test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Lets Talk About the Level to 30 Item

2

Comments

  • biffsmackwellbiffsmackwell Posts: 4,739 Arc User
    Positive
    I'm speaking in present tense. The game is not a cash cow. Remember how the game looked before free-to-play? It was a ghost town for a long time. Subscription money obviously did not go a long way. This was even when we were getting new content and such.

    Neverwinter and Star Trek have obvious advantages when it comes to pre-established fanbases.

    As far as the "working for free" comment, I do know that some work was done on free time. Pet projects. Unpaid man hours. What people paid for with their subscriber money was most likely going to the regular development team, which at the time was guys that were just making new but sparse content, and regular lockbox additions.

    Champions may have funded things at the beginning, but if it was an actual cash cow now, they'd put in the relevant amount of funding into it to have it keep on being a cash cow, not just languish with slow updates here and there. It doesn't make sense to cut off a money-maker.

    What I'm seeing now is a new team putting in new ideas and trying new ways to make money for the game. They seem passionate about it. I don't care what happened a year ago or five, I'm just looking at what's happening now, and I like it.
    biffsig.jpg
  • hasukurobihasukurobi Posts: 405 Arc User
    Positive
    ..put simply, 30's not the chore. It's the 30 to 40 slog, for me.
    That is how it is for me as well. Personally I do not really care one way or the other. It is nice to get the Gear though because it is hard to get otherwise in my experience. If they want to sell this thing though I would just say go for it.
  • championshewolfchampionshewolf Posts: 4,375 Arc User
    edited August 2015
    This doesn't make sense, because...
    I'm speaking in present tense.

    I am going to speak present tense to. At one time, Star Trek Online was in dire straights just like Champions. The difference, Cryptic pretty much crawled on hands and knees and dove to protect the license from going under. Champions was thrown under the bus. No ands, ifs, or buts about it. This present tense bull pucky is just that; bull pucky. Champions continuously kept having the resources cut, and all promised content updates (level cap increase, Foundry, new zones, new adventures, new power sets, new items, etc) were quietly stopped and swept under the rug. People left because the game was not getting the attention the other two were. Constant endgame updates, new content, new things to do on a regular basis even seasonal events.

    But the real things that would garner attention, and Cryptic knows it, is putting in the stuff and work they actually said they would do. It's pathetic that the last really major content update was Vibora Bay, which is closing in on almost six years old itself. While the Comic Series and Adventure Packs might have been good on paper, they were not endgame content, and the alert system was just woefully deficient. And in the MMO market, you can beat your chest and say Champions is a niche for its own game, fi you don't have something for endgame, your MMO's survival is pretty much in jeopardy.

    There is no vicious cycle. Maybe our current handful of devs care, but as a whole Cryptic itself, doesn't care about Champions. If they did we might have actually gotten a bit of that love while they spent all their time and resources coddling STO and bringing that back from the abyss. Instead we get content that isn't even for endgame for our main characters, and current content continually made even more trivial with gadgets and devices that are ridiculously overpowered now.

    And now they want to add a device when the vast majority of this game is automatically scaling people or the monsters to their levels? What's the point for that now? There's trying to get resources to reinforce your product, and then there is obvious cash grabs. How many people have bought life time subscriptions? How many people had subbed up? How much money has been sunk into zen in Champions Online, and how much of that money has ever been reinvested into the game?

    Oh I know you don't know the answer, but do you honestly feel like before we went F2P and even after when we were told how well the game was doing because of F2P, that they even reinvested into Champions beyond token updates? Maybe we might actually have more than 2 and a half zones in MC active if Cryptic actually put more zones in, more power sets and many new features that they quietly canceled and swept under the rug. I mean, it's obvious the ignore it and just put out new lockboxes every 3 months isn't working, I think it's time to try a different approach, and re-appropriate the money and resources wasted on STO and Neverwinter to save those two projects while they were busy letting the bus burn out its tires all over Champions face.
    Champions Online player since September of 2008, forumite since February of 2008.
    Silverspar on PRIMUS
    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • biffsmackwellbiffsmackwell Posts: 4,739 Arc User
    Positive
    Do you realize you said you were going to speak about the present tense and then went straight into paragraphs about things that happened in the past?

