I'm also in agreement with the others on the aura thing. All my current 40s have set designs, and I have no need for them to pick up new auras.
Doing the grind with a level 6 because I need that aura for their concept is just a no go, and sort of a stupid one at that.
Its no different than locking costume bots at per character. I imagine the stats for aura purchases will bear that out too. I haven't seen a single person wearing them since the event began.
On a related noted, there is no clear reference as to what the new auras look like. Gold players can check this on the PTS, but silvers just have to take a gamble that the aura will work with the character they spend hours grinding it on, or find that effort wasted.
For their current prices auras should be account bound, all making them character bound does is discourages people from participating in the event and increases the burn out rate for those who are participating.
Forms are not intended, were never intended, to be "maintain 8 stacks indefinitely". Player knowledge and build skill, as well as changes made since On Alert, have allowed people to game the system, but without balancing by devs for years.
MA forms have not been made any easier to stack or keep active. Enrage used to stack by just using your enrage power every 30 seconds.
I think it's odd to claim as a fact that forms were not intended to be kept up to 8 stacks. Every stackable form ever made before AotM, has been easy to maintain.
I see a lot of dependency on Form duration here. I, for one, welcome the duration changes. Maybe it's my play style, maybe it's the way I build characters, but I've never had to depend on a Form to get the most out of my characters. My Photon Fury character is a good example. Pestilence passive, Concentration, most of the damage is Particle and DoT (clinging flames, poison, Pest, particle burn, Anguish) and the character literally melts foes without being a "I've got to put everything into the best stats possible to get the most out of my super easy to stack form with the best damage passive so that I can be one of the Elites" build.
A character that uses Concentration I would not put forward as an example of a character that doesn't depend on a form to get the most out of things.
Another example of mine is my character Echo. Unarmed/Might/Unstop/Enrage. Can easily build and maintain Enrage and will be able to do so even after these changes go Live.
I guess I'm not seeing what the big deal is here.
Probably because you should not look at "how can this work" and only at your own characters, but at "how can this cause a problem".
On a related noted, there is no clear reference as to what the new auras look like. Gold players can check this on the PTS, but silvers just have to take a gamble that the aura will work with the character they spend hours grinding it on, or find that effort wasted.
The Champs Online TV team work hard to produce videos both on upcoming and existing content but also...auras. The only thing is that I feel it should be advertised more.
Bug? Rank 3 enrage (all forms?) reset to 0 instead of 3 when form duration expires. This has been bothering me for while, but now its even more annoying. I went on PTS to test the enrage nerf assuming that I would not be hit as bad because I use rank 3 enrage. I tested by soloing Nightmare portals. I immediately noticed that enrage would expire and completely reset between Nightmare spawns. I would then have the choice of just standing there and waiting for the stacks to slowly auto-stack back to 3 or just jump in and stack them the old fashioned way (I may as well do the latter).
Before the duration nerf, this would happen occasionally, but not be that noticeable. Now it happens constantly and functionally defeats the purpose of having a rank 3 form. I didn't spend 4 advantage points to have 0 stack at the start of a fight.
If this cant be fixed, then ranking up enrage (forms) needs to give duration instead of stacks.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
Probably because you should not look at "how can this work" and only at your own characters, but at "how can this cause a problem".
What he's pointing out (and what some people refuse to admit) is that most players can do an insane amount of DPS, even without a form. It's not like any dps issue (with the exception of a fixed AT) can't be remedied with a simple build adjustment. This is just like the 2GM panic that people went on. Well guess what players are still doing top charting dps with 2GM. Just like players will adapt to this change and still do decent dps. The only difference is players might have to adjust play styles and builds to get there.
People complained and complained the game was unbalanced. Things weren't getting fixed. And so on. Well guess what they are getting fixed now.
MA forms have not been made any easier to stack or keep active. Enrage used to stack by just using your enrage power every 30 seconds.
I think it's odd to claim as a fact that forms were not intended to be kept up to 8 stacks. Every stackable form ever made before AotM, has been easy to maintain.
MA Forms actually seem about right in this respect. They are a little trickier to get going, especially before a fight.
As far as my odd claim, the devs have said it here on the forums.
Has anyone tested: Pestilence with cut where it counts and trama? I did using all three Feint's trama's advantage I used when I tested healing was reduced by:Pestilence and cut where it counts but not by trama. tested on live.
Probably because you should not look at "how can this work" and only at your own characters, but at "how can this cause a problem".
