Ant-Man!

crypticarkayne · July 2015

Anyone see it this weekend? While I don't think it was the strongest of the Marvel movies, it was still a lot of fun and ties in pretty well to the larger continuity.

ahordeofkittens · July 2015

This post has been edited to remove content which violates the PWE Community Rules and Policies -Smackwell

jonsills · July 2015

Speaking of Ant-Man, when do we get a version of Shrinking that can be used in combat?

This post has been edited to remove content which violates the PWE Community Rules and Policies -Smackwell

championshewolf · July 2015

jonsills wrote: »

Speaking of Ant-Man, when do we get a version of Shrinking that can be used in combat?

Well if we want to maintain balance, probably never. Since targeting someone that is smaller than normal tends to be a hassle as is. I can just imagine the targeting nightmares. We see that already with people that use enlargement devices and enrage with additions like tails and wings. Now reverse that with someone that can be exceptionally small.

ashensnow · July 2015

Loved the movie. I agree that it wasn't the strongest of the Marvel flicks, but very well worth the price of admission.

iamrune · July 2015

That was basically my own estimation of it, too. It has a ton of heart, and humor, but I think removing Cassie's medical condition was a mistake.

[spoilers] In the original comics story they adapted, Scott Lang was only willing to go back to a life of crime [and thus stole the suit] in order to come up with the money to save his daughter from a rare and deadly disease, to save her life, basically. This is a really great and heroic motivation, a self-sacrifice for a loved one. [/spoilers]

In the movie, he's just a deadbeat dad with aspirations of correcting that.. and maybe even a little pathetic that some tough financial luck is all it took to make him go back to crime.

Other than that flaw, I think it's a pretty solid movie, and I think the writing for Pym and Michael Douglas in the role just nailed it solidly.

Arkayne? Come on back out, it's okay, buddy! conceals his pokeball behind his back carefully.

This post has been edited to remove content which violates the PWE Community Rules and Policies -Smackwell

flyingfinn · July 2015

Shouldn't this be in Off-Topic?

Or is this something to do with In-Combat Super-Magnifer and Shrinker?...

I still don't see why they made Ant-Man movie. And it's not even the original Ant-Man. BOOOO!

Did they really think it would get the millions like Avengers and rest of *arvel's stuff?

But, gonna see it anyways when it hits big screen here.

biffsmackwell · July 2015

crypticarkayne wrote: »

Anyone see it this weekend? While I don't think it was the strongest of the Marvel movies, it was still a lot of fun and ties in pretty well to the larger continuity.

Haven't seen it yet, but I recently became a fan of the character when I started reading the new series with Scott Lang. Must watch soon!

championshewolf wrote: »

Well if we want to maintain balance, probably never. Since targeting someone that is smaller than normal tends to be a hassle as is.

Why can't that be part of the benefit of the power? We already have Teleport screwing things up with targeting as a travel power, why not some shrinking powers that kind of has the same effect?

flyingfinn wrote: »

Shouldn't this be in Off-Topic?

I thought the same thing, but I will give preferential treatment to a developer. :P

moxiedanger · July 2015

flyingfinn wrote: »

I still don't see why they made Ant-Man movie.
Did they really think it would get the millions like Avengers and rest of *arvel's stuff?

But, gonna see it anyways when it hits big screen here.

That's why they made it.

ashensnow · July 2015

biffsmackwell wrote: »

Why can't that be part of the benefit of the power? We already have Teleport screwing things up with targeting as a travel power, why not some shrinking powers that kind of has the same effect?

My thoughts exactly. As a passive that provides stealth, which is suppressed during attacks (grow to hit), I could see a lot of potential.

championshewolf · July 2015

biffsmackwell wrote: »

Why can't that be part of the benefit of the power? We already have Teleport screwing things up with targeting as a travel power, why not some shrinking powers that kind of has the same effect?

ashensnow wrote: »

My thoughts exactly. As a passive that provides stealth, which is suppressed during attacks (grow to hit), I could see a lot of potential.

