More costume redesigns on the comic book market

meedacthunist · April 2016

Seems like redoing costumes for classic (more or less known) characters is all the rage now.

This time Dynamite Press got to redoing their cheesecakes, uhm, no... should be "strong female characters", only characters most of people probably heard about.

http://comicsalliance.com/nicola-scott-vampirella-dejah-thoris-red-sonja-dynamite/

I'd say about time, though Red Sonja's new costume is still ridiculous it's now only Conan level of ridiculous.

sonja.0.jpg

New costume for Vampirella looks great.

vamp.0.jpg

Of course there was a mandatory small basement outcry about [insertsalthere]destroying tradition[/insertsalthere], but since these aren't the Big Two books nobody really paid attention to it anyway.

Here's me wondering if anyone will dare to redesign Lady Death. Though I'm not sure if her design can be salvaged. Or if there's anything in the character for salvaging, but that's a different thing.

riverocean · April 2016

I like the Vampirella redesign a whole lot.

guyhumual · April 2016

So if anyone remembers Red Sonja they think "Red hair, scale mail bikini", the best we got is a belly shirt of scale mail visible in the redesign. She's still showing off a ridiculous amount of skin for a warrior and wearing scale mail against bare skin. So basically they've taken some of the worst elements from the original design and removed all the iconic elements to make a new generic pin up warrior girl. Thumbs down for me. The design looks great, they want to give that character a new name she's cool, but if they call that Red Sonja I call it a fail.

As for Vampirella we have hints of that ridiculous bathing suit, with the white collar, and the logo that sometimes appears on her crotch in a much more sensible location. That's a far better reimagining IMO. I don't care for the face, I don't think that has much semblance to Vampirella, but the new outfit gets my approval.

nepht · April 2016

Red Sonja looks like she dusted off a costume she wore decades ago and Vampirella has stole Claire Redfield's clothes. Red Sonja one I actually like. Vampirella one is just ripping off Capcom.

beezeeze · April 2016

The cloak covering up the Red Sonja one doesn't give us all that many details and I seriously doubt she'll be wearing that all the time, but from what is shown it doesn't look that bad...and yeah the chain mail bikini was pretty silly but her male counterpart Conan went around fighting in furry boots and a fuzzy diaper, barbarians don't need armor. The Vampirella one is ok but without the emblem on the back I wouldn't really know who it was supposed to be(same goes for Sonja too I guess, but like I said I doubt she'll be wearing that cloak all the time and her red hair is such an iconic part of the character that she should be much easier to identify) than again out of these two characters Sonja is by far my favorite and Vampirella has never really interested me.

flyingfinn · April 2016

Nope. Nope. Nope.
Silver coin bikinis and red straps are the only way to go.

Now it's like some barbarian chick (that cape/cowl is silly...) and Tomb Raiderilla....

jennymachx · April 2016

Welp, there's no place these days for the classic outfits for those two. Better to be safe from the SJW and ultra-feminist mobs.

meedacthunist · April 2016

Totally zero care about Red Sonja, but new Vampirella is simply them changing direction of the book. Like this new cover:

jennymachx · April 2016

Vampirella was all about her being a heroine while never making any attempt to hide her true nature as a vampire, both visually and in mannerisms. She was always the "good" monster who went against the "bad" ones that make up the majority of her race. Yeah, she showed a lot of skin, but her look was raw and bestial, especially when she meant business having her fangs and claws out with a fierce predatory look in her eyes. Unmistakably vampire.

What exactly screams "vampire" about her new look? A crossbow? Belt satchels? What is she, Ms. Van Helsing? I genuinely giggled at the "Tomb Raiderilla" remark and agree with it.

Female Blade / Vampire Hunter Shooty McArrow was already done by the way in Blade: Trinity. Her name is Abigail Whistler.

meedacthunist · April 2016

There isn't a lot in this costume to scream "vampire" (not like it was a lot of it in the old one, unless she was drawn with her fangs showing), but there's a lot of screaming "Dynamite Press pulling some more publicity with redesigns and maybe draw some readers since their numbers at Diamond shipping lists weren't that great and this one quick trick enabled them to break 10k sales."
That's why it was made. If they're lucky, these sale numbers miiight actually stick for longer. Or not. Covers are pretty, but interiors could use some more "oomph!".

But I like this costume because it's simply pretty.

It's not like the new costume really prevents any more tacky way of drawing her, in the end it all depends from the artists:

flyingfinn · April 2016

I take that Tomb Raiderilla back....It's more like Harley Quinrella.....or both of them mixed together......droool

guyhumual · April 2016

I do like that redesign and those two covers, especially that last one. In an age with internet porn I doubt teens need sexy comic book characters as much anymore.

jennymachx · April 2016

flyingfinn said:
I take that Tomb Raiderilla back....It's more like Harley Quinrella.....or both of them mixed together......droool

Lol down boy down.

On second thought that's a pretty stylish kickass outfit. I'm still not digging the crossbow though. I want more fangs and claws.

guyhumual · April 2016

jennymachx said:

On second thought that's a pretty stylish kickass outfit. I'm still not digging the crossbow though. I want more fangs and claws.

