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Cryptic doesn't care about Champions Online and is leaving it to rot.

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  • gaelyn1gaelyn1 Posts: 193 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    I'm probably an alternate account too. Add me to the list please. :)

    It's strange, for a game which isn't in maintenance mode and which is better than every other mmo, it seems there is almost only 4 people to defend CO. Nepht, Sills, Spinnytop, and the moderator.
    Where are all the players who were on this forum since 09/2009 (1st release p2p) and even since 2011 (F2P launch) ?
    This forum was alive some years ago...

    Even IG, we had #35 MC channels. Now, and since a lot of months/years, there is only 3 or 4 #MC channels....




    Where are the 35X100 players now ? If this game isn't in maintenance mode, with all this new content co have ( :p), why had they left the place ? This is what it seems.... suspicious... to me. Lol.

    PS: No doubt Nepht or any of the others will say: "hey guy, 77+83+11 = 171 not 170. Hahahaha.".
    It's round down/up to the next tenth. Is it how we must say it in the language for hollywood movie picture or video games ? I'm not sure, i've only learned at school languages which were important for me too, not those from a country who hadn't some history one century ago and not really usefull in our country (except to talk on a foreign video game forum which had tried to sold this game in our minor country) . Sorry.
  • reiwulfreiwulf Posts: 442 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    they'll probably argue about a single screenshot taken (even on a good hour) isn't representative of the whole game population.
    Still, cryptic has said that CO makes enough profit to keep the servers up and make small updates (lockboxes, costumes, etc) but probably not bigger ones like many of us want.
    I still think it's very short sighted of them to not realize that if they just invest some more money on it, they can get much more rewards and players. More updates/more story arcs/new zones/would bring much more people than a random new costume or lockbox.
    they could even add a new comic series (was that how they were called?) twice a year, and many people would come back just because of that. a developping story that continues, a new story arc.

    I've come to think that the newer teams don't even have the map editor or just don't know how to use it. because it can't really be that compilicated to make small new areas. MMOs are supposed to be ever evolving games, all MMOs have a story that goes forward, and new story arcs.

    Even just a new lair once in a while would be better than this. :/
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  • biffsmackwellbiffsmackwell Posts: 4,739 Community Moderator
    reiwulf said:


    I still think it's very short sighted of them to not realize that if they just invest some more money on it, they can get much more rewards and players. More updates/more story arcs/new zones/would bring much more people than a random new costume or lockbox.

    I wouldn't go and call them short-sighted as if you know better than they do how the business around this game works. The game didn't get to the point it's at because of neglect. There was a time when we were getting new content on a fairly regular rate, and it didn't save the game. A "new lair once in a while" might be great for you, but it might not be what the game needs right now.

    I certainly won't pretend that I know what would save the game or not, but calling them short-sighted when you know less about the business side of the game than they do seems a little off to me.
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  • reiwulfreiwulf Posts: 442 Arc User
    One thing is certain. their current strategy isnt working. Game population keeps on decreasing. And its already pretty low. If they want changes They have to start making changes themselves. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expect different results. I prefer to think the devs are not insane.
    A superhero mmo is a pretty niche market. Expecting it to survive based on just subs wasnt wise. And it showed. Thats why they changed the model. But i think they put too many restrictions on silver players for them to save it.
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  • jennymachxjennymachx Posts: 3,000 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    If their strategy hasn't been working then I would have expected for the game server to shutdown with one or two years after Free For All was implemented.

    Since that hasn't happened and enough players, especially paying players, are around to make things reasonably active and more importantly, profitable, then it's safe to say that their strategy has been working on some adequate level.
  • reiwulfreiwulf Posts: 442 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    So you think things are okay now. Thats weird i was told pretty clearly that there was a consensus that the game is not doing well and changes were needed.
    Also, a game barely making enough to sustain its servers and small events is not what i call a succesful strategy, maybe you do.
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  • magpieuk2014magpieuk2014 Posts: 1,267 Arc User
    Low overheads, some long-term players, and quite a lot of content already available (even if people aren't playing it much anymore). And generally it's quite a nice game world to be in (outside of Caprice/RP, anyway).

    People do seem to have a real problem with the game and it's continued existence, though. The "CoX was better and it's closed down why why why" and "I am bored of this game, why does it persist and vex me so" brigades do make a lot of noise.
  • biffsmackwellbiffsmackwell Posts: 4,739 Community Moderator
    reiwulf said:

    One thing is certain. their current strategy isnt working. Game population keeps on decreasing. And its already pretty low. If they want changes They have to start making changes themselves. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expect different results. I prefer to think the devs are not insane.

