About PVP in CO ...

italkalot22 · December 2016

There's a few points that my in game friends and I who enjoy PVP came up with:

1. Rewards that will attract players to play Hero Games.
2. Focus mainly on team based Hero Games like UTC.
3. Add in more maps for the team based Hero Games.
4. Have a PVP Dev or a Dev that'd be interested in helping out with it.

Now I know it's easier said than done to do those pointers. So my friends and I who think that everyone else can enjoy Hero Games would like it to be introduced, I would opt to be a PVP Dev if in anyway possible. A lot of people have been complaining about the toxic community of PVP. Yes, they are to some point right, but a few of us sat down and talked, even the ones they consider 'toxic' and we've come to a term to make PVP a fun and enjoyable place to be and participate in. The queues are working fine, it works on Live aswell as we've tested them. Yes it is PVP focused but we want PVE players and anyone else to be able to enjoy Hero Games aswell. It's such a waste to be honest, to not see anyone queue for interesting aspects of the game. If anyone at all would be interested to hear ideas from myself and my fellow PVP friends who are striving to make PVP community fun and enjoyable you can contact me in game mail or through Discord at italk#3864. We want PVP to be active again, and we want Hero Games to be running. I hope I get responses from you Devs, thank you very much.

A lot of PVE players have been completely bad-mouthing PVP. But I guess I can see where they are coming from and we ourselves think that through those 4 points PVP can be improved. Those are just some of the thoughts my in game friends and I have thought up about.

servantrules · December 2016

italkalot22 said:
There's a few points that my in game friends and I who enjoy PVP came up with:

1. Rewards that will attract players to play Hero Games.

This alone will greatly affect the use of actual PVP queues. Legion Gear isn't attracting old or new players, given that it's a reward you can just roll the dice with through lockboxes. And the luchador costumes, while amusing, is a niche interest. New End game or Heirloom equips, New power unlocks, Perhaps a new unlockable AT or two, devices, etc. Heck, maybe a superbase for Super Groups.

italkalot22 · December 2016

servantrules said:

italkalot22 said:
There's a few points that my in game friends and I who enjoy PVP came up with:

1. Rewards that will attract players to play Hero Games.
This alone will greatly affect the use of actual PVP queues. Legion Gear isn't attracting old or new players, given that it's a reward you can just roll the dice with through lockboxes. And the luchador costumes, while amusing, is a niche interest. New End game or Heirloom equips, New power unlocks, Perhaps a new unlockable AT or two, devices, etc. Heck, maybe a superbase for Super Groups.

Thank you so much man, appreaciate your reply, and yeah those seem fun reasonable and fun to work towards through the queues!

rtma · December 2016

italkalot22 said:
1. Rewards that will attract players to play Hero Games.

I've said this about Xboxlive and I'll say it here, No amount of incentive is going to make it any more or less "fun" then it already is, for some of us that can't enjoy PvP this isn't going to work no thanks to numerous variables at play, otherwise it's going to be more of exploitation compared to grinding Cosmics for Silver/Gold Shinies.

italkalot22 · December 2016

rtma said:

italkalot22 said:
1. Rewards that will attract players to play Hero Games.
I've said this about Xboxlive and I'll say it here, No amount of incentive is going to make it any more or less "fun" then it already is, for some of us that can't enjoy PvP this isn't going to work no thanks to numerous variables at play, otherwise it's going to be more of exploitation compared to grinding Cosmics for Silver/Gold Shinies.

Thank you for speaking for the some of us who doesn't enjoy PVP, I see where you are coming from. But not everyone is within the some of us

I appreaciate your view on it though.

servantrules · December 2016

rtma said:

I've said this about Xboxlive and I'll say it here, No amount of incentive is going to make it any more or less "fun" then it already is, for some of us that can't enjoy PvP this isn't going to work no thanks to numerous variables at play, otherwise it's going to be more of exploitation compared to grinding Cosmics for Silver/Gold Shinies.

In the same way that a part of the population prefers PVE, some get into MMOs for the PVP, while others are a little of both. Whether it's bragging rights or the need to test one's self with others, the point being, increased rewards (that isn't available anywhere else) would improve the population actually using the PVP aspect of the game. And improving one major aspect of CO benefits everyone in the long run.

Unknown · December 2016

This content has been removed.

soulforger · December 2016

New rewards won't do diddly actually. It was already said above, but, pvpers tend to exploit certain builds, and because of this the difference between a pvp build and a pve build is catastrophic overall. Pvers will not want to do pvp until they made powers have separate functions between pvp and pve to help close the exploits. This is the true factor of why so many people hate pvp in this game, its not the lack of rewards, its the exploits.

servantrules · December 2016

soulforger said:
New rewards won't do diddly actually. It was already said above, but, pvpers tend to exploit certain builds, and because of this the difference between a pvp build and a pve build is catastrophic overall. Pvers will not want to do pvp until they made powers have separate functions between pvp and pve to help close the exploits. This is the true factor of why so many people hate pvp in this game, its not the lack of rewards, its the exploits.

