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Questions on building

soupologysoupology Posts: 10 Arc User
I just came back and hopefully you guys could catch me up on the changes that has happened.

I'm an altoholic who wants to do the current 40 content as DPS.

1) For AoEs, what are (in theme) powers i should get. (For example, Conflag for Fire and Thunder/Lightning Storm for electricty)

2) How has the recent nerfs affected building characters? (Dodge/INT)

3) For more energy hungry powers, what SS would you take to manage them? (Cascade/Typhoon/ERuin?/2GM)

4) Is Evasive Maneuvers(sp) worth getting as a threat wipe? If not, what's currently the best/viable wipes?

5) Are there any notable powers I should get that have to be unlocked? (The TK Lance Aoe for example, is it worth getting?)

6) How many AOs or ADs should I get? Any recommendations?

7) If someone could post a basic skeleton for each themed powerset, pref ranged, that would be appreciated.

Thanks in advanced for replying, I'm asking because most of the info I've found tends to be outdated/i'm unsure if it's still viable.

Comments

  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,852 Arc User
    edited June 2016
    1) That's kinda vague. What theme (or themes) are you looking for?

    2) Again, a bit too vague here. The dodge nerf wasn't recent, so unless you've been away for a long time then you should have already been accommodating for that change (it basically means that you can't just gear for good dodge, and high dodge-builds now center around taking specific powers- moreso than before).

    By 'Int' I assume ya mean the CDR nerf? The meat of it is that ur not gonna be able to get much higher than 30-35% total CDR by lvl 40, instead of the 60%+ ya could get before. The implication is obvious (cd abilities are weaker since they take longer to come back up), but cds on the whole are still viable to build around. Since cd powers vary widely, though, it'll just depend on what powers ya had in mind.

    3) For ranged powers using a ranged dps toggle (Conc, AotI, or Chilled Form), it'll depend on what ur priorities are, the attack(s) in question, the energy unlock ya take (usually), and (especially for energy-hog powers) also on ur level of gear/stats. I generally still try to keep Ego or Int PSS'd in this case, though its still prob feasible to afford energy-heavy stuff and still use Dex PSS + Con SS.
    AoPM Hybrid builds can also be good for dps builds using energy-heavy attacks. Ya won't get all the dmg boosts as pure offense role build would get, but AoPM's stat boosts can help greatly to afford things, while still boosting ur performance in general. I'd recommend AoPM for a dps-oriented build looking to use, Force Cascade (for ex.) over a standard offensive role build - not that the latter is unfeasible, but an AoPM build makes it easier.

    4) Its good. Much shorter cd than Palliate's Absolve, but EM/SoM is a 50% chance so its still a gamble. Either are good as threat wipes, but just have diff pros and cons.

    5) Not really. Some of the newer unlocks like Holy Water or Power Chord have some potential, but none of them are really amazing either. Many of them can be brought on the AH for not too many resources- I'd prob just look up those first if ur interested. Many of the other unlocks seem to have long grinds attached to them.

    6) I'd generally get one of each for a dps. Having two ADs can be fine too- if I'm doing that then usually I pair Resurgence w/ R1 MD or Unbreakable for a dps toon, but many of my own non-tank builds do fine w/ one short-cd heal, one of either Resurgence_MD, and a threat wipe. The latest content also seems to be putting a bit more emphasis on blocking at good times, so a block enhancer isn't necc a bad investment either. 2 AOs can work too, but I usually don't have the room to spare for that on my dps builds (also depends on the AOs, since ES/NM + Con SS is the clear leader of them, and only a few other AOs are decent or even worthwhile). The only other time I'd consider getting >1 AO is if ur also pvping and find that you could use more hold-breaks.

    7) erm.. that's a pretty huge task, considering potential themes ya can take in this game are practically endless. Like inquiry 1): it helps to narrow it down a bit. If ya really want more sources, then my Themed Tanks guide (see sig) steps through all the powersets; its from a tank-building perspective (so ya dun want to follow all advice as a dps, obv), and I still need to revise it w/ the recent power changes, but it can still offer some insight on powerset-themed builds and their basics.
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • raighnraighn Posts: 2,339 Arc User
    Perhaps this can help for your basic build skeleton request... its a general outline that I try to follow with my builds..

