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Founding X-Men revealed to be gay (spoilers)

tigerofcachticetigerofcachtice Posts: 551 Arc User
edited April 2015 in Off Topic
This is no big deal and the story broke a few days ago, but I got the comic and thought others might be curious.

Iceman, Bobby Drake, has been revealed to be gay. Nothing wrong with that, but there's some context to this.

1. It's not the regular Iceman, it's the young Iceman from the past - the young X-Men of the past were timewarped to the present. Story-wise, it's because present Beast wanted to remind present Cyclops of their roots. It's convoluted.

2. All this may be irrelevant in 2 months time - there is some sort of retcon coming to the Marvel Universe with a crossover, already scheduled in 2 months time. This may be an attempt to grab headlines (example here) with no real consequence.

3. The writer here is Brian Michael Bendis - he has a reputation. I'm not going to comment on this, but others have mentioned, Bobby Drake dated Shadowcat/Kitty Pryde in the past. They even mention that specifically in the comic.

I mention this as many of us are comic fans, but there's just so many titles now, and our friends still see us as the subject matter experts. Just sharing information. If you care to, feel free to discuss, there are actually more angles here.
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Comments

  • joybuzzerxjoybuzzerx Posts: 882 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Now that just sounds like a headlines grab. Not only has he never shown interest in a guy, he out right told North Star...no.
  • biffsmackwellbiffsmackwell Posts: 4,739 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    joybuzzerx wrote: »
    Now that just sounds like a headlines grab. Not only has he never shown interest in a guy, he out right told North Star...no.

    That's because, according to the comics, the original Bobby Drake had to choose between being gay or being a superhero.

    Stop rolling your eyes, that's basically what they said.
    biffsig.jpg
  • joybuzzerxjoybuzzerx Posts: 882 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    That's because, according to the comics, the original Bobby Drake had to choose between being gay or being a superhero.

    Stop rolling your eyes, that's basically what they said.


    Well it's still an eye roll moment. :p They didn't even get the excuse of Mystique or Karma (believe it was her) or others, Bobby went after others. Movies it was Rogue. He went after Firestar in the cartoon. Polaris! Kitty!

    He may not have wanted a sensation/headline, he knew he'd get it.
  • jonsillsjonsills Posts: 6,315 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Remember that the X-Men first appeared in 1963. Comics time stretches, but the fact remains that the original Bobby Drake could not come out of the closet - you thought society hated and feared mutants? That's nothing to how they felt about gays! (Hell, until the DSM-III came out in 1980, homosexuality was still listed as a psychiatric disorder!)
    I'm not going to comment on this, but others have mentioned, Bobby Drake dated Shadowcat/Kitty Pryde in the past. They even mention that specifically in the comic.
    And in the same panel, Jean replies, "Yes, and she no longer resides on the planet Earth!" (And you thought you had bad breakups...)
    joybuzzerx wrote:
    He went after Firestar in the cartoon.
    He also hung out with Firestar and Spider-Man in cartoons, and his powers manifested in infancy, not puberty. I wouldn't cite that cartoon for much of anything.

    (Canonically, Firestar became a nun for a time. Not a lot of dating there...)
    "Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"

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  • joybuzzerxjoybuzzerx Posts: 882 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    jonsills wrote: »
    Remember that the X-Men first appeared in 1963. Comics time stretches, but the fact remains that the original Bobby Drake could not come out of the closet - you thought society hated and feared mutants? That's nothing to how they felt about gays! (Hell, until the DSM-III came out in 1980, homosexuality was still listed as a psychiatric disorder!)


    And in the same panel, Jean replies, "Yes, and she no longer resides on the planet Earth!" (And you thought you had bad breakups...)


    He also hung out with Firestar and Spider-Man in cartoons, and his powers manifested in infancy, not puberty. I wouldn't cite that cartoon for much of anything.

    (Canonically, Firestar became a nun for a time. Not a lot of dating there...)