    A superhero mmo is a pretty niche market. Expecting it to survive based on just subs wasnt wise. And it showed. Thats why they changed the model. But i think they put too many restrictions on silver players for them to save it.

    The population seems stable enough to me. Most times I log on there's three Millennium City zones. Yes, I know that's not amazing, but it seems fairly stable.

    And no, they are not insane. They are trying new things. Like, currently. Powers in lockboxes (love em or hate em), level to 30 instantly device, Onslaught... don't tell me they're not doing anything new. Making a new lair or zone isn't the only thing that counts as "new."

    It wasn't doing well with just subscription model, no. It also wasn't doing so well when it went free. When it started making money was when they introduced grab bags and lockboxes (seemingly).
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  • reiwulfreiwulf Posts: 442 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    I only played cox a few hours and i hated it so i cant really relate. Ive always thought those complaints have more to do with nostalgia than real arguments.
    Edit: yes they are making some changes. And i think we all agree that is a good thing.
    I fear theyre too small changes for it to matter in a bigger scale. Onslaught sounds like fun, but it might be something that could grow old fast.
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  • biffsmackwellbiffsmackwell Posts: 4,739 Community Moderator
    Well no new content stays fresh forever. If they keep it updated with new villains and powers, it could be pretty great. People are super excited for new powers (not in lockboxes).
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  • reiwulfreiwulf Posts: 442 Arc User
    IF they keep it updated it could last longer, that's true. However I don't see them adding new alerts to a system that also depends on how often the add new stuff. (Except for a few in years)
    Let's just hope this time it will be different and they add stuff regularly.
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  • chaelkchaelk Posts: 7,732 Arc User
    if you're going on zone number.
    NW when it first started had 3 shards with over 50 full instances on each(ok I split my characters originally), they now have 1 shard with less than 50 full.
    That's with only 2 years and updates.
    for those saying where are all the people on the forums, you've obviously missed some of the signatures during the last year

    "Playing x, tell me when we get an update"
    " Not playing till we get an update."
    " not paying any money to game till they do."​​
    Stuffing up Freeform builds since Mid 2011
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  • reiwulfreiwulf Posts: 442 Arc User
    I don't think anyone is arguing that NW hasn't lost many players too. specially after the disaster that was mod 6: Elemental evil.
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  • jonsillsjonsills Posts: 6,314 Arc User
    reiwulf said:

    Thats weird i was told pretty clearly that there was a consensus that the game is not doing well and changes were needed.

    A consensus? Here? That might be the funniest thing you've said yet. We can't even get the forums to agree it's a superhero MMO!
    "Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"

    - David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    At this point Reiwulf is just playing games, pointing out irrelevant facts to try to prop up his arguments. "Oh only X amount of people disagree with me so I must be right!". Good argument, but my dog is barking at the neighbors so that proves you're wrong.

    Talk all the smack you like, CO is still up and running, and still receiving updates. Just because it doesn't have WoW levels of population means nothing - the fact that the updates it's receiving aren't the ones you want means even less. There are MMOs thriving on less population than CO has, with less frequent updates. F2P MMOs aren't as black and white as you seem to think they are. It's not like running a bread store.
  • reiwulfreiwulf Posts: 442 Arc User
    maybe there isn't such consensus jonsils. I can only talk from my own experience and the people I've talked to.
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  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    reiwulf said:

    maybe there isn't such consensus jonsils. I can only talk from my own experience and the people I've talked to.

    See the problem is, you twisted around what the consensus was about.
  • meedacthunistmeedacthunist Posts: 2,961 Arc User1
    The only consensus is that CO could use more upgrades or being more popular.

    Good luck finding two people who can agree upon how to achieve it or what upgrades would be the best for the game or what kind of content would be the best.​​
  • reiwulfreiwulf Posts: 442 Arc User
    that's the consensus I was speaking about.
    Anyway I wonder what everyone would say is their preferred choice of content. costumes? more powersets? new archetypes? new comics series? new zones? there are quite a bit to choose from.
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  • biffsmackwellbiffsmackwell Posts: 4,739 Community Moderator
    I'd like to see some sort of progress. Parts of Westside have been in flames for six years now. Someone call the fire department already. Have something else happen in another area of the map, something big and exciting.

