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'Away Shield'

Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
edited January 2010 in Suggestions Box
Due to things like needing to use the bathroom or go grab something to eat that take you away from the PC, but not long enough for you to want to go offline... I'm suggesting a type of placate effect that can be brought up so mobs won't attack you (& to keep it from bugging and doing more than intended make it so in this state you can't use powers or gain xp, so it's also not abused) that you can set to a chat command like '/awayshield' so we can do these things without mobs killing us while we are gone. I've been killed more than once at respawn points by mobs coming in while I'm away, let alone out when doing a mission and a sudden need to use the bathroom comes up. Flyers can usually just fly way up high and 'park', but anyone ground based has to hope nothing will come kill them while away.

Edit: One other thing to add... No healing while in this mode, so their isn't some type of 'get out of danger' use.
Post edited by Archived Post on

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Sounds like a good idea. I approve.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    true.

    /signed

    Me being a superspeed character... I have to pray for safety...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    OR you could.. You know... Walk to a safe area?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    when you have a sudden need to pie, i don't think you have that luxery.
    /signed
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    I son't think this would work mainly do to peotenally cheating issues, but something simaler so other player's know you are not at the game might be fesble.

    like a "Zzzz" in a text box over a player's head if the have not moved thier charecter, key's or mouse in a minute or so.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    sorudo wrote:
    when you have a sudden need of pie, i don't think you have that luxery.
    /signed

    fix'd


    mmmmm... Pie...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Avalanche wrote:
    OR you could.. You know... Walk to a safe area?

    Where is safe...? I've been nuked at respawn points! Ones with guard NPC's!
    I son't think this would work mainly do to peotenally cheating issues

    I think I covered both possible 'cheats', you can't gain xp, heal, or use powers... How can you cheat...? Heck lets toss in 'can't pick up objects' to... 'Recharge timers stop'... Oh and 'can't move'... now all you can do is stand there... maybe maybe plot out a move if you felt like it... sort your inv... I dunno...

    If their were truly 'safe' places in this game to leave yourself I'd never ask for it... but most of CO isn't that passive. I've had mobs follow me across the east side of MC to ren center to attack me and mobs 2 streets over randomly decide I"m target #1 when I'm just standing somewhere... Oh and the lovely 'mobs falling out of the sky'...

    I'm just tired of coming back from taking a pee, or grabbing a drink, to find msyelf dead in a usually safe place...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    I'd find this idea far more compelling for a game that had a measurable death penalty. As is, being defeated doesn't do much. So going away and returning to find you've been defeated, doesn't do much.

    It's an interesting idea. So don't get me wrong. I definitely find it creative and clever. I just think it would be far more useful in a game that penalizes you for being defeated. Which this game doesn't.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    One issue i can think of that would cause an issue would be abuse in PvP. Whats to stop someone from using the command in a duel/arena/etc and becoming, in every sense of the word, untouchable?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    One issue i can think of that would cause an issue would be abuse in PvP. Whats to stop someone from using the command in a duel/arena/etc and becoming, in every sense of the word, untouchable?
    This would be why the overwhelming majority of games don't have an AFK Invulnerability function - someone would find a way to abuse it. If you can /AFK to turn it on, people in PvP will use it to escape. If it's timed, someone will find a way to, say Smoke Bomb and Stealth, or Teleport and Stealth, become invulnerable, then potentially "win" when the other party quits in frustration.

    Personally, on my characters that have Flight in some form, I simply go straight up about 50ft, then hover. On those that don't, I try to find somewhere that doesn't have enemies near. If that's not an option, like for a real emergency, if I die, I just deal with it. It's not like CO has CoX's XP penalty or anything.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    I think I already outlined it as locking out everything (even movement), so 'abuse' isn't going to happen. What advantage would you get in PvP if you can't heal/move/use powers? On top of that it's very easy to make it so you simply can't use it in a PvP zone.

    & I know their isn't a 'penalty to death' as most think of it (though you do lose stars, which is a damage and resistance boost). It also moves you to places you may not want to be... Like say your half way through a set of missions and the respawn point your sent to is miles away from where you are, full of hostile territory you have to go back through... Which can be very annoying and time wasting. I don't know about you, but my time is worth something.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    I think I already outlined it as locking out everything (even movement), so 'abuse' isn't going to happen. What advantage would you get in PvP if you can't heal/move/use powers? On top of that it's very easy to make it so you simply can't use it in a PvP zone.

