Lunges

notyuu · March 2016

Ranking up lunges should increase their ranges, because as it stands there is literally no reason to do so, I'm thinking

r1: 60ft
r2: 80ft
r3: 100ft

sound reasonable?

spinnytop · March 2016

100 FT LUNGE?! Completely unreasonable, you're off your rocker on this one.

Bigger damage increases would be fine.

notyuu · March 2016

spinnytop said:
100 FT LUNGE?! Completely unreasonable.

ok, 200ft lunge at rank 3 sound better?

spinnytop · March 2016

notyuu said:

spinnytop said:
100 FT LUNGE?! Completely unreasonable.
ok, 200ft lunge at rank 3 sound better?

Yes, that is much more reasonable, just as long as Rank 2 actually sends you backwards 50 feet.

jaazaniah1 · March 2016

I'd be more interested in seeing some lunges in other power sets added. E.g. fire, cold, electricity.

roughbearmattach · March 2016

I would like to see lunges get a significant damage boost on ranking them. Instead of the standard, +20% base damage per rank, something like +100% damage. That way, a R3 lunge would actually hit for something noticeable.

spinnytop · March 2016

roughbearmattach said:
I would like to see lunges get a significant damage boost on ranking them. Instead of the standard, +20% base damage per rank, something like +100% damage. That way, a R3 lunge would actually hit for something noticeable.

This is something I can get behind. Why does Medusa get such a killer lunge and we don't? Perhaps even do a Downrange Disaster thing, where the further you lunge, the bigger a damage bonus you get. Maybe even to the point that it starts to be beneficial for melee to do quick hop-aways to get full range lunges during a fight?

sigmaseven0 · March 2016

roughbearmattach said:
I would like to see lunges get a significant damage boost on ranking them. Instead of the standard, +20% base damage per rank, something like +100% damage. That way, a R3 lunge would actually hit for something noticeable.

Signed.
The Gravitic Teleporter lunge device power seems like a good reference point.

Your Gravitic Teleporter deals 3309 Particle Damage to Test Dummy
Crits look like:
Your Gravitic Teleporter deals 7205 Particle Damage to Test Dummy.

@crypticarkayne

vonqball · March 2016

roughbearmattach said:
I would like to see lunges get a significant damage boost on ranking them. Instead of the standard, +20% base damage per rank, something like +100% damage. That way, a R3 lunge would actually hit for something noticeable.

Yep... never understood why the lunges had to do minimal damage. Just seems like a gratuitous slap in the collective face of melee heroes.

rerrot · March 2016

Because the lunges only are for the advantages.... i think.

raighn · March 2016

Increase the range with rank, yes... increase the damage more, no... lunges are not meant to be damage sources... they are for mobility, their small damage is a bonus not a requirement. If cryptic had so inclined they could have had lunges deal no damage at all. A lunge is meant to help you close the gap between enemies and ket into the fray faster, they are supposed to assist melee builds to keep up with ranged builds.

So yes, increase the range with rank, but there is no need to increase their damage. Accept what a lunge is and deal with it. Not every power in the game has to be about raw DPS. Utility powers exist for that very reaason, UTILITY. Lunges are a utility.

squirrelloid · March 2016

if there's going to be a lunge that does tons of damage, it should be a jump that lands on your opponent. Then you can play Super Mario style. And it should do tons of damage.

chaelk · March 2016

100ft lunge.. roflmao

superalfgorn · March 2016

Maybe not 100 feet, but 60-70-80 could be reasonable?

vonqball · March 2016

raighn said:
Increase the range with rank, yes... increase the damage more, no... lunges are not meant to be damage sources... they are for mobility, their small damage is a bonus not a requirement. If cryptic had so inclined they could have had lunges deal no damage at all. A lunge is meant to help you close the gap between enemies and ket into the fray faster, they are supposed to assist melee builds to keep up with ranged builds.

So yes, increase the range with rank, but there is no need to increase their damage. Accept what a lunge is and deal with it. Not every power in the game has to be about raw DPS. Utility powers exist for that very reaason, UTILITY. Lunges are a utility.