    I'm aware of the history. I was here. I was there. I don't care. I'm looking forward and talking about the present. Capisce?
    biffsig.jpg
  • championshewolfchampionshewolf Posts: 4,375 Arc User
    edited August 2015
    This doesn't make sense, because...
    Do you realize you said you were going to speak about the present tense and then went straight into paragraphs about things that happened in the past?

    I'm aware of the history. I was here. I was there. I don't care. I'm looking forward and talking about the present. Capisce?

    So, where is the resources and the diving to save this game at then? I don't know Arkayne cares about Champions, but Cryptic surely isn't giving him the resources he needs to do what he needs to do to get this game up.

    And you blatantly ignored the question. Do you honestly feel that Cryptic, as a whole, not the dev team, but as a whole, has even attempted to reinvest the money, over the past six years, that players have spent, into Champions to actually build her up?
    Champions Online player since September of 2008, forumite since February of 2008.
    Silverspar on PRIMUS
    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • crypticbuxomcrypticbuxom Posts: 4,582 Arc User
    This doesn't make sense, because...
    Maybe they should put money into building new power sets, customization and a new full zone to encourage more sub sales and reinvite players back? You make the product first then get the money. Champions deserves that after making the money but not getting more stuff added to make more money.

    Cryptic is like the civilian that was saved by the hero but instead of offering thanks, sued the government to take away his funding.
  • championshewolfchampionshewolf Posts: 4,375 Arc User
    This doesn't make sense, because...
    Cryptic is like the civilian that was saved by the hero but instead of offering thanks, sued the government to take away his funding.

    The plot line to The Incredibles in other words.

    Now we just need to some how do a Robert Parr/Mister Incredible to secretly get super heroes back into the limelight again and get better funding for Champions. normal-49.gif
    Champions Online player since September of 2008, forumite since February of 2008.
    Silverspar on PRIMUS
    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • meedacthunistmeedacthunist Posts: 2,961 Arc User1
    edited August 2015
    This doesn't make sense, because...
    Cryptic put themselves with CO in a situation where they have to put powers into lockboxes to fund working on them.

    No compassion here and not for them.

    They made their own bed.

    The present tense is karma coming back at them.
  • stergasterga Posts: 2,353 Arc User
    CO failed as a sub game. It failed as a sub game with a cash shop. No, subs are not important, getting people to spend money is. Which does not require a sub.

    Cryptic is a business. If you buy a product from a business, you get that product. You are not owed something in the future because you spent money.
    YouTube - Steam - Twitter
    [at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
  • sistersiliconsistersilicon Posts: 1,687 Arc User
    This doesn't make sense, because...
    Ever try to pay off a credit card debt by making only the minimum payment each month? Because that doesn't work. That's what Cryptic has been trying to do with CO, though. They mortgaged this game to pay for the double-crunch of Legacy of Romulus and the Neverwinter launch, and they're dragging out the repayment plan with all this "development to revenue" nonsense.
    Choose your enemies carefully, because they will define you / Make them interesting, because in some ways they will mind you
    They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
  • iamruneiamrune Posts: 965 Arc User
    edited August 2015
    This doesn't make sense, because...
    Ever try to pay off a credit card debt by making only the minimum payment each month? Because that doesn't work. That's what Cryptic has been trying to do with CO, though. They mortgaged this game to pay for the double-crunch of Legacy of Romulus and the Neverwinter launch, and they're dragging out the repayment plan with all this "development to revenue" nonsense.

    This is pretty much it. I can't really explain it any better.

    It's like "those parents" who force the oldest child to work in the family restaurant to help pay off short term debt, all while taking the money they save from that eldest child's years of free labor and using it to send the second and third child to college.

    And letting the restaurant fall into ruin over time, hoping one of the college kids come out ahead to pay for the parents' retirement. Oh the eldest kid is told "he's got the responsibility to manage the restaurant and make it prosper", but he isn't given a tenth of the resources he needs to do it with. Those all went to those two college funds.
  • biffsmackwellbiffsmackwell Posts: 4,739 Arc User
    Positive
    Do you realize you said you were going to speak about the present tense and then went straight into paragraphs about things that happened in the past?