    & I know their isn't a 'penalty to death' as most think of it (though you do lose stars, which is a damage and resistance boost). It also moves you to places you may not want to be... Like say your half way through a set of missions and the respawn point your sent to is miles away from where you are, full of hostile territory you have to go back through... Which can be very annoying and time wasting. I don't know about you, but my time is worth something.

    Yes i read your "fixes" to prevent abuse, but they wouldn't prevent abuse in PvP as a main area (and without a doubt in my mind someone will find an abuse for it in PvE). The shield idea is basically making the user god mode indefinitely, they cant be hurt, they cant be moved, they cant be held, etc. So if you think no one would abuse this god mode in a PvP setting or anywhere else for that matter, you're very, very wrong. And as far as advantage goes, beside the indefinite god mode? believe it not some people enjoy ****ing other people off and this would be like a wet dream for them to make a never ending game go on for hours while everyone freaks out and rages.

    Also what you think is "easy" may very well, and most likely is NOT easy. So I think you can take those extra few seconds it takes to get to a safe point if you have to go AFK. Most spawns in the open world do not move around on patrol paths and rather remain stationary until you step into their LoS.

    /un-signed
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    What's wrong with just using /logout?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    The shield idea is basically making the user god mode indefinitely, they cant be hurt, they cant be moved, they cant be held, etc. So if you think no one would abuse this god mode in a PvP setting or anywhere else for that matter, you're very, very wrong.

    Clipped for mindless ranting. Now _read_ what I wrote, my suggestion is a 'placate', do you know what that means? It means you won't generate aggro, something that _only_ affects the AI. It doesn't make you a 'god', it doesn't resist holds, you can take damage. Not moving is to prevent someone from using it to stroll around the sim while in that state where they don't generate aggro from mobs. If anything it's an anti-griefing tool, as in that mode someone can't drop mobs on you (which yes I have seen in this game, in fact it's easier than in plenty of others I've played over the years).

    BTW this has bene done before in other games with heavier than usual levels of interaction in the environment. Though since most games these days don't do heavily interactive environments where mobs move around alot, it hasn't been done alot lately. It's never been 'abused' when done properly before.
    SirPhobos wrote:
    What's wrong with just using /logout?

    because then you have to log back in? If I'm going to be 5 minutes logging out seems silly. There is also this tendency for the login process to get messed up in CO... and then you logged out and can't log back in.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Three words:

    Infinite Pally Bubble.

    And I can tell you exactly how it'd be abused in PvE, and how it can be used to grief:

    Player A is working on clearing a large area with thick mob covers. Player B goes in, aggros a large number of mobs (Lead Tempest, perhaps?). Player B runs a short distance away, then activates /AFK Shield. Mobs aggroed by Player B Placate and leash back to original start points through Player A. Mobs aggro on Player A, Player A is overwhelmed, Player A dies. Or, in the alternative, Player A also activates /AFK Shield, leading to a second abuse of the mechanic.

    Abuses in PvP are myriad, but here's an easy one:

    Player A attacks Player B with STC, or a Hold, or Neutralizing Grenade. Player B hits their /AFK macro button and is immediately immune to everything. Player B waits for effects to pass, then comes out of /AFK Shield with a Teleport or Stealth (when they fix it). Player A could also hit /AFK after his attack, making him immune to counterattacks, and simply wait for Player B to die... or have a macro set up that fires off an STC and immediately flags /AFK, then simply keep hitting that button, thus allowing him to be invulnerable except for the split second it takes to register his attack.
    Clipped for mindless ranting. Now _read_ what I wrote, my suggestion is a 'placate', do you know what that means?
    Not helpful or constructive. This is a debate, not a forum for flinging petty insults.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    In my experience, mobs who spawn on top of you don't actually aggro until you move, so you don't actually need to do anything but stay out of the path of patrolling mobs. I general move somewhere that isn't directly in a spawn zone, but really, it's not like it's that big deal if you die.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Aesirgard wrote:
    Three words:

    Infinite Pally Bubble.