    Energy Builder
    Passive
    Form
    Energy Unlock
    Block Enhancer
    1-2 Single Target Attack
    1-2 AoE Attack
    1 Heal
    1+ Utility (Hold, Shield, Debuff, Knock)
    AO/AD (personally I only take one Active per build usually either an AO or an AD, but Im wierd and stubbon)
    Fill out any empty spaces with more Utilities

    Build Tips:
    - Try to avoid having more than 4 attacks (not counting your Energy Builder)
    - You really do not need mor than 1 self heal
    - Threatwipes are good, but if you stay on top of things with blocking and your self heal you shouldnt need one.
    - ADs, like Threatwipes are not a requirement for a good build, if you keep ontop of things with blocks and self heals you wont need one. Trust me, I speak from experiance on this... Unless you plan to PvP you will never "NEED" and AD if you know how to block effectively. ADs are more benefitial to Tanks, Healers, and PvPers than DPS in the long run.
    - If your Energy Unlock or Form requires specific debuff to proc them then make sure one of your Utilities applies this debuff if its not applied by on of your primary attacks.
    ^-^ cute, cuddly, @Pandabutt ^-^
    jniKqKJ.png
  • soupologysoupology Posts: 10 Arc User
    flowcyto wrote: »
    1) That's kinda vague. What theme (or themes) are you looking for?
    Sorry about that. I meant to refer to Power-sets. This is because not all the builds I saw in your other post about DPS covered AoEs. I'm referring to your post here.

    2) Again, a bit too vague here. The dodge nerf wasn't recent, so unless you've been away for a long time then you should have already been accommodating for that change (it basically means that you can't just gear for good dodge, and high dodge-builds now center around taking specific powers- moreso than before).

    By 'Int' I assume ya mean the CDR nerf? The meat of it is that ur not gonna be able to get much higher than 30-35% total CDR by lvl 40, instead of the 60%+ ya could get before. The implication is obvious (cd abilities are weaker since they take longer to come back up), but cds on the whole are still viable to build around. Since cd powers vary widely, though, it'll just depend on what powers ya had in mind.
    I'll be more specific. I've been gone for a REALLY long time. Back then we typically did Dodge Defensive Gear and CDR Utilities. The question was more about gearing. Sorry if I wasn't clear. Would it be more appropriate to do HP Defense Gear and still use the CDR Utilities? To be more specific about the second part (referring to INT), is taking INT as a PSS worth it these days? I've seen your build dump, I'm not sure how updated you keep it (since they are just compilations) use a lot of INT PSS. Would you still recommend me to do the same?

    3) For ranged powers using a ranged dps toggle (Conc, AotI, or Chilled Form), it'll depend on what ur priorities are, the attack(s) in question, the energy unlock ya take (usually), and (especially for energy-hog powers) also on ur level of gear/stats. I generally still try to keep Ego or Int PSS'd in this case, though its still prob feasible to afford energy-heavy stuff and still use Dex PSS + Con SS.
    AoPM Hybrid builds can also be good for dps builds using energy-heavy attacks. Ya won't get all the dmg boosts as pure offense role build would get, but AoPM's stat boosts can help greatly to afford things, while still boosting ur performance in general. I'd recommend AoPM for a dps-oriented build looking to use, Force Cascade (for ex.) over a standard offensive role build - not that the latter is unfeasible, but an AoPM build makes it easier.
    Which set would lead to more overall DPS. Since I wouldn't want a lot of downtime because of me having to use Energy Builders because my Energy Unlock isn't enough to keep my main powers up. Again, this is primarily for the ones I've mentioned in the question.

    4) Its good. Much shorter cd than Palliate's Absolve, but EM/SoM is a 50% chance so its still a gamble. Either are good as threat wipes, but just have diff pros and cons.
    I've seen in a lot of the builds you've suggested you have a preference to Palliate's Absolve. Is there any fight where you'd constantly need to wipe threat?

    5) Not really. Some of the newer unlocks like Holy Water or Power Chord have some potential, but none of them are really amazing either. Many of them can be brought on the AH for not too many resources- I'd prob just look up those first if ur interested. Many of the other unlocks seem to have long grinds attached to them.
    That's nice to hear, I hope I wouldn't miss any good powers because I was away.