    I'm aware of the history. I was here. I was there. I don't care. I'm looking forward and talking about the present. Capisce?

    So, where is the resources and the diving to save this game at then? I don't know Arkayne cares about Champions, but Cryptic surely isn't giving him the resources he needs to do what he needs to do to get this game up.

    And you blatantly ignored the question. Do you honestly feel that Cryptic, as a whole, not the dev team, but as a whole, has even attempted to reinvest the money, over the past six years, that players have spent, into Champions to actually build her up?

    Um, yes. For most of its life, Champions has had a development team assigned to it. That's money reinvested in the game. If you were to show me a chart of how much money the game has been making and how much of it is reinvested straight into the game, I could answer your question with more accuracy. But the whole "we're putting money into this game and it's just being funneled into other games" argument is complete speculation and not worth basing an argument around unless you actually know that it happened.

    And what I take away from recent events is that no, PWE doesn't necessarily care too much about the game and just replaced Cryptic North with some other developers (bright side that they're not all completely green and some people with knowledge of the system are on it) and probably didn't stick their neck out and say "Hey, do something great with this game, here's some extra money to help make it great!" Rather it's "Make use of what you have, and good luck!"

    The "diving to save this game," as you put it, is in Cryptic now trying new and different things to earn extra income for the game. For how long have people been complaining that "all we get is a new lockbox and a handful of missions every few months"? Now since the move to Los Gatos, we've seen new ideas (powers in lockboxes, callouts when a rare prize is won in a lockbox, a level to 30 item) all meant to earn revenue in ways that haven't been explored in this game yet. Some of which have been said to have been put into place to "try to make the game better" which to me means "to get more money to put back into the game." Not only that, we're seeing lots of bug fixes, power changes, some coming from STO developers. When's the last time that happened?

    Hope that answers your question.
    biffsig.jpg
  • kaiserin#0958 kaiserin Posts: 3,077 Cryptic Developer
    Positive
    I don't see it as harmful, just something for people who want a quicker journey to 40.
  • jennymachxjennymachx Posts: 3,000 Arc User
    Positive
    Being someone who has been playing since launch in Sept 2009, played every bit of legacy content currently available and have levelled enough toons through that content even before On Alert even existed, an instant level-to-30 Z store item would have remarkable value for me. I would buy one, even a few.

    As for the argument being "Well it doesn't take that long to get to level 30 anyway" as to why this is a bad idea, some of us have been through the journey enough times to probably not care. At least I personally don't. Someone like me and possibly others at this stage of their gameplay experience probably care a lot more about experimenting with different character concepts along with relevant builds at a higher, more proficient level to tackle the occasional rampage / AP / whatever.
  • championshewolfchampionshewolf Posts: 4,375 Arc User
    This doesn't make sense, because...
    jennymachx wrote: »
    Being someone who has been playing since launch in Sept 2009, played every bit of legacy content currently available and have levelled enough toons through that content even before On Alert even existed, an instant level-to-30 Z store item would have remarkable value for me. I would buy one, even a few.

    As for the argument being "Well it doesn't take that long to get to level 30 anyway" as to why this is a bad idea, some of us have been through the journey enough times to probably not care. At least I personally don't. Someone like me and possibly others at this stage of their gameplay experience probably care a lot more about experimenting with different character concepts along with relevant builds at a higher, more proficient level to tackle the occasional rampage / AP / whatever.

    Funny thing about that argument; Champions Online freeform system allows you to do just that without actually having to reroll a brand new character. I've changed complete power sets on my character multiple times. I am sure others have to. Honestly, the value of this would have been better spent if it was for a dual spec token or something.
    Champions Online player since September of 2008, forumite since February of 2008.
    Silverspar on PRIMUS
    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • jennymachxjennymachx Posts: 3,000 Arc User
    edited August 2015
    Positive
    Funny thing about that argument; Champions Online freeform system allows you to do just that without actually having to reroll a brand new character. I've changed complete power sets on my character multiple times. I am sure others have to. Honestly, the value of this would have been better spent if it was for a dual spec token or something.

    Yeah, I've done that plenty of times; completely reroll the toon and even giving it a new name. You're not telling me anything new. An instant level 30 means I don't have to keep on doing this especially if I want to revisit a character concept that I had previously mothballed using that reroll. That's the value right there that has nothing to do with the retcon system.

