Gearing for PFF

relkar · April 2016

While there are many discussions concerning how PFF could or should be changed, I ran across one that stated that a PFF tank had successfully tanked a boss in TA. While everyone agrees that PFF needs a rework, the question I posit at this time is how to gear for PFF in the current state. I had read, some time ago, that you should stack as much defense as you can in order to mitigate the damage that your shield takes. I was wondering, however, if anyone had tried adding a significant amount of dodge to your PFF character to see how the damage mitigation worked out. While I know that reaching 100% dodge with PFF is a dream, I can't help but wonder if you can reach 40-50% and how useful it is.

flowcyto · April 2016

Dodge can still be good for PFF tanks, but dodge is one of those things where if ya dun have it very high, ya have to step back and look at the bigger picture of overall mitigation, as its still very rng based. If ya can compensate for the higher rng, then it can work.

If I were to build dodge into PFF, I'd def consider adding one of the few powers that gives a flat dodge bonus, as those are very good for helping along dodge builds. Its not easy to get to 30-35% dodge w/o a dodge passive - but add, say, TKicks on top of some dodge rating and ya can get there w/o much hassle.

theravenforce · April 2016

Technically I am not a PFF tank, but I did tank in TA with my PFF build.

Completely disregard dodge as a gearing source for PFF. It is subject to RNG and that means you will likely be missing out on potential defense for PFF.

Pre-Dodge adjustment/nerf, I was split between defense and dodge and ran around with around 55% dodge chance + 50% defense. Now though, I personally gear for Defense.

However, if your PFF build was to incorporate multiple powers which provided dodge boosts? Then you may be better off going with dodge gear.

As for how useful PFF was with dodge? Dodge/avoidance will almost always trump defense because of how the mechanics differ and apply vs incoming damage, but yes. I could withstand a yellow bubble from Gravitar via my dodge gear WHEN I dodged, without much issue (w/ blocking and sometimes without blocking).

But it was never a 100% chance, which made me quite wary of it.

My main goal with PFF was to make the shield larger (to an extent, going over 9k results in much less rewards in terms of PFF scaling. 10-11k PFF is fun and all but even achieving that without specs is, IMO, a waste of time, since it is not actually that much of an improvement.) and to increase shield durability and sustainability. Of course with how busted PFF is, this is a constant struggle but it is sort of possible to an extent.

I currently sit at a value that's a bit higher than is ideal for PFF maintenance, I could add around 1-2k additional shield but currently the PFF and the build, work for what I want it to accomplish. (I currently sit at 9.1k PFF)

Oh and, I definitely stay away from Compassion Form, the fake increases it grants to maximum shield can produce a number of issues.

flowcyto · April 2016

To be fair, saying that dodge is a bad route now after the dodge rating nerf is a bit off, as before dodge setups were quite amazing and way outdid other defensive options for gear. Bringing dodge rating more in line doesn't make it bad for those not using dodge passives, but small amounts of it def can't be depended upon.

I wouldn't normally go for dodge/avoid on builds w/o dodge passives, but that doesn't mean they are unviable- just that I'd even more heavily recommend at least one dodge-boosting attack on top of that. W/o that, yea ya mine as well go the safer route w/ more Defense.

cyrone · April 2016

This is the build for my PFF tank.

PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Name:

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Dexterity (Primary)
Level 10: Ego (Secondary)
Level 15: Recovery (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Soldier
Level 6: Agile
Level 9: Indomitable
Level 12: Tireless
Level 15: Shooter
Level 18: Impresario
Level 21: Wordly

Powers:
Level 1: Gunslinger
Level 1: Holdout Shot (Stim Pack)
Level 6: Killer Instinct
Level 8: Personal Force Field (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Breakaway Shot (Rank 2)
Level 14: Concentration
Level 17: Lock N Load (Rank 2)
Level 20: Two-Gun Mojo (Rank 2, Crippling Challenge)
Level 23: Lead Tempest (Rank 2, Tread Softly)
Level 26: Field Surge (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 29: Unbreakable (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 32: Force Shield (Rank 2, Force Sheathe)
Level 35: Evasive Maneuvers (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 38: Mighty Leap

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Athletics
Level 35: Rocket Jump (Rank 2, Rank 3)

Specializations:
Dexterity: Combat Training (3/3)
Dexterity: Brush It Off (2/2)
Dexterity: Evasion (2/2)
Dexterity: Quick Reflexes (3/3)
Guardian: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Guardian: Locus (2/2)
Guardian: Ruthless (2/2)
Guardian: The Best Defense (3/3)
Avenger: Ruthless (2/2)
Avenger: Round 'em Up (3/3)
Avenger: Surprise Attack (2/2)
Avenger: Relentless Assault (3/3)
Mastery: Dexterity Mastery (1/1)

He is geared for Defense and gets his dodge bonuses from Dex specs, Lead Tempest, and Evasive Maneuvers. His Offense gearing is for Primary Super Stat. Utility is Cost Redux and Cooldown Redux.

superalfgorn · April 2016

theravenforce said:
Technically I am not a PFF tank, but I did tank in TA with my PFF build.

