IMO, if they think a pair of goggles or an eye mask is a way to retain players, they're a bit daft. I kinda see the monthly items as a perk, and god knows after all of the changes gold could use one or 2 of those that's exclusive.
In game, I am @EvilTaco. Happily killing purple gang members since May 2008. RIP Caine
Bring back the Frigging Gold Subscriber Get Stuff Every 100 Days Perks!
I could use Name Change Tokens.
I could use Free Retcon Tokens.
I could use Titles.
I could use Free Costume Slots.
I could use Free Character Slots.
And Stuff.
Since you've seem to give Stuff away every month anyways now.....
CHAMPIONS ONLINE:Join Date: Apr 2008
And playing by myself since Aug 2009 Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
you can equip your LTS vanguard forum title... somehow I forgot :P try user control panel.
Far as I can tell, it's through the Edit Your Avatar link - which is currently returning a completely blank page. I filed a ticket on it, but... <shrug>
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
I am actually curious as to what CO players spend all their time doing nowadays.
As far as I can tell, it goes something like this:
What is SR IV?
1. working on new costumes. customization is the thing of this game that nobody gets clsoe to touching, so seeing how far i can push the creator(and good taste) also bs'ing with the coh channel and trying to run new concepts/rerolling existing guys. and playing other video games. "sands of destruction" on the 3ds currently.
2. saints row 4, goofy game with heavy customization and superpowers. the story is tongue in cheek, and you aren't a "hero" but i definitely played it pretty hard, wish it had more expansions. always surprised that soem enterprising coh and co fans didn get together and try a total conversion with it, you dont have specific power "tracks" per se, and you cant seem to avoid collateral damage, but it is a pretty strong superpowered game.
Yes, I know, it's like another one of those threads where someone is just out to bag the game.
But in my case, I am genuinely concerned.
I am a Star Trek Online player and when I compare what happens in that game to this one, it's looks like CO is standing still while STO is 10 kilometers down the road and still running fast.
These are the issues I have:
1. No Mac compatible launcher.
From what I understand, making a Cider launcher is really easy for Devs.
And this would open up a new target audience amongst Mac specific gameplayers, since the market for Mac games is quite limited!
And Steam does exist for Mac, so releasing it on that platform is really easy once the initial Cider Launcher is deployed.
Also, my PC died and cannot be fixed, so if they want to keep me playing (and paying money!), then they need to meet this requirement.
I Suspect that it would cost more to implement a mac client and maintain it than they gain from money you spend towards the game. Don't get me wrong it could happen and for while there was a real up swing in the number of games getting mac ports/clients but i susspect what with boot camp and other means of getting windows to run on a mac that that boat has sailed.
2. Lack of new content.
I don't really see anything changing at all.
They rotate in new lockboxes, new costume options and that is about it.
No new powers/framesets, no level cap rise, no new story missions, no new maps to explore.
I'm really not convinced a game that doesn't keep adding major updates can survive competively in the market.
There eventually has to reach a point when players realize this and just jump ship to another game.
Don't get me wrong new content is alleyways welcome and i morn the fact that they seem to have abandoned any form of new content other than rampages (would love to see more serpent lantern type set ups) however there is also something to be said for making your own fun (especially as new content is only new for those first few runs then its the same old thing).
What with boot camp and other means of getting windows to run on a mac that that boat has sailed.
Mention bootcamp to a mac user and you'll be lucky to keep your head attached.
At the very least, you'll have an arm taken off!
For those that have no experience with bootcamp, I'll summarize what it requires:
1. A legal copy of Windows.
2. A secondary partition on your primary hard drive (internal) to install WindowsOS in addition to the partition that contains your MacOS.
The reason it is badly recieved is that running two seperate OS on one computer has adverse effects on the performance of the Mac, slowing it down.
And there's also resentment based on the fact that bootcamp is still Windows anyway, it is in no way integrating the programs directly into the MacOS.
Imagine having to reboot your computer to run Windows, then do it again to run MacOS.
I've tried a few of those other methods to try and run Fallout: New Vegas on my Mac, but so far, nothing I've tried has worked.
Which is why I assume if a software company doesn't make an official MacOS port, there's nothing a user can do to change that fact.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
The reason it is badly recieved is that running two seperate OS on one computer has adverse effects on the performance of the Mac, slowing it down.
*cough*. There are certainly reasons to be unfond of bootcamp, but this is utterly false. The presence of two separate boot partitions on the same hardware has absolutely no performance effect other than the extra time spent during the boot process determining which partition to boot off of, and of course the additional disk space required.
