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Poll: Archetype Solo Difficulty

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  • aesicaaesica Posts: 2,537 Arc User

    I'm not going to annotate your videos for you, Spinny. I'm not actually watching them. What you're doing here is spamming questions and demanding responses in the hope of tiring other people out and making them stop disagreeing with you.

    This pretty much seems like Spinny's favorite past time. They're the type of person who 1) always has to be right, and 2) feeds on attention. A pretty disgusting and loathsome combination of character traits. ;)
    (Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,915 Arc User
    The real question is whether Spinny is in fact right. Nothing makes someone more annoying than being right when you're wrong. :p
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  • reiwulfreiwulf Posts: 442 Arc User
    I actually have no idea what you guys are even arguing about anymore.
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  • biffsmackwellbiffsmackwell Posts: 4,739 Arc User

    The real question is whether Spinny is in fact right. Nothing makes someone more annoying than being right when you're wrong. :p

    Well, the videos do prove that soloing with a low-level archetype is, in fact, not difficult... for him.
    biffsig.jpg
  • beezeezebeezeeze Posts: 927 Arc User
    I find most of westside pretty easy on any ATs I have played past level 8(when all the ATs I have played get their passive ability) wayland talos can be sort of challenging before that on certain ATs and I've died plenty of times to Kevin Poe(for me personally the Mind I tried to level had the most trouble with Poe) but I still manage to beat him by myself eventually(even with the Mind) I feel like my skill level is fairly average. Maybe I just have more determination than some others... and dying a bunch of times in a video game has never really bothered me.

  • biffsmackwellbiffsmackwell Posts: 4,739 Arc User
    Yeah Talos and Poe can be difficult, especially Poe for a new player, because they don't really know what they're getting into running into that room. I've died to these guys on my freeforms, but I'm pretty reckless when I play also.
    biffsig.jpg
  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 7,065 Arc User
    I think in all of this, you have to take into account player skill.

    What Player 1 may find super easy, either through previous experience or just gaming skill, may be very difficult to accomplish for Player 2.

    Each AT (to an extent) plays differently so whilst some may find...The Mind AT a complete bore because they want something more dynamic...they may love the Unleashed AT or Inferno AT.

    Honestly, I think I'd be a little :scream: , if I was coming to CO for the first time NOW without any previous experience with the game or games like it.

    In fact, I encountered someone who actually quit CO today because it was too difficult for them (they were level 13) and there were "too many things" for powers.

    So there's all sorts out there.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited August 2016

    The real question is whether Spinny is in fact right. Nothing makes someone more annoying than being right when you're wrong. :p

    They're basically saying I'm too good at the game to be able to join a discussion about how difficult content is ( at least that's what magpie is saying ). Basically a fun tactic to try to get people who know a lot about the game out of the conversation in order to bias the topic towards people on the lower end of the success gradient. Folks have tried it a lot throughout the years.

    I mean, people are stubbornly and repeatedly saying I'm great, can you blame me for being motivated to continue to engage them? :smiley:
  • biffsmackwellbiffsmackwell Posts: 4,739 Arc User

    Honestly, I think I'd be a little :scream: , if I was coming to CO for the first time NOW without any previous experience with the game or games like it.

    Before Champions, the only MMOs I'd played were WoW and CoH. I had a hell of a time trying to stay alive in Champs. There's just so damn much going on with the game, and all the powers. This was back when defensive passives were basically required to not die at any given moment. I had no idea how a guy could run into some place, kill everything in sight, then keep going like nothing happened. I was dying just doing normal missions.

    A little knowledge can go a long way.
    spinnytop said:

    I mean, people are stubbornly and repeatedly saying I'm great, can you blame me for being motivated to continue to engage them? :smiley:

    Nobody said you're great for gunning down low-level mooks. You have experience that the inexperienced obviously don't.

    You've done this a thousand times, and your MO is always the same. State that x content is not "too hard." State that you're dead center "average player". Pump up your ego whenever anyone that finds that content difficult by saying things like "I don't know why people think I'm so good! Gosh, I'm some sort of amazing player, apparently!"

    The routine is old and tired. Cut it out, ding-dong.
    biffsig.jpg
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,915 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    beezeeze said:

    I find most of westside pretty easy on any ATs I have played past level 8(when all the ATs I have played get their passive ability) wayland talos can be sort of challenging before that on certain ATs and I've died plenty of times to Kevin Poe(for me personally the Mind I tried to level had the most trouble with Poe) but I still manage to beat him by myself eventually(even with the Mind) I feel like my skill level is fairly average. Maybe I just have more determination than some others... and dying a bunch of times in a video game has never really bothered me.

