Thoughts about revamping Might & Celestial +

dakrushmor · December 2016

And so it begins. Let's assume these frameworks are widely used, that's true, they had some changes during last year, yah they got decent changes. But what's about doing it furthUr, and even more changes/stuff, perhaps new AT, like Might DPS AT. l wanna share certain ideas about how to do it:
MIGHT

Beatdown/Defensive Combo
Make them possible to KNOCK target. l assume Def. Combo might do that through advantage on last hit, and Beatdown - by default on last hit. Defensive combo might lose extra threat & defiance interaction, but instead apply Reckless, or Endorphin Rush (furthUr in topic about it). Beatdown might lose Stagger, and get it carried to advantage, because Stagger's more about Earth. Also some combos & other attacks may disorient.

Roomsweeper - extra enrage stacks mechanic's a bit outdated, thus it could inflict Endorphin Rush.

Unstoppable - energy regen might be a bit reduced or removed, and carried to might specific EU.

Enrage - Endorphin Rush advantage may be removed (to bring it inline w other forms) & scattered around Might attacks. Reworked, to make it decent selfheal and also (for DPS to normalize with Furious & Reckless) - increase CHARGE SPEED with it (would be awesome for Haymaker)

Haymaker - l'm not huge fan of nerfs & can't do it properly, so it's up to devs. Only think l would do though - it's reduce its CAST time (say downto 0.5 s) to make easier to block Cosmics with it.

Havoc Stomp - give "Drag Back" advantage, like Shadow Eruption has, that makes it able to pull targets towards the user, and extends range to 25'.

Shockwave - change damage type to Crushing (NPC shockwave deals it). Possibly tag the damage as Melee, but not ranged for it to benefit from Strength. Here's already hypervoice for sonic & demolish doesn't buff sonic.

Cyclone Force - add this AoE Crushing Melee Maintain. Each tick's chance to knock targets down. Advantage - 2 PT - Tornado Force - it now knocks Up, scales with Strength.

Brute Force - might energy unlock. Gives energy for knock (with might/brick powers) or for disorient (with these) or with both conditions.

Celestial already got pretty number of revamps, but some actions wouldn't be excess to make it better:
CELESTIAL

Radiance - Exhausting Strikes shouldn't hang to friendly targets. Brilliance shouldn't hang to hostile targets.

Vengeance - give it healing rune advantage! Condemn's.

Iniquity - l'm not huge fan of nerfs & can't do it properly, so it's up to devs. Maybe make it cost actual energy, and turn it into maintain, rather than macrospam. Maybe even make it so it could damage enemies, this way Celestial may get access to both single target/AoE maintains.

Conviction - remove crit, and vastly increase cooldown, because MSA supposed to work with Gadget powers primarily, yet Conviction's best thing to proc it.

Seraphim - turn it into BALANCED passive, so Offense Role could slot it. Its layout (+X paranormal, +Y par res +Z dim res) is quite like DPS passive's one, yet DPS'ren't allowed to slot it.

lllumination - it may get advantage, that makes it produce spheres for both Friendly and Hostile targets, for it to hang both its effects in one click.

Celestial Cleansing - pretty toxic power because of removing lingers from friendly targets, maybe delete it completely or rework for quite different effect.

Guardian - new Block power. Utilizes Rimefire Shield (Fnl rampage) visual, and Meditate emote. Imposes some defense to nearby teammates. Has 2 pt advantage, that imposes BLOCK status on PETS, that you have on, and thus protects them from roomies.

POWERS TO TOSS AROUND ACROSS SETS BEFORE FULL-SCALE REVAMP

Medi-Cannon - please make one more Gadgeteer gun Costume Bone - Gadgeteering Medical Cannons, and tech heal power without CoolDown. Inventor AT is unique of its kind by fact that it CANNOT fill its primary role - it can't heal. Inventor AT should get access to this power. Otherwise Inventor AT should get its role changed fron SUPPORT to BALANCED because pets' damage doesn't scale with it already for almost five years (llRC). l see constantly see numbers of Inventor AT's around. Do people realize that they purchase trash, that cannot do any endgame content? Not everyone who wants heal going to make "Ancient Greek Goddess of Life Incarnation" or faerie thing like that.