...

Oh and, I definitely stay away from Compassion Form, the fake increases it grants to maximum shield can produce a number of issues.

This intrigues me. I have PFF on only one character and use the Sentinel Aura/Compassion combo for the +Shield value it gives (using it not only for PFF, but also for Mindful Reinforcement and the healing portion of Rebuke.

So in the build I would probably still use it, but now that you post that it is worthless I am wondering why it is so?

theravenforce · April 2016

superalfgorn said:
This intrigues me. I have PFF on only one character and use the Sentinel Aura/Compassion combo for the +Shield value it gives (using it not only for PFF, but also for Mindful Reinforcement and the healing portion of Rebuke.

So in the build I would probably still use it, but now that you post that it is worthless I am wondering why it is so?

Purely down to personal preference.

I would advocate and probably use Compassion if it interacted with the shield regeneration per 3 seconds as well. (but that would likely cause a number of problems mechanically.)

I don't like the "fake" (shield value only) increase it grants, since the amount being restored per three sec means that PFF technically has to work "harder" to regenerate the new maximum shield value, whilst the base calculation for your shield regeneration works off of the non Compassion boosted value.

That's why when I see Compassion/PFF tanks, I cringe because unless they are super bubbling and healing loads...well...PFF's going to visually look like it's dropping uber fast.

Of course, this all depends on your starting PFF value and how much your build relies on Compassion.

I also don't use any specializations which increase PFF's overall shield.

Note that I never said it was a bad build choice or that it was worthless, if you or anyone else wants to use it then by all means do so. Just as a longtime user of PFF, I wouldn't do so myself. I prefer more "natural PFF strength".

I know Cy's used it on a PFF build before, a pure REC build which if he visits this thread again, he may post.

cyrone · April 2016

theravenforce said:

I know Cy's used it on a PFF build before, a pure REC build which if he visits this thread again, he may post.

The build itself was nothing special. Just a regular PFF Force build with Compassion. Single stat focus on Recovery. Specs were something similar to this:

Specializations:
Recovery: Gear Utilization (3/3)
Recovery: Rapid Recovery (2/3)
Recovery: Staying Power (2/2)
Recovery: Super Charged (3/3)
Overseer: Administer (3/3)
Overseer: Ruthless (2/2)
Overseer: Overseer Aura (3/3)
Overseer: Enhanced Gear (2/3)
Guardian: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Guardian: Locus (2/2)
Guardian: Ruthless (2/2)
Guardian: The Best Defense (3/3)
Mastery: Recovery Mastery (1/1)

If I worked everything out properly I could boast 30k+ shields. But that with extra bubbles on top of PFF.

zhilo1 · April 2016

I have toyed with PFF tanking back before the dodge nerf on gear, following Cyrone's advice on the forums back at the time.
I made a new PFF tank a couple months ago, and I decided to go pure defense, because my decision to stay in theme pretty much locks me out of any dodge granting powers (Red Sentinel, a big bulky robot with ranged particle and other energy looking powers)

I thought having compassion boost my shield would be worth it since the extra shield would at least benefit from defense if not regen, but considering what Theravenforce has posted today I really am not sure what to do.

I struggle a lot with tanking Gravitar and up, the shield just goes down quickly. What can I do to maximize my defense and be a good tank for my team? Should I go wardicator? Right now I am using Ego primary with Dexterity (just for crit chance) and Recovery secondaries because defense based on secondary superstats is the best defense gain i can get outside of juggernaut with STR and CON. Another thought, do I need CON? It didnt seem useful for me but I crave imput from experienced PFF tanks on what stats and specs are not useful for PFF. Should I go guardicator for the loop? would you consider IDF to be a better toggle choice than compassion? or should i go concentration to help with energy and threat?

Recently i got that secondary offense gear from onslaught, the defender bracers of whatever, that give you a bit of shielding and increase threat, which I'm loving so far but am really unsure on the rest of my gear. I got some mercenary primary defence with dodge on it, clearly that was a mistake.

