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Teleiosaurus and DPS check
lezard21
Posts: 1,510 Arc User
This is to discuss Teleiosaurus' DPS check since it is what has been causing runs to fail for the past week (Qwyjibo runs failing are a completely different matter, since DPS is being met, but apparently it no longer is the way to proceed, but that is enough discussion for another topic on it's own).
This is the data that we were able to compile from yesterday's run around 6 PM server time (all credit goes to @Behemothking).
The fight lasted 18 minutes and we were really close to completing it before healers died, tanks died and wipe. We were able to complete it later with a smaller group though, but no one was around to gather data at that time.
I obscured names so that this didn't turn into a callout thread.
Red is DPS
Blue is Healers
Yellow is Tanks.
Black is people who were in the fight for less than 9 minutes, though their presence did have an impact in the fight (Dino Regen Shield has more Hp the more players engaged to him) I didn't include them on calcs cause it would only disperse the results.
Orange is Dipshit and I seriously considered not obscuring his name, but more on that later.
So there are a few things this tells us already.
The fight was composed for most of it of 26 DPS, 4 tanks, 6 healers and Mr. Dipshit. So that makes 37 people.
Of the 26 DPS, 3 were above the 2k damage per second mark, another 7 above 1k mark, 4 were above the 500 mark, 1 tank was above the 500 mark, and the 12 remaining DPS were below the 500 mark.
Now let's take a look at the DPS during the 5 seconds since Healing buff and actual heal happening (AKA failed to meet DPS check):
Now let's see succesful DPS checks. This are a little bit trickier to get, since no healing happens, the only indicator you can check for reference is Teleiosaurus not having any outgoing damage and a sudden increase in incoming DPS. Only 2 points were able to be determined with certainty:
If we didive these numbers over the 37 players present at the time over 5 seconds, we would get an average of 1734 - 2130 DPS per player required to break the heal.
However, of these 37 players, Tank and Healer contribution to DPS most often is minimal, not to mention we had Mr. Dipshit in this run. If we divide these numbers over the 26 active DPS players over 5 seconds we would get an average of 2468 - 3031 DPS per player required to break the heal. This is the adjusted DPS required to compensate for the number of Healer, Tanks and Dipshit in this run.
With this information, we can calculate that each DPS player required a 42% extra DPS than the minimum to compensate for the 11 players ( 6 Healers, 4 Tanks and Dipshit) that could not contribute to the DPS check on this run. Meaning that for every Healer/Tank/Dipshit present, roughly a 4% more DPS is required over the minimum.
The bare minimum required for a Teleiosaurus run is 2 Mom Tanks, 1 Baby Tank and 2 Healers. This gives us a minimum of 20% more DPS required per player to compensate, bringing us to the absolute minimum DPS per player required per run to somewhere between the 2081 - 2556 DPS mark, with an extra 4% required for every extra Healer, Tank, and Dipshit over that mark.
Now, you are probably thinking "Well, ****, that means I can't do Cosmics?". Well, yes and no. Remember, parser DPS charts are an average that take into consideration time in combat and do not discriminate downtimes like blocking or typing something in chat, and are also affected by how often you die.
What this information tell us however is that in order to properly be contributing to this fight, whenever Teleiosaurus gets her regen buff, you need to be able to deal something close to 10400 - 12780 damage over those 5 seconds, which is not something so unrealistic.
What can you do to improve?
- Block a lot during non healing parts. Yes the dino will go down slower, but it's much more better than her healing up all the progress
- Most often than not, Baby will AoE during Regen phase. DO NOT BLOCK during this part. Yes, I'm not joking. Baby's attacks do not hit too hard, the only inconvenience they have is they can either knock or hold (in which cases it was just bad luck since it amounts to the same as if you had just blocked). And even if you die to the attack, if you helped bring down Mom's Regen shield, you did your job as a DPS.
- Learn the fight! Last night's succesful run happened because a healer was shouting the DPS when to DPS the shield, after which point we didn't miss a single DPS check. This is very impractical since the healer is targeting the Tanks, not the Dino, and since he could miss an important heal on a tank. The Heal happens when Mom has a red BOOM! AoE sign but no Yellow Bubble AoE, and she gains an Atomic symbol buff. IMPORTANT: Sometimes the Hold AoE is followed in rapid succesion by the Regen Buff, in which case she does not do the animation. JUST LOOK OUT FOR THE ATOMIC SYMBOL BUFF.
