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getting fed up with dcuo so how is champions online?

dcuo has become so cash grabby & unbalanced it puts a bad taste in my mouth so now i am searching for a good alternative and this game looks promising. i don't mind throwing money at a game and currently sub to dcuo but now i think i want to unsub to dcuo and sub to a new game so i want to know if this game is worth subbing to?
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  • roughbearmattachroughbearmattach Posts: 4,784 Arc User
    edited October 2015
    Champions has a different art style--it is intentionally like an old-school comic.

    That being said, character customization here, even for a brand new, free player, is amazing in comparison.

    As a free player, you will have to pick an Archetype, essentially a class, that determines your powers.
    If you are a subscriber, you can mix and match powers any ol'way you wish.

    Character costumes and appearance are amazingly customizable. You can easily put together a classic, tights-wearing superhero, an over-sized power armor battler, or an undead-cyborg-wolf-dragon-harajuku girl. Sky's the limit.

    Subscribers start with 8 character slots, and get a new one each time one reaches max level.

    I would caution new players to take it easy on doing fast "missions" called Alerts, since you can level up to max pretty quickly that way. It's definitely worth playing full mission chains and story arcs. This is especially true since there is not much to do at max level (40).
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  • flyingfinnflyingfinn Posts: 8,399 Arc User
    Yes. It's worth to sub.​​
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  • draogndraogn Posts: 1,269 Arc User
    I don't know if I would consider CO better in terms of the number of cash grabs and there is still a lot of out of balanced powers in the game, though they are making strides to fix that. Though the customization is definitely a plus and well worth a subscription.
  • jonsillsjonsills Posts: 6,314 Arc User
    One word of caution:

    A while back, they instituted what they call the "streamlined Character Creator". It hides about half the free costume choices from you until your first character hits 10th level, along with the fact that there are other costume packs you can buy. Now, it doesn't take long to hit 10, but you don't get a notification that your costume choices have just drastically expanded.

    On the plus side, changing your outfit is pretty doggone cheap, and paid for entirely by in-game currency rather than real money, so it's not that big a deal - just make sure to visit a Tailor right after your first toon gets to tenth level (most probably immediately after you deal with Kevin Poe). And thankfully you never have to deal with that nonsense again.
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  • stergasterga Posts: 2,353 Arc User
    edited October 2015
    My general opinion is sub for a month or two if you want, but going LTS or staying silver are both much better options. If you really like the game, don't sub, buy a Lifetime Sub. It's basically the difference between renting every month and owning for the life of the game.

    Power / player balance in CO isn't great. Devs have been sssssllllllllooooooowwwwlllllllyyyyyy making balance changes though. There are absolutely things that are BiS for most builds by a good margin. That's not to say other options aren't good, they just aren't the clear winner in the OP stuff contest. The OnAlert update to CO makes all character incredibly powerful, even the Archetypes. I want to say most missions are fairly easy, but I've been playing CO for most of it's 6 years, so that might not even be remotely the experience for someone new to the game.

    The biggest balance issue is that a freeform character is capable of being an insanely powerful master of all trades kind of thing. The pre-made archetypes cannot match that. However, I'm not sure of how many people actually have the super beefy-mcbeefcake toons. Outside of soloing lairs, I've done close to everything with various ATs. The difference is, I need to be picky with what AT I use in certain content like Rampages or big open world fights.

    If you go into an alert at level 10, it's probably going to be a bad experience. Depends on if you have a higher level toon to carry you through or not. If the alert goes down hill because people are leaving, you can leave as well. There minimap has a link to the Crime Computer. There is an option in there to leave the instance. Use it if too many people bail. Sometimes people leave because they crash, but if there is a party wipe on the first mob, someone might leave. Alerts can be completed with less than 5 people, it just depends on who is left. I finished one with my Soldier and one other dude with me tanking. But I was level 40, so it was doable with my squishy-squish.

    Pretty sure they removed the streamlined character crapator a while ago.

