Alrighty, so after fooling around on the PTS, if I still max out my INT to about 721 in hybrid mode using Aura of Arcan Clairty, I can get Active Defenses down to 45 seconds with a shared cooldown of 15 seconds.
This means that if I take 3 Active Defenses, Masterful Dodge, Unbreakable, and Field Surge, I can still just barely cycle though my Active Defenses to always keep one up. Granted however that Field Surge isn't as good as the other two AD's and none of tem are fool-proof.
I also am no longer using Aura of Primal Majesty or investing much in any other stat, so my damage and HP are suffering. Its aggravating that my whole build has been severely nerfed but its still just barely possible to constantly keep an AD up if you put EVERYTHING into building for it. But the fact that you have to go his far just to pull this trick off is ridiculous.
Alrighty, so after fooling around on the PTS, if I still max out my INT to about 721 in hybrid mode using Aura of Arcan Clairty, I can get Active Defenses down to 45 seconds with a shared cooldown of 15 seconds.
This means that if I take 3 Active Defenses, Masterful Dodge, Unbreakable, and Field Surge, I can still just barely cycle though my Active Defenses to always keep one up. Granted however that Field Surge isn't as good as the other two AD's and none of tem are fool-proof.
I also am no longer using Aura of Primal Majesty or investing much in any other stat, so my damage and HP are suffering. Its aggravating that my whole build has been severely nerfed but its still just barely possible to constantly keep an AD up if you put EVERYTHING into building for it. But the fact that you have to go his far just to pull this trick off is ridiculous.
So, stop doing that?
I still solo-tank Andrith ruins with freaking quarry and just r3 Unbreakable, even after quarry went from being the highest dodge offensive to the lowest... Worst case scenario, use a defensive passive if you really can't manage to figure out how to stay alive without having to have 2-3 ADs.
You're definitely doing many, many things wrong if you're claiming this cooldown nerf somehow totally ruins your build. On average, even this harsh ~60% reduction in CDR effectiveness will barely dent anyone's min/maxed damage output or survivability.
I'm still convinced it's not nearly enough of a solution to the major offenders of "lolPvP" levels of CDR, but does end up messing up much less obvious things no one cares about, like the "new" telepathy dots, archery, sorcery, and the parts of gadgeteering that aren't strafing run. Among dozens of other random already relatively useless powers with stupid cooldowns attached to them. All of those things, which will likely never be adjusted once the blanket of nerfing has been put in place.
Alrighty, so after fooling around on the PTS, if I still max out my INT to about 721 in hybrid mode using Aura of Arcan Clairty, I can get Active Defenses down to 45 seconds with a shared cooldown of 15 seconds.
This means that if I take 3 Active Defenses, Masterful Dodge, Unbreakable, and Field Surge, I can still just barely cycle though my Active Defenses to always keep one up. Granted however that Field Surge isn't as good as the other two AD's and none of tem are fool-proof.
I also am no longer using Aura of Primal Majesty or investing much in any other stat, so my damage and HP are suffering. Its aggravating that my whole build has been severely nerfed but its still just barely possible to constantly keep an AD up if you put EVERYTHING into building for it. But the fact that you have to go his far just to pull this trick off is ridiculous.[/quote]
No it's not. This change is telling you that the devs never intended for you to be able to do what you want to do.
You may disagree, but /shrug.
EDIT: With that said powers that have ridiculously bad CDs and are pretty much useless should be reviewed.
You can tell people have been spoiled by their really short CDs when they get pissed off this much. I have no int primary toons, and I've been able to do everything just fine without INT or CD reduction gear. Which goes to show you can do perfectly fine without CD reduction. You guys jest became to reliant on it.
You can tell people have been spoiled by their really short CDs when they get pissed off this much. I have no int primary toons, and I've been able to do everything just fine without INT or CD reduction gear. Which goes to show you can do perfectly fine without CD reduction. You guys jest became to reliant on it.
I'm not pissed off. Someone up there might be, but let's not place words in everyone's mouths based on one commenters post.
I'm mainly campaigning for under-performing sets that actually were designed around mollifying cool-downs from having Int as a super stat, and need that CDR, at least get looked at in the same way that some Martial Arts powers that provide Dodge buffs were altered back in the dodge nerf era.