- Test in PH's dummies how much damage you can deal in 5 seconds, but don't get disheartened. Take into consideration that during the proper fight, other players will be applying debuffs to Teleiosaurus from which you can benefit from.
- Last but not least, join Cosmic HQ chat. Ask around for assistance in your build if you feel you are dieing a lot or not contributing to the DPS checks. There are a lot of people in that chat with a lot of experience and more than willing to help you out.
Now who is this Dipshit (Orange) I was talking about earlier?
If you pay attention to his Damage/Tanking/Healing columns, you will notice all of them are 0%, and average DPS does not go above 28. He was there almost the whole fight and died 5 times. He was using EB the whole fight. Don't be that guy. Specially since a lot of people in cosmics run parser and can report you, not to mention keep an eye out for you.
This is the data that we were able to compile from yesterday's run around 6 PM server time (all credit goes to @Behemothking).
The fight lasted 18 minutes and we were really close to completing it before healers died, tanks died and wipe. We were able to complete it later with a smaller group though, but no one was around to gather data at that time.
I obscured names so that this didn't turn into a callout thread.
Red is DPS
Blue is Healers
Yellow is Tanks.
Black is people who were in the fight for less than 9 minutes, though their presence did have an impact in the fight (Dino Regen Shield has more Hp the more players engaged to him) I didn't include them on calcs cause it would only disperse the results.
Orange is Dipshit and I seriously considered not obscuring his name, but more on that later.
So there are a few things this tells us already.
The fight was composed for most of it of 26 DPS, 4 tanks, 6 healers and Mr. Dipshit. So that makes 37 people.
Of the 26 DPS, 3 were above the 2k damage per second mark, another 7 above 1k mark, 4 were above the 500 mark, 1 tank was above the 500 mark, and the 12 remaining DPS were below the 500 mark.
Now let's take a look at the DPS during the 5 seconds since Healing buff and actual heal happening (AKA failed to meet DPS check):
(In order to measure this numbers, the 5 seconds prior to Teleiosaurus having a spike on healing were taken into consideration)
1- 227040
2- 200085
3- 137895
4- 303610
5- 266600
6- 279400
7- 152675
8- 243950
9- 279430
Now let's see succesful DPS checks. This are a little bit trickier to get, since no healing happens, the only indicator you can check for reference is Teleiosaurus not having any outgoing damage and a sudden increase in incoming DPS. Only 2 points were able to be determined with certainty:
These are not pretty number to work with (too few and too scattered) but it does tell us that, with 37 people around, the DPS check is somewhere around the 310k+ (since 300k failed previously).
1- 394080
2- 320920
If we didive these numbers over the 37 players present at the time over 5 seconds, we would get an average of 1734 - 2130 DPS per player required to break the heal.
However, of these 37 players, Tank and Healer contribution to DPS most often is minimal, not to mention we had Mr. Dipshit in this run. If we divide these numbers over the 26 active DPS players over 5 seconds we would get an average of 2468 - 3031 DPS per player required to break the heal. This is the adjusted DPS required to compensate for the number of Healer, Tanks and Dipshit in this run.
With this information, we can calculate that each DPS player required a 42% extra DPS than the minimum to compensate for the 11 players ( 6 Healers, 4 Tanks and Dipshit) that could not contribute to the DPS check on this run. Meaning that for every Healer/Tank/Dipshit present, roughly a 4% more DPS is required over the minimum.
The bare minimum required for a Teleiosaurus run is 2 Mom Tanks, 1 Baby Tank and 2 Healers. This gives us a minimum of 20% more DPS required per player to compensate, bringing us to the absolute minimum DPS per player required per run to somewhere between the 2081 - 2556 DPS mark, with an extra 4% required for every extra Healer, Tank, and Dipshit over that mark.
Now, you are probably thinking "Well, ****, that means I can't do Cosmics?". Well, yes and no. Remember, parser DPS charts are an average that take into consideration time in combat and do not discriminate downtimes like blocking or typing something in chat, and are also affected by how often you die.
What this information tell us however is that in order to properly be contributing to this fight, whenever Teleiosaurus gets her regen buff, you need to be able to deal something close to 10400 - 12780 damage over those 5 seconds, which is not something so unrealistic.
What can you do to improve?
- Block a lot during non healing parts. Yes the dino will go down slower, but it's much more better than her healing up all the progress
- Most often than not, Baby will AoE during Regen phase. DO NOT BLOCK during this part. Yes, I'm not joking. Baby's attacks do not hit too hard, the only inconvenience they have is they can either knock or hold (in which cases it was just bad luck since it amounts to the same as if you had just blocked). And even if you die to the attack, if you helped bring down Mom's Regen shield, you did your job as a DPS.