    A dual spec token is a good idea, but I don't see what's stopping that from coexisting with something like an instant level 30 token. If the argument has to do with resource allocation, both don't come across as taking up as much as what's involved in making a new costume set or vehicle.
  • championshewolfchampionshewolf Posts: 4,375 Arc User
    This doesn't make sense, because...
    jennymachx wrote: »
    Funny thing about that argument; Champions Online freeform system allows you to do just that without actually having to reroll a brand new character. I've changed complete power sets on my character multiple times. I am sure others have to. Honestly, the value of this would have been better spent if it was for a dual spec token or something.

    Yeah, I've done that plenty of times; completely reroll the toon and even giving it a new name. You're not telling me anything new. An instant level 30 means I don't have to keep on doing this especially if I want to revisit a character concept that I had previously mothballed using that reroll. That's the value right there that has nothing to do with the retcon system.

    A dual spec token is a good idea, but I don't see what's stopping that from coexisting with something like an instant level 30 token. If the argument has to do with resource allocation, both don't come across as taking up as much as what's involved in making a new costume set or vehicle.

    I think you missed what I said. I didn't say reroll I said just reset my power set completely. Didn't have to reroll just rechoose super stats, talents, powers, etc, the whole nine yards and didn't even have to pay real money for it. One of those beautiful things about the power system in Champions.
    Champions Online player since September of 2008, forumite since February of 2008.
    Silverspar on PRIMUS
    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • jennymachxjennymachx Posts: 3,000 Arc User
    edited August 2015
    Positive
    I think you missed what I said. I didn't say reroll I said just reset my power set completely. Didn't have to reroll just rechoose super stats, talents, powers, etc, the whole nine yards and didn't even have to pay real money for it. One of those beautiful things about the power system in Champions.

    All of which only applies to an existing toon that is already level 30 or higher. That isn't the point here. The point relating to value of an instant level 30 item is that the value applies to another lower-levelled toon getting a fast-track to level 30. That is something entirely different from simply just retconning.
  • biffsmackwellbiffsmackwell Posts: 4,739 Arc User
    Positive
    While I'd like a dual-spec thing, I don't think that's the answer to this problem. For a lot of people, their characters aren't just a sum of their stats and powers. Some of us like theme, and just retconning a character into a different powerset isn't an option.
    biffsig.jpg
  • biffsmackwellbiffsmackwell Posts: 4,739 Arc User
    Positive
    Oof. I think 500 is too low, somewhere in the realm of 800 to 1000 would have been my personal price point. I think it might not sell well at 20 bucks a pop. :|
    biffsig.jpg
  • roughbearmattachroughbearmattach Posts: 4,784 Arc User
    edited August 2015
    This doesn't make sense, because...
    Maybe Cryptic is chasing the whale.

    (the link is to the gamasutra article from a couple years back)
    ___________________________________________________________

    Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
  • biffsmackwellbiffsmackwell Posts: 4,739 Arc User
    Positive
    30 is close enough for me. But not for 20 bucks.
    biffsig.jpg
  • chaelkchaelk Posts: 7,732 Arc User
    This doesn't make sense, because...
    500 was just someone suggestion on the PTS thread.
    Stuffing up Freeform builds since Mid 2011
    4e1f62c7-8ea7-4996-8f22-bae41fea063b_zpsu7p3urv1.jpg

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • draogndraogn Posts: 1,269 Arc User
    This doesn't make sense, because...
    2000 zen, or $20, is overpriced, for that price I would have expected a lot more, such as a full set of heirlooms with some decent secondary bonuses. (Primary and secondary)
  • roughbearmattachroughbearmattach Posts: 4,784 Arc User
    This doesn't make sense, because...
    I guess Cryptic figures there are enough players who spend money to price it that high. They have C-Store sales figures.
    Still, it's way too expensive for me. Even if it were level 40, way too expensive.

    I'd sooner buy more auras, character slots, costume slots, even Cosmic Keys. Yep, I would rather buy a pile of keys and gamble away on lockboxes than this.

