Imp 'n' Green's 2v2 Tournament

mrhinkypunk · November 2015

Hello all,

So probably a month or two ago Green Mean Slimey and I had an idea for a 2v2 tournament that was ran properly with nice prizes. I want to actually start putting the idea into place, there isn't a date right now and just how much the prizes will be for 1st 2nd 3rd etc isn't known yet or if we will have small participation prizes too seeing as we want to promote a feeling of fun to get some enjoyable 2v2 duels to watch for everyone. We also don't know exactly what we would ban although we have a few ideas.

Here's an example of how the tournament will be done.

I can say that the overall prize pool is probably worth over 2k right now, the location still needs to be decided too although I have a few idea's. The location will need to be enclosed in some way as team duels have no boundary's.

I just wanted to put this out there and see how many teams of two we could actually get interested. I will probably post in the general discussion area when I get all the details sorted which could hopefully get a few more teams interested. 2v2 promotes a lot more variation in builds in comparison to normal duels so don't think because you may not PvP much with a build you will necessarily do worse than a typical 1v1 PvP build.

Thanks,
IMP

Note: One additional prize I was thinking could be cool is if the final 2 teams of 2 were commissioned for a painting showing a comic book style still of their fight, what would you guys think of something like that?

xrazamax · November 2015

Sounds awesome.

spinnytop · November 2015

Translation: Imp and Green want to hold a tournament and then win it. GG.

mrhinkypunk · November 2015

spinnytop said:
Translation: Imp and Green want to hold a tournament and then win it. GG.

We were trying to guess which one of your personality's you would use for your comment.

We just want some fun competition and to get something going that isn't just going to be a bunch of dumb squabbling about who can crash the servers for 4 hours straight and get away with it the best. I hate normal duels, BASH is boring as you probably well know yourself and zombie apoc doesn't really have much to it with how builds work now. We just want to have fun and get something going for once.

Green said yesterday that he'd be wanting to give the prizes away no matter what seeing as we don't really have any use for all the stuff/G ourselves.

If we're getting something happening we want to be a part of the fun and involved that's all...

spinnytop · November 2015

mrhinkypunk said:

spinnytop said:
Translation: Imp and Green want to hold a tournament and then win it. GG.
We were trying to guess which one of your personality's you would use for your comment.

We just want some fun competition and to get something going that isn't just going to be a bunch of dumb squabbling about who can crash the servers for 4 hours straight and get away with it the best. I hate normal duels, BASH is boring as you probably well know yourself and zombie apoc doesn't really have much to it with how builds work now. We just want to have fun and get something going for once.

Green said yesterday that he'd be wanting to give the prizes away no matter what seeing as we don't really have any use for all the stuff/G ourselves.

If we're getting something happening we want to be a part of the fun and involved that's all...

In the name of fun and competition, I challenge you to split up your team and each team up with somebody who you can as objectively as possible say is not good at pvp.

Also, stop being so butt hurt that we had an argument

mrhinkypunk · November 2015

spinnytop said:

In the name of fun and competition, I challenge you to split up your team and each team up with somebody who you can as objectively as possible say is not good at pvp.

Also, stop being so butt hurt that we had an argument

The fun of the competition for me is to play with green in this case as I can in PvP in other games, I love the idea of teamwork and finding synergy; being put with randoms takes away from that. Although I find the idea of a bunch of PvP vet's introducing newer players by teaming up with them a good one for this kind of tourny specifically with big prizes and stuff I don't find it adequate...

I didn't mention that argument a few weeks ago at all and honestly don't care, people are always going to disagree on some things. I was merely telling you the reasons why we would like to be part of it too. If people deem it better then we could possibly only verse the winner of the tournament out of curiosity of if we'd actually be beaten or not.

What you said is a good idea to do but not for what we'd want for this specifically. It could be cool to do something like you mentioned at some point though with the new FF's starting up.

nbkxs · November 2015

If I can find Healix; and we go together, I'll join!

spinnytop · November 2015

mrhinkypunk said:

The fun of the competition for me is to play with green in this case as I can in PvP in other games, I love the idea of teamwork and finding synergy; being put with randoms takes away from that.