TL DR: What should I prioritize and look for stats/specs/gear wise to squeeze the most defense possible for my shield?

flowcyto · April 2016

Not that I'm the PFF expert (^ he's already here) but it may help to post ur current build.

raighn · April 2016

Here's my experience with PFF and various stat/specs...

CON PSS: good for providing a sizable HP buffer under your shield and quickly healing up any bleed through damage while the shield is up... Deflection & Armored can help keep your shield up longer, but ultimately this is one of the weaker primary stats for PFF...

INT PSS: Like CON this is great for increasing your HP under your shield, but provides little benefit to the shield itself... It can play well with Guardicator or Wardicator builds though for stacking defense on top of the shield.

PRE PSS: If presence still had a direct benefit on shield health then this would be a far better stat for PFF builds than it is now... instead you're just getting defense from Force of Will... and Grandeur will give you Offense from Pre, stack that with Guardicator/Wardicator and you're good to go... of course if you're going PRE PSS you may as well take Compassion for the shield health since you will get a decent amount of defense to keep that massive shield up with still.

EGO PSS: Like PRE you've got Force of Will for defense stacking, but it won't be as beneficial as PRE PSS in the long run since your not getting Offense from any stats but instead only get a small offense increase from Aggression. So Guardicator/Wardicator won't stack quite as high with identical values...

STR PSS: Like EGO you've got Aggression for an offense boost, but you've also got the incredibly powerful Juggernaut spec to get a massive amount of Defense from CON... through in Guardicator/Wardicator and you're golden... Your shield will rarely ever be damaged...

DEX PSS: Brush it Off, Gear Utilization, Evasion, & Quick Reflexes when use together can provide you a reliable amount of survival via high dodge and a decent amount of Defense... stack it with Guardicator/Wardicator and your getting even greater benefit from Gear Utilization on top of your already high dodge/avoid... DEX PSS has the potential to be the best primary stat for PFF but it's not as straightforward as CON stacking STR PSS... You'll need high DEX for a reliable dodge% but you also need your SSSs to be reasonably high as well for Avoidance, which you want as high as possible... Defense will come purely from gear as well which gives you a bit of a hard limit to your defense... luckily that hard limit is high enough that it's reliable, just not as reliable as CON stacked STR PSS... With DEX PSS you will rely on your luck with the RNG more than your defense, but your defense will atleast be high enough that it provides a noticeable benefit when your dodge fails.

END PSS: Yet another larger health buffer... Offense from stats isn't as beneficial as Defense from stats but it is still useful for Guardicator/Wardicator stacking... another Gear Utilization spec as well which helps...

REC PSS: Gear Utilization... beyond that you've got CDR from SSSs which will help with keeping PFF up via ADs... and increased Health from non-super stats... In my personal opinion this is the worst primary stat for PFF...

Guardian/Warden: Pick the one you like most, it really doesn't matter you're only after Fortified Gear & The Best Defense from these... granted Warden also has Elusive but Guardian has Locus... either way you're going to get about the same defensive benefit in the long run...

Vindicator: Pair i with Guardian or Warden and take Aggressive Stance & Modified Gear to boost your defense as high as possible... Offensive Expertise if you want the reduced CD on AOs... though in my opinion your far better off with taking other specs from Vindicator than Offensive Expertise...

Protector: More HP under your PFF yet again, Fortified Gear for more defense, Defensive Expertise for reduced CDs on ADs... pretty straightforward really

Brawler: Is not going to benefit you defensively in any way... if you want to be a PFF tank you're better off skipping this one

Avenger: Same as Brawler... You could pair either one with Vindicator for a little defense stacking from the offense both of these give but it's not worth it for a PFF tank...

Sentinel: Well you've got shield strength and a healing aura... if your running Compassion this will keep your PFF's maximum shield health up constantly but beyond that it doesn't do much for you... except for help secure your hold on AoE threat... but CripC/CS will honestly do a better job at that than Sentinel Aura...

Commander: ... you don't want it... move along

Sentry: Ok this one has some promise to it... resistance from Sentry Aura... Defense from Fortified Gear... more resistance from Crits via Fortify & Reinforce... and Bonus shield strength if you want it... Sentry is actually a pretty good spec tree for PFF in any role...

Arbiter: Shield strength from Enforcer (which unlike the shield strength from sentinel & sentry will actually affect your PFF)... Concussion will reduce enemy damage if you use stuns, this is good for supplementing resistance... Enhanced Gear gives offense which you can then turn into Defense if you pair this with Vindicator.

Overseer: Shield strength from Administer (like Enforcer this one actually affects PFF)... Impact will reduce enemy damage when you crit (this is honestly a bit more reasonable than Concussion... Arbiter is honestly a bit backwards with damage reduction as it's CC debuff and resistance reduction as it's crit debuff)... And Enhanced Gear again...