    And I can tell you exactly how it'd be abused in PvE, and how it can be used to grief:

    Player A is working on clearing a large area with thick mob covers. Player B goes in, aggros a large number of mobs (Lead Tempest, perhaps?). Player B runs a short distance away, then activates /AFK Shield. Mobs aggroed by Player B Placate and leash back to original start points through Player A. Mobs aggro on Player A, Player A is overwhelmed, Player A dies. Or, in the alternative, Player A also activates /AFK Shield, leading to a second abuse of the mechanic.

    This isn't an abuse of the AFK effect I'm suggesting, it's a abuse of the broken AI in this game. CO easily has the worst Aggro concept I've seen in 30 years of playing games. I'm sure they think they've been 'innovative' with it, but what they've done sucks and leads to a host of bugs you otherwise wouldn't see.
    Aesirgard wrote:
    Player A attacks Player B with STC, or a Hold, or Neutralizing Grenade. Player B hits their /AFK macro button and is immediately immune to everything. Player B waits for effects to pass, then comes out of /AFK Shield with a Teleport or Stealth (when they fix it). Player A could also hit /AFK after his attack, making him immune to counterattacks, and simply wait for Player B to die... or have a macro set up that fires off an STC and immediately flags /AFK, then simply keep hitting that button, thus allowing him to be invulnerable except for the split second it takes to register his attack.

    Placate is not an effect that even _Works_ in PvP. It's something that only works on the AI. In the case that they have managed to break even this concept then simply use a 'buff/debuff' counter. As many buffs and counters as are used now adding another to insure you can't do this is even simpler. You can't argue that this can be abused except if it's implemented badly, even 1 second before it can be used again would keep it form being a problem even if they screwed up and let it work in PvP.
    Aesirgard wrote:
    Not helpful or constructive. This is a debate, not a forum for flinging petty insults.

    I refuse to call people who can't read part of a 'debate', he completely missed how it was suggested to work and ranted about how he thought it worked. Defending someone who is just misleading actual discussion into his own gripes doesn't help either. But I don't think you mean for this to be a debate at all.

    For me this is personal. I have IBS (look it up if you care). I often have to suddenly use the restroom and I'm tired of the game penalizing me for it as their is no 'safe' area. I've already explained why that's the case.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Pantagruel wrote:
    In my experience, mobs who spawn on top of you don't actually aggro until you move, so you don't actually need to do anything but stay out of the path of patrolling mobs. I general move somewhere that isn't directly in a spawn zone, but really, it's not like it's that big deal if you die.

    At the respawn point near the bookstore in Millennium cities east side I've had mobs drop out of the sky and attack me just as I was coming back from being AFK. Thank god I just got back as for whatever reason with no one else visible around they came at me.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    I make block a toggle:

    /bind rtrigger "powertrayexec 1 16"

    Most npc mobs will not kill me too easily if I am away for less than two minutes.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    This isn't an abuse of the AFK effect I'm suggesting, it's a abuse of the broken AI in this game. CO easily has the worst Aggro concept I've seen in 30 years of playing games. I'm sure they think they've been 'innovative' with it, but what they've done sucks and leads to a host of bugs you otherwise wouldn't see.
    No, it's an abuse of the /AFK effect, which is made possible by how the AI functions. Then again, the exact situation I described would work in WoW so long as the mobs took damage from Player A before Player B used the /AFK Shield as well... with the added effect that all of the mobs would be tapped by Player B, so anything Player A killed wouldn't count for him. It's pretty much a standard griefing procedure, which works in pretty much every open-world MMO there is.
    Placate is not an effect that even _Works_ in PvP. It's something that only works on the AI. In the case that they have managed to break even this concept then simply use a 'buff/debuff' counter. As many buffs and counters as are used now adding another to insure you can't do this is even simpler. You can't argue that this can be abused except if it's implemented badly, even 1 second before it can be used again would keep it form being a problem even if they screwed up and let it work in PvP.
    Remember all the problems with Magician's Dust in PvP?

    That was a Placate effect.

    Placate against PCs turns you invisible and untargetable. It's also not even a part of what I was talking about in my post, except in that I was talking about the /AFK Shield making you invulnerable. I then detailed how a mechanic, designed exactly as you described, could be abused in PvP, assuming it wasn't simply yet another mechanic that's disabled or crippled in PvP, like Follow.
    I refuse to call people who can't read part of a 'debate', he completely missed how it was suggested to work and ranted about how he thought it worked. Defending someone who is just misleading actual discussion into his own gripes doesn't help either. But I don't think you mean for this to be a debate at all.
    Except that you aren't reading anything but what you want to see, either. You're barely even responding to what other posters are saying. I didn't even mention Placate in my comment about PvP abuses - I was responding to the idea that the /AFK Shield makes you literally invulnerable, not just that it involves a Placate effect for an aggro wipe... except that isn't actually how Placate works, anyway. See above.