    Things about DCUO that bugged me: Costume unlocks are per character. In CO, it's per account. There are few bits that are per character. In fact, I can only think of one off-hand. This is great for making alts or if you have a crippling re-roll problem like I tend to have.

    Haven't played DCUO for a long time, so not sure what is so grubby about their shop. Cryptic mostly has fluff or stupid things not worth buying in their cash shop. There are also lockboxes that contain fluff. Vehicles are fluff. They can be a nice compliment to your toon for some content, but are mostly used as travel powers.

    You can buy everything from the lockbox on the Auction House for in-game currency except the 2-3 drifter trash you get for opening the box. If you don't like the gamble, you have that option instead. Everything in the drifter trash store outside of the two auras that are BoP can also be bought on the AH. If you miss a lockbox that had something you wanted from it, there are Timewarp weeks once a quarter or so where all the lockboxes drop again and you have another shot at buying from the AH. Or you can just ask if someone has some boxes. Or find them on the AH.

    Sadly, you can't run on buildings like you can with DCUO. That's probably the only thing from that game I would love here in CO.

    That escrow garbage from DCUO is not in CO. If you are a silver player, you cannot have more than 500g on a character without purchasing the G cap lift item in the cash shop. (You can store as much g as you want in a shared hideout, however.) Everyone else has a 250,000g cap or some other crazy thing.

    CO uses a traditional hotbar for powers instead of remember controller button mashing combos. You can only have 14 powers total so you won't need to spend tons of time figuring out rotations for your 50,000 powers. This is mostly just a play style difference. I always forget the key combos for DCUO, so I prefer CO's combat.
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  • kamokamikamokami Posts: 1,633 Arc User
    CO is great!! I tried DCUO for a bit and could not stand it.
  • tigerofcachticetigerofcachtice Posts: 551 Arc User
    edited October 2015
    Hi, I bounce between CO and DCUO. To help OP's specific question, I'll start with DCUO's subscription benefits and map how they translate here. It may be interesting to CO players, too, as a reference.

    DCUO: Access to all DLC Packs
    CO: all expansions, like Adventure Packs, Comic Issues, etc., are open to all players, Subscribers or Free-to-Play, at almost all levels (even when there are, they're really low). There's none of this "oh, sorry, I'm missing the DLC or my Combat Rating isn't high enough" that holds up your queue

    DCUO: 150 Free Replay Badges Monthly (in DCUO, you have to pay to grind more)
    CO: don't have them as you don't need them

    DCUO: Unlimited Prometheum Lockbox Unlocks
    CO: you have a Stipend to buy unlocks or other cash shop items instead, but CO lockboxes include not only auras and costume pieces, but powers, vehicles (like planes and trains and not automobiles because reasons but tanks), and the equivalent of T1 to T4 gear

    DCUO: Unlimited in-game currency
    CO: Same, but even Free-to-Play players have a much higher cap than in DCUO

    DCUO: More Inventory Slots
    CO: Same, about 5 times more

    DCUO: Free daily Vault Access
    CO: There's no Vault equivalent, enemies everywhere just drop money and unlocks anyway

    DCUO: Form a League
    CO: Free-to-Play players can also form Leagues called SGs

    DCUO: 14 Additional character slots
    CO: I think you get 8, then every character that gets to level 40, you get another free slot

    DCUO: 20 Broker slots
    CO: I remember Free-to-Play had a cap of 10, but I think Subscribers are Unlimited here

    DCUO: 36 Additional Bank slots
    CO: I don't remember but it's a whole lot more than that in CO

    DCUO: Trade items and cash
    CO: omg I just remembered this was a limitation in DCUO, it doesn't even exist in CO


    -----


    The biggest difference and the value of the subscription of CO, just IMHO, is on your character development. This is perhaps what makes it so difficult to compare CO and DCUO IMHO. It's character vs. "game content".

    Demonocus, I think I know what you mean by unbalancing. I have 2 Hard Light characters and a Nature character that are unplayable now. My others...the Weapon Mastery and Advanced "Awesome" Mechanics have made them so cookie-cutter I don't even feel like it's my character anymore.