Overall your best bets for PSS are in order DEX (if you can balance your stats and gear choices properly), STR (and just stack CON), PRE (paired with Compassion), and EGO.

For other specs your best bets in order Vindicator (Aggressive stance is just that good), Guardian or Warden (pair either of these with Vindicator for The Best Defense), Sentry (All around great for PFF), Overseer or Arbiter (damage debuffs are a great way to keep PFF up, and more shield is nice but not necessary)

zhilo1 · April 2016

flowcyto said:
Not that I'm the PFF expert (^ he's already here) but it may help to post ur current build.

PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Name: Red Sentinel

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Ego (Primary)
Level 10: Dexterity (Secondary)
Level 15: Recovery (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Tempest
Level 6: Agile
Level 9: Indomitable
Level 12: Shooter
Level 15: Tireless
Level 18: Wordly
Level 21: Impresario

Powers:
Level 1: Power Bolts
Level 1: Power Gauntlet (Rank 2, Crippling Challenge)
Level 6: Energy Shield (Rank 2, Phalanx Defense System)
Level 8: Personal Force Field (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Plasma Beam (Rank 2, Rank 3, Challenging Strikes)
Level 14: Field Surge (Rank 2)
Level 17: Compassion
Level 20: Thunderclap (Collateral Damage, Challenging Strikes)
Level 23: Vicious Descent (Relentless)
Level 26: Energy Wave (Hardened Particle Matrix, Reverse Polarity)
Level 29: Unbreakable
Level 32: Overdrive
Level 35: Ego Surge
Level 38: Circle of Primal Dominion (Rank 2, Rank 3)

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Energy Slide (Rank 2)
Level 35: Jet Boots

Specializations:
Ego: Mental Endurance (3/3)
Ego: Force of Will (2/2)
Ego: Aggression (2/2)
Ego: Sixth Sense (3/3)
Guardian: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Guardian: Locus (2/2)
Guardian: Retribution (1/2)
Guardian: Tenacious (1/2)
Guardian: The Best Defense (3/3)
Sentry: Fortified Gear (2/3)
Sentry: Sentry Aura (3/3)
Sentry: Fortify (2/2)
Sentry: Persevere (1/2)
Sentry: Reinforce (2/2)
Mastery: Ego Mastery (1/1)

The main combo I go for in groups is to jump into the mob using Viscious descent for a knockdown and fear, stun everyone with a thunderclap, and draw them in with energy wave, then i step back and plasma beam the lot for threat and that should be good enough for the rest of the team to finish. Energy Shield gives me a bit more defense while using plasma beam and Power gauntlet, which I reserve for bosses or situations where i cant keep up with the threat, and I decided to use two active defenses and one active offense. Went off theme with Circle of Primal Dominion because knockbacks where really hurting my threat generation in some bosses and the extra defense doesnt hurt.

Spec wise, I considered the decent amount of defense I was getting from EGO pss along with the energy management and crits from its specs would help me maintain plasma beam as well as keep up the buffs from sentry. one point in Retribution and Persevere to have a 10% chance from each to gain a compassion stack whenever I get hit, which works well for getting 8 stacks on alerts and some bosses without relying on heal powers or sentinel aura.

Originally I had DEX primary, but I couldnt achieve any decent dodge or avoidance numbers without martial arts or similar powers that add dodge bonuses, so the rng was usually against me, and it wasnt working out. With the current build im very tough on alerts, but as I already said, it doesn't hold up to gravitar and the like.

Would PSS STR with CON SSS be worth it for juggernaut + guardicator even if i'm range? additional knock resist from STR wouldnt go amiss, but my threat generation would probably suffer without ego in there.

Thanks for the breakdown Raighn, that's exactly the kind of stuff I am interested in hearing from other players, I apreciate it.

flowcyto · April 2016

STR PSS + Ward_Guardicator is def the best for personal Defense, but only if ya change to stacking Con. It would take a shift in gearing, and energy generation may be more of an issue, and dps would drop a bit:

Super Stats:
Level 6: Strength (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Recovery (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Master
Level 6: Physical Conditioning
Level 9: Quick Recovery
Level 12: Relentless
Level 15: Acrobat
Level 18: Martial Focus
Level 21: Impresario

Specializations:
Strength: Swole (2/3)
Strength: Quick Recovery (1/2)
Strength: Aggression (2/2)
Strength: Brutality (2/2)
Strength: Juggernaut (3/3)
Warden: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
Warden: Tenacious (2/2)
Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Modified Gear (2/2)
Mastery: Strength Mastery (1/1)

Elusive, Tenacious, Locus, or Retribution can all work in Guardian_Warden, though Find the Mark would be the best for dps. Rest of the points in Vind depends on the nature of most of ur attacks (AoE vs. ST, or if ya want faster AO cds). The 3-set Justice gear gives a boost to Offense that can feed the TBD/AS loop, and the 2-set also boosts ur SS's. The one point in Quick Healing is just for Compassion.