Yes, I agree, the crossbow isn't something that really fits with Vampirella, though maybe it's something she uses to scare off human targets so she doesn't run the risk or tearing them limb from limb or something.

Also, one of the web comics I read had a fun little Vampirella filler art a couple days ago:
ma3comic.com/strips-ma3/didilina_ziirella_-_at_calgary_expo

meedacthunist · April 2016

She was using claws, and gloves on the new costume are fingerless anyway.

Kinda pointless to carry a weapon that weak when you're a vampire.

Now, if she was using a pair of .50 AE or something .50 BMG...

That would be fun. Or more Tomb Raider.

But if you do an upgrade, at least upgrade to the best.

markhawkman · April 2016

Actually, since she's a vampire she can use a crossbow with a more powerful draw than a human could. That tiny thing she carries could probably put a steel bolt through a car door.

meedacthunist · April 2016

Still a whimp compared to a firearm. Looks good only for stabbing other vampires with wooden stakes, I suppose.

markhawkman · April 2016

Enh, the fundamental limitation on a crossbow's power is the draw strength. There are a variety of ways people have found to enhance a human's ability to pull the string into the cocked position. One is to use both hands while holding the bow with your foot. Another is a crank mechanism. Neither is really effective for a single handed model.

then there's the use of Recurve bows. Note the pulleys that are part of the bow. They're designed to increase the power by increasing the length of the string. But those work even better for a vampire since they amplify the draw strength.

But even a vampire isn't going to get a high rate of fire with a single shot crossbow. They will get heavy target penetration though.

meedacthunist · April 2016

I know what you're saying, and I know how crossbow works, but even a modern recurve and synthetic crossbows with pulleys aren't even as powerful as standard issue handguns.

Pulling steel shafts through a car door is basically an upper level of what crossbow can, but a baseline off which it starts for a combat handgun or a rifle.

So yeah, not even in the same ballpark.

biffsmackwell · April 2016

I really like the Vampirella one. The thing she wore before was totally ridiculous. The crossbow weapon? Who cares what it could do in real life or with vampire strength, it's just her chosen weapon for whatever reason. If the writer wants to, they can make it more powerful than a rocket launcher. I really dig the look of the tights under the suit, that's cool.

Red Sonya looks like she's about to go visit the Great Pumpkin.

markhawkman · April 2016

meedacthunist said:
I know what you're saying, and I know how crossbow works, but even a modern recurve and synthetic crossbows with pulleys aren't even as powerful as standard issue handguns.

Pulling steel shafts through a car door is basically an upper level of what crossbow can, but a baseline off which it starts for a combat handgun or a rifle.

So yeah, not even in the same ballpark.

Actually, penetration is partly based on the size of the round you fire. 5 grams does less damage than 50 at the same speed. Bullets are a lot lighter than crossbow bolts, so to get the same penetration they need to be fired at higher speeds.

But, like Biff said, it's an artistic choice, not a practical one. One thing that amuses me is that in none of the pics is she carrying more than one crossbow bolt.

meedacthunist · April 2016

Yeah, I know.

Comic books =/= anything approaching realism.

Though it's considerably easier to fire a tiny piece of lead at high velocities than to do so with a crossbow bolt.

Modern adapter devices for firing nets and bolts from rifles are even more clunky and big than a small crossbow.

And bullets are useless for staking vampires. IIRC Vampirella's mostly hunting evil vampires.

championshewolf · May 2016

markhawkman wrote: »

But even a vampire isn't going to get a high rate of fire with a single shot crossbow. They will get heavy target penetration though.

A hand crossbow? Not bloody likely. It's there for the rule of cool and frankly, she doesn't look it. She looks like she's trying to be one of Blade's harem now, not that her original look was done for more than just drawing eyeballs to covers. Can't say Vampirella was ever that interesting of a character to me.

beezeeze · May 2016

Here is a much better look at Red Sonja ...oh look she is weaing slightly more clothing..shocking!
Still looks like Red Sonja though, honestly I think the cloaked version was only put out first so create more controversy, because as redsigns go this is a pretty tame one.

meedacthunist · May 2016

Red Sonja switched her favorite outfit designer from Frank Frazetta to Larry Elmore. That's about it.

markhawkman · May 2016

I wanna see them redesign Kulan Gath, Selene, and Shuma Gorath now.

guyhumual · May 2016

Well with the red hair and scale mail visible it's a much more like a re-imagining of Red Sonya, but yes, not a huge change either.

markhawkman · May 2016

I just realized something that's kinda dumb.... She's wearing Scale Mail. IRL scale mail is made by attaching small bits of metal to cloth. But there is no visible cloth backing on hers. which would also make it rather uncomfortable due to chafing...

jennymachx · May 2016

It's fantasy. It's escapism. Not everything has to make sense.

guyhumual · May 2016

markhawkman said:
I just realized something that's kinda dumb.... She's wearing Scale Mail. IRL scale mail is made by attaching small bits of metal to cloth. But there is no visible cloth backing on hers. which would also make it rather uncomfortable due to chafing...