I sincerely doubt it "won't do diddly". And by the nature of PVP, exploits are a given. There are players who enjoy PVP more than PVE and actively find ways to exploit the game system in any MMO. While it's true, balance needs to be made to an extent so as not to have only 1 or 2 builds dominating PVP, no one's using the actual PVP queue instead of the casual dueling that occurs in Ren Cen. The perspective is, there's no point to doing so when they can do that in the middle where "ooh, look, how strong my build is" at least has an audience instead of "hey, let's go duel in PVP and maybe get some rewards while we're at it".

Moreover, when referring to "PVP", this means the Hero Games queues, as a whole. For instance, Zombie Apocalypse and Prison Break can be amusing, but a more robust rewards system would draw people there more often (instead of the ghost towns that they are).

A possible side benefit is that having a rewards system in PVP that's at least worth doing allows some rationale for building "super-villain" characters (probably the closest the game can get without resorting to a "City of Villains" situation that creates its own problems).

opalflame · December 2016

As someone who enjoys both pve and pvp, I would love to see some more pvp rewards, but I agree with what some people are saying about balance. Pvp is really unbalanced right now.

thistleswift1 · December 2016

before i start with the meat and potatoes of this post, let me say that i am not a pvp'er but i think the game could certainly make some advances in this area. some work in the area of pvp is warrented, both to bring in some new peoples as well as give those who are already here and into it something new to play with. if my idea is stupid or has holes, it's because i generally don't think like a pvp'er. but it could be a jump-off point for something that may make sense.

i think that having some new ideas in the area of pvp could help out, and the one (with kinda two different twists) i am suggesting probably won't be a cure-all for pvp, but it could be a band-aid until better things are created. if i understand the arguments/problems with a lot of our current pvp is that it is not balanced, especially with at's vs ff's, and build differences as well. my suggestion would handle this in a manner. i am imagining two different pvp scenarios that would focus as much, if not more, on skill of the player and tactics as on builds, because the builds would be already built in for the combats.

in the first of the two scenarios, the players on each side would have a start place with several npcs. each of these npcs would activate on the character basically a become device, something similar to the ovs but less cosmic leveled/more heroic leveled. it would be best if the usage would not affect their looks, just their power-sets (cuz you wanna look your best while beatin' up others!). also, kind alike alerts, i would think the players would also be put to the same level (30 or 40 or whatever, i'm no expert, obviously). different npcs would give a different pre-made build, and there would be builds for each of the roles at a minimum and hopefully multiple choices within each role (ie there would be multiple ranged dps builds, one that focuses on fire powers, another that is munitions, another magic. etc.). upon choosing the role/build, the player would then teleport to the actual combat area. re-spawning would return you to the staging area where you can take a different role if your team's makeup needs something different. the match could be timed, or could rely on one side making a certain number of kills, or it could possibly rely on some other criteria to reach it's end (capturing flags or holding ground or something else pvp-ish). i ~think~ this would allow for a more balanced pvp, with focus on skill and team tactics ... i could be wrong.

the second idea would be focused on pvp action with vehicles. basically have it set up kinda like the malvan race, but allow the players to unleash weapons on each other. the winning conditions could again be kinda varied: making a certain number of laps or passing a certain number of check points, timed with number of kills, etc. not sure if this would be a free-for-all, or if maybe teams would be involved. maybe also have some other things in the environment: other npc racers or other targets that may give power-ups (speed bursts, temp shield or small weapon boosts, etc.) upon being hit/destroyed/raced through or maybe turrets/npcs that will attack the players from the sidelines as they pass (think tusken raiders shooting the pod-racers). i would assume it could be used with the character's own vehicles, but also have a few of various types available with some standard of mods/weapons/etc. i kinda like this idea better than the first one because i really kinda wanna see CO use the vehicles a bit more. a lot of development time has gone into them and they seem to be getting the short end of the stick with all the newer content (especially since they have no block against the huge attacks of all the cosmics seem to have).

again, let me reiterate and say that i am not a pvp'er, and these are just ideas off the top of my head. maybe they can help wiggle someone's brain who is more knowledgeable of such things to come up with better ideas!

roughbearmattach · December 2016

My great PvP wish would be that level 40 toons become their own category for Hero Games/UTC/BASH/etc.

The differences between level 40, freshly retconned and geared toons and level 39 toons are often massive.

Way, way, back, I used to level some toons largely through Hero Games/UTC. Had lots of fun, and I was playing ATs, and I am by no means great at PvP. When toons reached the top tier, level 35+, things often took a turn for the worse, and I would stop PvP at that point.