- Learn the fight! Last night's succesful run happened because a healer was shouting the DPS when to DPS the shield, after which point we didn't miss a single DPS check. This is very impractical since the healer is targeting the Tanks, not the Dino, and since he could miss an important heal on a tank. The Heal happens when Mom has a red BOOM! AoE sign but no Yellow Bubble AoE, and she gains an Atomic symbol buff. IMPORTANT: Sometimes the Hold AoE is followed in rapid succesion by the Regen Buff, in which case she does not do the animation. JUST LOOK OUT FOR THE ATOMIC SYMBOL BUFF.
- Test in PH's dummies how much damage you can deal in 5 seconds, but don't get disheartened. Take into consideration that during the proper fight, other players will be applying debuffs to Teleiosaurus from which you can benefit from.
- Last but not least, join Cosmic HQ chat. Ask around for assistance in your build if you feel you are dieing a lot or not contributing to the DPS checks. There are a lot of people in that chat with a lot of experience and more than willing to help you out.
Now who is this Dipshit (Orange) I was talking about earlier?
If you pay attention to his Damage/Tanking/Healing columns, you will notice all of them are 0%, and average DPS does not go above 28. He was there almost the whole fight and died 5 times. He was using EB the whole fight. Don't be that guy. Specially since a lot of people in cosmics run parser and can report you, not to mention keep an eye out for you.
Post edited by lezard21 on
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This is a big journey, so far if you're reading this, wish you a good day
on a Cosmic Fight
by only using his Energy Builder
also, people need to learn the animation for the Regeneration field
The only reason why he didn't get credit was because this run ended in a wipe, and Teleio went down at a later attempt in which he was not present.
Ah, this change the whole thing, Sorry
Actually, no im not, after learning who that Bastard was
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493-606 is the DPS needed to compensate for the amount of healers, tanks and leecher for this particular scenario.
Which means that having an average DPS of 400 still wouldn't cut it since there will always be the need to compensate for the DPS of tanks and healers.
I'll review this in the morning ^^
Edited the original post to calculate the absolute minimum DPS required per player to break the shield, and also calculated the % of extra damage each DPS has to do to compensate for Healers and Tanks.
The minimum DPS required for a run with 3 Tanks and 2 Healers should stand at 450 more or less, with any extra Healer, Tank or Leecher present requiring an extra 4% more damage.
This is still based a lot on speculation and the limited data pool I currently have. Both numbers for the DPS check are not accurate since we cannot tell how many players were actually engaged in combat at the time the shield went up.
If anyone else running parsers on this fight has the time, I will appreciate it if they PM me with more data.
Both this set of numbers mean the average total DPS of the 37 players available at the time over the period of 5 seconds. This number STILL needs to be multiplied by 5 seconds to get a rough estimate on how much damage Teleio's shield took before either failing or breaking through so: With this new numbers....things don't look as promising as before. For the 37 people in battle at the time the damage per second they should do to succesfully bring the shield down is somewhere between 1734 - 2130 DPS.
Adjusted for healers/tank/leecher, that would be 2468 - 3031, which still means DPS had to be adjusted by 42% for the non DPS players, or 4% for each.
Finally, this would mean that for a bare minimum run (2 mom tanks, 1 Baby tank, 2 Healers), the minimum required DPS stands at 2081 - 2556 damage per second with 4% increase for each additional Tank/Healer/Leecher.
Now, you are probably thinking "Well, ****, that means I can't do Cosmics?". Well, yes and no. Remember, parser DPS charts are an average that take into consideration time in combat and do not discriminate downtimes like blocking or typing something in chat, and are also affected by how often you die.
What this information tell us however is that in order to properly be contributing to this fight, whenever Teleiosaurus gets her regen buff, you need to be able to deal something close to 10400 - 12780 damage over those 5 seconds, which is not something so unrealistic.
Editing OP with this new information.
( @kamokami added new information so you can update the Cosmic Tips guide)
I actually think that hitting 10k damage during a specific set of 5 seconds is much much easier than hitting at 2k+ sustained DPS threshold. So it's great that you did the multiplying.
Because with 10k dmg / 5 secs a lot of other burst damage options become available to prevent healing....beyond the Active Offenses etc. Unleashed Rage, Strafing Run, Rimefire, Rupturing bleeds, etc....can all be timed to hit when the Dino's activating the heal.
