Archetype vs Freeform

sfd · August 2016

Hi, I'm a rather new player and so was wondering: while there are obviously a bunch of advantages making a Freeform character over an Archetype, is there any advantage that makes Archetype better under certain circumstances? Or is Freeform always superior (besides the fact that you don't need to figure out the direction yourself)?

I guess what I'm wondering is: if I'm gold and can make a Freeform every time, is there any circumstance when I should consider making an Archetype?

Thank you.

chaosdrgnz43 · August 2016

Freeform is good if you want more flexibility in making various builds and such. If you got tired of your current build, you can just change it. Whereas ATs are stuck with their designed power line-up. ATs are like a training wheels to give you the feel of a specified role.

However, ATs have less Diminishing Returns than FFs. Meaning they gain more from stacking stats. Making certain ATs like Unleashed or Tempest to out damage other FF dps builds. Downside to that is, DPS ATs are quite squishy.

In my opinion, if you want to make a rather hard hitting dps(and don't mind being squishy) just go AT. If you want to crowd control or tank better, go FF.

decorumfriends · August 2016

chaosdrgnz43 said:
However, ATs have less Diminishing Returns than FFs. Meaning they gain more from stacking stats.

Could you explain that in a little more detail, please (or point me in the direction of more info)? I was completely unaware that DR affected ATs less.

rtma · August 2016

decorumfriends said:

chaosdrgnz43 said:
However, ATs have less Diminishing Returns than FFs. Meaning they gain more from stacking stats.
Could you explain that in a little more detail, please (or point me in the direction of more info)? I was completely unaware that DR affected ATs less.

A simple test I did on PTS indicates the damage difference, both built exactly the same, a Unleashed AT and FF version, both with Samurai Gear Prime and Second, Debuff Combo (Shredded) built upto 8stack of Focus on test Dummy followed by a Dragon Wrath fully charged (Rank 3) resulted Crits about -
Free Form - Your Dragon's Wrath deals 10516 (9803) Slashing Damage to Test Dummy.
Archtype - Your Dragon's Wrath deals 15491 (14441) Slashing Damage to Test Dummy.
Wonder why this makes me a tad unhappy at times, making Free-forms specialized leaves less desirable results then how AT's are scaled.

sterga · August 2016

If you are going to switch between gold and silver subs, having an AT will be handy for being able to play while silver. ATs are useful for trying different powers. Otherwise, go FF. Sure, ATs can theoretically do more damage, but then you leave the Power House and find enemies that hit back.

Even if you simply pilfer an AT's powers for a FF, you can still fix all of the problems an AT has. Change the power order for a better leveling experience. Dump stats for better choices. Swap terrible tree choices for good ones. Replace redundant / icky powers.

I'm a silver player and I hardly ever play the ATs that I have. The only real exception is my soldier to sniper tank Frosticus in Fire and Ice. But I pretty much never do F&I anymore.

decorumfriends · August 2016

rtma said:

decorumfriends said:

chaosdrgnz43 said:
However, ATs have less Diminishing Returns than FFs. Meaning they gain more from stacking stats.
Could you explain that in a little more detail, please (or point me in the direction of more info)? I was completely unaware that DR affected ATs less.

A simple test I did on PTS indicates the damage difference, both built exactly the same, a Unleashed AT and FF version, both with Samurai Gear Prime and Second, Debuff Combo (Shredded) built upto 8stack of Focus on test Dummy followed by a Dragon Wrath fully charged (Rank 3) resulted Crits about -
Free Form - Your Dragon's Wrath deals 10516 (9803) Slashing Damage to Test Dummy.
Archtype - Your Dragon's Wrath deals 15491 (14441) Slashing Damage to Test Dummy.
Wonder why this makes me a tad unhappy at times, making Free-forms specialized leaves less desirable results then how AT's are scaled.

That's...considerable. Is it like that with all the stats? Where can I find the DR thresholds (when they start diminishing)?

rtma · August 2016

decorumfriends said:

rtma said:

decorumfriends said:

chaosdrgnz43 said:
However, ATs have less Diminishing Returns than FFs. Meaning they gain more from stacking stats.
Could you explain that in a little more detail, please (or point me in the direction of more info)? I was completely unaware that DR affected ATs less.