    The point is, there was no setup for it. None of the other tricks they did of "we had her say meh to every guy when the other girls would drool over him" (like they did with Karma).

    In everything he's been portrayed in, he hasnt been gay. I mean, if they wanted to make an original member gay, Beast in Ultimate would at least have you go...well he was in Ultimate.
  • doomedluke1doomedluke1 Posts: 118 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    I don't really know what to say about this. I sometimes avoid commenting such topics because, as a gay man myself, I'm sensitive to some types of comments. The fact is I don't like drastic changes in a character out from the blue. Bobby never showed any signs of being gay, and doing things like this to a character gives the impression someone's sexuality may change at will or over time - something I don't believe it's true. It's clearly something that wasn't thought before, but made up now for some reason - be it getting headlines or being pro-LGBT.

    Northstar always was one of my favorite chars. I liked to know there was a gay Wolverine from another dimension, since he's kind of the epitome of masculinity in comics, I liked to know the Ultimate Colossus was gay (even though I've never read any Ultimate comics), and liked to know the original Green Lantern was being rebooted as a gay guy too. Because it means they've always been gay in their realities. But I'm not sure I like a character I've known my entire life as a straight man being all of a sudden "revealed" gay. I know there are closeted men who spend their entire lives in the closet, but why wouldn't we know of that? Was Bobby hiding it from us? Does he have Deadpool's ability to break the 4th wall? :confused:

    I don't follow comics anymore for at least a decade other than reading about in the web, so I don't know how this is being explained and how it's being treated. But I think, if Marvel is really wanting to be gay-friendly and to make Iceman gay, they should mantain this after this coming reboot. Then I may think it wasn't just for getting some attention.

    Well, I can't say I wouldn't like to know Beast was gay though. In his human form he's handsome and the kind of stocky man I like... :biggrin:
  • meedacthunistmeedacthunist Posts: 2,961 Arc User1
    edited April 2015
    http://www.dorkly.com/post/73999/marvel-revealed-iceman-is-gay-and-it-makes-complete-sense

    http://marvel.com/universe/Talk:Iceman#Is_Iceman_Gay.3F

    http://www.bleedingcool.com/2015/04/21/tomorrow-an-original-x-men-will-be-outed-as-gay/

    It's not really that out of the blue. It's basically legalisation of fanon.

    Saw it coming, really.

    Can't say it was a needed change and I have no opinion, but totally saw it coming. Or something like that.
    Well, I can't say I wouldn't like to know Beast was gay though. In his human form he's handsome and the kind of stocky man I like... :biggrin:

    Unlikely. Recently he fell with some girl.


    Also... More spoilers.

    Eva Bell still needs pants. No, really. This skirt is too short. But it seems like she no longer has crush on Cyclops.

    Kitty Pryde is engaged to Peter Quill. Also, she's now cosmic-powered.

    Magneto has human girlfriend. That's it - not a mutant. Oh, and he was right.

    Oh, and X-23 and original Angel are an item. And original Angel is now cosmic powered as well.
  • meedacthunistmeedacthunist Posts: 2,961 Arc User1
    edited April 2015
    I must say I'm kinda worried about the incoming crossover. Or rather how many changes will be reverted to the holy status quo.

    I wouldn't mind some reverting being done to this mess called "Spiderverse", but I really hope nobody will have a great idea of remaking Magneto into a villain (again), or getting rid of female Thor (albeit this one is unlikely shince her book sells much better than old Thor books), or Captain Marvel, or Miss Marvel.

    But then, I've survived Megatron renouncing his beliefs and wearing an Autobot badge, I can survive everything else comic books can throw my way.
  • joybuzzerxjoybuzzerx Posts: 882 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    They're not going to revert it, but hell if they're going to start with turning fanfic into canon, let's get a Wolverine & Sabertooth thing going and make them brothers as we're at it. :)

    No, this goes along with all their other ideas. They want to add diversity (which is good) but use it riding on the name of an already established character (which is bad).