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What is the difference between "DPS" and "EncDPS"? What does the "Enc" stand for?
Thanks.
EncDPS is the average of damage dealt by that person for the WHOLE fight (in this case 18 min). This value is affected by death and joining the battle in progress.
Can your savage AT crit over 2k massacres? Especially if given ample warning?
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Spectre beats Eido in an SG run: VIDEO HERE
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So I spend a lot of time blocking and trying to attack between boom attacks.
a list of what all the green and yellow bubbles are would be useful. Also a list of the crouching and body movements that go before so people can learn , rather than having to guess in fights.
I only get to try these on weekends, so you can guess how much practice I've had.
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There are 2 yellow spheres, the one where the dinos crouch down on their belly is a knockback. To block the knock you need to block sooner than for blocking the damage.
The other yellow sphere is where the dinos first lift 1 foot and then the other, that is the stun. You need to block soon to block the stun completely, and keep blocking for about 0.5 seconds after you see the stun debuff icon on you. If you do not block the stun soon enough, it will just do it's full duration. You can block through it, but the moment you stop blocking and the stun is still active, it will still apply the stun. If you are in doubt if you blocked fast enough you can look at the timer on the stun debuff icon, if it started with about 3 seconds you blocked fast enough, if it started with >20 seconds you did not block fast enough.
Why is the Regen indicator a "Boom"? Doesn't Boom me AOE damage?
Also, most of the time, when on the side of that f-ing cliff, I can barely see the baby, so I have no idea what stupid foot shuffle step it is doing.
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Here's a quick guide:
Block all yellow bubbles, they're either a knockback or a stun and you don't want to be hit by either.
Block green bubbles, since they apply a poison dot. If your toon is kind of tough, then you don't have to block the one that's further away - that's the baby one, and it does significantly less damage.
If you see a big red circle tell and no bubbles coming form the mom, start dpsing cause that's the dps check.
That's all you need right there.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
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I thought of trying this with my Unleashed, since I know she can spam full charge dragons wrath. STill need more hps.
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Red "BOOM" sign with no yellow/green bubble aura means she is going to heal.
Here, @qawsada made a video http://imgur.com/qMVqcJT
I can imagine everyone letting off their biggest spikes at the same time just as the Dino roars. Like everyone else roaring too with Unleashed Rages going off, full charge attacks, Rimefires, a bunch of Shoulder Launchers connecting, etc...all happening at once. It's pretty awesome to think about.
It's worth repeating that for the Dino, what's needed is not DPS. What's needed is correctly timed spike damage.....unless someone is doing either that or is healing or is tanking then they are dead weight in the fight.
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Also, someone counted (can't remember who) and it seems the DPS checks come every 45 seconds.
It was suggested that perhaps killing the baby over and over would be a usable new tactic. Was not tried while I was there. Also mezz was discussed but everyone agreed that Baby could not even be a little mezzed, unlike the Kiga dogs.
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There is also the possibility of too many tanks and healers showing up, as happened on an extended run yesterday. We had three tanks, I think, but 7 or 8 healers. There was no way the remaining DPS could make up for that.
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Knowing this tells me what kind of recharges I need in planning my DPS spike sequence.
Thanks for the maths. I suspect that the best solution is to get a dozen pro dps'ers built to spike 25K+ damage in 5 seconds consistantly to cover for other more casual players.
Any thoughts on how to maximize a DPS spike are welcome. (Or which ultimates and AOs and buffs are best).
It was unusual, to be sure, but it actually can be an issue. I was using a Life Drain healer, so doing some DPS and lots of healing simultaneously.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
- Unleashed Rage
- Haymaker
- Massacre
- Dragon's Claws
- Rimefire
- Strafing Run
- Force Cascade
- Shoulder Launcher
- Chest Beam
- Tiger's Bite
- Annihilate
- Particle Smash
- TK Lance
- Defile
- Icicle Spear
- Ebon Ruin
- Ricochet Throw
- Fireball
- Skewer
- Reaper's Embrace
- Ego Blade Annihilation
- Ego Blade Breach
- Typhoon
and I'm probably still missing some. You can literally just block during the entire fight and fully charge one of these once or twice at the right times and contribute more to the fight than the petmaster that shows up to pew pew everything the whole time.
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What matters is your spike damage during a specific time.
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Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
I'm guessing that having ego surge with nimble mind is going to be a big help for those few moments. So, save that AO for the crucial moment.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Fully charge an attack or two or use one the aforementioned clickies like Unleashed Rage and you're set. Yup saving your Active Offense up for this time is great. Especially to counter any potential holds that the mom or baby might try right before the DPS check comes up.