A simple test I did on PTS indicates the damage difference, both built exactly the same, a Unleashed AT and FF version, both with Samurai Gear Prime and Second, Debuff Combo (Shredded) built upto 8stack of Focus on test Dummy followed by a Dragon Wrath fully charged (Rank 3) resulted Crits about -
Free Form - Your Dragon's Wrath deals 10516 (9803) Slashing Damage to Test Dummy.
Archtype - Your Dragon's Wrath deals 15491 (14441) Slashing Damage to Test Dummy.
Wonder why this makes me a tad unhappy at times, making Free-forms specialized leaves less desirable results then how AT's are scaled.
That's...considerable. Is it like that with all the stats? Where can I find the DR thresholds (when they start diminishing)?

Mmhmm, Well, from what I've gathered from others that have tested, for Freeforms, Raw stat bonuses start to diminish at 70+ Super Stat Points which is called a soft cap (Str/Ego/Pre which is most noticeable, CC is unaffected due to Static Hold HP), while AT's don't have or suffer as much, Con, Rec, End are the only super stats that don't have Diminishing returns for everybody.

decorumfriends · August 2016

Thanks very much. This is helpful information to me.

markhawkman · August 2016

I suppose this is why most FF builds have active offense powers and stuff to amp up their damage?

markhawkman · August 2016

bluegrassbeast said:
It's a confirmed glitch. They've just yet to bother hunting it down in the morass that is CO's code so as to squash it.

#PicsOrItDidn'tHappen

rtma · August 2016

markhawkman said:
I suppose this is why most FF builds have active offense powers and stuff to amp up their damage?

Ego Surge(+Adv)... that and gravitate towards Defense cause boosting offense only gives so much thanks to DR's.

chuckwolf · September 2016

There is actually one aspect where ATs have an advantage over Freeforms. Even though ATs get less Powers than FF they both get the same number of Advantage points meaning the ATs can raise more of their available powers to R3. FFs have to be choosy as to where to put the points.

markhawkman · September 2016

yeah, that's a good point actually.

riverocean · September 2016

While it's true that AT's can potentially outperform FF's DPS wise.. in practice it's not quite as simple.

If you choose a DPS AT like the Inferno, the Soldier, or the Tempest -- you will be extremely squishy. Not only that you will also be an aggro magnet. And you will have not way to self-heal or wipe aggro once you get it. With improvements and upgrades that various mobs have received lately that's a death-wish combo.

You can't DPS anything if you are dead for most of the encounter.

Now there is one AT that is a far superior to a FF built the same way -- The Savage. This is my opinion but here you go. Thanks to all the buffs that Bestial has received and the DR issue with AT's -- the savage is incredible. Play a Savage AT and you are a self-healing dps monster. It gets good early and never really lets up. So if you're itching to let your inner Wolverine out -- play a Savage.

The new Icicle AT is probably the best of the lot as far a ranged DPS ATs go (with the Soldier my runner-rup). It's the most balanced and best designed range AT. I'm surprised we don't see it more but it's a premium AT. Not too many people want ot pay money for an AT they can't customize.

Invincibles and Glaciers aren't bad either. The Glacier is a lot better than it has a right to be by just looking at the stats. While playing an invincible satisfies those who love Iron Man. Both have great DPS for being in Tank role. But I'd still choose a well designed FF over either one.

So the only AT that I'd recommend over a FF is the Savage. The rest are OK - but a well-built FF outshines them every time.

decorumfriends · September 2016

riverocean said:
While it's true that AT's can potentially outperform FF's DPS wise.. in practice it's not quite as simple.

If you choose a DPS AT like the Inferno, the Soldier, or the Tempest -- you will be extremely squishy. Not only that you will also be an aggro magnet. And you will have not way to self-heal or wipe aggro once you get it.

Stop shooting and run away.

I've seen too many people complain about being an "aggro magnet" that insist on continuing to blast away continuously.

riverocean · September 2016

decorumfriends said:

riverocean said:
While it's true that AT's can potentially outperform FF's DPS wise.. in practice it's not quite as simple.

If you choose a DPS AT like the Inferno, the Soldier, or the Tempest -- you will be extremely squishy. Not only that you will also be an aggro magnet. And you will have not way to self-heal or wipe aggro once you get it.
Stop shooting and run away.

I've seen too many people complain about being an "aggro magnet" that insist on continuing to blast away continuously.