I don't think it's too much to ask for, and honestly those sets have needed to be looked at for some time anyhow. Archery's "Can deal DPS on the Move" isn't that big of an advantage in CO, this isn't Wildstar where you can get out of damage splats, after all.
You can tell people have been spoiled by their really short CDs when they get pissed off this much. I have no int primary toons, and I've been able to do everything just fine without INT or CD reduction gear. Which goes to show you can do perfectly fine without CD reduction. You guys jest became to reliant on it.
I'm not pissed off. Someone up there might be, but let's not place words in everyone's mouths based on one commenters post.
I'm mainly campaigning for under-performing sets that actually were designed around mollifying cool-downs from having Int as a super stat, and need that CDR, at least get looked at in the same way that some Martial Arts powers that provide Dodge buffs were altered back in the dodge nerf era.
I don't think it's too much to ask for, and honestly those sets have needed to be looked at for some time anyhow. Archery's "Can deal DPS on the Move" isn't that big of an advantage in CO, this isn't Wildstar where you can get out of damage splats, after all.
You can tell people have been spoiled by their really short CDs when they get pissed off this much. I have no int primary toons, and I've been able to do everything just fine without INT or CD reduction gear. Which goes to show you can do perfectly fine without CD reduction. You guys jest became to reliant on it.
I'm not pissed off. Someone up there might be, but let's not place words in everyone's mouths based on one commenters post.
I'm mainly campaigning for under-performing sets that actually were designed around mollifying cool-downs from having Int as a super stat, and need that CDR, at least get looked at in the same way that some Martial Arts powers that provide Dodge buffs were altered back in the dodge nerf era.
I don't think it's too much to ask for, and honestly those sets have needed to be looked at for some time anyhow. Archery's "Can deal DPS on the Move" isn't that big of an advantage in CO, this isn't Wildstar where you can get out of damage splats, after all.
In my opinion, all powers need to be looked at, reevaluated, and fixed. Not just certain ones.
I'm mainly campaigning for under-performing sets that actually were designed around mollifying cool-downs from having Int as a super stat
They were also mostly designed around launch-era CDR, at which time you couldn't realistically reduce by more than 1/3 (i.e. 60s AO/AD cooldown), and in any case, short cooldowns didn't make it better relative to other sets than it was before.
People who want super short cool downs can still manage if they invest in Recovery Primary (Second Wind) + Int Gear + AoAC. You do sacrifice things to get there. But without even trying I had AD cool downs to 39 sec. I bet if I really tried I could get AD cool downs to 30 secs. Once you get cool downs past 40 secs.. are you really sacrificing that much anymore?
I don't see AoAC getting nerfed because of this. It's already one of the least popular passives. And you have to invest some effort (and make build sacrifices) to reap the low cool downs. Which is probably the real intention of this adjustment. I.E. you can still make a build that can quickly cycle AD's... but it's no longer easy.
I don't wanna push the idea that this change was made for the PvP'ers which is wasn't, however we did get some team duels going on the PTS the other day. I must say I wish they would have made the change go onto live yesterday's update. I recorded the video of the PTS duels, it really shows how much more viability there is in PvP now in comparison to prestacked enrage UR SR builds or SS builds as well as mental storm, rimefire ER builds being nerfed. It creates so many more viable options and to be honest it similarly creates more options for PvE min maxing as well as opening up the opportunity for looking at individual powers if needed.
If anyone is interested in how PvP may change at all then you can check my video out here:
it really shows how much more viability there is in PvP now.
To be fair, any change that disrupts the prevailing meta will make things more interesting until a new meta shakes out.
So far I haven't seen much of a true meta being shown. The biggest "meta" is probably AOPM bubble MD ego surge ascension conviction (as per usual for those 4) but as for attacks there seems to be a fair few options really and bubbles aren't super reliable. I can't see there being a meta like we have currently on live which is like 3 builds with no real room for variation.
The realistic distribution of CDR for an equipped 40 is not that wide currently; it's probably going to be something like 40-66% (based upon my toons).
You just highlighted the very reason a blanket nerf to CD reduction needs to happen. When everyone has at least 40% cooldown reduction, that's an issue.
It's a blanket problem, it requires a blanket solution.
Using a sonic arrow, eldritch blast build with ER tap for the debuff.
