Ebon Ruin's pet thing turned out to be a bad idea, but only because pet AI is dumb.
Yeah no, the pet is fantastic in spite of the AI being dumb. It's literally the difference between ER being an ability that's useful in many different ways vs "just another basic dps power."
Actually, in practice the pet is the difference between "great dps power" and "power you're not allowed to use in 2/3 cosmics" o3o
I personally wouldnt have an issue with costly advantage points if power looks got better by how many ranks and advantages you get instead of just ranks although they may need to lower the cost of certain things to do just that.
Personally, I'd like to see all powers (well most) set to Rank 3 by default so that people could pick fun advantages rather than mandatory and uninteresting power boosts. But that's beyond the scope of this topic.
Ebon Ruin's pet thing turned out to be a bad idea, but only because pet AI is dumb.
Yeah no, the pet is fantastic in spite of the AI being dumb. It's literally the difference between ER being an ability that's useful in many different ways vs "just another basic dps power."
Actually, in practice the pet is the difference between "great dps power" and "power you're not allowed to use in 2/3 cosmics" o3o
Different powers have strengths and weaknesses in different aspects of gameplay. The good news is that you don't need to use Ebon Ruin if you don't like how it works!
o3o
(Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
Actually, in practice the pet is the difference between "great dps power" and "power you're not allowed to use in 2/3 cosmics" o3o
No, it's really "mediocre dps power". The previous version was also a mediocre dps power. The pet should probably be a 2p advantage and the base damage ramped up by 20% (so R2 + adv would be the same damage as current R3)
Different powers have strengths and weaknesses in different aspects of gameplay. The good news is that you don't need to use Ebon Ruin if you don't like how it works!
o3o
No, bad Aesica. "makes a fight unwinnable" is not something you can just choose not to use if you don't like how it works. It's something you have to stop using, or you can't win.
Actually, in practice the pet is the difference between "great dps power" and "power you're not allowed to use in 2/3 cosmics" o3o
No, it's really "mediocre dps power". The previous version was also a mediocre dps power. The pet should probably be a 2p advantage and the base damage ramped up by 20% (so R2 + adv would be the same damage as current R3)
Actually, in practice the pet is the difference between "great dps power" and "power you're not allowed to use in 2/3 cosmics" o3o
No, it's really "mediocre dps power". The previous version was also a mediocre dps power. The pet should probably be a 2p advantage and the base damage ramped up by 20% (so R2 + adv would be the same damage as current R3)
The chance to pop out the pet would need to be 100% on a full charge then, regardless of rank. Currently, it's 50% at R1, 75% at R2, and 100% at R3, making R3 pretty much required if you want to be sure the pet pops out every time.
Having said that, I'd endorse that kind of change, as it makes the power useful for people who just want a spammable nuke while retaining the niche functionality people like me get out of it--solid healing over time plus an on-demand punching bag to waste enemy pack knock/stun cooldowns.
No, bad Aesica. "makes a fight unwinnable" is not something you can just choose not to use if you don't like how it works. It's something you have to stop using, or you can't win.
You just love to argue, don't you? There's plenty of other powers that also aren't useful vs your giant animal hunts besides Ebon Ruin. So...don't use those powers and move on, maybe? Not every ability needs to be terraformed to be useful for a single, tiny aspect of gameplay. As long as they're useful in some way to people, that's all that really matters.
(Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
I personally wouldnt have an issue with costly advantage points if power looks got better by how many ranks and advantages you get instead of just ranks although they may need to lower the cost of certain things to do just that.
Personally, I'd like to see all powers (well most) set to Rank 3 by default so that people could pick fun advantages rather than mandatory and uninteresting power boosts. But that's beyond the scope of this topic.
Ebon Ruin's pet thing turned out to be a bad idea, but only because pet AI is dumb.
Yeah no, the pet is fantastic in spite of the AI being dumb. It's literally the difference between ER being an ability that's useful in many different ways vs "just another basic dps power."
Actually, in practice the pet is the difference between "great dps power" and "power you're not allowed to use in 2/3 cosmics" o3o
Different powers have strengths and weaknesses in different aspects of gameplay. The good news is that you don't need to use Ebon Ruin if you don't like how it works!
o3o
Well I guess some people like me prefer it to look more powerful as you put points in it, I dont want it just given to me.
Well I guess some people like me prefer it to look more powerful as you put points in it, I dont want it just given to me.