Level 40 characters really are in a class of their own, as recognized by our current endgame missions and rewards.

dbrii · December 2016

roughbearmattach said:

Level 40 characters really are in a class of their own

Not only that, but level 40 characters with high end gear are also in a class of their own far above the other 40s.

A full set of Justice or Virtuous gear, for example, along with expensive mods will push any character to a new level regardless of power selection. It's ridiculous how good some of this gear is, and it's another reason why PVP just doesn't work for this game. The insane amount of farm needed to acquire this gear means that a very low percentage of heroes have it, and therefor, very few people are able to compete at that top level with the pvp elite. Weaker gear in this game means you are fighting at a HUGE mathematical disadvantage.

Most people don't want to climb that time-consuming "gear wall" they hit at level 40, so they don't bother with pvp either.

notyuu · December 2016

dbrii said:

roughbearmattach said:

Level 40 characters really are in a class of their own
Not only that, but level 40 characters with high end gear are also in a class of their own far above the other 40s.

A full set of Justice or Virtuous gear, for example, along with expensive mods will push any character to a new level regardless of power selection. It's ridiculous how good some of this gear is, and it's another reason why PVP just doesn't work for this game. The insane amount of farm needed to acquire this gear means that a very low percentage of heroes have it, and therefor, very few people are able to compete at that top level with the pvp elite. Weaker gear in this game means you are fighting at a HUGE mathematical disadvantage.

Most people don't want to climb that time-consuming "gear wall" they hit at level 40, so they don't bother with pvp either.

what about if they made it so that to actually queue PvP they gave you a set of "standardized" gear [somewhere between legion and justice] as well as your choise of PvP spefic mods, that only function in PvP.. free of charge?

servantrules · December 2016

notyuu said:

what about if they made it so that to actually queue PvP they gave you a set of "standardized" gear [somewhere between legion and justice] as well as your choise of PvP spefic mods, that only function in PvP.. free of charge?

Or just all gear is disabled, including devices. Then it just becomes build vs. build and skill vs. skill.

roughbearmattach · December 2016

Guild Wars 1 did that, more or less. Made everyone same level, too.

yinjeigh · December 2016

Just give PvP its own Gear tiers that use acclaim, and maybe an Acclaim/SCR conversion so that people can hop between PvE and PvP as they please. The main issues with PvP that made it not fun(imo as a former PvPer) seemed to have been device cycling and AD cycling, both of which have been fixed. We now have hold resistance working as intended at 3 stacks, so no perma-sleep and ice nades. Just give us a reason to actually DO PvP. And include rewards that may attract PvErs. Emotes. Costumes. Powers. Devices. The list goes on.

Also, a new PvP map wouldn't hurt./ Or maybe bring some attention to the existing ones as many new players don't even know PvP games are a thing.

italkalot22 · December 2016

But if we're talking about gears on it's own, don't PVE players farm for higher end gear to have a higher chance in a success against cosmics ? I believe they also farm Justice, Onslaught, SCR, GCR, so if we're talking about gears. It's the same way how PVPers got their gears, they grinded, so we're all starting from the same point in terms of getting gears.

notyuu · December 2016

servantrules said:

notyuu said:

what about if they made it so that to actually queue PvP they gave you a set of "standardized" gear [somewhere between legion and justice] as well as your choise of PvP spefic mods, that only function in PvP.. free of charge?
Or just all gear is disabled, including devices. Then it just becomes build vs. build and skill vs. skill.

if all gear was disabled then it would you would NEED dex to into crits, invul would have a massive advantage over everything else, most EUs and forms would be borderline useless and about half the powersets in the game just outright wouldn't work.

spinnytop · December 2016

notyuu said:
what about if they made it so that to actually queue PvP they gave you a set of "standardized" gear [somewhere between legion and justice] as well as your choise of PvP spefic mods, that only function in PvP.. free of charge?

They do this in Tera and for some reason most people hate it. I like it, but only because it allows me to play on equal footing without having to go through that game's gear grind ( which makes ours look like bobbing for apples ). Honestly, here gear doesn't make as big of a difference to really justify that sort of system. More than likely they'll want to have some sort of gear carrot to entice people into pvp once they fix the queues anyway, and just like our pve you'll have people cruising around in blue auction house gear stomping people in full Gladiator Gear.

I think the idea of Gladiator Gear having pvp-specific stats that don't work against pve mobs is interesting.

Making a lvl 40-only queue is... well it's just necessary.

servantrules said:
Or just all gear is disabled, including devices. Then it just becomes build vs. build and skill vs. skill.

That wouldn't work at all. Your SSs and how much you invest into each one is a part of your build, and gear disappearing would severely gimp builds, some more than others.

About PVP in CO ...

Comments