass (if aggro'd), Trip wire does thing more beneficial, knock toward you will interrupt their attacks or charging/maintain a non-boss enemy and then STRIKE! sounds cool right?
- 8. "Composure" OR Way of the Warrior. Well DUH! of course i suggest this, the reason for this is because specialist lost its damage stat (STR/Ego), instead we have CON and REC, now i ain't complain'ng, it need those stats to take a more hit and hit them back without stopping, sure LR does benefit while having more CON, but not much for someone who use solely on guns, or sword too, that's why this AT need balance of their DPS rather then Dodge base survivability, and besides it has CON now!
- 11. Form of the Tempest Or "Sharpshooter" They both scale DEX, the Main stat of Specialist for Critage, for another sake for BALANCE!
- 21. Two Gun Mojo OR "Bullet Ballet" ? im not sure about this but some people want BB to be in part Specialist path, i think BB is good, DW is also good too, idk put BB between Eye of the storm for Choices, but it's gonna be 8 choices total! i prefer 7 choices (and less costy *wink wink*).
P.S:most of this i suggest is part of my opinion for what is best for this cool class to be balance and good leveling strat too i guess, and also it doesn't matter if the dev final choice is either trip wire or holdout shot because again, they both have the same ADV anyways.
i hope this is readable for you guys.
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"there nothing more fun then Punching faces LIKE NO BUSINESS!!!"
1 Gunslinger 1 Burst Shot 6 Holdout Pistol OR Pistol Whip 8 Composure 11 Parting Shot OR Breakaway Shot 14 Sharp Shooter 17 Two Gun Mojo OR Bullet Ballet 21 Antagonize OR Retaliation 25 Killer Instinct 30 Lead Tempest 35 Masterful Dodge OR Lock N Load 40 Sniper Rifle OR Execution Shot
Suggestion I can't log-in to the test server, but I'm concerned about the level progression here. The Gunslinger points out how challenging it is to make a DP leveling build. If this were a FF build you'd coast along with Assault Rifle at level 6 or so. But this is an AT so it doesn't have that luxury.
I do see 2gm or BB show up at level 17. But that means the early levels are spent fighting mobs with Burst Shot + Holdout Pistol + and Parting or Breakaway Shot .
Bullet Beatdown making it into the build earlier might help. As a BB build is viable early game even though it pushes a squishy ranged into melee. Also BB really shines best with WotW.... which this build doesn't have. The build does turn around once 2gm, is introduced and really picks up with Lead Tempest at 30. But that's a long boring slough to get through.
Suggestion: Change the Automaton's energy builder to Power Bolts instead of Wrist Bolter. Why? Since the power armor changes, the AT has no powers that would be able to make use of Wrist Bolter's advantage.
This isn't the best balance pass the game has received in the last year. It is the worst. It can't really be called a balance pass at all, because it flatly reduces game balance.
Eh, I see more frameworks being put forth as valid options, more individual powers being put forth as valid options, theme builds stepping up to frankenbuilds - all things that indicate that game balance is being increased.
It's wrongheaded thinking to say that FF is a class. It's actually build-a-class. Think of it like a card game, and ATs are your starter decks - FF lets you build your own. What you build might actually be worse than an AT, lol.
There should never be a reason for a player who has access to FF to feel like they should play an AT instead of a FF. Fixing this bug ensures that to be the case. Balance only applies between equivalent options - FFs and ATs are not equivalent options. ATs only need to be balanced among one another, and FF options only need to be balanced among one another. ATs are good enough to play in all content in the game adequately.
/signed harder than anything else posted in this thread. I don't get this comparison of FF to AT. I never made sense to me.
I agree. The comparison exists simply because there are those who got used to ATs having an unintended bug. ATs are supposed to be balanced among themselves, not against FFs. That's what was intended, that's a given, and that's what's going to be. Let's just focus on making ATs be good as-is (rather than some not being as good as others) which is the point of the thread to begin with.