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Now, to clarify on the timer, @qawsada and I both counted multiple times and both came out that it happens every 40-45 seconds (this varies because sometimes Dino mom is stuck in an animation).
This countdown starts once the DPS check ends (wether success or fail) as long as Dino mom is close to or below 2/3rd health. Above 2/3rd mom will stop using regen.
This has proven to be very important because one of the checks that is most often failed is the fakeout (Mom uses stun Roar and immediately uses regen without repeating the animation). If you keep track of how much time till next regen phase, you can tell if it's a normal roar or a fakeout and be ready to go full out DPS.
Another issue that was discussed a lot last night, is wether blocking or not baby's AoEs. My personal opinion is the following:
- Mom starts regen animation (or if you are keeping track of time, is close to) and baby uses an AoE: Block (unless you are sturdy enough in which case you don't need to block Green Spike AoE).
- Mom is already on Regen phase and baby uses an AoE: DON'T BLOCK AND KEEP DPSING. If the AoE happened to be hold or you happen to be knocked or you are not sturdy enough and die to Green Spike, well that was bad luck, but at least you contributed even for a few seconds to bring regen down, whereas if you turtle block you didn't contribute at all.
Finally an important note. I have been bugging people about this for a couple of nights already, and few have listened.
While tanks are securing aggro at the start of battle, GO DOWN AND PRACTICE BLOCKING. The way the game runs the hold/knock/DoT checks, you don't have to block the entire animation for it to count.
For example, I found out that by blocking 1-2 seconds as soon as Mom starts her Roar animation, I can drop the block and start DPSing much sooner without getting hold.
For Green Spike, if you were blocking between 60%-80% of the charge bar filling up, and start DPSing, you will get the full Spike damage, but no DoT, which is something sturdy DPS can abuse to keep the DPS up.
For Knock, if you were blocking around 50% of the charge bar, you can start DPSing, take full jump damage but not get knocked.
Of course, timed blocks is risky and not advised if you are experiencing lag, but if you have a good conection this can help you improve your overall DPS by reducing the amount of time you spend behind a Block.
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ok I don't print much.
i should try this on my unleashed I know she can get 8-12k crits on dragons wrath and can spam full charges. I'll have to check If I can swap a rec mod for a con mod to get better hps.
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In terms of getting the timing right, I try to finish or be halfway through my full charge attack by the time:
- Boom tell goes away
- She puts down her second foot
- the green Atom icon appears under her hp bar
- green goo shows up under her
That's when the DPS check starts. Watch this vid to see them happen: http://imgur.com/qMVqcJT
You'll notice that all 4 of these things happen at the same time so you can look for whatever effect is easier for you to spot.
I'll activate my Active Offenses and start my full charge attack as soon as I see the "Boom" so that by the time it goes away the charge connects. Then I frantically tap spam until we pass the check.
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1. Does the green goo ever appear independent of a dps check?
2. Below 33% health, does Mom ever do two consecutive DPS checks with no 40-45 second interval?
I look for the green goo effect, not just look for it, but anticipate it. I just want to make sure that I can only focus on that one indicator.
On another note, the new placement, further toward the beach on the more flat area, is much much better. I had mentioned many times that the angle of the dangle off that cliff, with 30+ glowing zergers next to you, made it difficult to see all the vagaries of the various nearly-identical tells.
Also, and this is my only real complaint to the developers, it was VERY uncool to use the Boom indicator for a heal. For all of the rest of the game, in all the tips and other instructions, Boom means AOE damage. That is how YOU made it, that is what YOU told us. So, now, without any warning you change it. Why do so many new Cosmic hunters have trouble detecting that tell? Because you lied to us. Why did you not give it a new tell?
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The issue is that by the time it shows up you usually want to have started charging an attack. I suppose charging up an attack during the wrong time is not so bad. But for any clickie damage powers like Rimefire and Unleashed Rage, maybe wait to see the green icon before activating them.
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I think you misinterpretated my message.
What I meant is "Practice blocking during this non-essential parts so that you may use them during essential parts"
For example, practice time blocking the Roar AoE, because most often than not, when Mom is about to go Regen Phase, Baby will use Roar. If you learn to time the block for the 1-2 essential seconds part you can jump into contributing to the check immediately, whereas if you turtle block the whole duration of the Roar animation like I've seen a lot of people do, the Regen Phase would go on and off and failed.
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