    Demonocus, imagine instead that you could "Design Your Own Powerset", like you could combine your own Powers into your own custom set. The closest equivalent is if all your characters had all the Power Trees for you to pick and choose, and many of them interact together. Like, say, DCUO's Gadgets interacting with DCUO's Munitions for extra damage or effects together (which they actually do in CO's Gadgetry and Munitions powersets), or like how the Crushing Debuffs from DCUO's Earth can affect DCUO Weapon Skill Brawling (which...again in CO, they actually do). So when things do get nerfed, it can't affect a character totally, only certain Powers.

    To my COmrades, including those that have played DCUO, here's just a FYI on the situation. DCUO kept on introducing these mechanics that, instead of broadening your playstyle with new options, limited them with clear cookie cutter builds. It was already very limiting before where each of your characters can only focus on 1 Powerset, like Ice, but then only certain Ice powers are worth having, and you have to use them in a specific rotation. Even the very varied & versatile Weapon Skills System, which gives you all sorts of options to Stun, Knockdown, etc., depending on your combos, has been reduced to a single (or for the really exciting ones, 2) "Weapon Mastery" attacks.

    Then, COmrades, when a Powerset gets nerfed, the general advice is to stop playing that character until it gets buffed again in a few months' time...or buy a Retrain Token. That's the actually recommended solution. This is just a FYI because the unbalancing Demonocus mentioned is so much more severe in DCUO than in CO...and it happens regularly.


    -----


    And this is just another FYI because it made me lol so bad. Here's the cash-grabbing in DCUO:



    The Mantle of the Bat. It costs USD$20.00. Twenty American dollars. 1 and only 1 costume piece.

    The best part was they point out it's unlockable for Male AND Female characters! OoOoOoOoOh!


    -----


    INB4 I've been comparing apples to oranges. I know, just trying to reach out to a DCUO player out of sympathy.

    Also...come on, apples and oranges are both fruits. Ah, but I know this post will prolly spawn lots of arguments now.
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  • avianosavianos Posts: 5,698 Arc User
    edited October 2015

    The Mantle of the Bat. It costs USD$20.00. Twenty American dollars. 1 and only 1 costume piece.

    The best part was they point out it's unlockable for Male AND Female characters! OoOoOoOoOh!

    Let me guess, it's ALSO character bound unlock and not Account wide​​
    POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point
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  • stergasterga Posts: 2,353 Arc User
    Wow. Sounds like DCUO got hosed by Not!Sony since I last played.
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  • rianfrostrianfrost Posts: 578 Arc User
    edited October 2015
    demonocus said:

    dcuo has become so cash grabby & unbalanced it puts a bad taste in my mouth so now i am searching for a good alternative and this game looks promising. i don't mind throwing money at a game and currently sub to dcuo but now i think i want to unsub to dcuo and sub to a new game so i want to know if this game is worth subbing to?

    i generally prefer co to dcou. customization is off the charts here compared to there. dcou has a limited amount of starting costumes, including that asinine idea of locking tails to your body type(something they changed after beta) so the first positive thing you will see is the superior customization, you can make a far wider variety of character concepts here because of a drastically superior customization system. though check out johns comment, as i had forgotten but they have the weird thing that you have to play a little while before getting the full customization roster. really you can hit 10 in a little over an hour at regular play speed so don't sweat that at all.

    in a related not if you are subscribed you will find the flexibility of the power selection in freeform to be superior as well. again, if you have a lot of unique/wacky ideas for powers this game really will do that well in freeform.


    the obvious issues is that co gets dramatically less new content than dcou, but the good news is for a new player, that is less of an issue because the game has a good amount to do at first, so it will be felt less keenly for you than for a veteran player.