    It's all about strategy. On a specialist, I NEED to run in guns blazing and hit things with everything I've got. But Grimoire? I need to stay outside the room and pick off the mooks before I engage Poe.

    Part of learning to play is learning to strategize. Some characters do well when they target the big guy first and treat the others as collateral damage, some need to massacre mooks, then take out their boss. Also there's the specifics of combat positioning. As Spinny cheerfully demonstrated, knowing where to be and when to be there is important.
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  • aesicaaesica Posts: 2,537 Arc User
    spinnytop said:

    I mean, people are stubbornly and repeatedly saying I'm great, can you blame me for being motivated to continue to engage them? :smiley:

    Obnoxious and narcissistic maybe, but hardly great.
    (Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
  • magpieuk2014magpieuk2014 Posts: 1,268 Arc User
    take your AT for a spin in whiteout or fatal error ASAP. I know you can do it! You might die a few times... or a lot, but use every trick and devices you can get your hands on! That I think would be a good(& challenging) test for an AT.

    I have! I took my Rockstar AT into Whiteout. On Elite, by mistake (I always forget how the Adventure Packs love to lock you in). Same experience as when I first did it four years ago - brilliant fun up to a point. And that point is the bit you can't get past (without creative work, any way). The last time I did it was with a Grimoire (self-heal ahoy!), relatively painless until the final boss. Which I got past with the aid of an un-nerfed Backup! This time it all ground to a halt at the start of #4... Roin'esh Commander and his 20K health is a bit much for a melee toon. Will come back to it in a few levels or so...
  • nephtnepht Posts: 6,883 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    aesica said:

    I'm not going to annotate your videos for you, Spinny. I'm not actually watching them. What you're doing here is spamming questions and demanding responses in the hope of tiring other people out and making them stop disagreeing with you.

    This pretty much seems like Spinny's favorite past time. They're the type of person who 1) always has to be right, and 2) feeds on attention. A pretty disgusting and loathsome combination of character traits. ;)



    nepht_siggy_v6_by_nepht-dbbz19n.jpg
    Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
    They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
    I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 7,065 Arc User

    Honestly, I think I'd be a little :scream: , if I was coming to CO for the first time NOW without any previous experience with the game or games like it.

    Before Champions, the only MMOs I'd played were WoW and CoH. I had a hell of a time trying to stay alive in Champs. There's just so damn much going on with the game, and all the powers. This was back when defensive passives were basically required to not die at any given moment. I had no idea how a guy could run into some place, kill everything in sight, then keep going like nothing happened. I was dying just doing normal missions.

    A little knowledge can go a long way.
    Mhm!

    I was helping someone to level today, this guy found missions on normal very very difficult for his Grimore AT, so I gave him valuable tips and we ran through quite a few missions.

    He had no idea that Eldritch Bolts wasn't meant to be his main attack and had a rough time just in what I'd look at as 'basic combat'.

    Previous experience really does impact how you view things in CO, which is why it's a good thing there are people out there and on the forums who are more than capable of helping people who first encounter CO.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,915 Arc User
    The biggest thing I screwed up as a newbie was not knowing how to use charge or maintain attacks.
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  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited August 2016

    The routine is old and tired. Cut it out, ding-dong.

    Stop making it so fun and I will.


    I guess I really am just a different breed of gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaymer, cause when I started playing CO I never had this "omg what's happening?!" period. I just read my power descriptions, then used them in the most obvious fashion. Of course, that might just have been down to mentality too - it's been well documented that while some people are all like "if it's not a heal it's useless and 90% of archetype powers are redundant and pointless" I'm the polar opposite and I actually figure out how to use what an Archetype gives me to work with. Might not be skill or experience at all, just the attitude that people approach the game with - bad news is while you can get skill and experience, changing your attitude is pretty hard, and even harder if it's one of the negative varieties. I guess that's one of the negative effects of the wave of "blame the game" mentality sweeping the nation - in its wake you get a horde of really terrible gamers who have no hope of improving.

    Don't worry Biff, I don't count you among that number because we already know the source of any difficulties you've ever had or continue to have. What makes you different from them is that you know you do it, and you admit you do it, and you pretty much do it on purpose - more importantly, you don't then blame the game for the result or imply that somebody is doing a bad job. That's why, try hard as you might, you can't have this argument with me, because I know you're not on the other side of it.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User


    Previous experience really does impact how you view things in CO, which is why it's a good thing there are people out there and on the forums who are more than capable of helping people who first encounter CO.