IMP you know I love you, and I hate to say this... but your video convinces me of nothing. Yes I think this is going to bring us in the right direction for changing things in pvp, but we all know that even in live a bunch of people can just consciously choose to use "creative new builds" and quickly provide the illusion that PvP is not still being dominated by a handful of master-builds.
Which, of course, provides evidence that these changes are not about fixing pvp...because they likely won't, at all.
Hey maybe Ill hop on PTS as my Power Armor build and you can call up a pvper with a currently-live-dominating build and we can see if anything has really changed
Using a sonic arrow, eldritch blast build with ER tap for the debuff.
IMP you know I love you, and I hate to say this... but your video convinces me of nothing. Yes I think this is going to bring us in the right direction for changing things in pvp, but we all know that even in live a bunch of people can just consciously choose to use "creative new builds" and quickly provide the illusion that PvP is not still being dominated by a handful of master-builds.
Which, of course, provides evidence that these changes are not about fixing pvp...because they likely won't, at all.
Hey maybe Ill hop on PTS as my Power Armor build and you can call up a pvper with a currently-live-dominating build and we can see if anything has really changed
Well I think we all invite you to come attempt to figure out the FOTM. So far every attempt someone has made to create the FOTM has lead to it being countered by another build. These FC users believe that FC is the strongest thing they can use now, seems a lot of people are going support + AOPM but it's ended up leading to duels that never end because they stack too much CON on it.
I'll just tell you that this eldritch blast sonic build has beaten almost every build atleast once, the best way to kill it is to come at me with really high damage to carefully rotate AD's and AO's to counter the long stun. Eldrtich blast hits some insane DPS with its advantage (while they are stunned) and seeing as sonic device is on a 22 second CD now sonic arrow is the best 100ft stun power for me. (who would have thought)
Using a sonic arrow, eldritch blast build with ER tap for the debuff.
IMP you know I love you, and I hate to say this... but your video convinces me of nothing. Yes I think this is going to bring us in the right direction for changing things in pvp, but we all know that even in live a bunch of people can just consciously choose to use "creative new builds" and quickly provide the illusion that PvP is not still being dominated by a handful of master-builds.
Which, of course, provides evidence that these changes are not about fixing pvp...because they likely won't, at all.
Hey maybe Ill hop on PTS as my Power Armor build and you can call up a pvper with a currently-live-dominating build and we can see if anything has really changed
Well I think we all invite you to come attempt to figure out the FOTM. So far every attempt someone has made to create the FOTM has lead to it being countered by another build. These FC users believe that FC is the strongest thing they can use now, seems a lot of people are going support + AOPM but it's ended up leading to duels that never end because they stack too much CON on it.
I'll just tell you that this eldritch blast sonic build has beaten almost every build atleast once, the best way to kill it is to come at me with really high damage to carefully rotate AD's and AO's to counter the long stun. Eldrtich blast hits some insane DPS with its advantage (while they are stunned) and seeing as sonic device is on a 22 second CD now sonic arrow is the best 100ft stun power for me. (who would have thought)
Like I said, maybe I'll bring my power armor build to these duels and we'll see if anything has changed
Well here's my controversial statement of the month. Maybe the real issue with PvP viability isn't cool downs.. but the inherent trouble with freeform builds. There really is not any penalty for being a Freeform. In fact, being freeform is nothing but benefits. Which I think is the problem.
For example, why in the world are we allowed to "double dip" into Active Defenses in the first place? Limiting builds to one AD and AO would solve the entire issue.
We already are limited to just one energy builder and one energy unlock. Yes, limiting builds to have just one Active Defense and One Active Offense would be a major change and probably cause a few rage quits. But so does stat nerfing and that really doesn't address the underlying issues.
For example, why in the world are we allowed to "double dip" into Active Defenses in the first place? Limiting builds to one AD and AO would solve the entire issue.
Except for every other power with a cooldown. It's not just Active Defenses and Active Offenses that are problematic; it's all powers with cooldowns.
Well here's my controversial statement of the month. Maybe the real issue with PvP viability isn't cool downs.. but the inherent trouble with freeform builds. There really is not any penalty for being a Freeform. In fact, being freeform is nothing but benefits. Which I think is the problem.
For example, why in the world are we allowed to "double dip" into Active Defenses in the first place? Limiting builds to one AD and AO would solve the entire issue.