Are you going to give yourselves the first place prize? All of my personalities would love to know

amy · November 2015

spinnytop said:

Are you going to give yourselves the first place prize? All of my personalities would love to know

no

spinnytop · November 2015

omnesvanitas said:

spinnytop said:

Are you going to give yourselves the first place prize? All of my personalities would love to know
no

So then you're just there to show off how pro you are and the actual winner of the tournament is the 2nd place winner, and one of their "prizes" is getting to face off against the amazing pvp celebrities Imp and... other guy whos name I forgot... Snake? Eh one of them. Cool ^_^

mrhinkypunk · November 2015

spinnytop said:

So then you're just there to show off how pro you are and the actual winner of the tournament is the 2nd place winner, and one of their "prizes" is getting to face off against the amazing pvp celebrities Imp and... other guy whos name I forgot... Snake? Eh one of them. Cool ^_^

What are you even on about... Didn't you read everything I've said before, clearly not as you would have read that we would not be giving the prize to ourselves. I don't care for showing off but I do care for having fun playing the game, it's perfectly possible that another two could come up with a another cool duo build that could beat us, it's not like it's a set in stone thing. We just want to have the thrill of the fight that you simply can never get in CO unless you somehow put together some good team fights. I don't even see why you are going out of your way to attack the idea of us actually trying to get something started for once in the community... ^->

amy · November 2015

spinnytop said:

Cool ^_^

kamokami · December 2015

I think you'll see more of a response and draw more people in if you specify what the tourney is and talk more about what would make it interesting.

The only specific mentioned is that you want to see if people can beat you and Green...so that's what gets zeroed in on. If you intend that part of it to be more of a sidenote then talk in more detail about the tourney itself.

Setting: what are the possible locations?

Mechanics Theme: (tanks only, squishies only, healer + squishy teams, etc....what's going to make this uniquely different from the normal duels that already take place?)

Prizes: "probably worth over 2k" is super vague....what are the items? Is it just 2k global?

Lastly, it sounds like you're saying that Bash and regular duels are not fun enough so talk more about how the above details will lead to the event being more fun. Think about what would make participation enticing and focus the deets on that.

mrhinkypunk · December 2015

kamokami said:

Yep, totally... It wasn't as such something putting out the solid idea just yet which is why it's all so vague. Mechanics theme is just 2v2, what makes 2v2's different than 1v1's? I would say it takes a certain amount of teamwork as well as the typical best 1v1 builds aren't usually all that great at working with someone else. It's something that people don't do that often.

Locations, I have a few ideas but the one I'm thinking of I can't remember the name off the top of my head. It'd be an enclosed space though as I said in the OP. When I actually set up the actual forum post detailing what will happen with the tournament I'd confirm the actual name of the place I'm thinking of.

The "over 2k" is super vague for sure, basically green and I have a bunch of zen and G that we don't use so it doesn't specifically have to be G. We also have few items in mind that could have worked as a prize too but just like with the location we'd have to actually gather together what we actually have for it...

I understand what you mean by getting the idea across more, I just wanted to put out that we've had the idea to do this for a while and wanted to know of anyone that may be up for it. I'm for sure interested to see if anyone an beat me and green but obviously it isn't the main focus which is to win yourself. I was thinking that we could have just done a "challenge us" type thing or have it where we don't participate but play against the 1st place team where if they win they get a bonus or something... But it's not like we'd be that much stronger than what I'm sure plenty of other PvP vet's would be able to put together which is why I was thinking we should just participate in the tourney along with everyone else.

kamokami · December 2015

mrhinkypunk said:

Mechanics theme is just 2v2, what makes 2v2's different than 1v1's? I would say it takes a certain amount of teamwork as well as the typical best 1v1 builds aren't usually all that great at working with someone else.

2v2 on its own is not obviously better and on the surface does not *seem* different enough because.....

mrhinkypunk said:

It's something that people don't do that often.

So ELI5. Since you believe that it'd be more fun...what are some tangible examples of builds and playstyles that could be viable, which are not in your run of the mill 1v1s. Maybe mention something about sharing damage types or the heightened impact of debuffs on the potential outcome. Team auras, etc.....but talk about the *how* to get people thinking.

Basically since you're trying to get people to do something new, examples will be crucial...as opposed to just "it's 2v2 instead of 1v1 so duh it's better".

mrhinkypunk said:
I was thinking that we could have just done a "challenge us" type thing

It's great that you're not because no one cares about that as much as you would.