    As for my intentions towards this being a debate or not... well, I'm not the one being insulting.
    For me this is personal. I have IBS (look it up if you care). I often have to suddenly use the restroom and I'm tired of the game penalizing me for it as their is no 'safe' area. I've already explained why that's the case.
    As much as I do not envy you your IBS, I also do not feel it's necessary to change the entire game to accommodate the medical issues of one player, especially when that change involves a feature that is easily abusable by people for whom it was not intended. I understand this is a personal concern of yours, but in this situation, either pick up Flight and hit Spacebar for a few seconds, or play games with Pause menus. I've had times when I've had to abruptly go AFK myself, and in those situations, I adapt to the game, rather than expect a multi-player game to accommodate me.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    This is an interesting idea. Make it a "stance" with a 15 second activation time and 15 second deactivation time and we are in business.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Aesirgard wrote:
    Blah Blah Blah...

    So Cryptic added an effect to the power to make it effect PvP, it _shouldn't_ have that. End of story. Their is no more argument. Suggesting I play Single Player games because the devs can't make a functional effect I've seen in other games as long ago as 15 years back is terribly insulting to me. So frankly: Screw you.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    So Cryptic added an effect to the power to make it effect PvP, it _shouldn't_ have that. End of story. Their is no more argument.
    No. They didn't add the effect, it was there anyway. The reason it screwed up PvP is because it works exactly the same in PvP and PvE. PCs aren't effected by aggro, but they are effected by the invis/untargetable portion. Seriously, go look up every single Placate power in the game, they all do exactly the same thing. Magician's Dust was a cone-effect instant Placate Device on a short timer with no charges. They added charges. Placate still does the same thing it always has.
    Suggesting I play Single Player games because the devs can't make a functional effect I've seen in other games as long ago as 15 years back is terribly insulting to me. So frankly: Screw you.
    Know what? If you're this thin-skinned and prone to turning insulting, you really should go back to single player games; MMOs involve a degree of social capability that you apparently lack... and you had the nerve to accuse me of not wanting a debate. Seriously.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Superchum wrote:
    I'd find this idea far more compelling for a game that had a measurable death penalty. As is, being defeated doesn't do much. So going away and returning to find you've been defeated, doesn't do much.

    It's an interesting idea. So don't get me wrong. I definitely find it creative and clever. I just think it would be far more useful in a game that penalizes you for being defeated. Which this game doesn't.

    I agree, with no real death penalty and no wait time to log out this is more of a back burner idea, devs have much more pressing things to do. Nice idea though.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    First of all, make it so the /AFK function does not function in a PVP area. problem solved. in a PVP area you should be able to send a message to the other player and say "Hey I need a quick bio break, brb in 2 mins". if they agree, then great, if not then no break for you. If they lie then you just don't PVP that person again or don't believe them later. in a PVP area, there are more people playing than just you and there is no reason that you should have the power to stop their game at your whim. If you lose the PVP battle because of a small bladder then I guess thats just too bad. Take you break before the match begins, that just good planning.

    Second, for PvE, give the /AFK function a restriction that it cannot be used while in combat. that should be a simple enough thing to do since there are plenty of slotted passives out there that only function when in combat, why, not something that only functions outside of combat. this prevents any abuse of the power to aggro/grief or during tough boss fights.

    so the only time you can use it is when you are in a "safe area" where there no mobs currently. when you start the /AFK function you become "invisible" to any new mobs that appear in the area while you are away. When you drop the /AFK the nearby mobs can aggro as per their usual AI. so, if you are knee deep in henchmen when you get back at least you are there to control your own death instead of comming back to a dead character.

    if anyone can think of any exploits with this, then lets hear them, and instead of just saying it won't work, please provide suggestions to make it work.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    masterdx wrote:
    fix'd


    mmmmm... Pie...

    in dutch, literally it's pee, but ok :p
  • Archived PostArchived Post Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Log out if you care that much about losing a star. Problem solved, no coding necessary.
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