If I were to make room for another defensive power, I'd prob axe Vicious Decent and just use a good travel power to get around. Energy Slide is gonna be really annoying to handle indoors, I imagine :x Could move the 2 adv points from that to R3 Field Surge, and maybe replace R1 Unbreakable w/ R1 MD.
I assume that threat/dps isn't the primary issue here, though the build could be tweaked for that too.

cyrone · April 2016

Pump Impact Prisms (highest rank you can get) into your Primary Defense gear. Cost/Cooldown redux into Utility, and Growth into Primary Offense.

Compassion won't be all that useful unless you can receive some kind of incoming healing to trigger it. Rapid Recovery on Rec Primary is good for this because of the damage bleed through on the shield. Or Quick Recovery from another Primary SS.

If I can find the time to, I'll roll your build on the PTS and give it a whirl, making possible tweaks in areas that may need it. Overall, though, it looks fairly good. Just have to remember to do the all important thing that most people forget about in this game: Block!

Blocking will boost your shield regen for as long as you're blocking. I know it's counter productive to maintaining threat, but that's how it is with PFF. Block when you see a boss charging up something huge. Also, which Gravitar are you tanking? Rampage or TA? If it's TA, I got nothing. I can't tank worth a damn in there with all that damage flying everywhere.

zhilo1 · April 2016

I havent even dreamed of tanking in TA, its just the rampage gravitar. As for triggering compassion, I have found that a single point in tenacious will trigger it, however 10% isnt the best chance rate unless you have a lot of enemies hitting you, and even then, tenacious is slow at stacking compassion, it needs to run out before it can be applied again. Still, it is a way to trigger compassion within the Guardicator spec build without using any additional healing powers. I didnt know rapid recovery triggered compassion, that would be a thing to consider.

to Flowcyto: I only put one advantage point in energy slide, not two, so unranking it wont allow me to get r3 field surge. As for Viscious descent, what I like about it is that it helps with damage mitigation by starting with a knockdown, and then applying fear, which is a good way to start an encounter, the knockdown also gives me time to charge energy wave without being interrupted, which in turn sets everyone up for a thunderclap, and then the enemy formation is ripe for aoes. I really like this combo and I am very hesitant to remove anything from it.

Using primary STR with CON secondary is really tempting, but I am already walking a fine line with my threat management, it is not uncommon for a very good dps to steal hate from me in rampages, specially when I am forced to block and my threat per second drops. I suppose i could switch power gauntlet and plasma beam with melee alternatives, but plasma beam is soooo goood, it fills up locus in a single maintain. I am unsure.

At the very least, I want to be confident in my ability to tank the rampages like gravitar and fire & ice. cosmics and event bosses like Clarence are unlikely because I don't think I can compete threat wise with the other high end tanks that will inevitably be present.

Switching my gear around is gonna be bothersome, but not much. I am still in mercenary gear with rank 6 mods, slowly grinding my way to heroics (rng seems to hate me too much for justice) and perhaps drop the Gs on legion gear once i find a setup that works. Probably gonna fill my secondary slots with onslaught secondaries, they look good. I dont remember my choice of mods, but I forgot about impact prisms, It really should have been obvious.

pantagruel01 · April 2016

Your other option is to focus on bubble tanking -- the best way to keep your PFF strong is to not have damage reach it in the first place most of the time (meaning the role of the PFF is to let you survive the huge spikes, not for sustained damage). Mebbe something like:
PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Name: Red Sentinel

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Ego (Primary)
Level 10: Dexterity (Secondary)
Level 15: Recovery (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Tempest
Level 6: Agile
Level 9: Indomitable
Level 12: Shooter
Level 15: Tireless
Level 18: Wordly
Level 21: Impresario

Powers:
Level 1: Power Bolts
Level 1: Power Gauntlet (Crippling Challenge)
Level 6: Energy Shield (Rank 2, Phalanx Defense System)
Level 8: Personal Force Field (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Plasma Beam (Rank 2, Rank 3, Challenging Strikes)
Level 14: Field Surge (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 17: Compassion
Level 20: Thunderclap (Collateral Damage, Challenging Strikes)
Level 23: Protection Field (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 26: Energy Wave (Hardened Particle Matrix, Reverse Polarity)
Level 29: Unbreakable
Level 32: Overdrive
Level 35: Electric Sheath (Matter – Energy Union)
Level 38: Masterful Dodge

