All right, we're looking at two distinct camps of players responding to the changes.
Camp One, which kallethen appears to be part of, believes these powers were overperforming, and the rest are working as intended.
Camp Two, which appears to be a slightly larger population of the forum, believes these powers are performing adequately, and too many of the rest are underperforming.
Unfortunately, it does not seem these two groups are likely to see eye to eye at any point in the foreseeable future.
Sign me up for Camp One.
"There is only one way to support a PFF tank: Send Cyrone lots of money weekly... because he's the only one to successfully be a true PFF Tank." - chuckwolf
All right, we're looking at two distinct camps of players responding to the changes.
Camp One, which kallethen appears to be part of, believes these powers were overperforming, and the rest are working as intended.
Camp Two, which appears to be a slightly larger population of the forum, believes these powers are performing adequately, and too many of the rest are underperforming.
Unfortunately, it does not seem these two groups are likely to see eye to eye at any point in the foreseeable future.
Sign me up for Camp One.
I'll go Camp 2. Some literally do not see telepathy/gadgeteering or force. Like, how?.
Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.
POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergiesPlaying since 1 February 2011 98+ Characters (7 ATs, 91 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
I'll go Camp 2. Some literally do not see telepathy/gadgeteering or force. Like, how?.
You make a fair point. I propose a Camp Three. Those who see these powers as overperforming, as well as a vast majority that are still underperforming.
I'll move to Camp Three.
"There is only one way to support a PFF tank: Send Cyrone lots of money weekly... because he's the only one to successfully be a true PFF Tank." - chuckwolf
All right, we're looking at two distinct camps of players responding to the changes.
Camp One, which kallethen appears to be part of, believes these powers were overperforming, and the rest are working as intended.
Camp Two, which appears to be a slightly larger population of the forum, believes these powers are performing adequately, and too many of the rest are underperforming.
There is always the possibility of "these powers are overperforming, and there are also powers that are underperforming". Most of the underperforming powers don't have a lot of defenders because no-one particularly cares about them, but there's certainly a large number of marginal to useless powers.
All right, we're looking at two distinct camps of players responding to the changes.
Camp One, which kallethen appears to be part of, believes these powers were overperforming, and the rest are working as intended.
Camp Two, which appears to be a slightly larger population of the forum, believes these powers are performing adequately, and too many of the rest are underperforming.
There is always the possibility of "these powers are overperforming, and there are also powers that are underperforming". Most of the underperforming powers don't have a lot of defenders because no-one particularly cares about them, but there's certainly a large number of marginal to useless powers.
A gigantic margain. Pretty much what I've said since my first FF waaay back in '12.
Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.
Thanks for clearing up the decision making process behind power changes!
The blog mentioned the most used powers, but have you taken a look at the least used powers as well? The impression I get is that the most popular sets have been getting the most balance attention, but the underperformers like Personal Force Field and Archery DPS have been untouched. Will they be getting looked at in the near future?
Thanks for clearing up the decision making process behind power changes!
The blog mentioned the most used powers, but have you taken a look at the least used powers as well? The impression I get is that the most popular sets have been getting the most balance attention, but the underperformers like Personal Force Field and Archery DPS have been untouched. Will they be getting looked at in the near future?
An archery DPS increase would be kinda cool and PFF? Absolutely for the love of all that is holy please let me be able to use this passive without regretting it the second it gets downed by...anything . It's really cool to have a extra HP bar but seems it's not worth it atm.
Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.
*Ahem* *Says to the forums* Buff? *Loudest nerfherders* Hsss!!! Uhhhh...oookay, um, nevermind
In the interest of accuracy, please start calling us "Balanceherders", because that's what we really want. It's never too late to take down the strawman.
It's not a competitive player vs player game, so what's "balance" got to do with it? Some power sets make the game easier than others... that's OK. If the game difficulty slider worked properly, would I feel bad If saw someone with the same goodies obtained through "Normal" as I'd got via "Elite"? Can't say I would. Play the game how you want with what you want.
"It's not a competitive player vs player game, so what's "balance" got to do with it?"
