About the Damage resistance

Archived Post · December 2009

hihi,

i'm a might with invulnerabilty toon, and i have a couple of questions :

- how do i calculate my total damage resistance. if 30% from gear and 30% from invu, is my total res 60%
- is there a cap for total damage resistance? i remember it was capped in coh

thx heroes and villains

Archived Post · December 2009

Might answer both questions in one.

There's no cap because there are diminishing returns. Your 60% resistance isn't 60% mitigation.

The formula is 1 / (1 + x) for resists, so your 60% gives you an x of 0.6.

1 / (1 + 0.6) or 1 / 1.6 = 0.625. That's the % of damage that's getting through, so your total mitigation is 37.5%.

An easy way to get a general ballpark of where you might be is to think of 100% resistance. 1 / (1 + 1.0) equals 1 / 2, or 50% mitigation. 200% would be 1 / 3, etc. I'm sure there are threads out there that say this better, but hey.

Archived Post · December 2009

That doesn't seem right... /= |

Archived Post · December 2009

XFracture wrote:

That doesn't seem right... /= |

I'm a fan of the slanted divisor.

Same difference.

Archived Post · December 2009

I've always wondered why they don't show us the 37.5% rather than the 60%. For the casual non-number cruncher player it feels a little misleading to me.

Seeing 50% and being able to eyeball it knowing you'll take half damage is alot easier to think about than having to go through say:

+70% resistance

1 / ( 1 + .70) >> .588 >> 1 - .588 >> .412 >> 41.2% real damage reduction

which is really reducing damage by a bit more than a third.

Archived Post · December 2009

Thats because its not right.

there is a bug currently with Invulnereability where it shows an increase in damage reduction from +damage powers (and also superstat stats+

these abilities do increase invulnerability mitigation however its not anywere close to the amount listed.

The base Invulnerability % is a true mitigation as in if it reads 30% (not including the bug super stats and powers bumping it) an attack would do 30% less damage to you

gear scales on the 1/1.x where x = your gear defense value

And its layered so say you get hit with a 1000 point attack
your inv rating is 35
your gear defense is 25%

the Invuln would take the attack to 650 - whatever damage soak you have lets say 50

so now the attack is down to 600 this is applied to your gear defense value

600/1.25 = 480 this is the damage you would take from a 1000 point attack

total mitigation 52% if all values were true mitigation the value would be 65% (including the damage soak)

Archived Post · December 2009

so who is right? ^^
if i understand what dynamo says, u have disminishing returns on gear, but not on invu?

Archived Post · December 2009

I can't say I disagree with you Dynamo since I have never used Invulnerability or can claim I know how it's calculated. My concern is in regard to gear defense, as you yourself showed.

1 / (1 + %)

So for that last tidbit you showed

600 / (1 + 25%) = 480

What I'm saying is in this particular formula, the damage was reduced by 120, which is a reduction by 20%.

I would rather the tooltip show me a 20% damage reduction than what I would consider to be a misleading +25% resistance.

It's much easier to say my damage was reduced by 600 x .2 = 120 damage, but that's just the way I look at it.

Edit: Just thought I'd also add that if Invulnerability is showing true damage mitigation and gear defense is not, if they both showed true mitigation it would make things alot easier for players to understand. Again, that's just my opinion though.

Archived Post · December 2009

I agree spell I would favor the only display true mitigation numbers as well things like shield rank 3 saying they reduce damage 360% just confuses everyone especially considering that invuln reports true mitigation.

Archived Post · December 2009

Blue Laser on live does 868 total dmg to my lvl 25 alt. (Did they change this to scale with level?)

He has invuln with 33% resistance.

His equipment provides 18% resistance.

Total resistance of 51%.

Damage done 472 (868) = 54.377% or 45.623% mitigation.

With just equipment = 733 (868) = 84.444% or 15.556% mitigation.

With just Invuln, no equipment and thus a 24% mitigation rate, I get 614 (868) = 70.737% or 29.263% (<<-- That threw me for a loop).

These numbers don't really jive with what was being said earlier. THAT'S why I said "that doesn't seem right."

Archived Post · December 2009

XFracture wrote:

These numbers don't really jive with what was being said earlier. THAT'S why I said "that doesn't seem right."

Ah, I thought you were correcting my punctuation. The brief post confused me.

Regardless, all I have is the formula the devs have told us is "how resistance works". I have no direct knowledge of whether Invulnerability is bugged or anything else, just the math that was provided back in closed beta. Since there has been no notice on a change in the formula, my best guess is that testing results which say otherwise are either an error in testing, a bug in the resist power being tested, or both. Skewed figures should be reported and posted.

Archived Post · December 2009

XFracture wrote:

Blue Laser on live does 868 total dmg to my lvl 25 alt. (Did they change this to scale with level?)

He has invuln with 33% resistance.

His equipment provides 18% resistance.

Total resistance of 51%.

Damage done 472 (868) = 54.377% or 45.623% mitigation.

With just equipment = 733 (868) = 84.444% or 15.556% mitigation.

With just Invuln, no equipment and thus a 24% mitigation rate, I get 614 (868) = 70.737% or 29.263% (<<-- That threw me for a loop).

These numbers don't really jive with what was being said earlier. THAT'S why I said "that doesn't seem right."

I'm going a little out of order here so bare with me

With just equipment = 733 (868) = 84.444% or 15.556% mitigation.