What he's pointing out (and what some people refuse to admit) is that most players can do an insane amount of DPS, even without a form. It's not like any dps issue (with the exception of a fixed AT) can't be remedied with a simple build adjustment. This is just like the 2GM panic that people went on. Well guess what players are still doing top charting dps with 2GM. Just like players will adapt to this change and still do decent dps. The only difference is players might have to adjust play styles and builds to get there.
People complained and complained the game was unbalanced. Things weren't getting fixed. And so on. Well guess what they are getting fixed now.
How exactly are things getting fixed by a changing enrage duration?
MA forms have not been made any easier to stack or keep active. Enrage used to stack by just using your enrage power every 30 seconds.
I think it's odd to claim as a fact that forms were not intended to be kept up to 8 stacks. Every stackable form ever made before AotM, has been easy to maintain.
MA Forms actually seem about right in this respect. They are a little trickier to get going, especially before a fight.
As far as my odd claim, the devs have said it here on the forums.
Even a dev can be wrong when claiming things that are contradictory to history or in-game mechanics. When claiming forms were never meant to be kept up at 8 stacks, why have all of them except 1 (that is almost never used) always been easy to keep up at max stacks? That pretty much assumes the devs that actually added them were completely incompetent and unable to see how forms would be used. We've been having more of these "it was never intended" things lately which were in complete contradiction to how CO has played since the first year it was released. Some time ago with Conviction which was claimed to be an outlier for not having an activation time, even though none of the heal powers on a cooldown without damage component (palliate, BCR, resurgence, nanotbots adv, ascension, conviction) had an activation time until Absorb heat was added. And now claims about how forms were intended. It might be better to just not do that and use "my preference is to balance things like...".
Also, MA forms are far more flexible in how they can be stacked then Enrage ever was.
BUG: Neither AotB nor FotS are stacking properly upon Bleed refresh attempts.
Tested this w/ both toggles using both Eviscerate (not fully charged) and Bite's Scent of Blood adv for the refresh, and Shred to apply Bleed. Although I was gaining Focus_Enraged stacks upon bleed application and ruptures, I wasn't gaining them on refreshing existing bleeds alone.
BUG: Bite's Rabies is still not refreshing Poisons against 1 target.
BUG: AotB has stopped working w/ Poison entirely (either apply or refresh). I assume ya guys still intend AotB to work w/ Poisons.
I find it a bit absurd that AotI is more restrictive w/ just Poisons now than AotB is supposed to be (stack on Poison apply vs. apply, refresh, or 'rupture', though ya can't rupture poison afaik :x ).
And I hope ya guys consider making forms scale w/ their primary stats (even if its not as much as the old Enraged!)
What he's pointing out (and what some people refuse to admit) is that most players can do an insane amount of DPS, even without a form. It's not like any dps issue (with the exception of a fixed AT) can't be remedied with a simple build adjustment. This is just like the 2GM panic that people went on. Well guess what players are still doing top charting dps with 2GM. Just like players will adapt to this change and still do decent dps. The only difference is players might have to adjust play styles and builds to get there.
People complained and complained the game was unbalanced. Things weren't getting fixed. And so on. Well guess what they are getting fixed now.
Except, with the exception of 2gm, the things they're tweaking were never the problems.
People are going to have 8 stacks. Game needs to be balanced at 8 stacks. Making 8 stacks harder to get or maintain doesn't affect that at all, it just makes it more annoying for players, and reduces the viable character build space to no noticeable benefit.
As was stated with the Manipulator change, the Enrage change was done to prevent the form from essentially being a second passive. Like any form that triggers off of a specific action, players are expected to have something in their build to trigger it reliably in order to maintain it.
If you feel there is a gap in certain frameworks where this form is present (Might, HW, Earth, Bestial), feel free to bring those to light and offer suggestions.
With all due respect you also said this in that same post.
Rage still has its duration scaling from con from the stone ages, and perhaps other forms can get something similar in the future.
Its not unreasonable to interpret this as you suggesting that other forms would be brought in line with enrage, not the other way around.
Forms that are activated by general default combat action like concentration and Form of the Tempest (which can even be proced by your energy builder), cannot be treated the same as forms that proc from more narrowly defined action/powers like many other forms (especially enrage and manipulator). This is an apples to oranges situation. It would be more balanced to use data mining to determine how frequently these actions are taken on average and balance form duration on a case by case basis.
I don't expect to change your mind about this decision but what is being done with form duration is standardization and NOT balance. What you are doing is like treating bear and vodka the same just because they are both alcohol.