    Guess I am not the target customer.
    ___________________________________________________________

    Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
  • biffsmackwellbiffsmackwell Posts: 4,739 Arc User
    Positive
    Yeah, it's too cost-prohibitive to buy once, let alone multiple times. Also I think it's interesting that it's a limited time item.
    biffsig.jpg
  • draogndraogn Posts: 1,269 Arc User
    This doesn't make sense, because...
    Yeah, it's too cost-prohibitive to buy once, let alone multiple times. Also I think it's interesting that it's a limited time item.

    My guess the limited time thing is to target impulse shoppers much like the lockbox callout does. Since it's limited time perhaps they think people will spend their money quickly with out considering the price.
  • kemmicalskemmicals Posts: 853 Arc User
    I'd probably by one every once in a blue moon at the current price. It could still really use a price drop.
  • kallethenkallethen Posts: 1,576 Arc User
    Positive
    I'm voting positive, even though I likely won't purchase it. Why?

    My view pretty much syncs with what biff posted. It's a new option to try for revenue that is NOT lockbox related.
    100% of the world is crazy, 95% are in denial.

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • iamruneiamrune Posts: 965 Arc User
    This doesn't make sense, because...
    I suppose the very existence of this package just doesn't even matter now, at this price point.

    I certainly wouldn't want one.
  • jennymachxjennymachx Posts: 3,000 Arc User
    edited August 2015
    Positive
    I'll be getting one, two at most. I've got some stipend to offset, but yeah, 1000Z is a more reasonable price.
  • raighnraighn Posts: 2,339 Arc User
    This doesn't make sense, because...
    .... because it's limited time only... if it were a permanent addition I'd say it's a positive thing... but no, it's limited time only...
    ^-^ cute, cuddly, @Pandabutt ^-^
    jniKqKJ.png
  • guyhumualguyhumual Posts: 2,386 Arc User
    This doesn't make sense, because...
    Eh, the price pretty much guarantees I'm never buying this item. I don't see much use to begin with but the price makes it pretty much a waste of time. By which I mean the time I would take to grind nemesis missions to get the equivalent gear, and the time it would take to go from level 6 to 30 on another toon isn't worth the time it would take to grind Q into Zen.

    Now I know I could use my stipend zen or real world money to buy zen but at the moment I have over 70 level 40 character at the moment and 9 complete sets of nemesis heirloom gear. Spending money or stipend would make sense if you don't have the same time to put into the game as I clearly have, or haven't built up the same amount of resources (by way of nemesis heirloom gear) as I have, but at this point in the game it seems like a huge waste of time and resources.

    That's not to say someone else might not want to spend the cash, and for them it might seem like a good purchase, maybe it might have seemed like a good buy to me three years ago, but for me this item is too expensive for it's limited use.
  • crypticbuxomcrypticbuxom Posts: 4,582 Arc User
    edited August 2015
    This doesn't make sense, because...
    I just want someone in Cryptic to tell us how they justified 2000 Zen for this.

    I was leaning toward positive if it was the cost of a discounted character slot, but not almost 4 times that price.
  • raighnraighn Posts: 2,339 Arc User
    This doesn't make sense, because...
    I just want someone in Cryptic to tell us how they justified 2000 Zen for this.

    I was leaning toward positive if it was the cost of a discounted character slot, but not almost 4 times that price.

    Considering that it's 1/3rd the price another popular MMO has on it's instant "almost max level" boost... 2000Z/$20 is significantly more reasonable... granted lv 6-30 takes extraordinarily less time and effort in CO than 1-90 does in that game...
    ^-^ cute, cuddly, @Pandabutt ^-^
    jniKqKJ.png
  • roughbearmattachroughbearmattach Posts: 4,784 Arc User
    This doesn't make sense, because...
    Well, the limited time means that they will get to see interest and sales, and then work on the next iteration.
    ___________________________________________________________

    Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
  • draogndraogn Posts: 1,269 Arc User
    This doesn't make sense, because...
    raighn wrote: »
    I just want someone in Cryptic to tell us how they justified 2000 Zen for this.

    I was leaning toward positive if it was the cost of a discounted character slot, but not almost 4 times that price.