    I guess one of the most helpful things the tutorial could do is have a big pop up that says "Hovering over your powers on your hot bar is informative, do that some time!", cause anyone with a basic grasp of numbers would quickly deduce that their lowest damaging attack is not the best thing to use o3o
  • biffsmackwellbiffsmackwell Posts: 4,739 Arc User
    spinnytop said:

    Stop making it so fun and I will.

    I guess I really am just a different breed of gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaymer, cause when I started playing CO I never had this "omg what's happening?!" period. I just read my power descriptions, then used them in the most obvious fashion. Of course, that might just have been down to mentality too - it's been well documented that while some people are all like "if it's not a heal it's useless and 90% of archetype powers are redundant and pointless" I'm the polar opposite and I actually figure out how to use what an Archetype gives me to work with. Might not be skill or experience at all, just the attitude that people approach the game with - bad news is while you can get skill and experience, changing your attitude is pretty hard, and even harder if it's one of the negative varieties. I guess that's one of the negative effects of the wave of "blame the game" mentality sweeping the nation - in its wake you get a horde of really terrible gamers who have no hope of improving.

    Don't worry Biff, I don't count you among that number because we already know the source of any difficulties you've ever had or continue to have. What makes you different from them is that you know you do it, and you admit you do it, and you pretty much do it on purpose - more importantly, you don't then blame the game for the result or imply that somebody is doing a bad job. That's why, try hard as you might, you can't have this argument with me, because I know you're not on the other side of it.

    "The most average player"

    Regarding that last sentence, you should familiarize yourself with the concept of being objective. I'm not "trying hard" to argue with you, you muppet.

    Dull and dense as ever.
    biffsig.jpg
  • aesicaaesica Posts: 2,537 Arc User

    you muppet.

    You have no idea how absolutely perfectly that term fits, especially in this video:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bWMGmaBuqw

    See if you can spot the spinnytop! :)
    (Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
  • nephtnepht Posts: 6,883 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    aesica said:

    snip

    Smackwell and Spinny actually get on kinda semi not well in game. Trying to jump on the bandwagon either way when they are having an internet argument will result in you getting caught in the crossfire.

    In my experience here its just best to...






    nepht_siggy_v6_by_nepht-dbbz19n.jpg
    Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
    They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
    I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
  • magpieuk2014magpieuk2014 Posts: 1,268 Arc User
    That cat's spine is at a really weird angle. Was it done by a comic artist? Looks like one of those Psylocke landing poses.
  • nephtnepht Posts: 6,883 Arc User
    edited August 2016

    That cat's spine is at a really weird angle. Was it done by a comic artist? Looks like one of those Psylocke landing poses.




    Its an old reddit meme. Its just a cat that legit likes throwing squirrels. What ever floats her boat I suppose :D
    nepht_siggy_v6_by_nepht-dbbz19n.jpg
    Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
    They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
    I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
  • nephtnepht Posts: 6,883 Arc User
    spinnytop said:

    I'm the squirrel o3o

    Actually yes :D
    nepht_siggy_v6_by_nepht-dbbz19n.jpg
    Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
    They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
    I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
  • decorumfriendsdecorumfriends Posts: 2,802 Arc User
    Well, A squirrel, at any rate. :p
    'Dec out

    QDSxNpT.png
  • aesicaaesica Posts: 2,537 Arc User
    nepht said:

    Trying to jump on the bandwagon either way when they are having an internet argument will result in you getting caught in the crossfire.

    I get the feeling I've been in spinny's line of fire for some time, so from my perspective, it can't hurt to make an attack of opportunity or two when the chance arises. ;)
    (Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
  • reiwulfreiwulf Posts: 442 Arc User
    i think what could improve ATs in general is giving them more options for skills to choose from
    natesig.jpg

  • nephtnepht Posts: 6,883 Arc User
    reiwulf said:

    i think what could improve ATs in general is giving them more options for skills to choose from

    Giving them all a self heal would be a start.

    nepht_siggy_v6_by_nepht-dbbz19n.jpg
    Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
    They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
    I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
  • aesicaaesica Posts: 2,537 Arc User
    Definitely agree with more choices. The newer ATs actually have a decent selection, but all of the vanilla ones (the ones new players are using and judging the game with) are terrible and unimpressive, with all but 2-3 slots being completely set in stone.
    (Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    nepht said:

    Giving them all a self heal would be a start.