This is more an enrage nerf than something else...Hope you know that's aggressor is suppose to refresh enrage right why don't you reduce aggressor CD than nerfing enrange it's self? nerfing is boring, more nerfing but you call that "balanced", means lose of players...
All auras should be account bound, not character bound, in my opinion. If we have to put up with this badly conceived idea of an aura system then making them account bound is the least that can be done for the players.
Exactly my thoughts. This makes me want to avoid participating at all. No thanks. All auras should be bind to account -- no exceptions, just as all costumes should be account-wide unlocks -- no exceptions.
BUG (live): Portal group's travel power disable doesn't appear to have any animation. (It's the ranged villain-level enemy who does it, but there's no tell whatsoever except your travel power suddenly shutting off).
BUG (live): Portal group's travel power disable doesn't appear to grant 'freedom' for 15s after the travel power lockout ends like player nttg does. (Travel power becomes available and then can be disabled literally the moment afterwards).
As was stated with the Manipulator change, the Enrage change was done to prevent the form from essentially being a second passive. Like any form that triggers off of a specific action, players are expected to have something in their build to trigger it reliably in order to maintain it.
If you feel there is a gap in certain frameworks where this form is present (Might, HW, Earth, Bestial), feel free to bring those to light and offer suggestions.
Hmm... I have a question. Does this mean that forms will only work properly if they are the base of a supporting powerset? In other words, if I use Aspect of the Bestial then I can only use powers that will support stacking enrage and applying refreshing or rupture bleeds and poisons for it to work properly? If this is the case, then what is the purpose of using forms? May as well just use AT's because that is exactly what it looks like you have to do when using a form; build an AT yourself.
Fixed a bug where Open Palm Strike's Focused Chi Blast advantage caused the power to deal 0 damage of every damage
The fact that you noticed this suggest that you were testing OPS and getting ready to adjust it. Be gentle with my baby (like you were with massacre ) . And don't remove the knock (I use it with enrage).
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
Just tested out the enrage timer change, still easy to stack, still easy to maintain. So, all you belly-aching over this, its not the end of the world.
As was stated with the Manipulator change, the Enrage change was done to prevent the form from essentially being a second passive. Like any form that triggers off of a specific action, players are expected to have something in their build to trigger it reliably in order to maintain it.
If you feel there is a gap in certain frameworks where this form is present (Might, HW, Earth, Bestial), feel free to bring those to light and offer suggestions.
Unfortunately, forms basically are second passives. Annoying passives that get switched off when you dismount a vehicle, transform, or recover from death. There's really nothing that can be done about this, but that's really just fine since you can only use 1 at a time.
Anyway, as another user said, the change to enrage totally sucks. If anything, it really should've gone in the other direction by allowing other form buff durations to scale up like enrage currently does.
Please reconsider this, as gimping the duration really doesn't contribute anything positive or meaningful to gameplay. Just more unpleasant annoyance.
(Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
This also needs to be reconsidered. My "main" character doesn't have any reason to pick up all the holy auras currently available, nor do any of my current characters because it doesn't fit their themes. I do want the holy water power though so that a future holy-based character can access it. I would also try for those auras for the same reason, but since they don't fit any of my current characters, why bother?
Now I partially get the reasoning: It means that as long as people are creating characters, there will be a desire to run this content to get those auras for said characters. Would it not make the players happier if instead, a few new things were added for them to work toward each time?
(Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
Comments
I'm also in agreement with the others on the aura thing. All my current 40s have set designs, and I have no need for them to pick up new auras.
Doing the grind with a level 6 because I need that aura for their concept is just a no go, and sort of a stupid one at that.
Its no different than locking costume bots at per character. I imagine the stats for aura purchases will bear that out too. I haven't seen a single person wearing them since the event began.
On a related noted, there is no clear reference as to what the new auras look like. Gold players can check this on the PTS, but silvers just have to take a gamble that the aura will work with the character they spend hours grinding it on, or find that effort wasted.
Its a bad idea.
Enrage used to stack by just using your enrage power every 30 seconds.
I think it's odd to claim as a fact that forms were not intended to be kept up to 8 stacks.
Every stackable form ever made before AotM, has been easy to maintain. A character that uses Concentration I would not put forward as an example of a character that doesn't depend on a form to get the most out of things. Probably because you should not look at "how can this work" and only at your own characters, but at "how can this cause a problem".