Raygun Spray - my Main didn't get any replacement for plazmabeam. You may argue that there's tech power AoE - best in game Lead Tempest. But mah theme EXCLUDES bullets! Don't care about theme? Well if see at everything from effectiveness viewpoint - then best option is to don't care about this game, and spend mah time for something more useful. l'm coming here for enjoyment & wanna see appropriate picture - totally ENERGY WEAPON. Make it look at "Gadgeteer Particle Rifle" skin - and any of those visuals: Viper Energy Spray, Teleio Mooks Lazor Spray, or even Nitehawke Event lazor drone beam, then its area will be Cylinder AoE rather than Cone.

Lunacy - make Mentalist AoE maintain because Telekine. Burst is #BUKT (like 70% of Mentalist powers), it doesn't trigger Concentr. nor benefit from Ranged DPS bonuses. Generally l would prefer for each powerset to have at least one Single Target Maintain, and AoE Maintain. Tho for melees combos maybe reworked to not requiring macros and execute like Maintains lMO.

Regain Senses - make Mentalist Revive and place it to Mind AT - probably alternate to Mindful Reinf. or Ego Hold. Forcing then to put on become Celestial/Doomlord is a rare meh.

dakrushmor · December 2016

Almost forgot to add Mystic::Celestial::Guardian Block power, useful for pet users, or else with all those "overnerfs" you may assume me celesial hater. Divine Bulwark as name variant.

Unknown · December 2016

This content has been removed.

dakrushmor · December 2016

gradii said:
Haymaker could definitely use a shorter charge time.

Not exactly Charge, but Activation time needs to be reduced. It's now 0.67 / 1.83, but could be made e.g. 0.5 / 2 s or even 2.5 s. Because after releasing a button, and during punch animation plays, character is unable to block incoming attacks, l guess it's during those 0.67 s. Or maybe it's not supposed to, and some legacy code? Conversely l think Charge Ups should be made pretty long charges, to make their playstyle more comparable with maintains, but with risk/reward. Making short "symbolical" charges for repeatedly mashing buttons only rewards players using Macros (3rd party soft technically), or break their keyboards.

notyuu · December 2016

dakrushmor said:

gradii said:
Haymaker could definitely use a shorter charge time.
Not exactly Charge, but Activation time needs to be reduced. It's now 0.67 / 1.83, but could be made e.g. 0.5 / 2 s or even 2.5 s. Because after releasing a button, and during punch animation plays, character is unable to block incoming attacks, l guess it's during those 0.67 s. Or maybe it's not supposed to, and some legacy code? Conversely l think Charge Ups should be made pretty long charges, to make their playstyle more comparable with maintains, but with risk/reward. Making short "symbolical" charges for repeatedly mashing buttons only rewards players using Macros (3rd party soft technically), or break their keyboards.

Maintains have the advntage of being able to literally just stop/start dealing damage on a dime...charge up's dont... [which is one of the reason I want a charge speed mod.. to make them faster.

Unknown · December 2016

This content has been removed.

aesica · December 2016

notyuu said:
Maintains have the advntage of being able to literally just stop/start dealing damage on a dime...charge up's dont... [which is one of the reason I want a charge speed mod.. to make them faster.

That would also equate to a direct DPS increase, so if we ever did get such a thing, it would be too small to make a real difference unless it also scaled damage down accordingly.