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Energy Slide (Rank 2)
Level 35: Jet Boots

Specializations:
Ego: Mental Endurance (3/3)
Ego: Force of Will (2/2)
Ego: Follow Through (3/3)
Ego: Sixth Sense (2/3)
Protector: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Protector: Unrelenting (1/2)
Protector: Bulwark (1/2)
Protector: Exhausting Strikes (2/2)
Protector: Defensive Expertise (3/3)
Sentry: Fortified Gear (2/3)
Sentry: Precise (3/3)
Sentry: Sentry Aura (3/3)
Sentry: Fortify (2/2)
Mastery: Ego Mastery (1/1)

theravenforce · April 2016

EEeh...Bubble use wouldn't be that useful for tanking unless your bubbles are incredibly strong. So for the above build...REC PSS might be better for fuelling Compassion....unless you super stack REC in that above build.

Either way "works" really.

Note that Protection Field and Mindful Reinforcement do not benefit from your resistances OR dodge/avoid mechanics.

(I think the dodge/avoid thing is a bug, since popping MD whilst shielded does provide a benefit for PFF but PF and MR still take raw damage.)

To Tank in TA with PFF: These are just tips I've picked up along the way from having used PFF in TA and tanking Teleios with my PFFer. (I in no way shape or form claim to be a real tank. Tanking a few times in TA with PFF/Regen/LR does not a tank make

, at least IMO)

*As Cyrone mentioned. Listen to Defender's timeless words of wisdom: BLOCK <-- In virtually any build this a key component. A really good tank will know when to use block and still keep up threat. If you want to see a live example, try teaming with Silverspar.

*Be area conscious. Know where to move/position yourself in certain fights to make it easier for everyone else and yourself. (ESPECIALLY GROND)

*Have a good amount of resistance and self defense (as any tank should really) and try not to rely on STR statting for knock resistance, cause Gravitar's knocks...can be brutal.

*Medusa...she's really up to your team to keep her brutality to a minimum (i.e. the psionic bombs). Don't forget to block her PBAoE of pink death.

*Teleios Ascendant (final boss), just block and hit him. Holding threat on him is made a lot easier by Tank Role (since none of my "tanks" have threat advantages) and probably is a LOT easier if you do actually build to be a tank.

theravenforce · April 2016

As for Gearing...

Offensive Growth is great if you're low on stats in the first place, but generally Offense (Impact Prisms) would be wise if you are gaining loops from Defense/Offense and to boost your Primary Defensive's effectiveness with double impacts.

Just a lil something I thought I'd share

flowcyto · April 2016

to Flowcyto: I only put one advantage point in energy slide, not two, so unranking it wont allow me to get r3 field surge. As for Viscious descent, what I like about it is that it helps with damage mitigation by starting with a knockdown, and then applying fear, which is a good way to start an encounter, the knockdown also gives me time to charge energy wave without being interrupted, which in turn sets everyone up for a thunderclap, and then the enemy formation is ripe for aoes. I really like this combo and I am very hesitant to remove anything from it.

Just to pop in a quick clarification: I was referring to Relentless on Decent to give you those 2 adv points. The Fear effect is good, but are you regularly renewing it as part of ur rotation, say, on bosses?
Since you don't really want to change the Decent + EW + TC combo, perhaps a better alternative is to drop Hardened Matrix on EWave. The shielding is rather pithy for 3 adv points: I'm getting a mere 900-point shield on the PTS w/ it at max # targets hit; 300-pt at min. Also, via laser testing, it seems that this shield is depleted before ur Defense and dodge/avoid is factored in (unlike w/ PFF), which kinda sucks.

And yea blocking = good. Blocking for PFF = extra good. That goes a bit beyond building, though, and like Raven outlined ur troubles there will be very context (fight) specific. If ya are struggling w/ a specific boss, it may be less about ur build and more about tactics.

That's all I'll say atm as there's much advice to be had out there about PFF, as you can see.

zhilo1 · April 2016

Ok, here is a different approach, using STR primary with CON and REC secondaries, getting rid of compassion and using enrage instead for added damage/threat and unleashed rage goodness.

PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Name: Red Sentinel

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Strength (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Recovery (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Behemoth
Level 6: Mighty
Level 9: Enduring
Level 12: Tireless
Level 15: Relentless
Level 18: Quick Recovery
Level 21: Physical Conditioning

Powers:
Level 1: Clobber
Level 1: Defensive Combo (Rank 2, Crippling Challenge)
Level 6: Unleashed Rage (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 8: Enrage
Level 11: Thunderclap (Challenging Strikes)
Level 14: Havoc Stomp (Rank 2, Cry Havoc, Challenging Strikes)
Level 17: Personal Force Field (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 20: Field Surge (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 23: Vicious Descent (Relentless)
Level 26: Energy Wave (Reverse Polarity)
Level 29: Masterful Dodge
Level 32: Haymaker (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Aggressor
Level 38: Energy Shield (Laser Knight)

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Energy Slide (Rank 2)
Level 35: Jet Boots

Specializations:
Strength: Physical Peak (3/3)
Strength: Aggression (2/2)
Strength: Juggernaut (3/3)
Strength: Overpower (2/3)
Warden: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Warden: Elusive (2/2)
Warden: Tenacious (2/2)
Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
Vindicator: Modified Gear (2/2)
Mastery: Warden Mastery (1/1)

The idea would be to try to keep STR and CON even and practically ignore REC gear wise. Thankfully Energy Shield can still be used with the Laser Knight adv, and defensive combo will provide three sources of mitigation, from crippling challenge, one stack of defiance (which should be decent will all the con i will be stacking) and the warden mastery. A haymaker after every combo should help with threat, and I get to keep my initiation combo (V.Descent, E. Wave, Thunderclap) Juggernaut plus wardicator provides the most defense i can get from specs, and Havoc Stomp provides a reliable source of fear with Cry Havoc.

Seems much better protected overall, even if i'm not happy i had to give up plasma beam. One concern tho, how does defensive combo measure up threat wise against the kind of dps players will be providing in rampages? I'm wary of it being a low tier power as my main source of single target hate.

Also, maybe having both thundeclap and havoc stomp is redundant? I like the reliable nature of thunderclap's stun, but I need a good source of aoe threat, with defensive combo being too slow and having a small area, and unleashed rage having too long a cooldown. Should I just say "screw it" and take plasma beam anyway? seems like it would be a terrible choice while having laser knight and no ego.

pantagruel01 · April 2016

zhilo1 said:
Seems much better protected overall, even if i'm not happy i had to give up plasma beam. One concern tho, how does defensive combo measure up threat wise against the kind of dps players will be providing in rampages? I'm wary of it being a low tier power as my main source of single target hate.

Because of the details of how F&I works it should be good threat there; it's not as good in other content.

zhilo1 said:
Also, maybe having both thundeclap and havoc stomp is redundant? I like the reliable nature of thunderclap's stun, but I need a good source of aoe threat

Because of the quirks of how challenging strikes works, thunderclap is actually quite good at threat -- when applied to a power with a cooldown, challenging strikes is 2,000 threat over 10 seconds.

cyrone · April 2016

zhilo1 said:

PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Name: Red Sentinel

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Strength (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Recovery (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Behemoth
Level 6: Mighty
Level 9: Enduring
Level 12: Tireless
Level 15: Relentless
Level 18: Quick Recovery
Level 21: Physical Conditioning

Powers:
Level 1: Clobber
Level 1: Defensive Combo (Rank 2, Crippling Challenge)
Level 6: Unleashed Rage (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 8: Enrage
Level 11: Thunderclap (Challenging Strikes)
Level 14: Havoc Stomp (Rank 2, Cry Havoc, Challenging Strikes)
Level 17: Personal Force Field (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 20: Field Surge (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 23: Vicious Descent (Relentless)
Level 26: Energy Wave (Reverse Polarity)
Level 29: Masterful Dodge
Level 32: Haymaker (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Aggressor
Level 38: Energy Shield (Laser Knight)

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Energy Slide (Rank 2)
Level 35: Jet Boots

Specializations:
Strength: Physical Peak (3/3)
Strength: Aggression (2/2)
Strength: Juggernaut (3/3)
Strength: Overpower (2/3)
Warden: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Warden: Elusive (2/2)
Warden: Tenacious (2/2)
Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
Vindicator: Modified Gear (2/2)
Mastery: Warden Mastery (1/1)

I can honestly say that I like the look of this build. It reminds me of when I had my tank built with Might/PFF. Sturdy, for the most part, and good damage mitigation with knocks. Hits pretty hard as well. I had a lot of fun as Might/PFF and I hope you find the same enjoyment that I did.

pantagruel01 · April 2016

If properly geared, that build will be able to tank without a passive at all. As such, it will also be able to tank with PFF. However, PFF will not substantially improve your ability to tank; the main thing PFF provides is some extra spike resistance and a str/con/wardicator doesn't especially need that.

chuckwolf · April 2016

Guess I'll add my $0.02

Personally I don't think for dodge is the way to go, but for defense stat. and mitigation of damage to the PFF shield before it takes damage.