    Yeah, and then when people are still getting floored cause they play badly, they'll ask for a second heal, and then a third, lol
  • reiwulfreiwulf Posts: 442 Arc User
    I think a self heal for every class would be a good idea, either passive or active, on my savage I have never needed an active sel heal with regeneration ;D
    natesig.jpg

  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 7,065 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    Mhm, I think a general revision of when AT's get self survival increasing abilities (blocks and heals) and just how they are built would be a good idea.

    Waiting till...level 21 for a block enhancer is a bit silly IMO.

  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User

    Waiting till...level 21 for a block enhancer is a bit silly IMO.

    Not really; it's not generally one of my first priorities on any build, unless I need it to fill a prerequisite hole. Waiting until level 25 for an energy unlock is far more egregious.
  • decorumfriendsdecorumfriends Posts: 2,802 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    nepht said:



    Giving them all a self heal would be a start.

    I never understood why this is so important to people. Just buy a bunch of heals from Karneeki. Even better, now that they raised the cap from 6.

    Post edited by decorumfriends on
    'Dec out

    QDSxNpT.png
  • Hurray a AT topic. My vote is they all are subpar and horrible but this is by design. And yes I've maxed out them all what most lack is what FFs easily acquire heals, extra actives and better power choice. And guy mentioning getting trounced as a freeform it is called don't suck. You should never lose outside cosmics and randon snr bad luck as a freeform never.
  • Also having both freeforms and ats takes away from development time. Because you have to make content aka encounters managable to both. And the latter it usually balanced for teamplay which lately is lacking as the slave grind for recog is driving folks away. Aka PWE do the smart thing which long run would make you more money unless this is beyond your mental aptitude. Also quit trying be two games be one. And done with my contribution on this dead horse topic.
  • gemini2099gemini2099 Posts: 118 Arc User
    Lack of self healing is a non issue for most of the AT's. I find that melee AT's probably need more healing but what good is a heal on a melee AT if your defense or resistances are so bad?

    When people build free form melees they do select a heal first, but they also have layers of defense/resistance which makes the healing more potent.

    The Archtypes are not far from being really good as they need few tweak here and there (eg Mind having a res).
    Gemini - Lvl 4x - Soldier
    Omicron - Lvl 4x - Mind
    Emerald Myst - Lvl 2x - Claws/Fighting Hybrid
    Epsilon - Lvl 2x - Blade
    Asterius - Lvl 1x - Electric/Void Hybrid

  • catstarstocatstarsto Posts: 1,129 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    The Grim is a good archtype for the new player, its balanced enough with decent attacks and crowd control, and that dire heal power. Once you get used to the game then i would suggest Munitions and Behemoth for the next level of challenging. But if you want to spend money, id go for the Inventor since it has pets to take the heat off of and heal you while you stand in the background and debuff...not flawless but not in your face ether. But if you have money to burn, the $50 X.X freeform would be your best option in the game. So you can pick all of your needed powers. The other stuff is nice but if you get mobbed your defense can only take you so far, you need heals! And pewpew dead battery or charging up an attack while getting piled on, is for more advanced players!!




    My first archtype was the Tempest, good dps but.....I felt like i was playing Cat Mario...died died died died! =X.X= lol
    But i kept coming back because i had fun.




    Courage is doing what is right even when it isn't popular or safe. Honor is retaining the dignity and virtue in one's self, so it can light the way for others in the darkest of times. Compassion is showing patience and mercy towards others, even when it isn't returned or deserved. A hero is defined by these 3 words, they set him apart from others as a beacon of hope and excellence.
  • I can relate to the squirrel. I feel like the cat is all of you and I am the squirrel on most days.
  • But even the squirrel can get lucky sometimes.
  • Also the Grimoire is poorly designed AT good are you serious.. It gets runes which are mostly useless powers, it gets a weak aoe knockback, Skarn's Bane and Eldritch Blast only shining examples of good powers and they subpar compared other powers of similar tier. Oh forgot the Circle gives energy back 9/10 times is not even needed except for long team oriented fights.
  • xoriandruidxoriandruid Posts: 311 Arc User

    Also the Grimoire is poorly designed AT good are you serious.. It gets runes which are mostly useless powers, it gets a weak aoe knockback, Skarn's Bane and Eldritch Blast only shining examples of good powers and they subpar compared other powers of similar tier. Oh forgot the Circle gives energy back 9/10 times is not even needed except for long team oriented fights.

    Uhhh no no no, the grimore is great, what the hek are you even talking about? Its a mix of cc, dps, and heals kind of like dark.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    This post has been edited to remove content which violates the PWE Community Rules and Policies -Smackwell
  • xoriandruidxoriandruid Posts: 311 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    This post has been edited to remove content which violates the PWE Community Rules and Policies -Smackwell
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