I'm talking strictly in terms of throughput value. Scaling the visuals to R2 for 2-3 points, or R3 for 4-5 points would be fine, but in terms of performance, there shouldn't be multiple ranks. Not only does it soak up advantage points that could go into more interesting choices, it also hurts low-level characters because they're weak enough without all the specialization unlocks, superstats, etc in addition to not having their core abilities fully ranked yet.
(Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
'useful' and 'makes the fight fail' are very close in your mind aren't they? It's one thing if all a power does is summon a pet, but if the primary function of a power is to be a nuke and a secondary effect is what causes an entire encounter to reliably fail then that's quite a bit different. If you pulled your head out of your butt and stopped blaming the fact that I disagree with you on your narcissistic belief that someone wants to argue with you just to do it, you might see things like that.
I'm talking strictly in terms of throughput value. Scaling the visuals to R2 for 2-3 points, or R3 for 4-5 points would be fine, but in terms of performance, there shouldn't be multiple ranks. Not only does it soak up advantage points that could go into more interesting choices, it also hurts low-level characters because they're weak enough without all the specialization unlocks, superstats, etc in addition to not having their core abilities fully ranked yet.
On the other hand, giving us the ability to prioritize powers by having their base function be higher or lower gives us that wonderful extra touch of customization. Just think of it this way: a power doing more damage is just another type of utility.
...I wouldn't buy that for a wooden nickel, Spinny.
It's actually not a terrible idea on paper, but in practice it's a matter of balancing.
My solution? Remove the five point cap and stick on more ranks-R3/R4/R5, etc. If I want triple-base-damage piercing eyebeams but no other powers above baseline? Let's do it!
So then you agree with me. Great!
Fun fact: That is actually an idea I submitted in the suggestions forum years ago. There was a bit more to it of course but that was the basic concept.
'useful' and 'makes the fight fail' are very close in your mind aren't they? It's one thing if all a power does is summon a pet, but if the primary function of a power is to be a nuke and a secondary effect is what causes an entire encounter to reliably fail then that's quite a bit different.
Then. Don't. Use. It. On. Encounters. It. Can. Ruin.
LOL it's not a hard concept, but you're either arguing to argue, or you failed to see the post where I basically agreed with Pantagruel's proposal to separate the shadow-summoning component into a 2 point advantage.
On the other hand, giving us the ability to prioritize powers by having their base function be higher or lower gives us that wonderful extra touch of customization.
Except that's not really how it really works. Anyone with any common sense will nearly always take R2/R3 on their primary damage abilities (unless some side advantage offers a higher overall DPS gain than R3) while skipping R2/R3 on powers with a wide assortment of useful utility advantages.
When's the last time you took a non-damage-boosting utility advantages on your primary dps abilities instead of R2/R3? Or when did you last take R2/R3 on say, a gap closer like Void Shift instead of a utility advantage like Emerging Nightmares? When's the last time you took R2/R3 on your naturally-stacking dps form?
Just think of it this way: a power doing more damage is just another type of utility.
No, it's not. Applying a damage boost to a dps-centric power means that power is now executing its primary function with increased throughput. Increased utility would mean taking on an additional (utility) role in lieu of the aforementioned throughput gain.
(Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
Well I guess some people like me prefer it to look more powerful as you put points in it, I dont want it just given to me.
I'm talking strictly in terms of throughput value. Scaling the visuals to R2 for 2-3 points, or R3 for 4-5 points would be fine, but in terms of performance, there shouldn't be multiple ranks. Not only does it soak up advantage points that could go into more interesting choices, it also hurts low-level characters because they're weak enough without all the specialization unlocks, superstats, etc in addition to not having their core abilities fully ranked yet.
'useful' and 'makes the fight fail' are very close in your mind aren't they? It's one thing if all a power does is summon a pet, but if the primary function of a power is to be a nuke and a secondary effect is what causes an entire encounter to reliably fail then that's quite a bit different.
Then. Don't. Use. It. On. Encounters. It. Can. Ruin.
LOL it's not a hard concept, but you're either arguing to argue, or you failed to see the post where I basically agreed with Pantagruel's proposal to separate the shadow-summoning component into a 2 point advantage.
On the other hand, giving us the ability to prioritize powers by having their base function be higher or lower gives us that wonderful extra touch of customization.
Except that's not really how it really works. Anyone with any common sense will nearly always take R2/R3 on their primary damage abilities (unless some side advantage offers a higher overall DPS gain than R3) while skipping R2/R3 on powers with a wide assortment of useful utility advantages.
When's the last time you took a non-damage-boosting utility advantages on your primary dps abilities instead of R2/R3? Or when did you last take R2/R3 on say, a gap closer like Void Shift instead of a utility advantage like Emerging Nightmares? When's the last time you took R2/R3 on your naturally-stacking dps form?