That being said... either Guardicator or Wardicator is a must, as is Inertial Dampening Field.

Y es IDF gives an energy hit but it also cuts down a ton of mob damage and that's what wears down PFF the most,
Also It's a good idea to use the Sheathe advantage on Force shield.

Things like using energy refraction and using protection field and Field surge while your shield is at full strength to prevent damage to it also help. Also remember blocking prevents damage to the PFF as if it were your health.

flowcyto · April 2016

IDF I wouldn't recommend if he's already skirting on threat issues here. It can be nice to optimize mitigation with, but its still a bit of a drop in the bucket vs. big hits.

raighn · April 2016

pantagruel01 said:

zhilo1 said:
Seems much better protected overall, even if i'm not happy i had to give up plasma beam. One concern tho, how does defensive combo measure up threat wise against the kind of dps players will be providing in rampages? I'm wary of it being a low tier power as my main source of single target hate.
Because of the details of how F&I works it should be good threat there; it's not as good in other content.

Defensive Combo w/CripC is actually VERY good at holding threat against single targets... My PFF/Might tank uses it and pulls off nearly everyone while wearing just heirlooms...

monsterdaddy · April 2016

I think you should wait until Kaiserin revises PFF which she will. But if want a viable PFF tank the tankiest build is using INT PSS with Wrist Bolter Automated Advantage focusing on CD reduction. Gear for all INT and cooldown reduction and grab one Necrullitic Elixir (which will be available every ~3 minutes). You basically cycle MD and Field Surge every 2 salvos (and add 2 AO's too). Energy Shield with Phalanx and gear with OV Gloves of the Defender.

Playwise, you don't feel like you are defending your passive -- you fight like normal. Get an extra Hand power to put CC on, get Miniaturization device and CS on Micromunitions and you have a good 59% debuff going. Works well vs. OVs too.

flowcyto · April 2016

monsterdaddy said:
I think you should wait until Kaiserin revises PFF which she will. But if want a viable PFF tank the tankiest build is using INT PSS with Wrist Bolter Automated Advantage focusing on CD reduction. Gear for all INT and cooldown reduction and grab one Necrullitic Elixir (which will be available every ~3 minutes). You basically cycle MD and Field Surge every 2 salvos (and add 2 AO's too). Energy Shield with Phalanx and gear with OV Gloves of the Defender.

Playwise, you don't feel like you are defending your passive -- you fight like normal. Get an extra Hand power to put CC on, get Miniaturization device and CS on Micromunitions and you have a good 59% debuff going. Works well vs. OVs too.

Interesting. I guess ya mean a build like this?:

PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Intelligence (Primary)
Level 10: Recovery (Secondary)
Level 15: Constitution (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Invincible
Level 6: Healthy Mind
Level 9: Quick Recovery
Level 12: Negotiator
Level 15: Boundless Reserves
Level 18: Investigator
Level 21: Amazing Stamina

Powers:
Level 1: Wrist Bolter (Automated Assault)
Level 1: Power Gauntlet (Rank 2, Crippling Challenge)
Level 6: Overdrive
Level 8: Personal Force Field (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Concentration
Level 14: Mini Gun (U-238 Rounds, Challenging Strikes)
Level 17: Field Surge (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 20: Masterful Dodge
Level 23: Reconstruction Circuits (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 26: Plasma Beam (Challenging Strikes)
Level 29: Energy Shield (Rank 2, Phalanx Defense System)
Level 32: Miniaturization Drive (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Circle of Primal Dominion (Rank 2)
Level 38: Ego Surge (Nimble Mind)

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Superspeed (Rank 2)
Level 35: Flight

Specializations:
Intelligence: Enlightened (3/3)
Intelligence: Tactician (2/2)
Intelligence: Revitalize (3/3)
Intelligence: Expertise (2/2)
Protector: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Protector: Bulwark (2/2)
Protector: Exhausting Strikes (2/2)
Protector: Defensive Expertise (3/3)
Warden: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
Warden: Elusive (2/2)
Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
Mastery: Protector Mastery (1/1)

Put Minigun for CS since ya can't use Recon Circuits and Micro Muni at the same time. Sentry w/ Twist Fate would also work instead of Guardian or Warden.
Not the type of build I'd play (a bit too rigid in its choices, and I don't like how AA on Wrist Bolter handles), but I can see how it'd be good for surviving w/ PFF. How would adding a 3rd AD (Unbreakable) work out?

Gearing for PFF

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