Have to agree, this looks like the previous build of the Automaton when it was introduced.
Suggestion: Extend the range of Execution Shot to 25ft
Suggestion: Move the Gungslinger choice between Lock and Load/Masterful dodge to level 30
I agree -- maybe even move the EU up a little earlier too... so you have Killer Instinct at lvl 17 and Masterful Dodge -or- Locn N Load at Level 30. That way the build can make use of EU after recovery becomes available at lvl 15.
Also, does the presence of 2gm seem redundant to anyone else? I'd almost prefer to get Lead Tempest in that spot.
I'm on fence between the: - "Constitution is a good stat for gunslinger for survivability"
to
- "WHY con? why not ego?! ME ORC guNNR WANt DMAGE!!!"
Anyways i do have to agree at something, that Killer instinct should be early to get, but not too early to miss out an attacking power and choices, i say at level 21 should be alright.
____________________
"there nothing more fun then Punching faces LIKE NO BUSINESS!!!"
I agree -- maybe even move the EU up a little earlier too... so you have Killer Instinct at lvl 17 and Masterful Dodge -or- Locn N Load at Level 30. That way the build can make use of EU after recovery becomes available at lvl 15.
Also, does the presence of 2gm seem redundant to anyone else? I'd almost prefer to get Lead Tempest in that spot.
Well..
a) one of the general problems with ATs is that they don't get their powers fast enough b) developer tinkering keeps moving Tier 0/1 powers up to Tier III and not providing adequate replacements, meaning we're short of decent levelling powers/low level maintains/AoEs and have a wealth of rather meh Tier III's
...which means several of the new builds are looking a bit lacking at lower levels and offering awkward or middling choices at level 17-25.
I feel like Specialist and Gunslinger should switch spec trees; give Specialist Warden since it has many melee options, and give the Gunslinger Guardian tree since...well, since it's ranged. A ranged AT with a melee tree makes little sense imo. And Specialist has multiple combo power options, none of which are boosted (especially since Relentless users will be dependent on Blade Tempest).
So Gunslighter complety stole Bullet Beatdown from Specialist... really fair, yep, take a MELEE power and give it from the original premium old AT which was using it to another premium new AT which cannot take advantage of it
Post edited by avianos on
POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergiesPlaying since 1 February 2011 98+ Characters (7 ATs, 91 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
Is the Gunslinger still being turned into basically what will soon be the old Specialist? This is stupid. Don't do it.
You kind of screwed up with moving low tier powers up and leaving a gaping hole behind. That's the biggest issue with the entire munitions tree. If you don't fix that, the Gunslinger and Specialist are going to be **** to level.
Asking people to pay for a terrible leveling experience also seems dumb.
So Gunslighter complety stole Bullet Beatdown from Specialist... really fair, yep, take a MELEE power and give it from the original premium old AT which was using it to another premium new AT which cannot take advantage of it
Is the Gunslinger still being turned into basically what will soon be the old Specialist? This is stupid. Don't do it.
You kind of screwed up with moving low tier powers up and leaving a gaping hole behind. That's the biggest issue with the entire munitions tree. If you don't fix that, the Gunslinger and Specialist are going to be **** to level.
Asking people to pay for a terrible leveling experience also seems dumb.
Comments
Relentless only triggers from melee attacks, and many of The Specialist's attacks are a choice between either a ranged or a melee power. If the player chooses a primarily ranged build, it's going to have energy problems.
Suggestion:
Now that Killer Instinct scales with REC, give The Specialist a choice between either Relentless or Killer Instinct.
The Specialist
25 Relentless or Killer Instinct
Given that The Specialist chooses between either Munitions or Twin Blades as its powerset selection, it should be able to choose either Relentless or Killer Instinct
30 Parry or Retaliation
Another point to make The Specialist be more diverse than The Unleashed and The Blade. Having a choice of these Block replacers fits the theme of an assassin-type. It's a Premium AT so a little more versatility is fine in this case.