We already are limited to just one energy builder and one energy unlock. Yes, limiting builds to have just one Active Defense and One Active Offense would be a major change and probably cause a few rage quits. But so does stat nerfing and that really doesn't address the underlying issues.
It isn't just AD's, you have things like conviction and in PvP we have things like force geyser and sonic device which end up being on stupidly low CD allowing too easy access to a 100ft powerful knock up + a potential 100ft stun that can get to pretty crazy times more than the CD that the ability actually has.
The gear that we have which gives crazy stats that break so many other things along with specs that if used in the correct combo cause us to be so overpowered are the things that truly broke it. To be honest this power creep that broke so many powers taking them into a level of "stupidly OP" is something that has greatly damaged PvE too...
True that it is still beneficial to run with 2 AD's however for me personally I'll still stick to the 1 AD as I always have. If we limited people to just one AO just as a FYI we would break that game of PvP as well due to there not being enough stun breaks on hand other than AO's. As for AD's there are various power choices that I would consider just as good as getting unbreakable as a second AD such as shields or bionic shielding or if you haven't got it on your PvP build already then smoke grenade's advantage is technically even better now with its built in CD.
The problem isn't having so much choice / freedom that players can just pick the absolute best options as much as it is a problem of having so many layers of freedom to affect layers of freedom which intern affects layers of freedom. The layers of gear - specs - powers with all the layers that are within powers really cause balancing issues. The easiest way to make the biggest difference is to hit the source IE gear which is the "master layer" and would require the least amount of effort to change.
Any power that doesn't add a strong enough diminishing return for performance/powers (at least for similar powers) will always be a balance issue in any freeform game. That is the core reason why AD/AO/(click)heals/click spike attack will continue to be an issue. Things like that need some further restriction other than the 14 powers limit or a CDR nerf.
For AD/AO it would easiest to have a diminishing return per AD/AO by setting the shared cooldown higher than half the individual cooldown.
For heals like conviction/BCR/BS/sentinel mastery, that needs some additional mechanics that reduces self heals when using multiple heals.
For spike attacks that just need a reasonable damage/invested time.
You can tell people have been spoiled by their really short CDs when they get pissed off this much. I have no int primary toons, and I've been able to do everything just fine without INT or CD reduction gear. Which goes to show you can do perfectly fine without CD reduction. You guys jest became to reliant on it.
INT as PRIMARY is good in itself aside from the CDR because of the spec tree.
Well here's my controversial statement of the month. Maybe the real issue with PvP viability isn't cool downs.. but the inherent trouble with freeform builds. There really is not any penalty for being a Freeform. In fact, being freeform is nothing but benefits. Which I think is the problem.
For example, why in the world are we allowed to "double dip" into Active Defenses in the first place? Limiting builds to one AD and AO would solve the entire issue.
We already are limited to just one energy builder and one energy unlock. Yes, limiting builds to have just one Active Defense and One Active Offense would be a major change and probably cause a few rage quits. But so does stat nerfing and that really doesn't address the underlying issues.
Diminishing Returns... FF's get hit with it harder then AT's. that's why DPS is more viable for them cause they can hit/spike higher, you know, Damage!, It's quite frustrating when you build a FF Devestator styled DPS(Or any AT themed FF Build) it does ~1/4-1/3 less damage overall compared to AT, wonder why their virtually isn't any FF Heavy Weapons Builds out there, cause Diminishing returns/Imbalance make it less viable(Same with other types, were the Crits are the only satisfying damage), why not make all super stats function on a Curve (Like full benefit upto~150-200, taper off and hit soft cap ~300-400) that way if you want to specialize you can do as intended, Str Prime - Hit harder with Melee(Like an AT), Ego Prime - Hit Harder with Ranged(Like an AT), Pre Prime - Heal More(Like an AT?), lets not forget about updating those Spec Tree's, something other then the usual Guard/Wardicator combo to keep up, thanks.
I take this quote from a review that I agree with.
"customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
My 5 cent: 75% kills INT and leaves STR/CON (which should be nerfed too then, big time, juggernaut anyone?) and maybe some dodge builds as viable. Dear devs, please stop intentionally destroying this game. Thanks. Don't go overboard on nerfs! This is TERRIBLE TERRIBLE TERRIBLE TERRIBLE! Maybe big letters will help. THIS IS TERRIBLE DECISION MAKING!