This one is easily explained with defense formula we've explained earlier, but I will rewrite it to see what the reduction is.

( Base Damage - Received Damage ) / Received Damage = Equipment Resistance

( 868 - 733 ) / 733 >>> 135 / 733 >>> 0.184 which rounded down would be the 18% resistance.

They've always been a little funny with rounding, but this one is on point.

I see your figures for the % damage reduction of Invulnerability, but you failed to mention the fixed damage that is reduced by invulnerability, so I would ask you hop on your character for a second and check the tooltip so I can include the correct number in what I'm trying to figure.

However I did manage to work backwards to derive what the number could be, although its not making sense comparing with and without equipment. Without equipment has less room for craziness I think, so I will at least post that one. I'm gonna work backwards here so bare with me.

With just Invuln, no equipment and thus a 24% mitigation rate, I get 614 (868) = 70.737% or 29.263% (<<-- That threw me for a loop).

Working with this one, here's the general formula for how Invulnerability should work.

(Base damage - Fixed Absorption) x ( 1 - Percent Reduction ) = Total Damage Reduced

( 868 - Fixed Absorption ) x (1 - 0.24 ) = 614
( 868 - Fixed Absorption ) x ( 0.76 ) = 614
( 868 - Fixed Absorption ) = 808
- Fixed Absorption = -60
Fixed Absorption = 60

Playing it forward, we see this happening.

868 - 60 = 808 ( Before we even begin to calculate damage, Invulnerability reduces damage by a fixed amount)

808 x .24 = 194 ( After we consider the fixed damage, we see consider the 24%, which cuts 194 damage )

808 - 194 = 614

I went ahead on the Test Server just to make sure it's cleared up, so here we go~
After doing testing on the Test Server, either Invulnerability is bugged and is absorbing too much damage, or the tooltip is wrong and is not showing the correct amount

Just Invulnerability: +9.1% resistance; absorbs 19 damage

Laser deals 1121 (1287) damage to me, so let's take a look at what happened

1287 - 19 = 1268

1268 x .091 = 115

1268 - 115 = 1153

This is how much damage I should be taking, but I was taking 1121, so I worked backwards to see what the number should be. Using the same formula I used earlier, I have this:

(Base damage - Fixed Absorption) x ( 1 - Percent Reduction ) = Total Damage Reduced

( 1287 - Fixed Absorption ) x (1 - 0.091 ) = 1121
( 1287 - Fixed Absorption ) x ( 0.909 ) = 1121
( 1287 - Fixed Absorption ) = 1233
- Fixed Absorption = -54
Fixed Absorption = 54

So unless I'm super crazy, the damage is being reduced by 54 and not 19. Playing it forward we see this:

1287 - 54 = 1233 (So before we see the % reduction, Invulnerability reduced it by 54)

1233 x 0.091 = 112 (This is how much my incoming damage is reduced by)

1233 - 112 = 1121

This also holds true with my equipment on, so let's see what it would look like according to the tooltip first.

Invulnerability: +9.1% resistance; absorbs 19 damage also +17% equipment resistance

Laser did 962 (1287) damage, so let's see what happens

1287 - 19 = 1268

1268 x 0.091 = 115

1268 - 115 = 1153

Now that the Invulnerability is done, we apply my equipment

( damage ) / ( 1 + %resistance ) = received damage

( 1153 ) / ( 1 + 0.17 ) = 985

This number was too high, as we see I received 962 damage, but let's see what would happen if we use that 54 I got earlier.

1287 - 54 = 1233

1233 x 0.091 = 112

1233 - 112 = 1121

( 1121 ) / ( 1 + 0.17 ) = 958

*This 958 number is a little special, so I'll clarify below*

Using my rewritten equation earlier to see what this % should be, it was actually 16.5% resistance, which the tooltip is rounding up to 17%, if I were to use that instead...

( 1121 ) / ( 1 + 0.165 ) = 962

So the numbers are adding up for me.

XFacture, could you go back and check your numbers for equipment + invulnerability's % and fixed damage reductions? I've tried working through your numbers and its not coming out quite right. If your equipment was giving you 16% instead of 18% it would be right, but I think because of your equipment having STR and CON the fixed absorption number is different when your equipmentis on and off, so I can't quite pinpoint the discrepancies

Also if my numbers are crazy wrong, someone feel free to come in since I'm unfamiliar with defensive passives nor am I the number cruncher I used to be.

Archived Post · December 2009

Not sure if it's true, but a number of people using invuln have told me the flat reduction comes AFTER the % reduction, part of what makes it appear overpowered since it's effectively multiplied by the mitigation factor.

Archived Post · December 2009

cool i'm happy i bringed the question ^^
thx for the theorycrafting and the tests
i'm goin to stack more CON than gear defence
another question, i'm bad at maths :

a 25% from gear is an actual 20% flat reduction ( from the maths )
that's allready lower than what i tought, but, if it's calculated after invu and invu is flat dam, so actually my 20% should be multiplied by (1-invu%). with a 40% flat reduc, my 25% from tooltip come down to 16%

am i right?
anyboy knows if invu is calculated before or after gear?
thx so much for the help

Archived Post · December 2009

if x is gear def and y invu def, does the maths will be? :
total def = x * (1 - y ) / ( 1 + x ) + y

Archived Post · December 2009

bump for the theorycrafters

About the Damage resistance

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