That's forever been the problem with Red Sonja, though if you think it's bad here google her and check out her classic outfit.

jennymachx · May 2016

Conan the Barbarian who lives in the same world setting as Red Sonja wears only has a fur loincloth and no armor and that's somehow acceptable, but a metal bikini is somehow ridiculous and a "problem".

There was nothing really wrong with her old outfit, given the context of the source material. Neither does the revamped mail shirt.

markhawkman · May 2016

guyhumual said:

markhawkman said:
I just realized something that's kinda dumb.... She's wearing Scale Mail. IRL scale mail is made by attaching small bits of metal to cloth. But there is no visible cloth backing on hers. which would also make it rather uncomfortable due to chafing...
That's forever been the problem with Red Sonja, though if you think it's bad here google her and check out her classic outfit.

Google was not necessary.

Yeah, it was worse.

guyhumual · May 2016

jennymachx said:
Conan the Barbarian who lives in the same world setting as Red Sonja wears only has a fur loincloth and no armor and that's somehow acceptable, but a metal bikini is somehow ridiculous and a "problem".

There was nothing really wrong with her old outfit, given the context of the source material. Neither does the revamped mail shirt.

Conan generally uses two handed weapons, he uses a two handed ax a lot though he really doesn't have any signature weapons, having his waist bare does actually make a bit of sense, but Sonja usually uses her signature one handed sword, and thus doesn't need to worry about armor getting in the way of swinging. Plus she's from the real world equivalent of Russia and it gets cold there. Conan is probably from the sunken landmass of Doggerland, an area of land that existed between modern England and France and while it's in no way tropical it's far warmer in England and France then the Steps of Russia.

Now having said all that, I like Red Sonja, I've always had a thing for red heads and Sonja has always been one of my favorites fantasy characters. I liked her old design but if this new design helps win more fans amongst the general public I'm fine with it. I only point these things out because some of these complaints are kind of troublesome and saying "Conan does it too" doesn't really address anything. Personally I don't think there's anything wrong with making sexy female barbarians and I don't think we need to justify why she's wearing a scale mail bikini, I'm not sure pretending that Conan and Red Sonja are the same thing is at all helpful to the argument though.

markhawkman · May 2016

yeah, in those pics she's apparently walking through SNOW.... the cloak is the only thing that even looks like it might keep you halfway warm.

meedacthunist · May 2016

If Red Sonja was at least behaving like a vixen using her looks, then I'd say that scalemail bikini fits her better.
Except her characterisation and her look never really were in the same ballpark. Drawn as a cheesecake in suggestive poses, but talking and behaving as if she was about to drive you with her sword just because you gave her a funny look.
This way the costume looks more rugged and better fits the personality.
Conan at times wears a ripped chainmail or scalemail. Not often, but it happends.

Was it actually about realism in comic books, no heroine ever would wear bikini or tights with boob socks, because given a standard comic book body type they'd all need a pretty good support with sport bra underneath the costume.

Oh, wait... This is actually what Carol Danvers has under her uniform in newest books...

guyhumual · May 2016

I like those points meedacthunist but one could argue that she's simply dressing as the cultural norms for warriors in her society, which is why I find the argument about where she comes from more compelling as to why she shouldn't be running around in a bikini.

I do agree that she's looks more like she acts now which I think helps the character.

meedacthunist · May 2016

There never was any consistent style for warriors in these comics. Some were half-naked, some were clad in full armor.
Even in issues that were happening in the same winter region.

markhawkman · May 2016

I think the movie was somewhat better than the comic book in that regard.

Note: In this one^ you can see that Sonja is not actually wearing scale mail, but a type of plate mail with impractically small plates.

The actress looked reasonably fit, but not as buff as one would expect.

guyhumual · May 2016

meedacthunist said:
There never was any consistent style for warriors in these comics. Some were half-naked, some were clad in full armor.

Even in issues that were happening in the same winter region.

Again, I got nothing against Red Sonja's look or the redesign, I'm just repeating the arguments against the original look that I felt carried some weight. From a meta point of view your argument is better, a character's look should reflect their personality, and the new look is far more badass if you ask me.

guyhumual · May 2016

markhawkman said:
I think the movie was somewhat better than the comic book in that regard.

Note: In this one^ you can see that Sonja is not actually wearing scale mail, but a type of plate mail with impractically small plates.

That's one ugly cover, like something from the 90s when comics didn't need to be good as people were buying faster then they could print them.

markhawkman · May 2016

yeah, her eyes don't look human... and Conan looks like he has a sunburn all over

meedacthunist · May 2016

Conan looks like he was flayed.

kemmicals · May 2016

Holy crap, Vampirella's new look is super adorable.

chaelk · May 2016

looks nothing like on the cover of the Novel, when she landed on the planet.when she came from a race called Vampiri,
ok I have a pile of old books

flyingfinn · June 2016

*Waits for the DC universe Rebirth event to end*

More costume redesigns on the comic book market

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