This should be easy to answer, and one that comes to the land of common sense at this point. Because if you give an ability that has a superior advantage, PvP, PvE or otherwise, then it becomes a required item. In this case, it would be too good of an advantage for PvP. No, this is not a good thing, and never really will be. They have a shrink device, expecting it to be useful in combat is another story entirely. Growth already causes major hassles in PvE, shrinking would cause many more in PvP.

biffsmackwell · July 2015

At this point? You mean how we're coming up to year six of having a travel power that needs to be countered by stacking Intelligence otherwise your enemy gets away Scot-free? I'd call that superior advantage over all other travel powers. Let's not forget how it lets you skip just about any PvE content you don't want to do.

Ship's sailed on that one, yo. Shrinking powers would provide less of an advantage than a single travel power already does. Hard to target < untargetable. There could be powers that just shrink you for the duration of the attack, one where you shrink down and zip from one enemy to the other, punching their butts as you go around, kinda like the boomerang power, after which you turn back to normal size. You could have an active offense that shrinks you, with a cooldown. Hardly gamebreaking, you can still see your nameplate, hit with AoE if you can't tab to them fast enough.

Plenty of ways to do this without busting up balance. The character doesn't have to be tiny all the time. Heck, even in Marvel Heroes, Ant-Man isn't small all the time.

championshewolf · July 2015

The ships not really sailed. And trying to shove more boats off the port and ignoring the potential outcome seems a tad silly. But then again, any travel power will let you skip content, I do it regularly with acrobatics.

And well, you would have to give an example of how to do in it Champions without breaking things more than they have already been broken.

roughbearmattach · July 2015

Can't you just target a tiny character by pressing TAB? I mean, that is how I normally fight.
No aiming is required--the rare times I've fought someone with a stealth aura (not real stealth), not being able to see the target literally didn't matter. As long as the hit-box stays the same, too, of course.

championshewolf · July 2015

roughbearmattach wrote: »

Can't you just target a tiny character by pressing TAB? I mean, that is how I normally fight.
No aiming is required--the rare times I've fought someone with a stealth aura (not real stealth), not being able to see the target literally didn't matter. As long as the hit-box stays the same, too, of course.

Considering how crappy tabbing works in Champions its not 100% reliable all the time. Considering I've been staring at an enemy I would push tab that I want to hit and instead the target goes to the furthest enemy not on my screen, even after all the tweaking I've done to targeting in the options, so no. Tab is too unreliable to be the end all be all answer to the problem.

biffsmackwell · July 2015

championshewolf wrote: »

The ships not really sailed. And trying to shove more boats off the port and ignoring the potential outcome seems a tad silly. But then again, any travel power will let you skip content, I do it regularly with acrobatics.

And well, you would have to give an example of how to do in it Champions without breaking things more than they have already been broken.

You really think that having a power that makes you temporarily "harder to click" is going to be game-breaking? There's so many ways to do it so that clicking on a character being a problem would be completely minimal. I think you're being too narrow-minded about it. I could design a boat-load of powers that could use a shrinking effect and not make it any harder to target the person before or after.

And considering the fact that stealth powers are a staple amongst MMOs, which completely break your targeting ability unless countered with another ability, I can hardly see small windows of difficult-to-click-on being anywhere near game-breaking.

But anyway, yeah, ignoring the problem would be silly. From day one I've thought Teleport was a little more than dumb in the way it was designed, but, how long has it been now...?

roughbearmattach wrote: »

Can't you just target a tiny character by pressing TAB? I mean, that is how I normally fight.
No aiming is required--the rare times I've fought someone with a stealth aura (not real stealth), not being able to see the target literally didn't matter. As long as the hit-box stays the same, too, of course.

It would be particularly bad in PvP (I know, I know, "what's PvP?") where people already use buckets of dinosaurs and other pets to make themselves nearly untargetable. This would just exacerbate the problem, if designed poorly.

pantagruel01 · July 2015

As long as shrinking doesn't change your hit box, it really doesn't matter for targeting purposes. I'd probably make it a variant on Night Warrior or something.

jonsills · July 2015

pantagruel01 wrote: »

As long as shrinking doesn't change your hit box, it really doesn't matter for targeting purposes. I'd probably make it a variant on Night Warrior or something.

Works for me. Go ahead and make my appearance the only thing that changes - it's all I can see anyway.

dialamx · July 2015

flyingfinn wrote: »

And it's not even the original Ant-Man. BOOOO!

They actually do have the original Ant-Man and the original Wasp in the movie. They're story is told in flashbacks, but it's done really well. Even hinting at Hank Pym losing it and beating his wife, though they don't come right out and say that specifically. Fans of the original Ant-Man will know what they're hinting at.