    Are we all of a sudden going to see movie Iceman with a guy? No, he'll be with Rogue or Kitty. Leaving the fans at the next movie going "Why is the gay guy with a girl?"
  • meedacthunistmeedacthunist Posts: 2,961 Arc User1
    edited April 2015
    joybuzzerx wrote: »
    Are we all of a sudden going to see movie Iceman with a guy? No, he'll be with Rogue or Kitty. Leaving the fans at the next movie going "Why is the gay guy with a girl?"

    As X-movies are owned by Fox, Marvel couldn't care less about what's happening there. Actually, often it looks like Marvel is trying to sabotage X-movies franchise at least enough to get it back.
    They already have policy of not introducing too many new mutants into books so they can't be used in movies. Which basically means recycling old characters again and again.

    This entire thing with Drake being gay is hilarious, because for once it was not a pubicity bait, as it was not hinted long before release. This time making it into a sensation is entirely on media outlets with no help from Marvel.

    But, whatever. Less teenage romances, more facepunchin!
    Or fascist UN opressing mutants. Which again ends in facepunchin.
  • nephtnepht Posts: 6,883 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    joybuzzerx wrote: »
    Well it's still an eye roll moment. :p They didn't even get the excuse of Mystique or Karma (believe it was her) or others, Bobby went after others. Movies it was Rogue. He went after Firestar in the cartoon. Polaris! Kitty!

    He may not have wanted a sensation/headline, he knew he'd get it.

    Firestar.jpg

    I have a theory Firestar is a drag queen >_>

    Why cant he be like the Human Torch and just flirt with anything ( that dude even tried to chat up a giant bug @_@" )

    Vote Human Torch 2016
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  • itsbrou#5396 itsbrou Posts: 1,777 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    It will take more than that pander to get my crisp gay money.
    Brou in Cryptic games.
  • jonsillsjonsills Posts: 6,315 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    gradii wrote: »
    Mutants may one day replace humans, but who's to say that can't happen naturally and peacefully?
    Puts me in mind of a line from Spider Robinson's novel Stardance. Spoilers ahead....
    .
    .

    .

    .
    .
    .
    .
    The dance troupe dispatched to Saturn with the UN diplomats as translators have just revealed that they've been joined with a spacegoing symbiont which has left them mutually telepathic, independent of any external need so long as they have sunlight, and able to move freely through space and react to potential danger at a speed far greater than that of a non-augmented human. One of the diplomats, an ideologue selected for political reasons, has already tried to sabotage the mission so he can claim the supply of symbiont for his country (after defeating him, the Stardancers explained in great detail how stupid his idea was); another then tries to simply kill them all, as in his view humanity is not ready for this advance. You see, one of the things that makes a right-angle structure unnecessary for psychological survival in space is the ability to conceptualize in a full three dimensions, without reference to an up or down, and this is a fairly rare ability - at the moment.

    Dr. Chen notes, rather bitterly, "Even if I had another hundred years, I could never learn to see as you do."

    To which Linda replies, "And what of your grandchildren, Chen Ten Li?"

    Yes, Erik, at the moment mutants are heavily outnumbered, and a despised minority - but as Reed Richards said back in the Sixties, the rate of human mutation is growing; more and more powered individuals are being born all the time. What of your grandchildren, Erik Lensherr?
    "Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"

    - David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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  • biffsmackwellbiffsmackwell Posts: 4,739 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    It will take more than that pander to get my crisp gay money.

    Brou you just won the day.
    joybuzzerx wrote: »
    Are we all of a sudden going to see movie Iceman with a guy? No, he'll be with Rogue or Kitty. Leaving the fans at the next movie going "Why is the gay guy with a girl?"

    That depends, are we all of a sudden going to see movie X-Men stick to any sort of source material? No, not until their movies start doing so bad that they throw their hands up in the air and say "Help me Marvel-Wan Kenobi, you're my only hope."
    biffsig.jpg
  • joybuzzerxjoybuzzerx Posts: 882 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    That depends, are we all of a sudden going to see movie X-Men stick to any sort of source material? No, not until their movies start doing so bad that they throw their hands up in the air and say "Help me Marvel-Wan Kenobi, you're my only hope."