  • jonsillsjonsills Posts: 6,314 Arc User

    DCUO: 14 Additional character slots
    CO: I think you get 8, then every character that gets to level 40, you get another free slot

    CO gives you two character slots for free; six additional slots (total 8) for a monthly sub; and I believe it's sixteen additional slots (that'd be a total of 18) for LTS. (I'm not sure because I'd already bought so many pairs of extra slots by then that the new ones just added to my total. I can say that I cull old toons I don't play every so often, and currently I only have one open slot... :smile: )
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  • draogndraogn Posts: 1,269 Arc User
    avianos said:






    The Mantle of the Bat. It costs USD$20.00. Twenty American dollars. 1 and only 1 costume piece.



    The best part was they point out it's unlockable for Male AND Female characters! OoOoOoOoOh!



    Let me guess, it's ALSO character bound unlock and not Account wide​​

    No most of the things in the DCUO store are accountwide unlocks. I think there are a few consumables, character services (Like rename tokens), and auras that aren't, but costumes, hideouts (Which are far superior to ours) are all accountwide. Subscribers also get discount on anything in the store. (Along with the stipend) Subscribers get early access to most of the DLCs (In addition to having access to the pts)

    There is one thing people are forgetting about how the subscription works for DCUO. Your $14.99 gives you access to a lot more then a single game.
  • morigosamorigosa Posts: 709 Arc User
    One important bug to be aware of when creating a new character in CO: If you've just logged in from the launcher, many of the zstore (real money purchase) costume sets will claim that you own them when in fact you do not.

    Which means you can create a great outfit for your character, and then when you try to log in, you either get disconnected from the server, or it just strips the offending pieces from your outfit.

    My advice is to make a test character using the default outfit, log into the game, hit escape, select "change character", delete the test character, and start over - this will get the game to actually correctly show you which costume pieces you do (or do not) have access to. (Or, once you have an actual character, just sign into that one once before using "change character" to get back to the character creation screen.)
  • nephtnepht Posts: 6,883 Arc User
    You can throw toilets at people.
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  • chaelkchaelk Posts: 7,732 Arc User
    edited October 2015
    DCUO, you pay to access any cash over your limit.
    CO- carry limit is 500G, if you sell something over, you lose the extra. $5 gives your entire acct the same limit as Subbed players. about 200,000G.

    Bad news- Zone chat you can't use till 20hrs of play or subbing.
    Good news- go into chat options and turn off zone anyway. You really don't want to hear it early.

    On the minimap is a question mark buttonthere is instructions there. also pressing ESC will get you the menu. Explore the options menu and check your keybinds, you can also use a console controller.

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  • jonsillsjonsills Posts: 6,314 Arc User
    chaelk said:

    Mail you collect from UNTIL terminals in Ren center, uner the arches.​​

    And at one end of the awning the tailors stand under, there's a Homeless Collection Volunteer who swaps your Reputation for Hero Stars (in case you want more - I like to keep them topped off, for the minor benefit they bring). At the other end, there's a fellow named Karneeki the Great, a stage magician, who sells healing items and buys your vendor trash. He's a steady source of income, as you gather items that nobody really wants during your adventures. (You can also sell them to Collection Agents, usually located near mission hubs around the world.)
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  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    Well, as far as cash grabs we don't have any. There is nothing in this game that you will ever feel like you have to buy in order to enjoy the game. There are also no "pay2win" items to buy. Everything that you could spend money on is entirely optional, and you will never feel like a second class citizen for not having bought them. It is one of the few MMOs that does not desperately claw at your wallet ( but don't worry, plenty of people will still try to characterize the people in charge as an evil greedy cash-grabbing corporation all the while playing the entirely free content the game offers ).
  • nephtnepht Posts: 6,883 Arc User
    I play Champions Online over DCUO for one simple reason. PWE owns the Champions IP, the peeps that run DCUO are just renting the DC one. What happened to SWG could easily happen to DCUO.
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,915 Arc User
    edited October 2015
    jonsills said:

    chaelk said:

    Mail you collect from UNTIL terminals in Ren center, uner the arches.​​

    And at one end of the awning the tailors stand under, there's a Homeless Collection Volunteer who swaps your Reputation for Hero Stars (in case you want more - I like to keep them topped off, for the minor benefit they bring). At the other end, there's a fellow named Karneeki the Great, a stage magician, who sells healing items and buys your vendor trash. He's a steady source of income, as you gather items that nobody really wants during your adventures. (You can also sell them to Collection Agents, usually located near mission hubs around the world.)
    I usually sell vendor trash to the Mods and Fusion Tutors. (yes they buy random stuff)

    I used to play DCUO a long time ago. The way costumes work there annoyed the crud out of me. All sorts of weird random stuff that doesn't work together.... AND you start out with very few options. I especially hate that using wings removes all options to have anything else on your back. http://marhawkman.deviantart.com/art/smaller-version-of-TsinXing-203896446 BTW did they ever add an option to resize wings? I couldn't find any that were decent sized.

    I quit after their account server got hacked. My login got corrupted and customer support never actually helped me fix it....
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  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User

    Because there's no other kind of corporation, Spin. Nature of the beast.

    You never surprise me.
  • glortorglortor Posts: 324 Arc User
    demonocus said:

    dcuo has become so cash grabby & unbalanced it puts a bad taste in my mouth so now i am searching for a good alternative and this game looks promising. i don't mind throwing money at a game and currently sub to dcuo but now i think i want to unsub to dcuo and sub to a new game so i want to know if this game is worth subbing to?

    DCUO has better pvp, pve and content by far.
    CO is millions of times better at customisability and you can pretty much make the hero of your dreams.
    So if you are the kind of person who likes freedom and creativity, this is the game for you. If you are more into mmo grindfest and new content / having your items invalidated every two-to-three months to get new gear, stay on DCUO.

  • jonsillsjonsills Posts: 6,314 Arc User
    Best of luck with that, a1. The Valiance and CoT "devs" have been making a lot of promises for several years now. Hope your dream of eventually getting something playable is fulfilled one day...
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  • championshewolfchampionshewolf Posts: 4,375 Arc User
    a1fighter wrote: »
    DCUO took 5 1/2 years to complete; so I say CoT and VO are on the right tack. CoT and VO are keeping us posted from the early stages. When DCUO was ready, it was ready, DCUO never promised nothing but a game when it is finished.
    CoT promised their launch in less than a year from now. What they have shown doesn't even show they will be ready for a pre alpha before then.
    To my knowledge, CoT and VO has promised nothing, until recently. A live creator by the end of the year. CoT and VO have been mum, that is most players complaints, a lack of "promises" perse. However, CoT is scheduled to release an open beta by mid 2016, that and the creator are the only promises I am aware of. A dev confirmed the beta date, stating they are on track for the mid 2016 beta.
    Seriously? CoT promised launch in their kickstarter by 2016.
    CoT and VO will blow CO away, the CoH creator appears to be better than CO and that game is dated/dead.

    I doubt they will do anything more than they are now. Valliance being a blatant rip off beat per beat of CoH with even less quality artwork and such, and CoT just putting out work that looks like it's being developed by a student in school.​​
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  • stergasterga Posts: 2,353 Arc User
    CoX didn't have enough players and profit to keep ONE game open, do you really think it can keep three open? I will remain unimpressed until the games actually launch and I can try them out. Thankfully, I never played CoX so I don't have those rose-colored lenses to obscure my view.
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  • quasimojo1quasimojo1 Posts: 642 Arc User
    It's easy enough to verify on their Kickstarter page:

    CoT was originally promising "our initial beta release, planned for in mid-to-late 2015" and they were offering a launch party at a major convention by August 2015. I will be extremely surprised if they ever manage to release something commercially viable.

    Kickstarters are for suckers. Q.E.D.
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  • championshewolfchampionshewolf Posts: 4,375 Arc User
    a1fighter wrote: »
    Hookie dokie, when the standalone creator is released, I guarantee those whom are bashing it will try it.