Here: >>> New Auras <<<
The Champs Online TV team work hard to produce videos both on upcoming and existing content but also...auras. The only thing is that I feel it should be advertised more.
My Characters on PRIMUS
[#]WeNeedHeroicFashion - <Aura Suggestions> - <CO Wiki (WIP)> - <Crowd Control Discussion> - <Telepathy in Champions Online> - How to review The Force Power Set - Join the Champions Online: On Alert Discord!
I am @RavenForce in game
__________________________
Rank 3 enrage (all forms?) reset to 0 instead of 3 when form duration expires.
This has been bothering me for while, but now its even more annoying. I went on PTS to test the enrage nerf assuming that I would not be hit as bad because I use rank 3 enrage. I tested by soloing Nightmare portals. I immediately noticed that enrage would expire and completely reset between Nightmare spawns. I would then have the choice of just standing there and waiting for the stacks to slowly auto-stack back to 3 or just jump in and stack them the old fashioned way (I may as well do the latter).
Before the duration nerf, this would happen occasionally, but not be that noticeable. Now it happens constantly and functionally defeats the purpose of having a rank 3 form. I didn't spend 4 advantage points to have 0 stack at the start of a fight.
If this cant be fixed, then ranking up enrage (forms) needs to give duration instead of stacks.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
People complained and complained the game was unbalanced. Things weren't getting fixed. And so on. Well guess what they are getting fixed now.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
As far as my odd claim, the devs have said it here on the forums.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
When claiming forms were never meant to be kept up at 8 stacks, why have all of them except 1 (that is almost never used) always been easy to keep up at max stacks?
That pretty much assumes the devs that actually added them were completely incompetent and unable to see how forms would be used.
We've been having more of these "it was never intended" things lately which were in complete contradiction to how CO has played since the first year it was released.
Some time ago with Conviction which was claimed to be an outlier for not having an activation time, even though none of the heal powers on a cooldown without damage component (palliate, BCR, resurgence, nanotbots adv, ascension, conviction) had an activation time until Absorb heat was added.
And now claims about how forms were intended.
It might be better to just not do that and use "my preference is to balance things like...".
Also, MA forms are far more flexible in how they can be stacked then Enrage ever was.
Tested this w/ both toggles using both Eviscerate (not fully charged) and Bite's Scent of Blood adv for the refresh, and Shred to apply Bleed. Although I was gaining Focus_Enraged stacks upon bleed application and ruptures, I wasn't gaining them on refreshing existing bleeds alone.
BUG: Bite's Rabies is still not refreshing Poisons against 1 target.
BUG: AotB has stopped working w/ Poison entirely (either apply or refresh). I assume ya guys still intend AotB to work w/ Poisons.
I find it a bit absurd that AotI is more restrictive w/ just Poisons now than AotB is supposed to be (stack on Poison apply vs. apply, refresh, or 'rupture', though ya can't rupture poison afaik :x ).
And I hope ya guys consider making forms scale w/ their primary stats (even if its not as much as the old Enraged!)
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
People are going to have 8 stacks. Game needs to be balanced at 8 stacks. Making 8 stacks harder to get or maintain doesn't affect that at all, it just makes it more annoying for players, and reduces the viable character build space to no noticeable benefit.
VARIANT
"Nearly all men can withstand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."
-Abraham Lincoln-
We used to do just fine without them, after all.
Snark never dies.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
...And, if they "forget" to re-adjust hit points on things in Rampages, TA, Cosmic fights, Duratok / Ironclad, complain about that.
Antagonize still uses walking animations with the low speed flight stages.
BUG (live): Portal group's travel power disable doesn't appear to grant 'freedom' for 15s after the travel power lockout ends like player nttg does. (Travel power becomes available and then can be disabled literally the moment afterwards).
We should at least have consistent mechanics.
Just verified this on the PTS now. But original testing was here:
http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/championsonline/#/discussion/1205374/new-bestial-powers-the-numbers-are-worrying
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
Be gentle with my baby (like you were with massacre
And don't remove the knock (I use it with enrage).
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Anyway, as another user said, the change to enrage totally sucks. If anything, it really should've gone in the other direction by allowing other form buff durations to scale up like enrage currently does.
Please reconsider this, as gimping the duration really doesn't contribute anything positive or meaningful to gameplay. Just more unpleasant annoyance.
Now I partially get the reasoning: It means that as long as people are creating characters, there will be a desire to run this content to get those auras for said characters. Would it not make the players happier if instead, a few new things were added for them to work toward each time?