    We'll have a gay character who is played as straight. That may not go over well.
  • meedacthunistmeedacthunist Posts: 2,961 Arc User1
    edited April 2015
    joybuzzerx wrote: »
    We'll have a gay character who is played as straight. That may not go over well.

    No, we won't.

    It's not the same character because it's not the same continuity between movies and comic books.

    Marvel writers aren't really obligated to pay any attention to what Fox does or what movie fans are thinking (when they don't own X-movies, that's it. I bet they'd be more interested if X-movies were owned by Disney, lol).

    Also, at this point it isn't even clear if it's still original Bobby Drake. Or if he ever was original Bobby Drake.

    It was hinted few times that Mc Coy broke timespace taking X-Men from the past and there might be all sort of wrong created by him that way. Recently it was hinted in Black Vortex.
    And Eva Bell basically undid her daughter and husband with butterfly effect because she timejumped one time too much, so...

    These teenage X-Men might be in fact their alternate versions.

    Teenage Jean Grey already has slightly different powerset and Angel is cosmic-powered.

    And in Marvel's multiverse new realities are split even with smallest changes.
  • joybuzzerxjoybuzzerx Posts: 882 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    No, we won't.

    It's not the same character because it's not the same continuity between movies and comic books.

    Marvel writers aren't really obligated to pay any attention to what Fox does or what movie fans are thinking (when they don't own X-movies, that's it. I bet they'd be more interested if X-movies were owned by Disney, lol).

    Also, at this point it isn't even clear if it's still original Bobby Drake. Or if he ever was original Bobby Drake.

    It was hinted few times that Mc Coy broke timespace taking X-Men from the past and there might be all sort of wrong created by him that way. Recently it was hinted in Black Vortex.
    And Eva Bell basically undid her daughter and husband with butterfly effect because she timejumped one time too much, so...

    These teenage X-Men might be in fact their alternate versions.


    We'll see, but at this point it's not considered alternate universe Bobby. It's considered Bobby from the past.

    Hinted or not and now that they've done it, there will always be the "Bobby's gay as show here" which can easily lead to non comicbook fans having a field day with it.
  • meedacthunistmeedacthunist Posts: 2,961 Arc User1
    edited April 2015
    gradii wrote: »
    Starscream musta been thrilled.


    Starscream's now democratically elected ruler of free Cybertron.

    Oh, wait...

    "Democratically" elected ruler of "free" Cybertron.

    Now it's fixed.
  • nephtnepht Posts: 6,883 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Meh the Xmen are behind the times. A founder member of what I call Conquer 2.0 ( long story ask Caliga ) used to be a dude. We totally out gay the Xmen.
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  • biffsmackwellbiffsmackwell Posts: 4,739 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    nepht wrote: »
    Meh the Xmen are behind the times. A founder member of what I call Conquer 2.0 ( long story ask Caliga ) used to be a dude. We totally out gay the Xmen.

    And I still think you should run a super group called the Ex Men.
    biffsig.jpg
  • nephtnepht Posts: 6,883 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    And I still think you should run a super group called the Ex Men.

    I would have but that SG is already in game :D
    nepht_siggy_v6_by_nepht-dbbz19n.jpg
    Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
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  • taintedmesstaintedmess Posts: 446 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    As X-movies are owned by Fox, Marvel couldn't care less about what's happening there. Actually, often it looks like Marvel is trying to sabotage X-movies franchise at least enough to get it back.
    They already have policy of not introducing too many new mutants into books so they can't be used in movies. Which basically means recycling old characters again and again.

    The problem is there are no shortage of mutants with little to no background that coudl have been introduced or they could have used one of the already existing gay mutants to explore what ever agenda/ark there looking at exploring. They could have brought Anole back into the books he's a fun character.
    This entire thing with Drake being gay is hilarious, because for once it was not a pubicity bait, as it was not hinted long before release. This time making it into a sensation is entirely on media outlets with no help from Marvel.