    I won't. I personally dislike Titan Network. Most of them epitomize everything wrong with super hero MMO players.​​
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  • biffsmackwellbiffsmackwell Posts: 4,739 Community Moderator
    a1fighter said:

    "CoX didn't have enough players and profit to keep ONE game open, do you really think it can keep three open?"

    Not understanding what you are saying, CoX is its' own entity. CoT is from Missing Worlds media, while VO is developed by Silver Helm. The two companies do not have the rights to CoX, nor can they use the name or else both will face legal issues. If CO can grasp for straws, VO and CoT will thrive. DCUO and CO are their competition....they are far down the MMO line..... people will be all over these two games imo.

    What she means is that probably most of the playerbase for those games will be CoH players. CoH couldn't continue and had to shut down because they weren't making enough money. How that playerbase is supposed to support three different games when they couldn't even support one, is the question.

    I did enjoy your very bold statements from the future, though.
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  • ealford1985ealford1985 Posts: 3,582 Arc User
    edited November 2015

    a1fighter said:

    "CoX didn't have enough players and profit to keep ONE game open, do you really think it can keep three open?"

    Not understanding what you are saying, CoX is its' own entity. CoT is from Missing Worlds media, while VO is developed by Silver Helm. The two companies do not have the rights to CoX, nor can they use the name or else both will face legal issues. If CO can grasp for straws, VO and CoT will thrive. DCUO and CO are their competition....they are far down the MMO line..... people will be all over these two games imo.

    What she means is that probably most of the playerbase for those games will be CoH players. CoH couldn't continue and had to shut down because they weren't making enough money. How that playerbase is supposed to support three different games when they couldn't even support one, is the question.

    I did enjoy your very bold statements from the future, though.
    I just don't think there is enough superhero supporters to have 4 to 5 thriving superhero games, we barely did it with two. If these companies were smart they would merge their resources, but who wants to share profits.

    Which is crazy when Hollywood is on this hero high yet the games suffer.
  • biffsmackwellbiffsmackwell Posts: 4,739 Community Moderator


    I just don't think there is enough superhero supporters to have 4 to 5 thriving superhero games, we barely did it with two. If these companies were smart they would merge their resources, but who wants to share profits.

    Which is crazy when Hollywood is on this hero high yet the games suffer.

    I think Marvel Heroes is doing pretty well.
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  • championshewolfchampionshewolf Posts: 4,375 Arc User
    I think Marvel Heroes is doing pretty well.

    Ha! Definitely not. Considering they just fired several of their developers, one of which they tried to disguise as said developer just leaving cause he was tired of the industry only to later confirm he was fired. Marvel Heroes isn't doing too hot and Marvel is getting testy.​​
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  • championshewolfchampionshewolf Posts: 4,375 Arc User
    a1fighter wrote: »
    Ah, ok, I get it now.

    However, CoH and CoT/VO are not the same. Just as CO and CoH are not the same.

    I get were she is going, but they are two different games.

    Definitely not. Since Vigilance Online splash page is a carbon copy of CoH old splash page, and when multiple people told me that logging into Vigilance was an obvious ripping off of CoH, including their starter zone was a carbon copy with a few of the bits changed of Atlas Park I think I will trust them more. And to make it even more hilarious the animations and attacks that you can actually watch demo videos of were ripped whole cloth from CoH, I can even name the powers used just by watching the animation, no VO is not going to be a different game.

    CoT, considering they want to remake Coh as well, probably won't be either judging their first ever combat video with the select push button and wait mechanics as well. But since they have yet to design a full zone yet I can't say if they remade Atlas Park either.​​
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  • biffsmackwellbiffsmackwell Posts: 4,739 Community Moderator
    Ah, well, it seems to have a big playerbase, and new stuff comes out fairly regularly (well, new stuff to BUY, that is :P)

    I just looked up what you said and didn't find much. There's a GameInformer article saying that the game is a success and Gazillion is still very "healthy." Some people are saying that not all the layoffs were on the Marvel Heroes team (I don't know how many games Gazillion is developing).