There's 2 after credit sequences, both really good in my opinion. I think it's the third best Marvel movie so far, Avengers being first and Guardians of the Galaxy being second.

championshewolf · July 2015

pantagruel01 wrote: »

As long as shrinking doesn't change your hit box, it really doesn't matter for targeting purposes. I'd probably make it a variant on Night Warrior or something.

Except the hit box does change, with growing or shrinking.

riverocean · July 2015

championshewolf wrote: »

jonsills wrote: »

Speaking of Ant-Man, when do we get a version of Shrinking that can be used in combat?

Well if we want to maintain balance, probably never. Since targeting someone that is smaller than normal tends to be a hassle as is. I can just imagine the targeting nightmares. We see that already with people that use enlargement devices and enrage with additions like tails and wings. Now reverse that with someone that can be exceptionally small.

The Marvel game has managed to do it. I'm not sure how they balanced it.. but they did it. The playable Ant-Man over there is actually really, really cool.

But different game engines..etc.. over here at CO - so you're probably right. We'll never get it here.

championshewolf · July 2015

riverocean wrote: »

championshewolf wrote: »

jonsills wrote: »

Speaking of Ant-Man, when do we get a version of Shrinking that can be used in combat?

Well if we want to maintain balance, probably never. Since targeting someone that is smaller than normal tends to be a hassle as is. I can just imagine the targeting nightmares. We see that already with people that use enlargement devices and enrage with additions like tails and wings. Now reverse that with someone that can be exceptionally small.

The Marvel game has managed to do it. I'm not sure how they balanced it.. but they did it. The playable Ant-Man over there is actually really, really cool.

But different game engines..etc.. over here at CO - so you're probably right. We'll never get it here.

Probably because the bounding box is the same no matter the size. But it's a diablo style game, you don't exactly use lock on targeting to begin with there. Not to mention, PvP is even more dead there than here but whatever works.

itsbrou · July 2015

Does the Ant Man movie have a draw for people who don't care about comic book universes?

jennymachx · July 2015

With regards to a Shrinking TP; I don't see any problem making it having an invisible, untargettable effect like some of the other TPs. It's not going to break anything nor change the PvP metagame where Teleport already has had a presence from the very start. All "invisible" TPs already have a limited duration for that effect and any future TPs to be added based around that mechanic will obviously have that drawback implemented. As for PVE, just about every TP available allows you to skip combat in one way or another so the argument of new invisible TP being added "breaking things more than they already are" comes off as invalid considering all of them technically are "broken" if we're going with that logic.

someguywhoplaysgames wrote: »

Does the Ant Man movie have a draw for people who don't care about comic book universes?

Part of the draw has to do with the fact that Ant-Man is associated with the other MCU movies and more prominently the Avengers. If someone hasn't invested any interest in the MCU movies in general then the answer is probably no.

With that said, Ant-Man pleasantly surprised me since I had pretty low expectations for it.

pantagruel01 · July 2015

championshewolf wrote: »

Except the hit box does change, with growing or shrinking.

I'm not sure that's actually true, and in any case, it's a fixable problem. Then again, lots of things about hit boxes could be much better than they are.

ogremindes · July 2015

Why can't that be part of the benefit of the power? We already have Teleport screwing things up with targeting as a travel power, why not some shrinking powers that kind of has the same effect?

Or maybe the size change could be disabled on PvP maps and when in duel mode. But since teleport is a thing, probably not nessissary. After all, size isn't going to effect tab targeting.

violetnychus · July 2015

someguywhoplaysgames wrote: »

Does the Ant Man movie have a draw for people who don't care about comic book universes?

Absolutely.

I do not care how canon Ant Man is and my family is not remotely interested in the Marvel canon and we CHEERED.

It was the most I laughed at any Marvel movie, and probably in the 3 greatest IMO.

riverocean · July 2015

I have to admit.. a travel power where you shrink and rode on the back of a flying insect would be cool. We already have the flying insect model (Qulaar) in the game. It could be called Bug Mount or something.

nextnametaken · July 2015

Too bad Cryptic missed the Ant-Man super shrinker advantage boat.
Could have had the shrinker on sale Plus allowed for it in combat to make all that old content new again in a big way.

flyingfinn · July 2015

nextnametaken wrote: »

Too bad Cryptic missed the Ant-Man super shrinker advantage boat.
Could have had the shrinker on sale Plus allowed for it in combat to make all that old content new again in a big way.