    6) I'd generally get one of each for a dps. Having two ADs can be fine too- if I'm doing that then usually I pair Resurgence w/ R1 MD or Unbreakable for a dps toon, but many of my own non-tank builds do fine w/ one short-cd heal, one of either Resurgence_MD, and a threat wipe. The latest content also seems to be putting a bit more emphasis on blocking at good times, so a block enhancer isn't necc a bad investment either. 2 AOs can work too, but I usually don't have the room to spare for that on my dps builds (also depends on the AOs, since ES/NM + Con SS is the clear leader of them, and only a few other AOs are decent or even worthwhile). The only other time I'd consider getting >1 AO is if ur also pvping and find that you could use more hold-breaks.
    From what I understand, it's good to have 1 AD/AO/Heal(Probably Conviction for me)/Threat Wipe(Leaning to Palliate's Absolve). Especially since I won't be PvPing. Would you have a recommendation on good block powers? I'm leaning towards getting the Darkness Block (I forgot the name) Because of the Voracious Darkness? Advantage.

    7) erm.. that's a pretty huge task, considering potential themes ya can take in this game are practically endless. Like inquiry 1): it helps to narrow it down a bit. If ya really want more sources, then my Themed Tanks guide (see sig) steps through all the powersets; its from a tank-building perspective (so ya dun want to follow all advice as a dps, obv), and I still need to revise it w/ the recent power changes, but it can still offer some insight on powerset-themed builds and their basics.
    I meant to refer to powersets. Sorry if I was vague about this. I'll make sure to look at the tank templates to get a better idea about it.

    Thank you very much for the help! Sorry if some of the questions were vague.

    raighn wrote: »
    Perhaps this can help for your basic build skeleton request... its a general outline that I try to follow with my builds..

    Energy Builder
    Passive
    Form
    Energy Unlock
    Block Enhancer
    1-2 Single Target Attack
    1-2 AoE Attack
    1 Heal
    1+ Utility (Hold, Shield, Debuff, Knock)
    AO/AD (personally I only take one Active per build usually either an AO or an AD, but Im wierd and stubbon)
    Fill out any empty spaces with more Utilities

    Build Tips:
    - Try to avoid having more than 4 attacks (not counting your Energy Builder)
    - You really do not need mor than 1 self heal
    - Threatwipes are good, but if you stay on top of things with blocking and your self heal you shouldnt need one.
    - ADs, like Threatwipes are not a requirement for a good build, if you keep ontop of things with blocks and self heals you wont need one. Trust me, I speak from experiance on this... Unless you plan to PvP you will never "NEED" and AD if you know how to block effectively. ADs are more benefitial to Tanks, Healers, and PvPers than DPS in the long run.
    - If your Energy Unlock or Form requires specific debuff to proc them then make sure one of your Utilities applies this debuff if its not applied by on of your primary attacks.
    Thanks for Replying! I'll probably pattern my builds after this, though I'm still on the fence about not having an AD and I'm not too kind on psuedo tanking on a DPS because my threat is out of control. Could you tell me more about your experiences in 40 content as a DPS and why you don't feel you need those 2?
    ​​
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,852 Arc User
    edited June 2016
    Sorry about that. I meant to refer to Power-sets. This is because not all the builds I saw in your other post about DPS covered AoEs. I'm referring to your post here.
    Oh, yea that short list was generally meant for single targets- its just that some powersets have AoE options that are the best for ST dps as well (or competitive w/ single-target only options) and that's why they were listed there.

    AoE is a bit trickier to cover since ya also have to contend w/ coverage. In this case, its not usually as simple as just taking the highest per target dps one, since its reach or radius may be poor. If ya really want to go through all powersets again, I'll perhaps go into them later w/ more time, but if there's any particular powersets you'd like AoE advice for, then just ask.
    I'll be more specific. I've been gone for a REALLY long time. Back then we typically did Dodge Defensive Gear and CDR Utilities. The question was more about gearing. Sorry if I wasn't clear. Would it be more appropriate to do HP Defense Gear and still use the CDR Utilities? To be more specific about the second part (referring to INT), is taking INT as a PSS worth it these days? I've seen your build dump, I'm not sure how updated you keep it (since they are just compilations) use a lot of INT PSS. Would you still recommend me to do the same?
    Yea, I prob will revise some of the build guides, though I'm waiting a bit on the Planner being updated as otherwise updating the build guides to reflect newer changes is a PITA.

    For Dodge vs. other options: generally I'd now recommend staying w/ Defense and/or more MaxHP if ur not already making a build w/ a dodge passive and/or many dodge-boosting powers (and/or using BCR/RR, for mroe chances for the dodge-heal to proc)). Dodge/avoid gearing can still be good for overall mitigation even after the rating nerf on it, but then ur weighing its more RNG nature vs. more reliable options. That, and many FF builds still use the Ward_Guardicator offense/defense loop to make Defense on gear ~25% better in returns, so many people just stick w/ the more reliable options w/ those builds.