If you want to shut this game down just do it and spare us more nerfs that will drive away the playerbase. Because that is the feeling I get from this completely over the top nerfs. Nerfs should be mild adjustments and not wrecking ball tactics.
I take this quote from a review that I agree with.
"customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
My 5 cent: 75% kills INT and leaves STR/CON (which should be nerfed too then, big time, juggernaut anyone?)
I assume that combo is give Melee Builds more of a fighting chance against more flexible ranged builds.
Even Ranged PvP builds use that combo. That is how overpowered Defense scaling with Juggernaut and Wardicator (works with guardian too) is. It also helps greatly against knockback. The 75% cooldown hate is just superrandom, when there is other stuff that needs looking into too. Its way overboard and feels like someone is having a personal crusade against those build options.
My 5 cent: 75% kills INT and leaves STR/CON (which should be nerfed too then, big time, juggernaut anyone?)
I assume that combo is give Melee Builds more of a fighting chance against more flexible ranged builds.
Thanks to Juggernaut and Brutality Str/Con/Int (or Dex) is a very good combo for ranged builds as well. Add Guardicator and AOPM and you'll get stupid amounts of offense and defense. Plus a ton of HP. A ranged build running that will be hard to kill and pumps out lots of damage.
My 5 cent: 75% kills INT and leaves STR/CON (which should be nerfed too then, big time, juggernaut anyone?)
I assume that combo is give Melee Builds more of a fighting chance against more flexible ranged builds.
The 75% cooldown hate is just superrandom, when there is other stuff that needs looking into too. Its way overboard and feels like someone is having a personal crusade against those build options.
I honestly believe that the cooldown has nothing to do with pvp and everything to do with new powers coming into the game. If you look at the new powers they all have pretty lengthy cooldowns (well for this game they do). CDR lets people spam powers that probably are not supposed to be spammable. AO and DO's just got caught in the cross fire.. but I bet they are not the primary reason for CDR reduction.
STR primary would probably be fine as a spec tree as far as balance goes if they just made it so that the crit severity only worked on melee powers. That way ranged builds could still go STR primary for the knock resist and defense if they stacked CON, but they'd sacrifice damage in the process... kinda how it should be.
On the note of cooldown reduction being nerfed, that is the biggest over performing system in the game at the moment. A nerf was definitely called for it. INT won't be anywhere near useless after this either, because it'll still be the best energy stat while giving one many options for damage as well.
You can tell people have been spoiled by their really short CDs when they get pissed off this much. I have no int primary toons, and I've been able to do everything just fine without INT or CD reduction gear. Which goes to show you can do perfectly fine without CD reduction. You guys jest became to reliant on it.
INT as PRIMARY is good in itself aside from the CDR because of the spec tree.
Yep, its a good stat.
I can't fully agree with this, because nobody is seriously discussing what use Int has left with this nerf, as a secondary stat. which is frankly little.
The spec tree as primary may have other things to offer, but the stat itself has to give something more than one fifth of the value of End and one fifth of the value of Rec and call it a day, in my opinion.
I can't fully agree with this, because nobody is seriously discussing what use Int has left with this nerf, as a secondary stat. which is frankly little.
The spec tree as primary may have other things to offer, but the stat itself has to give something more than one fifth of the value of End and one fifth of the value of Rec and call it a day, in my opinion.
Even with little to no investment in INT as a secondary, it will take care of many builds' energy issues when used with MSA while still providing some CDR, stealth sight, and cost discount. It's still a completely fine, if not strong stat.
I can't fully agree with this, because nobody is seriously discussing what use Int has left with this nerf, as a secondary stat. which is frankly little.
The spec tree as primary may have other things to offer, but the stat itself has to give something more than one fifth of the value of End and one fifth of the value of Rec and call it a day, in my opinion.
What Int gives you is energy cost reduction, MSA scaling, and scaling on Concentration -- i.e. you can cover both your energy management and your damage output with a single stat. On ranged builds, that's extremely strong. It does make Int somewhat marginal on melee builds.