Yes.. and then you drag mobs and bosses all over the map annoying your team mates. The best bet is to stop shooting and BLOCK.

decorumfriends · September 2016

True, true. I tend to go more for "break line of sight" on my Soldier (because I'm usually far away when they "notice" me), but yeah, "stop and block" works as well (and, as you note, tends to hold them in place).

chuckwolf · September 2016

riverocean said:
While it's true that AT's can potentially outperform FF's DPS wise.. in practice it's not quite as simple.

If you choose a DPS AT like the Inferno, the Soldier, or the Tempest -- you will be extremely squishy. Not only that you will also be an aggro magnet. And you will have not way to self-heal or wipe aggro once you get it. With improvements and upgrades that various mobs have received lately that's a death-wish combo.

You can't DPS anything if you are dead for most of the encounter.

Now there is one AT that is a far superior to a FF built the same way -- The Savage. This is my opinion but here you go. Thanks to all the buffs that Bestial has received and the DR issue with AT's -- the savage is incredible. Play a Savage AT and you are a self-healing dps monster. It gets good early and never really lets up. So if you're itching to let your inner Wolverine out -- play a Savage.

The new Icicle AT is probably the best of the lot as far a ranged DPS ATs go (with the Soldier my runner-rup). It's the most balanced and best designed range AT. I'm surprised we don't see it more but it's a premium AT. Not too many people want ot pay money for an AT they can't customize.

Invincibles and Glaciers aren't bad either. The Glacier is a lot better than it has a right to be by just looking at the stats. While playing an invincible satisfies those who love Iron Man. Both have great DPS for being in Tank role. But I'd still choose a well designed FF over either one.

So the only AT that I'd recommend over a FF is the Savage. The rest are OK - but a well-built FF outshines them every time.

This is one reason If you prefer playing a ranged AT I recommend the Impulse with Personal Force Field as the passive. You give up some damage but more than make up for it in survivability especially after level 14 when you get IDF. 99% of mobs can't even touch you (only Viper brickbusters)

chuckwolf · September 2016

gradii said:
Impulse is just TERRIBLE damage though, I blame END primary.

You're right about damage, it needed EGO primary, END and REC secondaries Forget INT cooldown and cost reductions aren't that much since the nerf. But for pure survivability only the Savage can beat it as far as AT's go.

rtma · September 2016

gradii said:
Impulse is just TERRIBLE damage though, I blame END primary.

Until they review Force and give it a Energy unlock (Something like Kinetic Reverb, trigger once every 3 secs, burst of energy from a Ranged Crushing knock attempt, scale with END or REC whatever is higher but is affected by Ego. could swap Rec with Ego, whatever works.), going to have to make do...

riverocean · September 2016

Just ran a couple of my AT's through a few events.

Right now the Soldier is my favorite DPS AT. it's free and does it job well. Also comes with smoke grenade to help with aggro. So it's a very well put together little AT. As long as I block quickly enough he doesn't face plant too often.

The Void and Scourge are neck-and-neck as my runners up. Even though the Void is a hybrid, its decent DPS. The scourge is well-built and great for wiping out trash mobs. Shadow Blast on the Void can do decent DPS even in Hybrid. It can also reliably self-heal with life-drain.

I really want to try the new Icicle AT. I have two Glaciers both in the 30's, so I might convert one into the Ranged DPS version.

chaelk · October 2016

team mates are not an issue when you are levelling by yourself with missions.
this is my silver acct list so far, i have a penitent, void and glacier to finish yet.
1. Cactus Jac-(Jacqueline)- wiped and redone as Ranged support, damage plus heal, res and palliate
2. Scruffy- Icicle AT. (Works well) Nemesis of Soriffee(Scruffy- Inferno)
3. Soriffee(Scruffy)-Inferno At- nemesis of Scruffy Ice.
4. W.I.C.- Soldier AT- MIB WIC
5. Spiky- Grimoire AT-
6. Oriana - Tempest At
7. Alien - Marksman AT
8. Temero- Cursed At
9. Sans Limits- Unleashed AT
10.Iocus- Specialist At
11. Thumper_ devastator AT, also a Rabbit
12. Stripes- Predator AT
13. Sorrifee - Radiant at
14.Y.K.Y.G.P.W. -Rocker at
15.Curtana- Blade at
16. Puff - Squall at

it all depends on how you play.

Archetype vs Freeform

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