    There may have been no "help" from marvel but they new fine well how it would play out. There was no chance in hell one of the original x-men suddenly being outed as gay was going to end any other way than a media circus.
  • meedacthunistmeedacthunist Posts: 2,961 Arc User1
    edited April 2015
    There may have been no "help" from marvel but they new fine well how it would play out. There was no chance in hell one of the original x-men suddenly being outed as gay was going to end any other way than a media circus.

    But then it would be like writer not writing what he intended just because of public reaction. Which would be self-censoring because some people on the net you might not even care about could do something...
  • iamruneiamrune Posts: 965 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    But then it would be like writer not writing what he intended just because of public reaction. Which would be self-censoring because some people on the net you might not even care about could do something...

    I have to call BS on that one.. I generally think Bendis can be a pretty good writer, especially of Dialogue, but he also has issues with continuity, and prefers to ignore or rewrite it to his whim, if not outright ignore it due to not wanting to take the time to learn it.

    This is a case of Bendis doing whatever the hell he wants as a writer regardless of established cannon about the character, simply because he wants too, and editorial is letting him get away with it.

    Jim Shooter would have shot Bendis down on this, not because he's anti-gay [he's not], but because Bendis didn't establish it in advance with any sort of foreshadowing first.

    Joke bits and fannon notwithstanding, there is no serious foreshadowing that Drake has been secretly pining for some guys in all these decades of comics.

    In short, I don't think the writer should have a free hand to just write whatever story he feels the need to tell, not due to public reaction, but due to the constraints of the setting that he agreed to write within in the first place.


    If I got the editorial thumbs-up to write a story in-cannon about Spider-man where he's basically nothing like the Spider-man we all know and love, then everyone who reads it is well within their rights to dismiss it out of hand as "Not really Spider-man".

    You know, like when he somehow knocked-out the one-time Galactus Herald, Firelord. [Although that event was retconned later as being due to his unknowing power-up from being the host of the Uniforce, Captain Universe, which occurred in Spider-man issues that came out a few months later, I think?]
  • ashensnowashensnow Posts: 2,048 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    I guess he never really loved Lorna after all.

    'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
  • sistersiliconsistersilicon Posts: 1,687 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    tumblr_nlq9dy69ca1sqep2mo1_1280.png

    :wink:
    Choose your enemies carefully, because they will define you / Make them interesting, because in some ways they will mind you
    They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
  • joybuzzerxjoybuzzerx Posts: 882 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    The problem is there are no shortage of mutants with little to no background that coudl have been introduced or they could have used one of the already existing gay mutants to explore what ever agenda/ark there looking at exploring. They could have brought Anole back into the books he's a fun character.



    There may have been no "help" from marvel but they new fine well how it would play out. There was no chance in hell one of the original x-men suddenly being outed as gay was going to end any other way than a media circus.


    Exactly, and Bendis knew it'd get publicity. The editors who allowed it, knew as well.

    They did it for publicity in saying one of the ORIGINAL X-MEN was gay. They can't say an X-Men, as that's been done with Northstar. So, the new hype is original member.
  • meedacthunistmeedacthunist Posts: 2,961 Arc User1
    edited April 2015
    iamrune wrote: »
    This is a case of Bendis doing whatever the hell he wants as a writer regardless of established cannon about the character, simply because he wants too, and editorial is letting him get away with it.

    Jim Shooter would have shot Bendis down on this, not because he's anti-gay [he's not], but because Bendis didn't establish it in advance with any sort of foreshadowing first.

    Jim Shooter would have shot probably majority of current writers and artists.

    http://www.jimshooter.com/2011/07/storytelling-rant.html

    But I still think it wasn't a case of fishing for media hype, but just Bendis being his usual... random Bendis. A.k.a. "do whatever you fancy" school of writing. :wink:

    After all, Dazzler's new angsty image also was his idea.
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