On Str primary, you could fix Juggernaut by just changing "The Best Defense" from "33-66-100% of Defense" to "33-66-100% of Defense from Gear". Aggressive Stance should also probably be "10-20% of Offense from Gear". That gets rid of the whole cycling business and generally makes them both weaker, but they're both grossly overpowered so that's not a serious loss.
I can't fully agree with this, because nobody is seriously discussing what use Int has left with this nerf, as a secondary stat. which is frankly little.
The spec tree as primary may have other things to offer, but the stat itself has to give something more than one fifth of the value of End and one fifth of the value of Rec and call it a day, in my opinion.
What Int gives you is energy cost reduction, MSA scaling, and scaling on Concentration -- i.e. you can cover both your energy management and your damage output with a single stat. On ranged builds, that's extremely strong. It does make Int somewhat marginal on melee builds.
On Str primary, you could fix Juggernaut by just changing "The Best Defense" from "33-66-100% of Defense" to "33-66-100% of Defense from Gear". Aggressive Stance should also probably be "10-20% of Offense from Gear". That gets rid of the whole cycling business and generally makes them both weaker, but they're both grossly overpowered so that's not a serious loss.
Or instead of nerfing those specs, they can buff the rest of the specs.
Or instead of nerfing those specs, they can buff the rest of the specs.
The problem with those specs is that they're multiplicative with other specs, so if you buff other specs, you would indirectly buff the problem specs. It's a lot easier to balance things if you avoid cross-set interactions.
What Int gives you is energy cost reduction, MSA scaling, and scaling on Concentration -- i.e. you can cover both your energy management and your damage output with a single stat. On ranged builds, that's extremely strong. It does make Int somewhat marginal on melee builds.
You can do that with stats other than int for other energy unlocks and forms. Ego and Str have cost discounts for ranged / melee powers. You can run a lot of powers with 10 int and investing in stats that do damage.
Juggernaut could be replaced with Force of Will... And I bet people will still stack Con out the wazoo.
You can do that with stats other than int for other energy unlocks and forms.
If you're doing ranged dps, you're going to use Concentration, and that means you've got a choice between Int and Ego. The only EUs that use Ego are Munitions, Archery, and Telekinesis.
Juggernaut could be replaced with Force of Will... And I bet people will still stack Con out the wazoo.
My suggestion about The Best Defense solves Force of Will just as much as it solves Juggernaut. As for Con, well, sure, Con is a problem, but that doesn't mean Int wasn't a problem.
I'm pointing out that Int isn't a special snowflake. Not everyone is going to use Quarry as their slotted passive.
Rune said: I can't fully agree with this, because nobody is seriously discussing what use Int has left with this nerf, as a secondary stat. which is frankly little.
You said: What Int gives you is energy cost reduction, MSA scaling, and scaling on Concentration -- i.e. you can cover both your energy management and your damage output with a single stat. On ranged builds, that's extremely strong. It does make Int somewhat marginal on melee builds.
I said: You can do that with stats other than int for other energy unlocks and forms.
Even with little to no investment in INT as a secondary, it will take care of many builds' energy issues when used with MSA while still providing some CDR, stealth sight, and cost discount. It's still a completely fine, if not strong stat.
How does that do anything for an AT which can't choose to take MSA, exactly?
EDITHow the hell does quoting work with this new HTML exactly, I can't get it to do the blockquotes right. blargh. .can we just have BBcode back?
How does that do anything for an AT which can't choose to take MSA, exactly?
EDIT How the hell does quoting work with this new HTML exactly, I can't get it to do the blockquotes right. blargh. .can we just have BBcode back?
It doesn't, of course. But INT still doesn't even need MSA to be considered "useful" or "good." It can still be used as a means of both energy management and damage when Concentration or Aspect of the Infernal is one's form - which a LOT of AT's tend to have. REC or END never cut it unless they're primary stats for me. INT on the other hand covers multiple things at once.
I'm just manually editing/removing what I want to stay in quotes when pressing the "quote" function.
I don't like this change. I do, however, feel that it's needed; the gap in performance between "I just got this new power, let's see what it can do" and "okay now I'm level 40 with CDR gear" is just too wide.