    Int PSS is good, and esp when paired w/ AoPM builds, though its not really gonna be the best at anything. Detect Vuln is good for boosting dps, but only on higher-ranking targets. as henchmen have little to no resist to start w/ and DV can't take innate enemy resist past 0% (unlike most -resist effects). Expertise is also good for pairing w/ SS's like Dex for the extra crit or Con for the extra maxHP.

    Ego PSS and Dex PSS usually are higher dps options for ranged builds vs. Int PSS, and Str PSS + Con SS is also viable for many Ranged builds that want to be really sturdy via Juggernaut. However, then the issue is that more things tend to interact w/ Int than any of those stats, so it'll also depend on what powers ur taking and if something like, say, STR/Con/Int for a Ranged build can still satisfy ur energy needs.
    Which set would lead to more overall DPS. Since I wouldn't want a lot of downtime because of me having to use Energy Builders because my Energy Unlock isn't enough to keep my main powers up. Again, this is primarily for the ones I've mentioned in the question.
    I can give ya a sample template to build from each of those powers, if ya want. But in general, I'd use an Int PSS + AoPM build for FC, and EGO/Con/Dex_End, INT/Con/Dex_End, or DEX/Int/Con SS setups for the rest- w/ the offensive passive depending on the dmg types w/in.
    I've seen in a lot of the builds you've suggested you have a preference to Palliate's Absolve. Is there any fight where you'd constantly need to wipe threat?
    Yea, I make pretty good mileage of threat wipes on my dps toons, though ofc it greatly depends on the groups/tank involved, if the content is 'trivial' or not, the length of the fight itself, and how strong the dps of the build actually is. I'm much more likely to use that threat wipe on my LArc dps toon than, say, my Earth dps toon. Palliate can also be used on allies as well, or to drop an aggro train that's following you.
    I wouldn't call a threat wipe essential, though- esp if you run w/ high-threat tanks or are doing easier content. Its just a situational tool like most non-direct attacks in this game. An alternative approach when getting aggro from something threatening is to just embrace death, continue dpsing w/o abandon, and use a self-res like Rebirth as a come-back, since death is a full threat wipe anyways. I normally wouldn't take this route to wiping threat, mainly cause self-reses have an even longer cd, but it can work.
    From what I understand, it's good to have 1 AD/AO/Heal(Probably Conviction for me)/Threat Wipe(Leaning to Palliate's Absolve). Especially since I won't be PvPing. Would you have a recommendation on good block powers? I'm leaning towards getting the Darkness Block (I forgot the name) Because of the Voracious Darkness? Advantage.
    VD recently got nerfed to capping at 5 stacks and is now a 3-pt adv, though this is honestly more balanced to what it was before. It still a good block effect, but other options are a bit more palatable now.

    When I comes to block enhancers, I typically just pick a thematic one and get at least R2 in it, since the core function of all the blocks are the same (well, mostly.. ignore Fluidity for non-dodge builds). However, its hard to go wrong w/ Force Shield + Sheath; more energy + some defense linger effect in one. TK's block has a decent linger adv for defense, Laser Knight on Energy Sword is great for melee builds, Bestial SN's new block gives some knock resist when hit, Retaliation_Guard can be nice if using charged attacks, Parry has dmg kickback vs. big hitters, and other blocks generally add 2ndary effects that could synergize w/ certain builds. Etc..
    Post edited by flowcyto on
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • raighnraighn Posts: 2,339 Arc User
    soupology said:

    Thanks for Replying! I'll probably pattern my builds after this, though I'm still on the fence about not having an AD and I'm not too kind on psuedo tanking on a DPS because my threat is out of control. Could you tell me more about your experiences in 40 content as a DPS and why you don't feel you need those 2?


    With very few exceptions, all attacks that PvE enemies throw at you that would make an AD useful have tells and plenty of time to block. Sure an AD can in theory help maximize your DPS by making you not have to block as often, but in practice the DPS increase is negligible. I'm not saying that taking an AD for a DPS build is bad, just that it's unnecessary, and most endgame content makes well timed blocks far more important. Personally, the only AD I ever bother with on any of my DPS builds is Resurgence and I don't use it as an AD it's an emergency Self-Heal. Just a personal philosophy of mine "If I have to rely on an AD to keep me alive, I've done something wrong".