People like challenge. You can't have challenge if there is no balance. Even people playing social casual games like to be competitive in some form. Social media integration is a great way for people to tweet their high scores to friends and to have them try to one up each other.
Why do you think games like Dark Souls and all of the new, old school style CRPGs have exploded in popularity? Because people want a fair challenge.
Thanks for clearing up the decision making process behind power changes!
The blog mentioned the most used powers, but have you taken a look at the least used powers as well? The impression I get is that the most popular sets have been getting the most balance attention, but the underperformers like Personal Force Field and Archery DPS have been untouched. Will they be getting looked at in the near future?
An archery DPS increase would be kinda cool and PFF? Absolutely for the love of all that is holy please let me be able to use this passive without regretting it the second it gets downed by...anything :/. It's really cool to have a extra HP bar but seems it's not worth it atm.
only if they do something about the part of the archery passive, which makes it better to stack INT than your primary SS.
It's not a competitive player vs player game, so what's "balance" got to do with it?
If content says that it's appropriate for a team of 5 players, it should provide a moderate challenge to a team of 5 players.
for example;
Headhunter: L22, suggested team 2: run by solo AT's, in level 19-21.
You got to understand, these "balanceherders" are the people pushing to make the game more PvP centered. Thats all they do all day long, stand around in Ren Center and fight each other with the same 4 or 5 cookie cutter PvP builds, running content for dailies only. They do not want "Balance", the want the game tailored for them and their preferred playstyle. They love PvP so want everyone else to too.
~I'm a figment of your imagination, a mass hallucination, only real because you feel I am~
really, I don't do pvp and I want more changes to powers.
nor am I a min maxer.
also I notice the people complaining are mostly people with optimized builds, people with less optimized builds, don't seem to have as many problems with the changes.
me liking pvp will only happen, if ;
1. I never have to take part in it
2. all the wankers who give it a bad name, go away or at least shut up in zone
really, I don't do pvp and I want more changes to powers.
nor am I a min maxer.
also I notice the people complaining are mostly people with optimized builds, people with less optimized builds, don't seem to have as many problems with the changes.
This is roughly my point of view, too. I want underperforming powers brought up, and overperforming ones brought down.
I enjoy seeing more build and power diversity when I play in teams, actually. Part of my fun is the delight and surprise in seeing unusual and new character types in action.
Moreover, bringing down the power level of "must have" powers is needed for the devs to build things like TA.
Nice to see the game is still going strong! I am a lifetime sub and I just came back after being gone for about a year. I need to do some catch up on changes.
Nice to see the game is still going strong! I am a lifetime sub and I just came back after being gone for about a year. I need to do some catch up on changes.
Going yes, but going strong is debatable. Though the game is finally getting some much needed attention, if that attention is in the right place or not is subjective.
when the hell is the scaling on overdrive going to be fixed?
[atm it scales better off of recovery than endurance or intelligence, despite the tool tip saying it should be the other way around]
I wonder this myself, Overdrive is one of my favorite Energy Unlocks, but the Endurance Scaling is a big fat lie
POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergiesPlaying since 1 February 2011 98+ Characters (7 ATs, 91 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
I wonder this myself, Overdrive is one of my favorite Energy Unlocks, but the Endurance Scaling is a big fat lie
Said it before: Just fix the description, leave the power as is otherwise.
What I was thinking, it's like with Gears of War 3 and the Sawed of Shotgun, for some reason the description was changed cause people raged about it in the literal sense what it was, I was like *Face palm* Really?
I take this quote from a review that I agree with.
"customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
Personally I think all powers should scale off of all 3 Superstats no matter what those superstats are.
That would be an unnecessary amount of work to carry out. Also you would have to likely adjust innate bonuses and effects that super stats grant, not to mention all the specializations etc.
I do agree that SOME powers could move away from certain stat scaling but definitely not all.
Having to use a specific stat to achieve X is good, since it means that not everyone is running around doing the same thing "cause it works". Having stats linked to certain abilities such as Energy Unlocks is a form of reward for investing in it.
Technically you can still use all the powers in CO with whatever stats you like, its just that the results will be p*ss poor in comparison to someone who utilized specific stats to achieve their intended build. There's nothing wrong with having to sacrifice a little for something.
