Champions Complete

navar

Hey there...just starting to try out Champions, and I have noticed a book called Champions Complete. I have ordered Champions Complete, Champions Powers and Champions Villains (Group).

My question is, with these three books, will our group have what we need to play Champions, or will we need the 6th edition to go along with those three books?

bulgarex

The essential Sixth Edition rules are in Champions Complete, just with the detailed clarifications and examples pared down from the big 6E rulebooks. Strictly speaking, that book alone would be enough to play the game, but you would need to build your own superpowers and NPCs.

Champions Powers and the Champions Villains trilogy go a very long way to doing that building for you. Unless you feel you need a ready-made setting (which is what the various Champs Universe source books provide you), you should be pretty well set.

The only other thing you might consider is the Hero Designer character generating software. It greatly simplifies and speeds up chargen. But if you're starting out with relatively simple builds (which I would recommend), it falls into the "helpful but not essential" category.

navar

Thank you very much. So am I to assume there are no character sheets in Champions Complete? If not, is there a web site where I can print them out? Thanks again.

Edit: I believe I misinterpreted your last paragraph. I assume you meant more along the lines of doing the math for saving throws, accuracy adjustments and general stats? If that is the case, my previous experience with D&D and Heroes/Villains Unlimited should help me there. In any case, thanks again for any clarifications.

pantagruel01

therealwraiven wrote: »

Edit: I believe I misinterpreted your last paragraph. I assume you meant more along the lines of doing the math for saving throws, accuracy adjustments and general stats?

Probably more about character building. The Hero system thinks paying 50 * 1.25 / 1.75 (=35, due to rules for rounding) for an ability is a perfectly normal and straightforward thing to do, and may expect you to do so multiple times on a single character. It's the kind of thing where a spreadsheet is handy, and a spreadsheet with a bunch of drop-downs for reference on costs is even more handy.

bulgarex

therealwraiven wrote: »

Thank you very much. So am I to assume there are no character sheets in Champions Complete? If not, is there a web site where I can print them out? Thanks again.

Edit: I believe I misinterpreted your last paragraph. I assume you meant more along the lines of doing the math for saving throws, accuracy adjustments and general stats? If that is the case, my previous experience with D&D and Heroes/Villains Unlimited should help me there. In any case, thanks again for any clarifications.

pantagruel01 wrote: »

Probably more about character building. The Hero system thinks paying 50 * 1.25 / 1.75 (=35, due to rules for rounding) for an ability is a perfectly normal and straightforward thing to do, and may expect you to do so multiple times on a single character. It's the kind of thing where a spreadsheet is handy, and a spreadsheet with a bunch of drop-downs for reference on costs is even more handy.

No supers character sheets as such, although there are guidelines for character archetypes with certain common abilities, and for Character Point totals and Active Point caps depending on the power level of game you want to run.

And pantagruel has the right idea. HERO chargen uses math extensively to find the final CP cost of your customized Power constructs. Characters also have a wide variety of Characteristics, such as Strength, Dexterity, or Intelligence, which also cost points. For some genres, such as modern-day adventure, there isn't much calculation involved; but for supers, who can have Characteristics far above normal human level, and many unique Powers, it can get a lot more involved (not difficult, just time-intensive). Hero Designer does that math for you, reducing chargen to a fraction of what it might otherwise take. Good spreadsheets can also help, although I'm not aware of comprehensive ones yet for the Sixth Edition of the game (they're usually fan-produced and posted for free in various places).

therealwraiven: The above also relates to your question. There are "character packs" sold for Hero Designer with the full character sheets for supers and powers from most of the extant books, which you can print out using Hero Designer, and even modify to suit your preferences.

If that's not appealing to you, note that many of the books, including all the 6E ones, are available in PDF, so you could print from those. (Legally, of course, that would just be one printed copy for personal use.)

navar

We ended up going with Heroes Unlimited. We ended up going this rout because we didn't much care for the idea of only using D6 as the only method of figuring up stats and rolls. Thanks for all your help, guys.

mirrormirortasha

Ugh..groan...these books are criminally expensive. I was just in my local comic store the other day where they have a fairly impressive collection of Heroes books and those new hardcover Villain Solo books??? They look cool and seem to have interesting info....but OMG....$40-60 just for 1 book that has only 1/2 to 1/3 of the info???

bulgarex

I sympathize with your distress, but that price range really is the standard for tabletop RPG books these days, particularly hard cover with color illustrations (which many of the fan base had long clamored for).

If it makes a difference to you, you can buy PDF versions of the books for nearly half-off the hard copy price. Or if you buy the hard copy from the Hero Games website store, they bundle in the PDF for no additional charge. Also note that the Hero Games store offers books written for the previous (Fifth) edition of their rule set at half their original cover price, hard copy or PDF. Many books detailing the setting fall into that category.

Finally, it's not like each book in the Villains trilogy sets out to give you only "1/3 the info." It gives you a hundred or more villains who are grouped according to particular categories. Most tabletop gamers use pre-written NPCs the way they want to, regardless of what their official background is. It's only lore completists who want them for that purpose.

gaarafrednorrisp

Ha. Someone hasn't experienced the pain of a new DnD Edition.

mirrormirortasha

gaarafrednorrisp wrote: »

Ha. Someone hasn't experienced the pain of a new DnD Edition.

Actually I am with a group of friends irl who do play this new edition and even game tested it for a while. So yes I already had to give up some for the PLayer's HB.

gaarafrednorrisp

;D Lightweight. Being an addict, I drop a small fortune for every book whenever a new one is released. And that's just DnD. >_> no telling how much that, GURPs, and Pathfinder have taken from my wallet.

navar

We just started Heroes Unlimited. Small fortune spent there as well, but from what I can tell, well worth it. Very comprehensive and best of all, they use a full set of dice, not just six sided dice. I bought Champions Complete and one of the Power Books, will never use them. Spent the cash for them and am now about to resell it online.

I have created an Energy based blaster type character on the game, and it makes me wish so much that this game had an energy based ranged power set. Reminds me of City of Heroes...sigh, the memories.

bulgarex

I always found only needing one kind of dice to be a plus for HERO System. Just goes to show everyone has their own tastes.

meedacthunist

bulgarex wrote: »

I always found only needing one kind of dice to be a plus for HERO System. Just goes to show everyone has their own tastes.

Heh. Me too.

The one thing I don't like in Mutants&Masterminds is, despite loving the entire rest of it, they don't use 3d6 as a base roll.

I happend to like bell curve probability distribution.

chaelk

also check out the Hero games website, there's a whole section of free downloads.

maps, character sheets, npc's, stories, space sector generator.

navar

meedacthunist wrote: »

Heh. Me too.

The one thing I don't like in Mutants&Masterminds is, despite loving the entire rest of it, they don't use 3d6 as a base roll.

I happend to like bell curve probability distribution.

To each their own to be sure. I guess I am just stuck in the old school way of PnP gaming.

bulgarex

Fair enough. Although Champions PnP has been using d6 exclusively since it debuted in 1981. Very few games are older school.

I still remember the bemused look on my dad's face the first time I showed him a d20. :rolleyes:

navar

bulgarex wrote: »

Fair enough. Although Champions PnP has been using d6 exclusively since it debuted in 1981. Very few games are older school.

I still remember the bemused look on my dad's face the first time I showed him a d20. :rolleyes:

Well, I guess I meant more D&D old school, heh. And yeah, I remember my first reaction to all the different dice, probably a lot like your dad's first reaction, haha.