Just think of it this way: a power doing more damage is just another type of utility.
No, it's not. Applying a damage boost to a dps-centric power means that power is now executing its primary function with increased throughput. Increased utility would mean taking on an additional (utility) role in lieu of the aforementioned throughput gain.
For clarity, I don't agree with Spinny that 'damage is another form of utility'.
I do agree with the idea apparently previously suggested.
So wait, you agree with the idea that power ranks increasing damage should be removed, or you agree with the idea that one to two more additional powers ranks that increase damage should be added? I'm confused now o3o
Except that's not really how it really works. Anyone with any common sense will nearly always take R2/R3 on their primary damage abilities
Yep, because increased damage is the kind of utility they need from those abilities. When it comes to all the other attacks their character has though that may not be the case. Simple concept ey? Hence why damage ranks are a choice - because not everyone has just 1 primary nuke and 1 aoe.
I agree with the notion that there should be more than two ranks for each power and no or a much higher cap on advantage points spent per-power with utility advantages in addition to that - Say, for example since almost all attack powers have one advantage, you could have an attack power - say, eyebeams. You could sink a total of 10 Advantage points into the power for a net double damage base, then could spend two more for 20/20 Fission. Then you're going to have really godly eyebeams - but some other powers will be left at base level due tonot having the adv. points to boost them- the points going to the eyebeams instead.
The drawback to this is that it encourages 1 trick pony character building and any future gameplay challenges would have to be designed around the idea that sinking every point into a primary dps ability is the right thing to do. As a result, sinking less than everything you can into your dps abilities becomes a mistake as enemy HP pools massively inflate to accommodate greatly increased player damage output. Overall, characters will have fewer utility options than ever as everyone dumps every point they can manage into their favorite dps power, leaving everything else at rank 1.
I'd argue that the 5 point advantage cap per power should be raised to 6, but that's just so the mandatory Rank 3 doesn't completely shut out the option of a utility-based 2-point advantage. But definitely no ranks above 3.
(Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
I'd argue that the 5 point advantage cap per power should be raised to 6, but that's just so the mandatory Rank 3 doesn't completely shut out the option of a utility-based 2-point advantage. But definitely no ranks above 3.
So your solution to people feeling like they have to get max rank in a power instead of picking between rank 3 and a utility advantage, is to make it so that people can always get max rank in a power and a utility advantage... i.e. make people feel like they have to get max rank in a power, and a utility.
So your solution to people feeling like they have to get max rank in a power instead of picking between rank 3 and a utility advantage, is to make it so that people can always get max rank in a power and a utility advantage... i.e. make people feel like they have to get max rank in a power, and a utility.
No, my solution is for "max rank" to not even exist, so instead, people can pick the types of utility (f any) they want on their powers.
To use an example from another thread: Your Ebon Ruin could apply Fear while mine could summon shadow pets. That's an interesting choice as opposed to mandatory ranks required to make your powers deal damage/healing at their fully-intended strength.
(Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
No, my solution is for "max rank" to not even exist, so instead, people can pick the types of utility (f any) they want on their powers.
To use an example from another thread: Your Ebon Ruin could apply Fear while mine could summon shadow pets. That's an interesting choice as opposed to mandatory ranks required to make your powers deal damage/healing at their fully-intended strength.
People can already pick the types of utility they want on their powers. There's really no reason to reduce the number of choices players can make when building their characters. Players don't need rank 3 damage on all their powers. You're trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist.
No, my solution is for "max rank" to not even exist, so instead, people can pick the types of utility (f any) they want on their powers.
To use an example from another thread: Your Ebon Ruin could apply Fear while mine could summon shadow pets. That's an interesting choice as opposed to mandatory ranks required to make your powers deal damage/healing at their fully-intended strength.
People can already pick the types of utility they want on their powers. There's really no reason to reduce the number of choices players can make when building their characters. Players don't need rank 3 damage on all their powers. You're trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist.
I wish they could make the rank 1 through 3 seperate somehow.
People can already pick the types of utility they want on their powers. There's really no reason to reduce the number of choices players can make when building their characters. Players don't need rank 3 damage on all their powers. You're trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist.
Maybe, but it's a case of "the right choice" vs "the wrong choice."
You carefully dodged around it last time, so I'll just go ahead and copypaste it again:
When's the last time you took non-damage-boosting utility advantages on your primary dps abilities instead of R2/R3? Or when did you last take R2/R3 on say, a gap closer like Void Shift instead of a utility advantage like Emerging Nightmares? When's the last time you took R2/R3 on your naturally-stacking dps form? What about your energy builder?