For me, the thing that annoys me is when I invest in something and my investment is not rewarded but that's for another discussion.
My first thought is that you'd probably enmd up with nearly all builds having Con/str/dex or something as super stats.
Pretty much. What would be most likely in fact is that everyone would just go back to exclusively stacking Con - in other words, it would cause everyone to go back to the meta that we're currently trying to move away from, and would be a huge step backwards.
Well, it means people would stack whatever stat gave them the best bonuses that were inherent to the stat. As most inherent stat bonuses are somewhat meh in the current state of gear (used to be dex was the only source of crit and int the only source of cost/cooldown reduction), that pushes towards Con.
I wonder this myself, Overdrive is one of my favorite Energy Unlocks, but the Endurance Scaling is a big fat lie
Said it before: Just fix the description, leave the power as is otherwise.
You ever play the Invincible? If so, you might not be saying that. The thing flat out sucks on energy because of how overdrive scales with it's primary super stat. Plus, reliance on rec? For something that eats a ton of energy? Do you want to constantly interrupt your toggles? Because that's how you constantly interrupt your toggles.
It's pretty terrible when an energy unlock works better for literally everything else, except the framework it comes in. I kinda feel like "scales better off of X superstat" is pretty naff when we're dealing with energy unlocks. Game lacks variety for em as is, imo. Being pigeon holed even further by SS choice is counterproductive.
Kinda hoping I got/get retcons for all of this. I only had one viable character (And even then, she was a bit under-optimized because of other nerfs) BEFORE powers started being fiddled with. I've not been in game specifically because I have no toons anymore, it's kinda bulls**t. I flat out refuse to farm so I can correct power changes the devs forced on us, I already have 20+ characters to re-gear.
In game, I am @EvilTaco. Happily killing purple gang members since May 2008. RIP Caine
>Would be great if it scaled well off INT/END and REC
Yeah, I kinda feel like it'd make more sense for all of the energy unlocks to treat the associated superstats equally. You stack a bunch of rec? You should be getting huge energy returns, that's why you stack rec. But if it says it works off of int, int should do what rec would. It ain't like a bunch of us are SSing Int/Rec as is.
In game, I am @EvilTaco. Happily killing purple gang members since May 2008. RIP Caine
Comments
Formerly @Seschat pre PWEmerger. @Seschat on the Titan boards.
Supporter of the Titan Project.
Formerly @Seschat pre PWEmerger. @Seschat on the Titan boards.
Supporter of the Titan Project.
Formerly @Seschat pre PWEmerger. @Seschat on the Titan boards.
Supporter of the Titan Project.
"There is only one way to support a PFF tank: Send Cyrone lots of money weekly... because he's the only one to successfully be a true PFF Tank." - chuckwolf
42 40s, LTSer.
Pizza is good, you should love Pizza
I'll move to Camp Three.
"There is only one way to support a PFF tank: Send Cyrone lots of money weekly... because he's the only one to successfully be a true PFF Tank." - chuckwolf
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Block timing explained
42 40s, LTSer.
The blog mentioned the most used powers, but have you taken a look at the least used powers as well? The impression I get is that the most popular sets have been getting the most balance attention, but the underperformers like Personal Force Field and Archery DPS have been untouched. Will they be getting looked at in the near future?
42 40s, LTSer.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
People like challenge. You can't have challenge if there is no balance. Even people playing social casual games like to be competitive in some form. Social media integration is a great way for people to tweet their high scores to friends and to have them try to one up each other.
Why do you think games like Dark Souls and all of the new, old school style CRPGs have exploded in popularity? Because people want a fair challenge.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
my favourite is ham, pineapple and prawns. NO, I'm not in Hawaii.
Ham and pineapple is a common pizza here
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only if they do something about the part of the archery passive, which makes it better to stack INT than your primary SS.
yes, please do something about the PFF passive.
for example;
Headhunter: L22, suggested team 2: run by solo AT's, in level 19-21.