    As for Threat Wipes... Unless you are grabbing the attention of Bosses from your tank all the time you really don't need them... and even then you don't actually "need" them... if you know your threat is out of control then there's a couple things you can do that will help drastically. First, wait a few moments for the tank to secure threat before you attack bosses, this is an important strategy for any DPS in any MMO honestly... If you take boss aggro BLOCK, Stop attacking as soon as you see them targeting you and block, sure your DPS will drop for a little but the tank will regain threat easily if you do this, follow up with waiting a few moments for the tank to properly secure threat again before attacking... Personally I don't use Threat Wipes, mainly because as I said they are not needed, threat management is far more effective than threat wipes in the long run. But also because in my experience threat wipes are really little more than band-aid solutions. It's really not that hard to manage threat. Also, if your running your DPS in Hybrid role, switch to DPS role, not only will you deal even more damage but you'll generate significantly less threat.
    ^-^ cute, cuddly, @Pandabutt ^-^
    jniKqKJ.png
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,852 Arc User
    Again, something like a threat wipe is not 'essential' (few things really are in CO)- it just really depends on the playstye, who the player runs with, and what they plan on doing as far as content. When it comes to getting 'sufficient' survival tools for FF dps builds, there's isn't really a one-size-fits-all answer, and even it being 'sufficient' can be wildly diff between diff players and diff builds.
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • soupologysoupology Posts: 10 Arc User
    Just an example problem. I have an Electricity Build

    PowerHouse   (Link to this build)

    Name:

    Archetype: Freeform

    Super Stats:
    Level 6: Ego (Primary)
    Level 10: Endurance (Secondary)
    Level 15: Constitution (Secondary)

    Talents:
    Level 1: The Scourge
    Level 6: Daredevil
    Level 9: Ascetic
    Level 12: Boundless Reserves
    Level 15: Wordly
    Level 18: Amazing Stamina
    Level 21: Quick Recovery

    Powers:
    Level 1: Electric Bolt
    Level 1: Lightning Arc (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 6: Electric Form (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 8: Ionic Reverberation
    Level 11: Concentration
    Level 14: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 17: Palliate (Absolve)
    Level 20: Ball Lightning (Triplicity)
    Level 23: Lightning Storm (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 26: Telekinetic Shield (Telekinetic Reinforcement)
    Level 29: Ego Surge (Nimble Mind)
    Level 32: Masterful Dodge
    Level 35:
    Level 38:

    Travel Powers:
    Level 6: Electro Flight
    Level 35: Athletics

    Specializations:
    Ego: Force of Will (2/2)
    Ego: Insight (3/3)
    Ego: Follow Through (3/3)
    Ego: Sixth Sense (2/3)
    Guardian: Fortified Gear (3/3)
    Guardian: Ruthless (2/2)
    Guardian: Find the Mark (2/3)
    Guardian: The Best Defense (3/3)
    Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
    Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
    Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
    Vindicator: Mass Destruction (2/3)
    Mastery: Ego Mastery (1/1)


    My problem though is I don't know what else to put to fill out the last 2 slots. I can put Resurgence as a Heal probably. But would Rebirth be worth taking as a power.

    Note: I'm asking assuming the people who run it aren't the best players (i.e. not all might have super high threat builds). This isn't to say that I don't have faults, but there are circumstances where I'm basically tanking and would like to be able to survive/not get targetted as a dps.
  • raighnraighn Posts: 2,339 Arc User
    Electrocute would be a great choice as a utility power... guaranteed Negative Ions proc and a paralyze, plus an advantage to debuff your enemies electricity resistance... it's practically a no brainer choice for an electricity build...

    The last slot could be litterally anything... though some might recommend a party res or a self-res power since you have the available slot anyways...

    You've also still got 13 advantage points left, 2 of which would got to Electrocute's Superconductor advantage... may as well takie Palliate to R2 and get some more health from it... which leaves you with 9 more to do whatever with...
    ^-^ cute, cuddly, @Pandabutt ^-^
    jniKqKJ.png
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,852 Arc User
    The paralyze won't be great in groups as a dps due to inc dmg breaking it easily, but on trash it can serve to keep one target preoccupied for a bit if ur team is having issues and turtling a bit to avoid dying. I'd rank up TK Shield if ya have extra adv points left after getting the last 2 powers (w/e they end up being).

    A last power slot(s) being a wildcard is really just up to ur playstyle or experiences and if there's any 'holes' left ya could want to fill: like like a self or an ally res, another dps cd, another survival cd, another heal, an ultimate, CoPD, nanobot swarm, energy wave w/ rev polarity, sigils, etc.
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
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