If you're looking to see whether people are interested or not, my own answer is: "it depends on the details".

wendigo555 · December 2015

Very Nice Idea Guys!

wendigo555 · December 2015

+

amy · December 2015

kamokami said:

mrhinkypunk said:

Mechanics theme is just 2v2, what makes 2v2's different than 1v1's? I would say it takes a certain amount of teamwork as well as the typical best 1v1 builds aren't usually all that great at working with someone else.
2v2 on its own is not obviously better and on the surface does not *seem* different enough because.....
mrhinkypunk said:

It's something that people don't do that often.
So ELI5. Since you believe that it'd be more fun...what are some tangible examples of builds and playstyles that could be viable, which are not in your run of the mill 1v1s. Maybe mention something about sharing damage types or the heightened impact of debuffs on the potential outcome. Team auras, etc.....but talk about the *how* to get people thinking.

Basically since you're trying to get people to do something new, examples will be crucial...as opposed to just "it's 2v2 instead of 1v1 so duh it's better".
mrhinkypunk said:
I was thinking that we could have just done a "challenge us" type thing
It's great that you're not because no one cares about that as much as you would.

If you're looking to see whether people are interested or not, my own answer is: "it depends on the details".

hi mrhinkypunk has a wording problem he is from korea, i will ELI5, 2v2 requires teamwork in that you can't just use a UR SR AoPM build with your buddy who has ER SR AoPM, there's more depth because of combinations like stacking debuffs/aura or having a healer. an example is that me and imp both have bubbles and are focused around CC and taking advantage of that with double eldritch blast adv and debuffs. voice chat can actually be applicable here which is something I've wanted to make use of in CO for PvP, imagine the burst possibilities.

and for your previous post, prize will be atleast 2000 in globals and possibly some valuable items if me and imp have any.
like I mentioned a healer will be allowed but we're thinking of banning certain things such as double smoke grenade+shadow form, and in a team duel teleport is a bit too strong. givefeedbackplease

spinnytop · December 2015

kamokami said:

The only specific mentioned is that you want to see if people can beat you and Green...so that's what gets zeroed in on.

^ that right there. Oh I'm sowwy, did I scratch some egos?

You shouldn't have mentioned yourselves as being special in the tournament if you didn't want to get called out on it. You should have just said " We will also be participating". When you threw in "We have an amazing setup and we want to see if anyone can possibly beat it" that's what made me in particular feel compelled to make fun you

mrhinkypunk · December 2015

spinnytop said:

kamokami said:

The only specific mentioned is that you want to see if people can beat you and Green...so that's what gets zeroed in on.
^ that right there. Oh I'm sowwy, did I scratch some egos?

You shouldn't have mentioned yourselves as being special in the tournament if you didn't want to get called out on it. You should have just said " We will also be participating". When you threw in "We have an amazing setup and we want to see if anyone can possibly beat it" that's what made me in particular feel compelled to make fun you

이 성격 은 무엇인가?

내 자존심 이 상처 는 ...

Edit: But anyway, it's not what I meant but ended up coming out that way I suppose. I was asking for opinions on if it seems fair for us to compete if we have a build that is pretty much made for 2v2, it ended up coming out stupidly egotistical.

kamokami · December 2015

omnesvanitas said:

we're thinking of banning certain things such as double smoke grenade+shadow form, and in a team duel teleport is a bit too strong. givefeedbackplease

I would suggest banning smoke nades in general as those have the potential to make the fight be more like a 1v1. Teleport and related stealth TPs would make it lame yeah. I'd also suggest either banning all devices or a few in particular....Eruption comes to mind. But basically if devices are allowed at all then there are quite a few less commonly used ones that you might suddenly see in the tourney which would make the fights less interesting.

The setting is important as it can mean the difference between melee being viable vs not.

mrhinkypunk said:
I was asking for opinions on if it seems fair for us to compete if we have a build that is pretty much made for 2v2

It's fine as long as you're not also a judge. Will there be judges? Or is this just going to be to the death and ties are allowed?

For the prizes, I think focusing most of the prize pool on rewarding participation would be really cool and there could be an item for the winner of the tourney or something that's kind of additional but not cray.

spinnytop · December 2015

mrhinkypunk said:

Edit: But anyway, it's not what I meant but ended up coming out that way I suppose. I was asking for opinions on if it seems fair for us to compete if we have a build that is pretty much made for 2v2, it ended up coming out stupidly egotistical.

This is true. And I'm not going to bother to translate your moon speak

zemmax · December 2015

3vs3 maybe yes. 2vs2 is hardly a team duel. I can't think of any new ebin tactics for 2vs2, but obviously you guys have. I would rather fight two NWs BABBYNADES than two guys with stun eldritch blasters. Still cheesy AF no matter how new, original and exciting the builds are.