    Another nice thing would be to have a reason for more people to spread out into the other zones, either for events or permanent stuff.

    Other fun stuff, like races based on travel powers, would be really fun to have around the city and other zones.
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  • reiwulfreiwulf Posts: 442 Arc User
    That would be nice. Id start with something small. Like make an enterable police station and put kodiak in it. Im pretty sure they could use some of the interiors with some modifications.
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  • rianfrostrianfrost Posts: 578 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    thats good that you like this. each person is going to want something different, for me this is less than nothing. there is still nothing for new missions chains, no continuing story and no new power-sets, so its been a little less than a year since i logged in,i pop in every few months to see if anything promising has happened, and it looks like there is nothing to make me consider that. it would be nice to see some of that too at some point. arkayne said there will be other content, lets see what that is but this update is nothing at all to me. it may as well be another vehicle.
    jonsills said:

    CoH had less cartoonish style...​​

    That's a shibboleth I hear quite a bit. It matches neither with my memory nor with the thread down in Costumes & Concepts where people are showing off their CoH toons that inspired their CO toons.

    Can someone define "less cartoonish" for me in a way that makes those blocky, misproportioned beings more "realistic" than the misproportioned beings we have here?

    (Oh, and the writing I encountered wasn't all that great either - I came in when the new toons got stuffed into this alt-u where the place was run by antiheroes and you had to "choose" between continuing the oppression or fighting against it. Very sophomoric version of "good vs. evil", not exactly Shakespearean, or even Heinleinian.)

    you also have mentioned that you only played for 2 minutes. with what i assume was an elec/elce blaster before you quit because of stamina management and cooldowns and never returned, how much writing did you see? the praetorian writing was, once you got into the story, very impressive in how it dealt with extremism and the sacrifices we make for duty, it flipped a lot of expectations for the standard "he-man" style alternate universe where good guys are bad and badguys are good. in some ways the most "evil" option did the least harm, but what would initially seem like the "good" option lead to you being forced by circumstance into a terrorist action. one of the main reasons i play mmos is for the stories, so it was one of my favorite segments outside of dark astoria post revamp. but again, you would barely have had time to make the initial choice in the 2 minutes you commonly mention, so its no surprise you didnt catch that.
  • jonsillsjonsills Posts: 6,314 Arc User
    I played CoX for about a week, rian. I wanted to like it, I really did. But it didn't do anything to help me toward that goal.
    "Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"

    - David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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  • furries2furries2 Posts: 80 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    I had played CoX until the end of its lifespan, I loved it. But it left an empty void in me like it did when The Matrix Online Shut Down, Champions Online was the only game that filled that void. Sense I am vary close to the games I love and it wounds me to see your favorite game gone and having to find something to fill the empty area.

    Also keeping its spirit alive in some way helps heal those that had missed it vary much. I have special connnections with things I play, Espically my Characters. My CoX Villain Character I had was vary special to me I put a lot of love into that character it hurts when the character is stripped away from me. Just wish when they shut down CoX they could of gave us something to make a small memoral for are characters we love so deeply to remember them by. Sure they make just be a hunk of data but we all have some sort of connection to are characters we create.
    "I'll never look back I've got no regrets Cause time doesn't wait for me I choose to go my own way."
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  • biffsmackwellbiffsmackwell Posts: 4,739 Community Moderator
    If you're that attached and have no other way to celebrate your character, you could try that Paragon Chat thing.
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  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    reiwulf said:

    that's the consensus I was speaking about.
    Anyway I wonder what everyone would say is their preferred choice of content. costumes? more powersets? new archetypes? new comics series? new zones? there are quite a bit to choose from.

    I have to wonder what the point of this question is. Are you trying to get people to argue about which one should come first?

    Let me save you some time, and give you the community's collective answer: All of the above.
  • reiwulfreiwulf Posts: 442 Arc User
    Cant quote from my phone, but referring to furries2, i saw some very emotional and sav videos of when cox closed down for good. Its nice to see that many people attached to their characters though.
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  • furries2furries2 Posts: 80 Arc User
    edited September 2015

    If you're that attached and have no other way to celebrate your character, you could try that Paragon Chat thing.

    Yea I found that out. I restored him to his former glory. Its good to see the character I loved so much again. ^^

    I did brought him to CO too but its just a Cosmetic reason much like a skin over it. Rathsphere is a Wolf Super Solder with guns and has his own looks and theme.
    "I'll never look back I've got no regrets Cause time doesn't wait for me I choose to go my own way."
    "Sonic Archie Comics"
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  • furries2furries2 Posts: 80 Arc User
    reiwulf said:

    Cant quote from my phone, but referring to furries2, i saw some very emotional and sav videos of when cox closed down for good. Its nice to see that many people attached to their characters though.