That said, I wouldn't mind it if charge-up powers would auto-execute with whatever they'd built up when something like a knock or stun interrupts the user, but I can see why they wouldn't do that so...yeah. I prefer maintains because getting a few ticks off before a thing punts me into the air is better than getting nothing off because I got punted into the air before my charge finished.

dakrushmor · December 2016

aesica said:

notyuu said:
Maintains have the advntage of being able to literally just stop/start dealing damage on a dime...charge up's dont... [which is one of the reason I want a charge speed mod.. to make them faster.
That would also equate to a direct DPS increase, so if we ever did get such a thing, it would be too small to make a real difference unless it also scaled damage down accordingly.
That said, I wouldn't mind it if charge-up powers would auto-execute with whatever they'd built up when something like a knock or stun interrupts the user, but I can see why they wouldn't do that so...yeah. I prefer maintains because getting a few ticks off before a thing punts me into the air is better than getting nothing off because I got punted into the air before my charge finished.

Also AoE charge ups can't blow harder than they do, because some player might defeat small mook (and what if that one stands on best position?) before that charge up fires, and then a shot couldn't be fired. Unlike if it was Maintain, which continues to fire even if primary target's defeated.

soulforger · December 2016

Charge ups can be launched early for less damage guys, you don't need to charge them up fully. There is no need for a charge mod. Just like maintains only do full damage on a full maintain and less if interrupted, charge ups act the same way, except the damage is all at once.

sterga · December 2016

Charge ups shouldn't be any longer than 2s, tops. (Personally like the 1.5s ones the most.) Especially not with the move towards CC barrage-a-thon mobs.

If conviction gets changed, every single toon needs to get a free respec. Ideally, it shouldn't be touched at all. To screw it up would piss off a lot of people and leave many builds with no simple self healing options. Conviction isn't a good replacement for a healer. It's just a nice maintenance heal for basic content.

Conduit should have it's ability to chain as innate instead of relying on illuminate. It sucks to use the chain healing on your team now. It was the unloved aoe heal before and it's even worse now with the illuminate changes.

It would be super if we had the old ascension back.

Illuminate / mend kinda bites. A 15% chance to maybe apply a weak sauce heal? Charge ups are, again, shown to be inferior VS maintains. Why not a 100% chance to apply this weak heal on hit? It's not like it's going to compete with sentinel mastery.

MSA shouldn't be touched either. It's one of the few energy unlocks that is cross set friendly and requires investing into a 'meh' stat to give good energy. It would be better to have a new EU for gadgets instead of irritating more people by ruining their builds. Let's not have another mess like Overdrive.

aiqa · December 2016

Most melee forms have additional advantages. Before the LS review only bestial lacked one. So not sure what removing the adv from enrage would exactly help with equalizing form.

mithrosnomore · December 2016

dakrushmor said:

Raygun Spray - my Main didn't get any replacement for plazmabeam. You may argue that there's tech power AoE - best in game Lead Tempest. But mah theme EXCLUDES bullets! Don't care about theme? Well if see at everything from effectiveness viewpoint - then best option is to don't care about this game, and spend mah time for something more useful. l'm coming here for enjoyment & wanna see appropriate picture - totally ENERGY WEAPON. Make it look at "Gadgeteer Particle Rifle" skin - and any of those visuals: Viper Energy Spray, Teleio Mooks Lazor Spray, or even Nitehawke Event lazor drone beam, then its area will be Cylinder AoE rather than Cone.

I'd really rather they just make a new framework.

Call it "blaster" or whatever and just add a variety of powers around the classic "character with a gun" concept.

Not "character with a hundred different guns", just a single energy pistol or energy rifle (possibly even dual pistols) with animations to allow for the players to set their own preference.

Maybe there would be some crossover with munitions powers but so what? There's a big difference between Adam Strange, Han Solo, Star Lord, etc and the Punisher, and I think that most players would agree.

They could introduce a new framework at the same time. Call it "space soldier" or "star sheriff" or something like that.

I just don't think that gadgeteering should be loaded up with a bunch of gun powers, and the more they add the more it seems like it would be moving towards a split down the road anyway (like laser sword and it's origins in PA).