(Y)

(Y)

No point for me to retcon my characters just because of 2vs2. Actual team duels might bring healers, PVE aoe powerhouse-bilders into the play aswell, dats more variety.

mrhinkypunk · December 2015

zemmax said:
3vs3 maybe yes. 2vs2 is hardly a team duel. I can't think of any new ebin tactics for 2vs2, but obviously you guys have. I would rather fight two NWs BABBYNADES than two guys with stun eldritch blasters. Still cheesy AF no matter how new, original and exciting the builds are. (Y) (Y) (Y)

No point for me to retcon my characters just because of 2vs2. Actual team duels might bring healers, PVE aoe powerhouse-bilders into the play aswell, dats more variety.

We aren't both stun based, he's just put eldritch onto his build to work off my long stun. The build could be considered cheesey for sure but the way it's settup has everyone that you'd get in a 3 man team really... Adding a 3rd person would just mean another non stun based eldritch blaster seeing as you only need 1 person to do the stuns, it could be better for that person to just be super tanky and not die so that there isn't any strain on the incoming damage that has to be healed... If anything with the build we have settup personally any more players you'd add to the team build would just end up being cloned / stacked eldritch builds where only one or two really need the CC, one can heal etc...

Adding more to an actual team settup would just mean it's more about the burst and resistance debuff stacking, bursting a specific player. With enough firepower you can burst through AD's fairly easy... If there was enough competition in CO for 5v5 teams to be around you'd see all 5 of them burst 1 guy at once killing him instantly so to gain the advantage to outnumber the other team.

Some people not to name anything consider healers the worst / most annoying / cheesiest thing in the game in terms of PvP. With a game like CO you can find yourself calling anything that does well cheese. A PvE aoe build wouldn't have much application in a team fight though, as I mentioned earlier team fights end up being about quickly bursting down the enemy small aoe damage isn't going to do much when the other team can just out heal it. Basically what I'd say is team fights in CO are purely based on the healer, the CC and the burst. The healer allows squishier builds to have sustain and with stacking debuffs + synchronized bursting you will find that even just 2v2 has a lot of chances for more variation, 3v3 wouldn't add much more than what 2v2 can already add.

spinnytop · December 2015

mrhinkypunk said:

We aren't both stun based, he's just put eldritch onto his build to work off my long stun. The build could be considered cheesey for sure but the way it's settup has everyone that you'd get in a 3 man team really... Adding a 3rd person would just mean another non stun based eldritch blaster seeing as you only need 1 person to do the stuns, it could be better for that person to just be super tanky and not die so that there isn't any strain on the incoming damage that has to be healed... If anything with the build we have settup personally any more players you'd add to the team build would just end up being cloned / stacked eldritch builds where only one or two really need the CC, one can heal etc...

Some people are just really good at accidentally saying why PvP in this game was an absolute failure.

zamuelpwe · January 2016

Randomly stuck my head in and I have various suggestions for how to run this. This is more organizational thoughts since I think I've only ever been in one duel here but I've helped run brackets for a few local fighting game tournaments and briefly participated in some PVP event in CoH.

First, I'd argue for setting a few definitive things like exact dates and exact prize amounts. It'll allow people to plan for a day and gauge investment. It's up to you on if you want to have a payout for all of the top four or just first and second place. I'd also suggest a nominal participation prize given to a random team during the tournament to increase interest. People should feel like they have a chance for something, even if it's not the grand prize. For times, I'd suggest setting a date in early February for the tournament itself with a date mid/late January for meetup/practice. Single elimination for the tournament as a whole but best two out of three for the actual matches. I don't know if the system itself already has things in place but if not, I guess disconnects should count as a KO for that player but not a full DQ if the teammate is still standing.

It was mentioned that team duels don't have a range limiter and people were wondering where would a good place to hold this be. I suggest the Powerhouse Arena. It seems built for this kind of thing and is a contained enough space to prevent interference. A rez spot is right there too. What I found interesting is that there's five rooms per Arena but each Powerhouse has a different set. For this, I suggest using the Desert's Powerhouse. If I remember correctly, it lacks the Andrithal and Lemuria rooms (which I find pretty interesting but wouldn't suggest this for the first time since it's death lava and water physics respectively) and weirdly seems to be the only Arena with the Vibora Bay room. Five rooms also means some teams can go at the same time and room choice can be randomized.

shiningdarkness · January 2016

zamuelpwe said:
Randomly stuck my head in and I have various suggestions for how to run this. This is more organizational thoughts since I think I've only ever been in one duel here but I've helped run brackets for a few local fighting game tournaments and briefly participated in some PVP event in CoH.