Can't see any substantive thought behind this comment. Melee has many disadvantages, having to take lunges just to get into range, that do next to no damage, is just another one on the list. Sure, they are utility powers... but they are utility powers that most characters can just ignore, because they can just stand and pew pew pew away.

morigosa · March 2016

Hm. I suspect the reason lunges have low damage is because they aren't supposed to be used as part of your normal attack sequence. So how about giving lunges bonus damage based on how far away the target is? Then they can be decently powerful as attacks when you use them to close, but not any stronger than they are now if you're already in melee.

notyuu · March 2016

vonqball said:

raighn said:
Increase the range with rank, yes... increase the damage more, no... lunges are not meant to be damage sources... they are for mobility, their small damage is a bonus not a requirement. If cryptic had so inclined they could have had lunges deal no damage at all. A lunge is meant to help you close the gap between enemies and ket into the fray faster, they are supposed to assist melee builds to keep up with ranged builds.

So yes, increase the range with rank, but there is no need to increase their damage. Accept what a lunge is and deal with it. Not every power in the game has to be about raw DPS. Utility powers exist for that very reaason, UTILITY. Lunges are a utility.
Can't see any substantive thought behind this comment. Melee has many disadvantages, having to take lunges just to get into range, that do next to no damage, is just another one on the list. Sure, they are utility powers... but they are utility powers that most characters can just ignore, because they can just stand and pew pew pew away.

which is the entire reason that I'm suggesting increaing the range of a lunge with the rank, make closing the gap vs targets that just pew pew easier...

raighn · March 2016

Another option (and could be done in addition to range increase) would be to reduce the CD of lunges with ranks as well... Further aid with closing the gap vs ranged targets (especially those that run away)

theravenforce · March 2016

raighn said:
Another option (and could be done in addition to range increase) would be to reduce the CD of lunges with ranks as well... Further aid with closing the gap vs ranged targets (especially those that run away)

You know, I actually got so annoyed with the cooldown on lunges, I crafted a build which had at least...four lunges in it, it worked pretty well but obviously having that many lunges is completely silly.

I'd rather if at base all lunges had a fixed 0.5 sec cooldown.

raighn · March 2016

theravenforce said:

raighn said:
Another option (and could be done in addition to range increase) would be to reduce the CD of lunges with ranks as well... Further aid with closing the gap vs ranged targets (especially those that run away)
You know, I actually got so annoyed with the cooldown on lunges, I crafted a build which had at least...four lunges in it, it worked pretty well but obviously having that many lunges is completely silly.

I'd rather if at base all lunges had a fixed 0.5 sec cooldown.

Fixing lunges to a 0.5s CD would be good too... and with any luck will get people to stop complaining about them not dealing enough damage... Lunges are utility, their damage is perfectly fine where it is, they just need shorter CDs, longer ranges, and for the activation times to be standardized.

vonqball · March 2016

Just because something is a utility power doesn't mean it has to hit like a wet noodle... especially if it also has the added disadvantage of a cooldown. Thunderclap, Energy Wave, and Thunderstrike are all examples of utility powers that hit fairly hard.. and they are all aoe vs the single target lunges.. so it makes even less sense.

spinnytop · March 2016

I don't really see why I would need a lunge every half second, seems excessive. On the other hand, having lunges be a good chunk of damage to add to my rotation would be neat. The way I would do it is that Rank 1 damage stays the same as it is now, but Rank 2 and Rank 3 give you huge gains, more than you would normally get - on top of that, all lunges deal more damage the further you are from your target.

theravenforce · March 2016

spinnytop said:
I don't really see why I would need a lunge every half second, seems excessive. On the other hand, having lunges be a good chunk of damage to add to my rotation would be neat. The way I would do it is that Rank 1 damage stays the same as it is now, but Rank 2 and Rank 3 give you huge gains, more than you would normally get - on top of that, all lunges deal more damage the further you are from your target.

For PvE, yes, it would be a tad excessive, but for Pv-er..."Not PvE"

, it would be useful.