    Only other thing I found was this post by that developer you mentioned (I assume): https://forums.marvelheroes.com/discussion/comment/2965750#Comment_2965750

    Couldn't find anything else on it, but it doesn't seem so bad.
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  • championshewolfchampionshewolf Posts: 4,375 Arc User
    Ah, well, it seems to have a big playerbase, and new stuff comes out fairly regularly (well, new stuff to BUY, that is :P)

    I just looked up what you said and didn't find much. There's a GameInformer article saying that the game is a success and Gazillion is still very "healthy." Some people are saying that not all the layoffs were on the Marvel Heroes team (I don't know how many games Gazillion is developing).

    Only other thing I found was this post by that developer you mentioned (I assume): https://forums.marvelheroes.com/discussion/comment/2965750#Comment_2965750

    Couldn't find anything else on it, but it doesn't seem so bad.

    That was the one they faked his termination as him just wanting to leave. Gazillion only works on Marvel Heroes and Super Hero Squad. They laid off a number of employees, and they've had several quit in the interim. The whispers I get is Marvel is not happy with MH hence the firing of said developer above. There was a live stream just before that post went out and people were asking about it, and Brevik just said there is "restructuring" going on, which is basically code for a number of layoffs/firing just occurred.​​
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  • jennymachxjennymachx Posts: 3,000 Arc User
    edited November 2015

    Kickstarters are for suckers. Q.E.D.

    I know for a fact that without Kickstarter, I wouldn't be able to enjoy playing certain games, like Divinity: Original Sin, Wasteland 2 and Shadowrun Returns. Pillars of Eternity is another highly-acclaimed one that I've yet to play. There are numerous examples out there to show that Kickstarter isn't just "for suckers".

    In fact legal action can now be taken against kickstarters that are found to be fraudulent. If CoT isn't delivered as promised in the end and if the backers aren't refunded, then the CoT team would very well open themselves up to the FTC's attention.
    Post edited by jennymachx on
  • championshewolfchampionshewolf Posts: 4,375 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    a1fighter wrote: »
    "CoT, considering they want to remake Coh as well"

    They will need a lawyer first or the licenses.

    Copying requires no licenses.
    "Definitely not. Since Vigilance Online splash page is a carbon copy of CoH old splash page,"


    CO was a marvel game iirc, there are a ton of marvel rip offs in CO, but behold, it pales in camparison to marvel 2015 in population, although it ripped off some elements of Marvel. Marvel is a different game, although we have iron man's mask and flight. Yea, that FB photo looks very CoHs, will admit that, but that 90's mask in CO looks very Marvel.

    It may share some elements, but they are not the same game. A dev stated he cannot create a direct inspired CoH games, cause he will need some lawyers.......they have to tread carefully with this successor stuff. I think there was even a debate about using the "Successor" moniker.

    No offense but you really have your blinders on thick. I take that back, I meant it as I said it, you are putting on thick blinders and choosing not to pay attention.

    What's worse you are trying to use this circular logic to try and deflect the facts. Yea, Champions was going to be a Marvel game at one time, and there are some semblances, but that's true throughout Super Hero comics. But that doesn't negate that Vigilance isn't just having some semblances. It's a direct rip off. The splash page has a Statesman clone on it for crying out loud. The starting zone in vigilance is also a carbon copy of Atlas Park, how do you explain that. And what about the particle effects and power sets being exact copies from City of Heroes?

    Are you really trying to debate this fact or are you going to continue to try and tell me that over 80% is only a few semblances? Seriously, trying to excuse this because of some perceived argument you think you are winning with vapor ware is just making me think of this; facepalm It's like the same arguments I use to hear back when I played UO when game X was going to destroy UO (like Shadowbane, DAoC and so forth). Wait for the games to actually make it out before you start crowing how great they will be. Considering CoH game play was considered dated when CoH came out, I don't think it's a time to start crowing.​​
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  • biffsmackwellbiffsmackwell Posts: 4,739 Community Moderator