Still, the Specialist went from two damage stats to none. It will be sturdier now, but will have to choose between chucking wet noodles from range, or moving in for a furious feather-dusting. I'm not too sure what it is supposed to do. Can it off-tank? Can it DPS? Or, is it just for soloing the easier content?
Seems like many of the issues of the game are rolled into this AT. Problematic tanking passive, check. Ranged + Melee combination issues, check. AT stuck in hybrid role, check.
Either way were entering buggy-trap territory here
Bug/Suggestion: Specialist EU / PTS
Relentless: EU Makes AT a Trap
- Scales with End, AT has no End .. UPDATE: Planed to scale REC, scaling is less of issue. Tool tip needs chaning.
- Requires Melee hits, AT is Melee/Range Mix
- Requires Wounded target, Burst shot (Blade Tempet's alternate) doesn't wound (and is default)
Not experienced with the AT, but pulled ~500-600 stat-points of RNG gear from the vendor. Form could handle the all melee setup (got some nice energy gear), but all ranged suffered heavily. Lead tempest may make the cut with no EU, but only as an end game poer. 2GM was just a energy suck/trap. Overall AT is heavily biased to melee.
Old Steadfast / lock-n-load seems functional, though segregates the AT into ideally working ranged-melee roles. Form and rush can pick op the slack theory building as seen above. Probably better option. Best option is cross set EU, but I know you are opposed to those as they end up very universal.
Likes: Dragons Wrath is a nice change along the lines of 2GM
New Dex-Con-Rec seem functional with other changes. DEX-STR-EGO seemed like a different SS combo though. Plus vindcator mastery with that .. if it worked is a nice choice (Never pulled out the statistical software here.). I'll make a point of keeping track of how many premium ATs get con though.
Why not just convert the specialist into a Dual Pistols AT. We don't currently have one. You could keep some utility sword options like EotS in there, but with the focus on pistols. Thematically, I like the swords + pistols... but the prudish mechanics of this game are against mixing of this sort.
In short, we have a dual swords, FotT, DW-spamming AT. No need for two. Focus on the pew-pew.
1 Gunslinger
1 Burst shot or Blade Tempest
6 holdout Shot
8 Lightning Reflexes
11 FotT or Chilled Form
14 Eye of the Storm
17 Breakaway Shot or Strike Down
21 2GM or DW
25 Relentless or Killer Instinct
30 Parry
35 Masterful Dodge or LnL
40 Lead Tempest or Sword Cyclone
^This would let a player make a meaningful choice between a ranged or melee focus.
There is no reason to give all these archetypes Relentless as an EU if Steadfast works better. Relentless may have been better for some, if it worked with ranged critical hits too. Anyways, since it was changed to scale with REC now, it works well with the ATs Super Stats.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Unleashed makes more sense now, need to see how it works with force tree.
Blade makes more sense now, but steadfast still seems superior
Half of the Specialist makes sense?
That was the entire core of my build on the AT.
are you meant to now focus on being melee?
or did some people just not work out how to make it energy efficient.
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Suggestion:
Give the Specialist a choice between either Eye of the Storm or Bullet Ballet.
Outside of making the new special snow-flake more special, I see no rational for changes to The Specialist AT. All that really needed to be adjusted was the energy cost on 2GM, imo
And shouldn't the PAID AT's should be good? Now I just feel like my paid AT got nerfed
What went wrong was it just too good? BB on the specialist being gone feels like a nerf.
FoTT + WotW + BB was a beloved and useful combo the Specialist. Stylish Gunkata all the way! Please find a way to let us keep it. I can't possibly believe this was OP.
I was ok with the changes to the AT dr, but.. making me choose between the skill that let's me use my 'finisher' and the actual finisher is like THE worst possible thing.
I don't get it. #edit: I get it, we got relentless now. Oopsie.