I would like, however, to see a pass done on powers (and devices!) with cooldowns at the same time as this nerf goes live. Not just for balance (someone's mentioned telepathy powers, for example), but also for feel. For example, a power like Miniaturization Drive with the Reciprocal Gyros advantage just feels better in play if you can keep it up roughly 100% of the time. Same goes for things like Fire Snake. I've got two characters that deliberately tuned their CDR gear towards those goals, and they just won't be as fun to play with CDR nerfed.
I would like, however, to see a pass done on powers (and devices!) with cooldowns at the same time as this nerf goes live.
We'd all like everything to go faster, but fact is they need a window of time to look at how everything performs once the cooldown reduction is in place. Too much at once and everything suffers! They have a big job ahead of them, so let's be patient
Even with little to no investment in INT as a secondary, it will take care of many builds' energy issues when used with MSA while still providing some CDR, stealth sight, and cost discount. It's still a completely fine, if not strong stat.
How does that do anything for an AT which can't choose to take MSA, exactly?
EDITHow the hell does quoting work with this new HTML exactly, I can't get it to do the blockquotes right. blargh. .can we just have BBcode back?
The tag for quoting on these forums is < blockquote class ="quote" > with out spaces between the < > and class =.
Comments
This means that if I take 3 Active Defenses, Masterful Dodge, Unbreakable, and Field Surge, I can still just barely cycle though my Active Defenses to always keep one up. Granted however that Field Surge isn't as good as the other two AD's and none of tem are fool-proof.
I also am no longer using Aura of Primal Majesty or investing much in any other stat, so my damage and HP are suffering. Its aggravating that my whole build has been severely nerfed but its still just barely possible to constantly keep an AD up if you put EVERYTHING into building for it. But the fact that you have to go his far just to pull this trick off is ridiculous.
So, stop doing that?
I still solo-tank Andrith ruins with freaking quarry and just r3 Unbreakable, even after quarry went from being the highest dodge offensive to the lowest... Worst case scenario, use a defensive passive if you really can't manage to figure out how to stay alive without having to have 2-3 ADs.
You're definitely doing many, many things wrong if you're claiming this cooldown nerf somehow totally ruins your build. On average, even this harsh ~60% reduction in CDR effectiveness will barely dent anyone's min/maxed damage output or survivability.
I'm still convinced it's not nearly enough of a solution to the major offenders of "lolPvP" levels of CDR, but does end up messing up much less obvious things no one cares about, like the "new" telepathy dots, archery, sorcery, and the parts of gadgeteering that aren't strafing run. Among dozens of other random already relatively useless powers with stupid cooldowns attached to them. All of those things, which will likely never be adjusted once the blanket of nerfing has been put in place.
Snark never dies.
I'm mainly campaigning for under-performing sets that actually were designed around mollifying cool-downs from having Int as a super stat, and need that CDR, at least get looked at in the same way that some Martial Arts powers that provide Dodge buffs were altered back in the dodge nerf era.
I don't think it's too much to ask for, and honestly those sets have needed to be looked at for some time anyhow. Archery's "Can deal DPS on the Move" isn't that big of an advantage in CO, this isn't Wildstar where you can get out of damage splats, after all.
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I don't see AoAC getting nerfed because of this. It's already one of the least popular passives. And you have to invest some effort (and make build sacrifices) to reap the low cool downs. Which is probably the real intention of this adjustment. I.E. you can still make a build that can quickly cycle AD's... but it's no longer easy.
Honestly, I think that's fair.
If anyone is interested in how PvP may change at all then you can check my video out here:
Using a sonic arrow, eldritch blast build with ER tap for the debuff.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
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A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
It's a blanket problem, it requires a blanket solution.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Which, of course, provides evidence that these changes are not about fixing pvp...because they likely won't, at all.
Hey maybe Ill hop on PTS as my Power Armor build and you can call up a pvper with a currently-live-dominating build and we can see if anything has really changed
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
I'll just tell you that this eldritch blast sonic build has beaten almost every build atleast once, the best way to kill it is to come at me with really high damage to carefully rotate AD's and AO's to counter the long stun. Eldrtich blast hits some insane DPS with its advantage (while they are stunned) and seeing as sonic device is on a 22 second CD now sonic arrow is the best 100ft stun power for me. (who would have thought)
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
For example, why in the world are we allowed to "double dip" into Active Defenses in the first place? Limiting builds to one AD and AO would solve the entire issue.