Although, there are many situations where enemies can be quite spread out and hacking your way through them with enemies attacking like VIPER Soldiers, in combat speed reductions, snares / movement reducers can make it a lot harder when you're trying to cut down a Brick Buster before he completes his initial attack rotation before firing off an MK II.

^ May have been a bit dramatic, but I've been and seen situations like that. Not fun.

I guess lunges should just generally be more accessible to melee builds. I think they should be a little more dynamic and having lowered cooldowns for lunges would really help.

raighn · March 2016

spinnytop said:
I don't really see why I would need a lunge every half second, seems excessive. On the other hand, having lunges be a good chunk of damage to add to my rotation would be neat. The way I would do it is that Rank 1 damage stays the same as it is now, but Rank 2 and Rank 3 give you huge gains, more than you would normally get - on top of that, all lunges deal more damage the further you are from your target.

if your a melee DPS chasing down a boss that a ranged DPS keeps kiting... then having the abiltiy to lunge every half second would be very benefitial... if someone knocks your lunge target as your lunging causing you to either rubberband back to where you started or get left standing where the enemies were... if you get knocked back right after you lunge... if your lunge target dies mid lunge and everything else is 30-60ft away... theres a myriad of situations that can make being able to lunge every half second very useful...

lunges don't need heavy damage... they are not meant to be damage abilities, they are pure utility. I'm not opposed to the suggestion of having a downrange disaster type damage bonus to them though, where the further you lunge from the more damage you deal...

spinnytop · March 2016

raighn said:

lunges don't need heavy damage... they are not meant to be damage abilities, they are pure utility.

This doesn't have to be the case however.

Lunge duration is already short, and as somebody pointed out you can take multiple lunges if you really need them. Personally I just use my travel power if something's being kited around a bunch ( then again I build in a versatile manner so I always have mobility options on hand for these situations ).

Much more than repeatedly spamming lunge every half second and still not solving the issues you're talking about... I'd much rather that my lunge itself do a good chunk of damage to the target. That way it doesn't matter that I didn't get to them, the damage I wanted to deal was applied just because I activated the lunge.

Just imagine how frustrating it would be if you were spamming lunge every half second and you still didn't manage to do anything meaningful to that target that's getting knocked all over or kited away constantly. Now imagine how satisfying knowing that just using the lunge itself guaranteed some meaningful effect every few seconds, regardless of if you actually got to the target or not.

raighn · March 2016

spinnytop said:
Just imagine how frustrating it would be if you were spamming lunge every half second and you still didn't manage to do anything meaningful to that target that's getting knocked all over or kited away constantly. Now imagine how satisfying knowing that just using the lunge itself guaranteed some meaningful effect every few seconds, regardless of if you actually got to the target or not.

Or they could remove the "if you lunge from 20ft away or more" triggers from lunges and have those effects trigger regardless of distance... That's one of the main reasons why Void Shift is such a good lunge, it's Fear advantage triggers from any distance. Review each lunge and make sure their rider effects are valuable and useful...

vonqball · March 2016

^agree (obviously)

Giving lunges the potential to deal decent damage makes both game balance (ranged>melee), and real-world physics, sense.

I like the downrange disaster idea. Lunges doing decent damage at (and near) max range would make for some fun builds and play-styles. It annoys me how static melee is, when melee in comics is (generally) anything but.

spinnytop · March 2016

vonqball said:
^agree (obviously)

Giving lunges the potential to deal decent damage makes both game balance (ranged>melee), and real-world physics, sense.

I like the downrange disaster idea. Lunges doing decent damage at (and near) max range would make for some fun builds and play-styles. It annoys me how static melee is, when melee in comics is (generally) anything but.

I think you meant to point at my post and agree, cause Raighn is against the idea of making lunges do decent damage >.>

vonqball · March 2016

spinnytop said:

I think you meant to point at my post and agree, cause Raighn is against the idea of making lunges do decent damage >.>

You are correct again Spinny. Raighn snuck a post in there and ninja'd my bump of agreement!

Lunges

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