So is picking R2/R3 vs utility advantages really a meaningful choice, or is it a way to trap people who may not know what they're doing into making mistakes?
(Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
Sometimes R2+assorted ad actually gives better DPS. But yeah the question is a bit off since you started with "DPS power" and asked about non-damaging ads....
When's the last time you took non-damage-boosting utility advantages on your primary dps abilities instead of R2/R3? Or when did you last take R2/R3 on say, a gap closer like Void Shift instead of a utility advantage like Emerging Nightmares? When's the last time you took R2/R3 on your naturally-stacking dps form? What about your energy builder?
So what you're saying is that there should be some sort of system where we can choose to give our primary DPS abilities Advantages that make them do the most damage, and other powers do other things when we don't think they need to do rank 3 damage? Cause what you typed doesn't say "everything needs to be rank 3" to me. The very fact that I didn't take rank 3 on those powers means they don't need to be rank 3.
Sounds to me like we need to simply scrap the current system and start over with something that makes some sense and dodges the pitfalls from the outset.
Sounds to me like we need to simply scrap the current system and start over with something that makes some sense and dodges the pitfalls from the outset.
Sequel time?
This plan has a fatal flaw.... As Starlord would say "It's only 5% of a plan". "Something that makes sense" is a lot of pondering and tinkering. Saying it is easy..... the level of planning required? nah, I'd rather just tinker with the current system.
Sounds to me like we need to simply scrap the current system and start over with something that makes some sense and dodges the pitfalls from the outset.
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My super cool CC build and how to use it.
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Having said that, I'd endorse that kind of change, as it makes the power useful for people who just want a spammable nuke while retaining the niche functionality people like me get out of it--solid healing over time plus an on-demand punching bag to waste enemy pack knock/stun cooldowns. You just love to argue, don't you? There's plenty of other powers that also aren't useful vs your giant animal hunts besides Ebon Ruin. So...don't use those powers and move on, maybe? Not every ability needs to be terraformed to be useful for a single, tiny aspect of gameplay. As long as they're useful in some way to people, that's all that really matters.
Almost the fecking same just as stupid \o\
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
On the other hand, giving us the ability to prioritize powers by having their base function be higher or lower gives us that wonderful extra touch of customization. Just think of it this way: a power doing more damage is just another type of utility.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Fun fact: That is actually an idea I submitted in the suggestions forum years ago. There was a bit more to it of course but that was the basic concept.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Don't.
Use.
It.
On.
Encounters.
It.
Can.
Ruin.
LOL it's not a hard concept, but you're either arguing to argue, or you failed to see the post where I basically agreed with Pantagruel's proposal to separate the shadow-summoning component into a 2 point advantage. Except that's not really how it really works. Anyone with any common sense will nearly always take R2/R3 on their primary damage abilities (unless some side advantage offers a higher overall DPS gain than R3) while skipping R2/R3 on powers with a wide assortment of useful utility advantages.
When's the last time you took a non-damage-boosting utility advantages on your primary dps abilities instead of R2/R3? Or when did you last take R2/R3 on say, a gap closer like Void Shift instead of a utility advantage like Emerging Nightmares? When's the last time you took R2/R3 on your naturally-stacking dps form? No, it's not. Applying a damage boost to a dps-centric power means that power is now executing its primary function with increased throughput. Increased utility would mean taking on an additional (utility) role in lieu of the aforementioned throughput gain.
I agree.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
I'd argue that the 5 point advantage cap per power should be raised to 6, but that's just so the mandatory Rank 3 doesn't completely shut out the option of a utility-based 2-point advantage. But definitely no ranks above 3.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
To use an example from another thread: Your Ebon Ruin could apply Fear while mine could summon shadow pets. That's an interesting choice as opposed to mandatory ranks required to make your powers deal damage/healing at their fully-intended strength.
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My super cool CC build and how to use it.
You carefully dodged around it last time, so I'll just go ahead and copypaste it again:
When's the last time you took non-damage-boosting utility advantages on your primary dps abilities instead of R2/R3? Or when did you last take R2/R3 on say, a gap closer like Void Shift instead of a utility advantage like Emerging Nightmares? When's the last time you took R2/R3 on your naturally-stacking dps form? What about your energy builder?
So is picking R2/R3 vs utility advantages really a meaningful choice, or is it a way to trap people who may not know what they're doing into making mistakes?
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Sequel time?
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
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My characters
My super cool CC build and how to use it.