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nor am I a min maxer.
also I notice the people complaining are mostly people with optimized builds, people with less optimized builds, don't seem to have as many problems with the changes.
me liking pvp will only happen, if ;
1. I never have to take part in it
2. all the wankers who give it a bad name, go away or at least shut up in zone
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
I enjoy seeing more build and power diversity when I play in teams, actually. Part of my fun is the delight and surprise in seeing unusual and new character types in action.
Moreover, bringing down the power level of "must have" powers is needed for the devs to build things like TA.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
my favourite is ham, pineapple and prawns. NO, I'm not in Hawaii.
Ham and pineapple is a common pizza here
My favorite is Pineapple, pepperoni, and jalepeno.
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now that, sounds like a good one to try.. after loading up on anti histamines, still burns but less aftereffects.
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when the hell is the scaling on overdrive going to be fixed?
[atm it scales better off of recovery than endurance or intelligence, despite the tool tip saying it should be the other way around]
Member of Paragon Dawn: Because some people like friendly helpful communities.
Yeah some things are broken... no I don't use/abuse them.. where would be the fun in that?
I wonder this myself, Overdrive is one of my favorite Energy Unlocks, but the Endurance Scaling is a big fat lie
Overdrive grants +0.0088 Energy every 3 seconds for 15 seconds per stack per point of intelligence or endurance, scaling with the higher attribute.
BUT
Overdrive grants +0.041 Energy every 3 seconds for 15 seconds per stack per point of recovery.
So yeah ._.
No idea why, or if it's just a
(Above information taken from >>HERE<< as Overdrive hasn't been mechanically adjusted since it was put on LIVE.)
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I am @RavenForce in game
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My super cool CC build and how to use it.
I take this quote from a review that I agree with.
"customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
My Characters on PRIMUS
[#]WeNeedHeroicFashion - <Aura Suggestions> - <CO Wiki (WIP)> - <Crowd Control Discussion> - <Telepathy in Champions Online> - How to review The Force Power Set - Join the Champions Online: On Alert Discord!
I am @RavenForce in game
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i'd prefer that too; then you don't have to be pigeonholed into taking specific superstats for a specific energy unlock
I do agree that SOME powers could move away from certain stat scaling but definitely not all.
Having to use a specific stat to achieve X is good, since it means that not everyone is running around doing the same thing "cause it works". Having stats linked to certain abilities such as Energy Unlocks is a form of reward for investing in it.
Technically you can still use all the powers in CO with whatever stats you like, its just that the results will be p*ss poor in comparison to someone who utilized specific stats to achieve their intended build. There's nothing wrong with having to sacrifice a little for something.
For me, the thing that annoys me is when I invest in something and my investment is not rewarded but that's for another discussion.
My Characters on PRIMUS
[#]WeNeedHeroicFashion - <Aura Suggestions> - <CO Wiki (WIP)> - <Crowd Control Discussion> - <Telepathy in Champions Online> - How to review The Force Power Set - Join the Champions Online: On Alert Discord!
I am @RavenForce in game
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My super cool CC build and how to use it.
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My super cool CC build and how to use it.
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Block timing explained
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The Impulse's stats are primary end with secondary ego and int.
That Dork In The Suspenders, signing out.
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It's pretty terrible when an energy unlock works better for literally everything else, except the framework it comes in. I kinda feel like "scales better off of X superstat" is pretty naff when we're dealing with energy unlocks. Game lacks variety for em as is, imo. Being pigeon holed even further by SS choice is counterproductive.
Kinda hoping I got/get retcons for all of this. I only had one viable character (And even then, she was a bit under-optimized because of other nerfs) BEFORE powers started being fiddled with. I've not been in game specifically because I have no toons anymore, it's kinda bulls**t. I flat out refuse to farm so I can correct power changes the devs forced on us, I already have 20+ characters to re-gear.
RIP Caine
Yeah, I kinda feel like it'd make more sense for all of the energy unlocks to treat the associated superstats equally. You stack a bunch of rec? You should be getting huge energy returns, that's why you stack rec. But if it says it works off of int, int should do what rec would. It ain't like a bunch of us are SSing Int/Rec as is.
RIP Caine