I think the 'missing part' has been locked, cocked and stocked long time ago.
And they are too busy making content to us. In a big way.

theravenforce · July 2015

Well...I saw the Ant-Man movie, didn't expect it to be as good as it was. I definitely didn't expect Paul Rudd abs either...he's no Chris Evans or Hemsworth...but I'm not complaining

.

I was incredibly happy to see a set up for WASP! Been waiting for her to appear and I didn't know if she was going to.

I enjoyed the movie overall, some good laughs ( "I want my daddy!" + "Oh, I want your daddy too.") and a few touching moments.

I think it was a surprisingly good movie, mainly surprising because I didn't expect it to be as good. Oh AND OMG! POST CREDIT SCENES!

*fangirls about Stucky*

For what its worth...I'd love to see some kind of way to stay small in combat. [In Combat Super Shrinker] Anyone?

crypticarkayne · July 2015

theravenforce wrote: »

I was incredibly happy to see a set up for WASP! Been waiting for her to appear and I didn't know if she was going to.

Was it just me or did the hairstyle they gave Hope really match the look of Janet Van Dyne in the comics?

decorumfriends · July 2015

Which one? No one's changed their look in comics more often than the Wasp.

Caveat: Have not seen the movie yet.

theravenforce · July 2015

crypticarkayne wrote: »

Was it just me or did the hairstyle they gave Hope really match the look of Janet Van Dyne in the comics?

Now that you mention it, yes it did match Janet's hair. I'm just curious to see how she'll fit in and if she will be Civil War ready or what will happen to original Wasp and if she'll appear in Agent Carter.

lilsteffie · July 2015

Planning on seeing the movie really soon, my father wants to watch it surprisingly enough so hopefully that happens this weekend.

iamrune · July 2015

crypticarkayne wrote: »

theravenforce wrote: »

I was incredibly happy to see a set up for WASP! Been waiting for her to appear and I didn't know if she was going to.

Was it just me or did the hairstyle they gave Hope really match the look of Janet Van Dyne in the comics?

No, it was clearly intentional. I think it was a big part of the plan all along.

Plot related spoilers for Ant man far below;

[Spoilers] I half expected Scott to find and bring Janet back, unaged and direct from the 80s, from the Microverse when he went there in the finale. Would have been a crazy WTF twist. I kind of wish they had gone that route. [/Spoilers]

iamrune · July 2015

[Sorry, the forums flaked out on me, dupe post.]

iamrune · July 2015

...And I hate these forums.. I just edited the wrong damn post.

More minor spoilerish stuff, but not heavy plot related below;

I think this one was something about Agent Carter being way too old and active as an agent in a different age than Pym and Van Dyne were. Maybe some possible crossover in the early to mid sixties, but even then, Carter would have been pushing fifty. Then I mentioned that possibly a slow aging effect from a MCU variation of the Infinity formula could explain how she looked so young in the 80s flashback scene in the movie, where she should have been in her mid-to-late sixties already.

roughbearmattach · July 2015

Agent Carter doesn't need Infinity Formula--she is simply so fabulous as to resist aging.

flyingfinn · July 2015

roughbearmattach wrote: »

Agent Carter doesn't need Infinity Formula--she is simply so fabulous as to resist aging.

Well, she was pretty old in Captain America-Winter Soldier.

iamrune · July 2015

flyingfinn wrote: »

roughbearmattach wrote: »

Agent Carter doesn't need Infinity Formula--she is simply so fabulous as to resist aging.

Well, she was pretty old in Captain America-Winter Soldier.

Not plot based but minor spoilerish post below this point;

Assuming she's only 25 in 1945 [and let's face it, she was probably a year or two older than that], than in Winter Soldier set in 2014, she'd have been 94 years old. And she looked it.

I don't really think she looked appropriately mid-sixties-ish in the eighties flashback in Ant man. Maybe she just stayed active a fit much longer than most, it can happen, and had on make-up. Looked more early fifties to me.

crypticarkayne · July 2015

iamrune wrote: »

Assuming she's only 25 in 1945 [and let's face it, she was probably a year or two older than that], than in Winter Soldier set in 2014, she'd have been 94 years old. And she looked it. I don't really think she looked appropriately mid-sixties-ish in the eighties flashback in Ant man. Maybe she just stayed active a fit much longer than most, it can happen, and had on make-up. Looked more early fifties to me.