First, I'd argue for setting a few definitive things like exact dates and exact prize amounts. It'll allow people to plan for a day and gauge investment. It's up to you on if you want to have a payout for all of the top four or just first and second place. I'd also suggest a nominal participation prize given to a random team during the tournament to increase interest. People should feel like they have a chance for something, even if it's not the grand prize. For times, I'd suggest setting a date in early February for the tournament itself with a date mid/late January for meetup/practice. Single elimination for the tournament as a whole but best two out of three for the actual matches. I don't know if the system itself already has things in place but if not, I guess disconnects should count as a KO for that player but not a full DQ if the teammate is still standing.

It was mentioned that team duels don't have a range limiter and people were wondering where would a good place to hold this be. I suggest the Powerhouse Arena. It seems built for this kind of thing and is a contained enough space to prevent interference. A rez spot is right there too. What I found interesting is that there's five rooms per Arena but each Powerhouse has a different set. For this, I suggest using the Desert's Powerhouse. If I remember correctly, it lacks the Andrithal and Lemuria rooms (which I find pretty interesting but wouldn't suggest this for the first time since it's death lava and water physics respectively) and weirdly seems to be the only Arena with the Vibora Bay room. Five rooms also means some teams can go at the same time and room choice can be randomized.

Organizers were too lazy (or may be incompetent enough) to create a proper tourney, so they simply decided to not run it anymore, meaning there's no point in bumping a dead thread.

theravenforce · January 2016

If you need someone who is godawful at PvP, just PM me

zamuelpwe · January 2016

shiningdarkness#2717 said:
Organizers were too lazy (or may be incompetent enough) to create a proper tourney, so they simply decided to not run it anymore, meaning there's no point in bumping a dead thread.

I didn't know how dead this was or wasn't since a month isn't that long. Oddly enough, I almost feel like running this myself but I lack experience in this game's PvP and my internet can be problematic at times.

mrhinkypunk · January 2016

zamuelpwe said:

shiningdarkness#2717 said:
Organizers were too lazy (or may be incompetent enough) to create a proper tourney, so they simply decided to not run it anymore, meaning there's no point in bumping a dead thread.
I didn't know how dead this was or wasn't since a month isn't that long. Oddly enough, I almost feel like running this myself but I lack experience in this game's PvP and my internet can be problematic at times.

I'm busy with personal stuff right now, Kien (shiningdarkness) is just trolling me because reasons. At the time we felt that there wasn't enough interest in it however it seems to be the case that there could be more interest in it now. The tourney never had the details put up because this thread was originally just my putting out that we have the idea to run it. I have idea's of some probably better areas for a 2v2 than the powerhouse arena which is pretty naff really gameplay wise, there are a few other small closed in areas that could maybe work better. As stated this was me just putting out the idea before we had details together so that's the reason there ended up not being actual dates and stuff at the time. I still would like to do this at some point but real life comes first for me right now I'm afraid.

zamuelpwe · January 2016

Understood, real life comes first.

Out of curiosity, just what are the problems with the Powerhouse Arenas? There's a lot of game info that's not common knowledge or posted well.

mrhinkypunk · January 2016

zamuelpwe said:
Understood, real life comes first.

Out of curiosity, just what are the problems with the Powerhouse Arenas? There's a lot of game info that's not common knowledge or posted well.

You can cheat by going in and out of arena's which is just trolly, although it's kind of obvious so wouldn't be too much of a problem I suppose.

More so however if you mean in the open space in the middle of the arena's the layout isn't really great for PvP as well as being able to get up into the rafters which you cannot get up to with just acrobatics or superspeed. If you mean using one of the actual arena's I don't really think they are big enough and each of them hold their own problems environment wise, it could work but it's not optimal and you can't click on people while not inside the arena's making it hard to see if anyone is cheating but also making the viewing experience worse for all those interested on who may win.

Thing is with CO PvP when it comes to dueling environment you have to take into account the various travel powers. I would personally like to disallow teleport however I for example use super jump which means any area with a too low ceiling is just not viable for me and likewise any area where there are places which I can jump up to which someone with superspeed or acrobatics cannot would be bad gameplay wise. Superjump is generally faster than acrobatics and allows me to jump over buildings making it also faster than super speed for getting about in BASH or something similar by the way if you are wondering why I use it.

Unknown · September 2016

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Imp 'n' Green's 2v2 Tournament

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