    That was the one they faked his termination as him just wanting to leave. Gazillion only works on Marvel Heroes and Super Hero Squad. They laid off a number of employees, and they've had several quit in the interim. The whispers I get is Marvel is not happy with MH hence the firing of said developer above. There was a live stream just before that post went out and people were asking about it, and Brevik just said there is "restructuring" going on, which is basically code for a number of layoffs/firing just occurred.​​

    Do you have a link to where he told it like it really happened? I tend not to believe rumors.
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  • championshewolfchampionshewolf Posts: 4,375 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    Do you have a link to where he told it like it really happened? I tend not to believe rumors.

    i forget which livestream Brevik openly stated that they were "restructuring" at Gazillion. I can't remember if they were showing off changes or a new hero. Probably both, it was back when the above mentioned dev was terminated. I just remember that the words used was Brevik let out a heavy sigh then basically said like he just got back after hearing he lost his puppy that along the lines of, "Yea we are restructuring and re-evaluating things at the moment. Restructuring is never fun."

    In other news, MH look populous because they limited the player cap in a particular instance of a location. I can't remember if the cap is 10 or 20 I will have to ask Tundara about that, he keeps more in touch with it than I care to, and he's been rather upset with Gazillion lately to.​​
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  • biffsmackwellbiffsmackwell Posts: 4,739 Community Moderator
    The GameInformer article I mentioned mentioned restructuring too, but also that the company is still very healthy. This one, by the way: http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2015/09/04/marvel-heroes-developer-gazillion-suffers-layoffs-but-remains-very-healthy.aspx

    Anyways, regardless of what the instance cap is, I don't see the same names running around from day-to-day (keep in mind that all your characters use the same name), in actual instances and the different global chats (their global chat is really freakin' weird, it's not tied to whatever zone instance you're in - often when I play with my brother, we'll be in the same instance but different global chats). I haven't played in a couple months or so, but unless it's drastically changed, it seems like there's plenty of people. Most of the game zones are fairly populated, and they have a lot of zones.

    I'm not trying to white knight the game, just saying what I've seen with my own eyes.
    biffsig.jpg
  • jennymachxjennymachx Posts: 3,000 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    You don't need to make a game identical in likeness to something else for it to be some sort of spiritual successor to the original game that incorporates certain if not most elements of the original game that drew people to it in the first place. You just need for it to have a certain similar visual style and similar gameplay mechanics. In a way shewolf was right in saying that copying doesn't require licenses. Certain things just have to be slightly modified to avoid it being a complete copy.

    The CoT team obviously was going for that to appeal to former CoH players to get them to back the kickstarter project in the first place. Even the name of the project "City of Titans" made that obvious.
  • quasimojo1quasimojo1 Posts: 642 Arc User
    edited November 2015

    Kickstarters are for suckers. Q.E.D.

    I know for a fact that without Kickstarter, I wouldn't be able to enjoy playing certain games, like Divinity: Original Sin, Wasteland 2 and Shadowrun Returns. Pillars of Eternity is another highly-acclaimed one that I've yet to play. There are numerous examples out there to show that Kickstarter isn't just "for suckers".

    In fact legal action can now be taken against kickstarters that are found to be fraudulent. If CoT isn't delivered as promised in the end and if the backers aren't refunded, then the CoT team would very well open themselves up to the FTC's attention.
    So 3 years after the Kickstarter, the FTC takes action, but sets aside the judgement because the dude is broke, so the backers still ended up with diddly. That's the awesome example for why Kickstarters are sound investments?

    I'm not telling you how to spend your money. I've certainly backed quite a few of these myself in the past, and been satisfied with the outcome probably less than half the time. Kickstarter backers are generally not getting compensated adequately for the risk they take, so it is a sucker bet most of the time. For me, there are more than enough games available that had a sound enough business plan to attract actual investors.

    Actually when it comes to games-related Kickstaters, I think I'm currently 0 for 2 on happy outcomes -- Ouya and Storium have both been disappointments.

    LTS since 2009. Author of ACT parser module for CO. Founder of Rampagers. Resident curmudgeon.

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