We already are limited to just one energy builder and one energy unlock. Yes, limiting builds to have just one Active Defense and One Active Offense would be a major change and probably cause a few rage quits. But so does stat nerfing and that really doesn't address the underlying issues.
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The gear that we have which gives crazy stats that break so many other things along with specs that if used in the correct combo cause us to be so overpowered are the things that truly broke it. To be honest this power creep that broke so many powers taking them into a level of "stupidly OP" is something that has greatly damaged PvE too...
True that it is still beneficial to run with 2 AD's however for me personally I'll still stick to the 1 AD as I always have. If we limited people to just one AO just as a FYI we would break that game of PvP as well due to there not being enough stun breaks on hand other than AO's. As for AD's there are various power choices that I would consider just as good as getting unbreakable as a second AD such as shields or bionic shielding or if you haven't got it on your PvP build already then smoke grenade's advantage is technically even better now with its built in CD.
The problem isn't having so much choice / freedom that players can just pick the absolute best options as much as it is a problem of having so many layers of freedom to affect layers of freedom which intern affects layers of freedom. The layers of gear - specs - powers with all the layers that are within powers really cause balancing issues. The easiest way to make the biggest difference is to hit the source IE gear which is the "master layer" and would require the least amount of effort to change.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
For AD/AO it would easiest to have a diminishing return per AD/AO by setting the shared cooldown higher than half the individual cooldown.
For heals like conviction/BCR/BS/sentinel mastery, that needs some additional mechanics that reduces self heals when using multiple heals.
For spike attacks that just need a reasonable damage/invested time.
(PS Color Codes don't work anymore? ...)
I take this quote from a review that I agree with.
"customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
I take this quote from a review that I agree with.
"customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
On the note of cooldown reduction being nerfed, that is the biggest over performing system in the game at the moment. A nerf was definitely called for it. INT won't be anywhere near useless after this either, because it'll still be the best energy stat while giving one many options for damage as well.
The spec tree as primary may have other things to offer, but the stat itself has to give something more than one fifth of the value of End and one fifth of the value of Rec and call it a day, in my opinion.
Even with little to no investment in INT as a secondary, it will take care of many builds' energy issues when used with MSA while still providing some CDR, stealth sight, and cost discount. It's still a completely fine, if not strong stat.
On Str primary, you could fix Juggernaut by just changing "The Best Defense" from "33-66-100% of Defense" to "33-66-100% of Defense from Gear". Aggressive Stance should also probably be "10-20% of Offense from Gear". That gets rid of the whole cycling business and generally makes them both weaker, but they're both grossly overpowered so that's not a serious loss.
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Juggernaut could be replaced with Force of Will... And I bet people will still stack Con out the wazoo.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
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Rune said:
I can't fully agree with this, because nobody is seriously discussing what use Int has left with this nerf, as a secondary stat. which is frankly little.
You said:
What Int gives you is energy cost reduction, MSA scaling, and scaling on Concentration -- i.e. you can cover both your energy management and your damage output with a single stat. On ranged builds, that's extremely strong. It does make Int somewhat marginal on melee builds.
I said:
You can do that with stats other than int for other energy unlocks and forms.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
EDIT How the hell does quoting work with this new HTML exactly, I can't get it to do the blockquotes right. blargh. .can we just have BBcode back?
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It doesn't, of course. But INT still doesn't even need MSA to be considered "useful" or "good." It can still be used as a means of both energy management and damage when Concentration or Aspect of the Infernal is one's form - which a LOT of AT's tend to have. REC or END never cut it unless they're primary stats for me. INT on the other hand covers multiple things at once.
I'm just manually editing/removing what I want to stay in quotes when pressing the "quote" function.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
I don't like this change. I do, however, feel that it's needed; the gap in performance between "I just got this new power, let's see what it can do" and "okay now I'm level 40 with CDR gear" is just too wide.
I would like, however, to see a pass done on powers (and devices!) with cooldowns at the same time as this nerf goes live. Not just for balance (someone's mentioned telepathy powers, for example), but also for feel. For example, a power like Miniaturization Drive with the Reciprocal Gyros advantage just feels better in play if you can keep it up roughly 100% of the time. Same goes for things like Fire Snake. I've got two characters that deliberately tuned their CDR gear towards those goals, and they just won't be as fun to play with CDR nerfed.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.