1. You will give a MELEE power to an AT which I assume will be full range DPS
2. Specialist fits with this power more
3. I want to delete my Specialist now, i may made him as fan project but this is too much
it also screws up with the fact I need to regear him and chance all the mods which used to be ego and str
Implying everyones who plays as Specialist has the same mindset and theme for their builds
and again, this AT was made to combine melee and range
not everyone wants their specialist to be a water-downed Unleashed
The current setup for the Specialist makes that harder to do, as well as creating a divide with the choices between Pistols and Dual Blades. It could be a thing where the specialist can choose between eye of the storm or bullet ballet, since there isn't a choice divide there.
Other ATs also have problems with the lack of choice or have to chose between two powers that would work great together, while there are powers that you don't even need or want to use (most of them are not on the list yet). For example, the Witch lacks some good power choices. I've seen Witch AT players trying to focus on healing, but had difficulty because Life Essence is the only strong healing power in it's progression, which isn't useful in some situations.
It's likely a person will have some experience with builds and choices by the time they have access to this purchased AT.
Also, if Bullet Beatdown is going to be a Melee power by default (as the power-changes indicated, making it a swap with Eye of the Storm is forcing a choice between two MELEE powers, not a Melee and a Ranged, as you had just indicated was the purpose of your changes to The Specialist.
*I realize you said dual blades and pistols, but you are either going to build for melee or ranged, making this a crappy choice for both a ranged specialist, and a melee specialist, as the support power choices are blade-centric for melee and munitions-centric for ranged. In fact, you will almost always be better off taking Eye of the Storm, just for the defensive shielding it offers.
If you are going to make a specialist and pick blade-powers down the row you are leaving the strengths of this AT on the shelf; you are much better-off using one of the FREE ATs (BLADE or UNLEASHED).
The last version of the AT had significant energy issues, so BB was probably the best damage-dealer you could realistically afford. But, the build doesn't do much to support using a combo as your primary damage dealer. I mean, you don't even get access to the Warden tree (and its combo buffs).
Dragon's Wrath gives the AT the option for a good single-target attack, and the rush buff will help with Sword Cylcone's energy hoggery.
I think choosing between EotS and BB makes the most sense, since they are both lower tier melee AoEs.
Give Gunslinger the choice between Sharp Shooter and Form Of The Tempest to give a melee toggle form option
For as much as the Predator has a terrible outfit, to give credit where credit is due, it was inspired to use that older Dick Tracy-esque outfit that used to represent Munitions to be the default for the Gunslinger AT. The older pulp serials are only so used in the game so it's nice to see them get some representation.
With the amount of melee in the set, I don't fully agree that the Gunslinger should be a Ranged AT but it doesn't seem unplayable.
Bug
Character creation
Gunslinger is using the same description copied from the Specialist instead of something unique.
-Sterga
- 6. Trip Wire.
It shouldn't be a choice even tho they do different things, they both have the same advantage, stimpack and open wound, useful stuff
and also, holdout shot, you have take duck roll and shoot while taking damage like a badass (if aggro'd), Trip wire does thing more beneficial, knock toward you will interrupt their attacks or charging/maintain a non-boss enemy and then STRIKE! sounds cool right?
- 8. "Composure" OR Way of the Warrior.
Well DUH! of course i suggest this, the reason for this is because specialist lost its damage stat (STR/Ego), instead we have CON and REC, now i ain't complain'ng, it need those stats to take a more hit and hit them back without stopping, sure LR does benefit while
having more CON, but not much for someone who use solely on guns, or sword too, that's why this AT need balance of their DPS rather then Dodge base survivability, and besides it has CON now!
- 11. Form of the Tempest Or "Sharpshooter"
They both scale DEX, the Main stat of Specialist for Critage, for another sake for BALANCE!
- 21. Two Gun Mojo OR "Bullet Ballet" ?
im not sure about this but some people want BB to be in part Specialist path, i think BB is good, DW is also good too, idk put BB between Eye of the storm for Choices, but it's gonna be 8 choices total! i prefer 7 choices (and less costy *wink wink*).