Yup, agree.

jennymachx · July 2015

Fix those spoiler tags please...also it's not cool to be discussing spoilers openly with consideration for those of us who don't watch movies during their opening week.

pr0fp0tts · July 2015

I'm not usually an advocate of in-game vehicles (not having had much experience with them besides the free UNTIL shuttle), but how about a ride-on robotic bug as a vehicle? Robotic so that it makes sense to mount frickin' lasers on it (and may help dodge copyright issues with ant-riding...). Plus, we already know vehicles can be scaled (thanks to that spate of giant hover tanks a while back...) right? Of course, it may mean adding a 'wings' animation of what would essentially be a different design of hover bike, but I'm sure that's do-able. As a vehicle it'd mean any character could use the thing (and make some ca$h for the game selling them) and it'd eliminate PvP and other 'balance' related worries too.

iamrune · July 2015

jennymachx wrote: »

Fix those spoiler tags please...also it's not cool to be discussing spoilers openly with consideration for those of us who don't watch movies during their opening week.

My sincere apologies, I did my best but there doesn't seem to be an actual spoiler tag. I'll move all spoilers much lower down and warn better in edits and from here on in.

ashensnow · July 2015

iamrune wrote: »

jennymachx wrote: »

Fix those spoiler tags please...also it's not cool to be discussing spoilers openly with consideration for those of us who don't watch movies during their opening week.

My sincere apologies, I did my best but there doesn't seem to be an actual spoiler tag. I'll move all spoilers much lower down and warn better in edits and from here on in.

To be fair, and in your defense, someone who hasn't seen the movie yet should probably avoid conversations clearly labeled as specifically concerning the movie.

riverocean · July 2015

pr0fp0tts wrote: »

I'm not usually an advocate of in-game vehicles (not having had much experience with them besides the free UNTIL shuttle), but how about a ride-on robotic bug as a vehicle?

Yes.. I've been wanting a shrinking travel type power for ages! AGES... a tiny bug mount would be awesome

jennymachx · July 2015

iamrune wrote: »

My sincere apologies, I did my best but there doesn't seem to be an actual spoiler tag. I'll move all spoilers much lower down and warn better in edits and from here on in.

Actually there is one. Here:

This is a spoiler.

You just used the plural in your tags, which is why it didn't seem to work.

theravenforce · July 2015

riverocean wrote: »

pr0fp0tts wrote: »

I'm not usually an advocate of in-game vehicles (not having had much experience with them besides the free UNTIL shuttle), but how about a ride-on robotic bug as a vehicle?

Yes.. I've been wanting a shrinking travel type power for ages! AGES... a tiny bug mount would be awesome

I recently posted a suggestion for a shrinking ONH in the suggestions box, as an alternative to in combat super shrinker. I would like to shrink in combat and Im sure others would too

championshewolf · July 2015

theravenforce wrote: »

riverocean wrote: »

pr0fp0tts wrote: »

I'm not usually an advocate of in-game vehicles (not having had much experience with them besides the free UNTIL shuttle), but how about a ride-on robotic bug as a vehicle?

Yes.. I've been wanting a shrinking travel type power for ages! AGES... a tiny bug mount would be awesome

I recently posted a suggestion for a shrinking ONH in the suggestions box, as an alternative to in combat super shrinker. I would like to shrink in combat and Im sure others would too

All you have to do is remember what teddifying did to the kraken in lemurian invasion and that's all that has to be said there.

theravenforce · July 2015

championshewolf wrote: »

All you have to do is remember what teddifying did to the kraken in lemurian invasion and that's all that has to be said there.

Weeell, enemies wouldn't have an issue targeting us. They never do unless we use threat wipes or stealth or we use misdirection (Ego Placate for Henchies to Master Villains, Ebon Sigils with high PRE etc).

As for PvP...if tab targeting worked a little better, I don't think there'd be much of an issue.

Have a read of the suggestion, it wouldn't actually shrink others without the advantage, even then, it'd be capped at the rank of target it could affect.

Ant-Man!

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