    Yea, vary attached. It's only when you put a lot of love, time, attention and hard work to that character, It's bio and all. Makes it feel vary special. Werewolf my Main Hero in CO (I am bad with names when it comes to characters but I am great at making looks, I will be changing his name though eventully) is special to me, I had put him through a lot passes (Re-checking bio and reading it over a few times) to fix anything and further improve him. His bio is vary long but felt awhile its vary detailed Its still every evolving and changing. His final appearances are at the end not much to improve him further as he already had a perfected Costume.

    I did cleaned up my old costumes that are no longer that great, I dont think I want people seeing them XD.
    "I'll never look back I've got no regrets Cause time doesn't wait for me I choose to go my own way."
    "Sonic Archie Comics"
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    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension! - (Dr. Ivo Robotnik: You took the words right out of my mouth.)
  • euthymiaeuthymia Posts: 108 Arc User

    Oh wait, except they totally do. I look forward to, in the coming months and perhaps years, watching some of you people going through the growing pains of turning your scowls into smiles. Yes yes, I know, some of you will just keep scowling as hard as you can, only smiling in secret where nobody can see you so that you can maintain the front you've so passionately defended as being the "realistic" one.



    I've long said "If they do something new... like new new... like gameplay new, then I'll get excited". Well, I'm excited. This is new. Like really new. It even involves pvp, and pvping to get new gear, and geniusly enough in a way that gets us away from the usual "Bash is unfair" dynamic.



    So all you people who were wondering if this move to the new/old studio was a good one... there's your answer.





    Q the "But they didn't..." responses.

    Yeah because we know that most MMOs survive due to the PvP crowed. Oh wait no they don't.

    People want content. New powers, new areas, new stories, new costume sets, but we haven't gotten any of that in years that wasn't:

    1. Put in an RNG lockbox system.
    2. Wasn't crappy cardboard or the lab scientist thing, which were crap with little work put into them.


  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    euthymia said:


    People want content.

    And they've been getting it. You don't deserve any apologies just because they're not working fast enough to satisfy your personal notion of how fast they should work.
  • euthymiaeuthymia Posts: 108 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    spinnytop said:

    euthymia said:


    People want content.

    And they've been getting it. You don't deserve any apologies just because they're not working fast enough to satisfy your personal notion of how fast they should work.
    In the last 4 years what "Content" have people gotten? Name 3 things that aren't lockboxes.
  • jonsillsjonsills Posts: 6,314 Arc User
    euthymia said:

    spinnytop said:

    euthymia said:


    People want content.

    And they've been getting it. You don't deserve any apologies just because they're not working fast enough to satisfy your personal notion of how fast they should work.
    In the last 4 years what "Content" have people gotten? Name 3 things that aren't lockboxes.
    Off the top of my head? "Whiteout". "Resistance". "Queen City". "Aftershock". That VIPER-based one that precedes "Aftershock" - can't recall the title at the moment. "On Alert", which is content even if you don't like it. The Westside revamp. Some new ATs and a handful of powers, if those count. "Two-Lane Rooftop". "Steel Crusade". With "Steel Crusade", of course, came the new space-station hub, which one hopes will be used to set off some other new content in the future as well.

    I'm sure someone can fill in what I missed. And the amazing part? Nobody asked you for a freaking dime to let you play it. Try to get a deal like that in, say, LOTRO or WoW. (Hells, WoW is subscription-based and still charges sixty bucks for each expansion.)
    "Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"

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  • sistersiliconsistersilicon Posts: 1,687 Arc User
    For better or worse, off the top of my head:
    • Onslaught Mode
    • A revamped tutorial that actually teaches you how to block
    • Steel Crusade
    • GATEWAY Station social zone
    • Foxbatcon
    • Rampages
    • Justice gear
    • Fatal Err0r
    • Auras
    • Forum Malvanum
    • UNTIL Sky Command
    • Vehicles
    • Lemurian Invasion
    • Night Avenger powers
    • Various special alerts
    • Numerous Zen-store costumes
    Coincidentally, four years was the infamous Last State of The Game post.
    Choose your enemies carefully, because they will define you / Make them interesting, because in some ways they will mind you
    They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
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