    Considering that it's 1/3rd the price another popular MMO has on it's instant "almost max level" boost... 2000Z/$20 is significantly more reasonable... granted lv 6-30 takes extraordinarily less time and effort in CO than 1-90 does in that game...

    You also get a bit more for that higher cost of that other games level boost.
  • flyingfinnflyingfinn Posts: 8,408 Arc User
    gradii wrote: »
    Oof. I think 500 is too low, somewhere in the realm of 800 to 1000 would have been my personal price point. I think it might not sell well at 20 bucks a pop. :|

    1000 if it levels you to 40. heck 1500 if it levels you to 40.

    But this is an item which does less than half the work in terms of leveling time needed. leveling slows dramatically at 30.

    It should lvl one to 63.
    CHAMPIONS ONLINE:Join Date: Apr 2008
    And playing by myself since Aug 2009
    Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
    tumblr_n7qtltG3Dv1rv1ckao1_500.gif
    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • meedacthunistmeedacthunist Posts: 2,961 Arc User1
    edited August 2015
    This doesn't make sense, because...
    raighn wrote: »
    Considering that it's 1/3rd the price another popular MMO has on it's instant "almost max level" boost... 2000Z/$20 is significantly more reasonable... granted lv 6-30 takes extraordinarily less time and effort in CO than 1-90 does in that game...

    The key difference is "popular".

    There are popular mmos, then there are average mmos, and then there's CO tier of not being even remotely close to successful and popular.

    But I can't fathom why anyone would want this item regardless of pricing, so how much it costs in Zen/$ is not a big thing for me. Redundant redundancy is redundant.

  • crypticarkaynecrypticarkayne Posts: 182 Cryptic Developer
    Hey folks,

    This is just another thing we're trying to see if there's interest from the players. It's really intended for players with alts that want to bypass lower-level content to get to higher-level content they don't see as often. Simple as that.

    Thanks for your feedback!
  • sodiq200sodiq200 Posts: 11 Arc User
    NO problemo Mr. Cryptic, so um does this mean you might bring the item back later on but maybe at a cheaper base price? :o
    Man don't care bout all dat!....except nuggets ©_© B)
  • ealford1985ealford1985 Posts: 3,582 Arc User
    edited August 2015
    Yeah, it's too cost-prohibitive to buy once, let alone multiple times. Also I think it's interesting that it's a limited time item.

    Limited time only!

    That is a deal breaker for me for sure...
    Wait...like a limited time to buy it or to keep it?
  • draogndraogn Posts: 1,269 Arc User
    This doesn't make sense, because...
    Hey folks,

    This is just another thing we're trying to see if there's interest from the players. It's really intended for players with alts that want to bypass lower-level content to get to higher-level content they don't see as often. Simple as that.

    Thanks for your feedback!

    You might have more interest if it wasn't overpriced. 2000zen is too much, especially for what you are getting. Those heirlooms are lame and anyone with those alts you speak will likely have better (nemesis or q gear).
  • nevan0vanennevan0vanen Posts: 34 Arc User
    Hey folks,

    This is just another thing we're trying to see if there's interest from the players. It's really intended for players with alts that want to bypass lower-level content to get to higher-level content they don't see as often. Simple as that.

    Thanks for your feedback!

    May I suggest one thing then, if you want to market this thing to altholics players? For the players who most likely will buy this more if it was cheaper, while leaving it high as to not "trivialize" new players and such with content?

    How about using that Coupon system that the C-Store already has? You could in a way say, add a special feature to Gold/LTS, that is "For every level 40 or two, you get a discount on a level up pack." That way, it'll sell MUCH better than it is right now, tempt more sub fees for those who want a tremendous amount of characters, and generally just "feel" better for players.

    Of course, I am curious what the other players think but, I feel like this might do good sales wise, would it not?
  • gaelyn1gaelyn1 Posts: 193 Arc User
    edited August 2015
    They are working on new content, so maybe this is prep for making new late-to-end-game content.

    Hahahaha. Very funny Biff, i loves you :)
    A new lockbox, a new costume set or a 10 mns alert ?
    Oh, perhaps a new tutorial update, the 3rd. (Perhaps this time the new players will stay or will use some money before leaving the game if the beginning is better, who know?).
    Post edited by gaelyn1 on
Sign In or Register to comment.