Fix 2gm's cost.

gradii · February 2016

2 gun mojo currently costs too much on LIVE. Reduce its current cost by about 40% and the changes will be pretty good overall and not game breaking for dual pistols.

cyrone · February 2016

Just going to drop this here, too.

cyrone said:

gradii said:

cyrone said:

gradii said:
2gm cost is still way too high. Aside from that the change isn't too bad but the cost is breaking it.
Two Gun Mojo cost is just fine. Killer Instinct and Concentration, even had a spare advantage point to put into Accelerate Metabolism on Two Gun. I can maintain it just fine 3-4 full maintains before I have to have a "breather".
Compare it with Fire all Weapons which now has the SAME cost and is a 120 foot cone doing the same damage.

Cost is NOT fine.
Don't just take damage into consideration for cost. FAW yes is a cone, but it's pure damage with Challenging Strikes adv.

Two Gun is now a narrow cylinder, Crippling Challenge, Nailed to the Ground, Close the Gap, applies Furious to increase crit chance, and from Furious comes Willpower which is a HoT. The cost is fine for the damage and utility the power provides.

Edit: Also, Two Gun allows for complete mobility (more utility) whereas FAW roots you.

meedacthunist · February 2016

The Assault Rifle may come with lower energy cost, but it hits only one target at time, slows the player when used and has no utilities like critical buff and HoT.

championshewolf · February 2016

Time to learn to manage your energy costs. Then again I've been watching people day in and day out that have no issues, what-so-ever with 2GM's energy cost. So yea. Going to say no to this.

selphea · February 2016

I just find it strange that two handguns have higher penetrating power than a rifle.

pantagruel01 · February 2016

gradii said:
2 gun mojo currently costs too much on LIVE. Reduce its current cost by about 40% and the changes will be pretty good overall and not game breaking for dual pistols.

Its cost is appropriate given the effects it has. Which effects do you think should be removed to justify a lower cost?

chaelk · February 2016

I'm not having any problems with it.
on a NON min/maxed build

spinnytop · February 2016

gradii said:
2 gun mojo currently costs too much on LIVE. Reduce its current cost by about 40% and the changes will be pretty good overall and not game breaking for dual pistols.

I disagree.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTimtDio8_o

magpieuk2014 · February 2016

The usual tough talk abounds here, I see...

Power cost increases are a really blunt instrument and always cause aggro. They're divisive because certain player groups feel picked on, and in the end they increase inconsistency and make the game less balanced. 2GM's power cost is now higher than powers which can do a similar amount of damage to more targets (Gatling Gun), which is silly and unbalanced (but then it is part of a punitive nerf).

Rather than tinkering with power costs on a per-power basis there needs to be a mechanism to increase the cost of powers during the course of a battle (with appropriate mechanisms to lessen it). This is more realistic - you can't fire a machine gun indefinitely in reality, and even Superheroes can become exhausted over time - and would lessen the "hold to win" aspect of powers such as 2GM, Lightning Arc, etc which seems to have wound so many people up.

So here's a suggestion:

Each time the player charges a power over halfway or maintains a power for half its duration they receive a debuff: Fatigue. Each stack of this debuff increases a player's energy costs by 2% (1% + 1%, the second part being reduced by their REC/END stats). Fatigue can stack up to 99 times. Tap powers, Combo powers, or any power without a charge or maintain aspect would not generate Fatigue. Powers with a long charge time (Force Cascade, for example) would naturally not generate as much Fatigue stacks as 2GM, etc.

Stacks of Fatigue are removed by:

Debuff removal powers such as Celestial Cleansing and Medical Nanites
Use of the Energy Builder power (each successful hit with an EB removes a stack of Fatigue)

So... for any stand-and-spam power like 2GM/LA/Gatling Gun, the player would have to manage the effect of Fatigue and look to mitigate it (by hooking up with a healer with CC, having Med Nanites as a power, or having to close the range on their enemy to use EB). Much more elegant than random power nerfs / cost increases and - which I'm always keen on - makes gameplay as much about what the player does in the room as it is about their build.

(If I was feeling adventurous I'd remove the base 10% energy cost increase from toggled Energy Forms such as Concentration and make each stack they build also apply also add a stack of Fatigue... lower cost to begin with, higher as damage increases. )

I may start another thread about this.

championshewolf · February 2016

gradii wrote: »

Really now? I suggest you try leveling with it sometime! 35 energy JUST to start the maintain and then over 25 energy per 0.5 seconds.

Sooner or later people will realize that it's not right to have this power cost this much and it will be fixed.

Seems fine to me. Sooner or later I think you will realize that not only can you mitigate this power by spec, but gear is also considered apart of your build to. There is plenty of ways to mitigate it while leveling. This is just an over reaction, to what is one of the most powerful maintains in the game, with the most utility, and maneuverability.

spinnytop · February 2016

gradii said:

championshewolf said:

Seems fine to me. Sooner or later I think you will realize that not only can you mitigate this power by spec, but gear is also considered apart of your build to. There is plenty of ways to mitigate it while leveling. This is just an over reaction, to what is one of the most powerful maintains in the game, with the most utility, and maneuverability.
You only use one character who is already well geared so I don't blame you for not understanding the issue.

She's right though.

Why are you having trouble with 2GM anyway? Aren't you always using energy-hungry Force Cascade spam builds? How is it you do fine with those but somehow 2GM's new cost has you stumped?

spinnytop · February 2016

magpieuk2014 said:
The usual tough talk abounds here, I see...

Sure, being able to setup your gear to use high-cost powers makes you tough... whatever you say maggie.

cyrone · February 2016

gradii said:

championshewolf said:

Seems fine to me. Sooner or later I think you will realize that not only can you mitigate this power by spec, but gear is also considered apart of your build to. There is plenty of ways to mitigate it while leveling. This is just an over reaction, to what is one of the most powerful maintains in the game, with the most utility, and maneuverability.
You only use one character who is already well geared so I don't blame you for not understanding the issue.

Actually...I've seen Spar use alts before. Nearly gave me a heart attack.

riverocean · February 2016

I would say after lvl 30 or so.. 2gm become less of a problem to use. But right after you get it around lvl 21... especially on an AT like the Specialist.. it's difficult to use. I have a lvl 25 specialist I leveled up with the new power. And it's a bit clunky early on. I actually switched to a more melee centric build just to get over the hump.

Yes.. well geared with helpful secondaries slotted... 2gm is great. Pre-40 with leveling gear (Armadillo etc...), not so much.

selphea · March 2016

Managed to hammer together a ghetto fix for my AoPM MSA healer by doing Frag Grenade - 2GM.

Suboptimal DPS isn't an issue since it's a healer and managed to stay in theme so I'm happy enough.

Still, while i think it's manageable i have to say it's on the high side and forces some heavy duty energy management on the build. I even had to get 15 more Rec from talents just to have 1 more energy from MSA to barely scrape into positive.

Fix 2gm's cost.

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