Rather than have players go into a framework and then have that framework stripped of what attracted them, just make the new framework to begin with.

dakrushmor · December 2016

mithrosnomore said:

I'd really rather they just make a new framework.
Call it "blaster" or whatever and just add a variety of powers around the classic "character with a gun" concept.
Not "character with a hundred different guns", just a single energy pistol or energy rifle (possibly even dual pistols) with animations to allow for the players to set their own preference.
Maybe there would be some crossover with munitions powers but so what? There's a big difference between Adam Strange, Han Solo, Star Lord, etc and the Punisher, and I think that most players would agree.
They could introduce a new framework at the same time. Call it "space soldier" or "star sheriff" or something like that.
I just don't think that gadgeteering should be loaded up with a bunch of gun powers, and the more they add the more it seems like it would be moving towards a split down the road anyway (like laser sword and it's origins in PA).
Rather than have players go into a framework and then have that framework stripped of what attracted them, just make the new framework to begin with.

It's all FULL-SCALE framework revamp, that may be or may be not in the scope of next year, but l want to have Plasma Beam (AoE, Maintain, Technology, doesn't shoot bullets) replacement for my Main right here & now! & l'm think l'm not only one who wants it. It would be quick fix, as opposed to revamp with Power Replacer-inspired powers (say, gun powers for all DPS types - electric, ice, fire, psionic, magical...).

notyuu · December 2016

Little side note, how about instead of removing the endorphin rush adv on enraged, change it to scale off str, and then add similar advs across the other forms scaling with the approate form stat and with a fancy name thing.. it would really help out some of the ATs as well as being all around.. nice.

aesica · December 2016

notyuu said:
Little side note, how about instead of removing the endorphin rush adv on enraged, change it to scale off str, and then add similar advs across the other forms scaling with the approate form stat and with a fancy name thing.. it would really help out some of the ATs as well as being all around.. nice.

For the sake of developer resources, it might be better to just have this multi-form endorphin rush advantage scale with superstats in general rather than being stat specific. That way, they only have to make one copy of the advantage, then tack it onto a bunch of different forms rather than making several copies with different stat requirements.

spinnytop · December 2016

notyuu said:
Little side note, how about instead of removing the endorphin rush adv on enraged, change it to scale off str, and then add similar advs across the other forms scaling with the approate form stat and with a fancy name thing.. it would really help out some of the ATs as well as being all around.. nice.

I don't really think the heal effect should scale with superstats because that risks making it drastically less useful for some people. Having it scale on enrage stacks is good because, well, if they're using Enrage then they're gonna have those stacks guaranteed. Of course if any super stat, Strength would make the most sense since that is also a thing that someone using Enraged is likely to have some amount of.

notyuu · December 2016

spinnytop said:

notyuu said:
Little side note, how about instead of removing the endorphin rush adv on enraged, change it to scale off str, and then add similar advs across the other forms scaling with the approate form stat and with a fancy name thing.. it would really help out some of the ATs as well as being all around.. nice.
I don't really think the heal effect should scale with superstats because that risks making it drastically less useful for some people. Having it scale on enrage stacks is good because, well, if they're using Enrage then they're gonna have those stacks guaranteed. Of course if any super stat, Strength would make the most sense since that is also a thing that someone using Enraged is likely to have some amount of.

and what I'm saying is that if the version they would in theory put on focus would scale off of dex, and the one on constration would scale off of ego/int [whichever is higher] and so on

aesica said:

notyuu said:
Little side note, how about instead of removing the endorphin rush adv on enraged, change it to scale off str, and then add similar advs across the other forms scaling with the approate form stat and with a fancy name thing.. it would really help out some of the ATs as well as being all around.. nice.
For the sake of developer resources, it might be better to just have this multi-form endorphin rush advantage scale with superstats in general rather than being stat specific. That way, they only have to make one copy of the advantage, then tack it onto a bunch of different forms rather than making several copies with different stat requirements.

that could work too.

Thoughts about revamping Might &amp; Celestial +

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Thoughts about revamping Might & Celestial +