P.S:most of this i suggest is part of my opinion for what is best for this cool class to be balance and good leveling strat too i guess, and also it doesn't matter if the dev final choice is either trip wire or holdout shot because again, they both have the same ADV anyways.
i hope this is readable for you guys.
"there nothing more fun then Punching faces LIKE NO BUSINESS!!!"
Suggestion
I can't log-in to the test server, but I'm concerned about the level progression here. The Gunslinger points out how challenging it is to make a DP leveling build. If this were a FF build you'd coast along with Assault Rifle at level 6 or so. But this is an AT so it doesn't have that luxury.
I do see 2gm or BB show up at level 17. But that means the early levels are spent fighting mobs with Burst Shot + Holdout Pistol + and Parting or Breakaway Shot
Bullet Beatdown making it into the build earlier might help. As a BB build is viable early game even though it pushes a squishy ranged into melee. Also BB really shines best with WotW.... which this build doesn't have. The build does turn around once 2gm, is introduced and really picks up with Lead Tempest at 30. But that's a long boring slough to get through.
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Super Stats:Level 1 - DEXTERITY, Level 10 - RECOVERY & Level 15 - CONSTITUTION
Role: Ranged
Power Progression:
Level 1 - Gunslinger
Level 1 - Bullet Hail
Level 6 - Holdout Shot OR Pistol Whip
Level 8 - Composure
Level 11 - Parting Shot OR Breakaway Shot
Level 14 - Sharpshooter (Toggle Form)
Level 17 - Two Gun Mojo OR Bullet Beatdown
Level 21 - Antagonize OR Retaliation
Level 25 - Killer Instinct
Level 30 - Lead Tempest
Level 35 - Masterful Dodge OR Lock N Load
Level 40 - Sniper Rifle OR Execution Shot.
Specialization Trees:
Dexterity
Vindicator
Warden
Mastery
--
This AT seems to be very...ahem...odd?
I don't know about anyone else but it seems like the progression could be improved or altered.
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Suggestion: Extend the range of Execution Shot to 25ft
Suggestion: Move the Gungslinger choice between Lock and Load/Masterful dodge to level 30
Also, does the presence of 2gm seem redundant to anyone else? I'd almost prefer to get Lead Tempest in that spot.
- "Constitution is a good stat for gunslinger for survivability"
to
- "WHY con? why not ego?! ME ORC guNNR WANt DMAGE!!!"
Anyways i do have to agree at something, that Killer instinct should be early to get, but not too early to miss out an attacking power and choices, i say at level 21 should be alright.
"there nothing more fun then Punching faces LIKE NO BUSINESS!!!"
Also, does the presence of 2gm seem redundant to anyone else? I'd almost prefer to get Lead Tempest in that spot.
Well..
a) one of the general problems with ATs is that they don't get their powers fast enough
b) developer tinkering keeps moving Tier 0/1 powers up to Tier III and not providing adequate replacements, meaning we're short of decent levelling powers/low level maintains/AoEs and have a wealth of rather meh Tier III's
...which means several of the new builds are looking a bit lacking at lower levels and offering awkward or middling choices at level 17-25.
Based on the last two comments -- it seems like it would make more sense to;
- Move BB back the Specialist
- Swap the Warden & Guardian trees. (Give the Specialist Warden and the Gunslinger Guardian)
So this is what you end up with:
The Specialist: A versatile Melee/Ranged Hybrid supported by it's Super Stats and Spec tree.
The Gunslinger: An efficient Ranged DPS (without the confusing choice of BB).
You kind of screwed up with moving low tier powers up and leaving a gaping hole behind. That's the biggest issue with the entire munitions tree. If you don't fix that, the Gunslinger and Specialist are going to be **** to level.
Asking people to pay for a terrible leveling experience also seems dumb.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
(edited to remove a reply to a deleted comment)