So now that two of the 4 non-MA melee sets (heavy weapons and bestial) have been reviewed and enough time has passed to look at how things perform, I think it's time to have a look at how their dps ended up.
I didn't use any +damage mods since not all sets have those available yet, and had to throw in rising knee for lasersword since chest beam is bugged and doesn't proc enrage.
This is the character I used for testing.
From highest to lowest dps this what I got out of the sets.
(r2 + bloody mess)
(r3)
(r3)
(r2 + scorching blade)
So while haymaker and lasersword and quite similar, oddly enough the two sets that have been recently reviewed show a huge difference. I think this needs another look at to get sets to perform somewhat similar. It looks like bestial dps was balanced without counting in bleed damage, but since that such an integral part of the set I don't think that is fair.
Comments
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
edit: also what about laser sword r2 + the increasing dmg spec?
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Block timing explained
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Block timing explained
So while I cannot give you exact base numbers for abilities, here's a list of melee abilities broken down by tier based on their intended normalized damage output. What I mean by this is on paper these abilities are supposed to have roughly the same output with one another. This includes their activation times.
This doesn't include everything and I can potentially expand this list at a later date
The bracket difference isn't huge, but should be noticeable during a parse:
Bracket 1:
Bracket 2:
Bracket 3:
Bracket 4:
Bracket 5:
Now on paper doesn't always mean it translates to in practice as there are many other factors to take into account (dot accessibility, resistance debuffs, bugs, power rotations, etc).
Annihilate lagging behind I find interesting as during local tests it was keeping up just fine, which points to something else being the cause. Annihilate is slower than most other abilities, and this could be a case of lag causing some problems as its base damage is coming up lower than expected in that parse.
Same for Haymaker. On paper it should be performing incredibly well, but in practice its base damage seems low.
Now I know that many of these abilities are performing up to par as I use them on live myself. But perhaps this knowledge can assist players in pointing out what holes some of these abilities have to bring them up to speed or just find possible bugs with them. Or at the very least broaden player's perception for 'viable' melee attacks.
As always please keep the discussion constructive.
If you just ignore all that the sets are quite well balanced, but I don't think that is a good premise.
The list itself is cool and a bit enlightening on what's going on behind the curtain, but can raise some questions. I am a bit curious if, for example, DC and TBite's positions should be swapped ideally? I mean, currently I do think that Shredded + TB builds can out-perform even DC + Shredded ones w/o TB, but I think that's kinda the way it should be since DC has Rush, TB depletes a debuff, and TB costs more innately. Reaper's Embrace + Rupture also being put in the 3rd bracket is a bit surprising to me, but perhaps you meant that also w/o Shredded, and w/ Shredded its in bracket 1 or 2? hmm..
I also think that BCF should be a bit higher. It doesn't proc Rush, its more costly than DU, doesn't debuff or get a knock bonus afaik, and its an end tier power for Unarmed. Part of this could be addressed, maybe, by making its DoT stack? Currently it doesn't, and given how fast the attack is, maybe that could be changed? DE and Thrash are also in diff brackets, which seems a bit odd but perhaps I'm just missing a detail.
Regardless, thanks for the input and feedback, Kaiz. I may be having trouble getting ACT for work w/ CO again, so I can't really add much hard data, but if there's anything you think we should be focusing on when testing or parsing, let us know.
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
Massacre parse: 141s. Appears to be taps, about 0.83s each. Massacre and Eviscerate are about the same speed, so the net contribution is:
Debuff (-20%)
Bleed Refresh: +97,572 damage
Damage Delta: -10,830 damage (diff between 10 massacres and 10 eviscerates)
Net effect: +615 dps, and a -20% debuff.
Haymaker parse: 198s. Appears to be full charges, so 13 demolish are costing 10.2 haymakers. Net contribution is:
Debuff (-18%)
Damage Delta: -27,935 (difference between 13 demolishes and 10.2 haymakers)
Net Effect: -141 dps, and a -18% debuff.
Annihilate parse: 199s. Appears to be taps, about 1.02s each, so one arc of ruin costs 1 annihilate. Net contribution is:
Debuff (-15%)
Clinging Flames Refresh: +16,950 damage
Damage Delta: -63,403 (difference between 19 arcs and 19 annihilates).
Net effect: -233 dps, and a -15% debuff.
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Block timing explained
Right now the melee differences aren't *that* bad. There is a lot of room for improvement (TK Blades are lagging quite a bit behind and some powers should probably not be so high on the list considering the other effects they have).
A lot of melee sets however currently achieve respectable numbers, and I feel a lot of pre-conceived notions are hampering players from trying out different setups.
Edit: Regarding HW there are some tweaks that could probably be made to even things out a bit. Resistance debuffs are still being worked on, and while Shredded provides higher values, there are far more crushing debuffs currently in circulation which will make a difference in group content.
Annihilate's base damage seems low, but it does look like debuff duration/debuff amount is likely the cause of that.
So, long haul..
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
But analyzing set outputs and pointing out what works, what doesn't and what may be causing something to overperform is always welcome and can help with the process.
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The easiest option would be some reduction in base damage, combined with a proc rate on the refresh. Set the refresh chance to 20%, and set its tap damage to 50% of massacre, and the net is -120,000 damage. There are other possibilities, but the general thing is that refreshing 5 stacks of bleed is incredibly valuable (a proc could also be applied to the refresh on bite and dragon's bite, though dragon's bite would probably want to scale with charge time; bite has rupture effects so no need).
I don't know if the game allows this, but something like refreshing the bleed with the lowest remaining duration (instead of all stacks) would work nicely.
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Block timing explained
TBH, stack refreshes should probably just go away, they're almost always balance problems. It would mean people would actually use ruptures, too.
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Block timing explained
In other words, it's a change that would promote the use of Eviscerate's rupture instead of just tapping it for a bleed refresh.
Was thinking about the the other night and thought that if something were to happen, it would likely be to the duration Eviscerate can refresh bleed/shredded. Refreshes do not have to refresh the full amount, but the amount does have to be static.
Bleed dps is a bit higher since I forgot enrage improves bleed damage. This time I build bleed after first getting 8 enrage stacks.
Since there were some questions about annihilate's low damage I did a retest. And I was able to push it up a few hundred, but still under haymaker and way under massacre.
The other thing is that below a certain duration the odds of losing all your stacks rises substantially.
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I will say that it wouldn't be good for the long term if things stayed like this, so we'll just have to see and hold them to some feedback.
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
My super cool CC build and how to use it.