Skilpping through the thread and answering the question:
Honestly, I'd say all 3 games are in trouble. The other two just have better forward momentum
Neverwinter: Is become just big Astral Diamond farm (NWO Questionite), and Psudo Real Money Auction House gaming system (and exploit hunt) due to the game setup. Some have started to realize just how poor the random system is there, similar to that other game with the RMAH (The one they took down). Do people like the system enough to keep the game going? How long can they bait/switch power levels and classes to keep people re-purchasing powerup consumables? Last update was 2 zones, with 2 sets of repeatable quests, grinded over and over till you unlock an alert. Not really impressive
STO: Baring the recent announcement the populas had figured out the game was just one rep system after another. It's Dilithium grind online, the system is nearly too integrated for it's own good. We complain about endgame in CO, there's equally lack of game in STO-endgame.. it's just better hidden in gating and shear amount of "alerts" most of which don't run, cause they arn't "optimal returns". Updates a bit better than NW here, as along with the 'a few alerts, and a zone' they have done some episode cleanup, and new origin stories to play.
Both games are starting to lack .. game-play .. other than gaming the FTP system.
CO: Yeh, we've lost momentum, plus the trains fell in a ditch and is off the tracks. It's an uphill battle to even get the train going again.
I guess only time will tell if were being taken on a train ride to doom being milked on a way, or if there's a rocket ship and were going to the moon. Or somewhere in the middle, going further into the "MMO standard" of dailys, repeats, grind, gating and RNG servitude.
Fascinating insight into what describes the MMO genre in general. So, exactly what is changing and supposedly making players see the light after 18+ years of MMOs? Answer? Nothing, since players have always known whether they admit to it or not. But these are the same complaints I've read the last time and claims that "players are seeing the light" and such.
It often fascinates me why people get involved in MMOs then if the idea of having to work for things and build themselves up so disgusts them these days. Counter productive arguments for people that demand content and more power for their characters when they complain that they might have to work for said content and that new power they get means their old power is not as relevant anymore.
STO is getting a level cap increase? Dang, glad I'm not playing that game. Really hope we never see that in CO; what we need is more variety in usable content, not less.
Especially needed: more variety in low to mid level content, and ways to run that content again at high level and get acceptable rewards from it. Not good - don't want to make the dedicated farmers want to compete with actual low level characters - but enough to make it feel like you're not wasting your time.
Pretty much how I feel. After playing EQ and later WoW, I never understood the need for level increases. It just makes existing content even more obsolete than it needs to be, while killing replay value with alts. I'd much rather have one level cap, and new content be expanded upon it regularly.
Pretty much how I feel. After playing EQ and later WoW, I never understood the need for level increases. It just makes existing content even more obsolete than it needs to be, while killing replay value with alts. I'd much rather have one level cap, and new content be expanded upon it regularly.
I never understood this complaint.
You want more stuff and gear to go with it (aka power) which makes existing content obsolete and what you currently are using obsolete. But you don't want a level cap increase because it would make existing content obsolete and what you are using obsolete? So, explain to me the difference?
Shifting a level won't change the old content either, in fact would have the same preservation quality as just adding more power and gear on, which would have even more detrimental effect as the gear outpaces the actual ceiling, thus making it harder for anyone to actually get involved later on.
Regardless, this game was originally planned for a level 50 cap, and I doubt those plans were done away with.
Me personally I don't really care about getting higher level gear. I wouldn't mind different kinds of gear, but still at the same level as what we have now, to add to the variety of how much we can customize ourselves without effectively removing the current gear as options. CO has never seemed like a "keep building a new level on the house" style MMO, due to its genre, character creation systems, and playerbase, and I don't think that would be a good direction for the game to head in.
Also, I don't particularly care about a level cap increase.. bigger numbers are just that, bigger numbers, they guarantee nothing. What I would like to see is more content at all levels 6-40, and more importantly more interesting, faster, action-filled content, that involved NPCs that do stuff in addition to the usual "run up and melee" and "stand there and slowly fire off ranged attacks" behavior we're so familiar with.
To sum up, I'm less concerned with "bigger", and more-so with "more" and "better".
What I would like to see is more content at all levels 6-40, and more importantly more interesting, faster, action-filled content, that involved NPCs that do stuff in addition to the usual "run up and melee" and "stand there and slowly fire off ranged attacks" behavior we're so familiar with.
To sum up, I'm less concerned with "bigger", and more-so with "more" and "better".
Yup, I'm all-in on this. Ideally, it'd be great to be able to level 6-40 all in one zone, if you chose to. Then you'd have a lot more options each time, instead of hitting the same areas at the same levels every time.
I'm not a doom-sayer, but I am a realist, so I have to add that this will never happen. I'll be surprised if ever get non-instanced content again, of any size or quality; it's just not what they've chosen to do, sadly.
Taking away the option of doing Canada at level 8 was a big mistake.
Breaking the Hero Games queue so that you can't really level up that way was another mistake.
Fascinating insight into what describes the MMO genre in general. So, exactly what is changing and supposedly making players see the light after 18+ years of MMOs? Answer? Nothing, since players have always known whether they admit to it or not. But these are the same complaints I've read the last time and claims that "players are seeing the light" and such.
Don't read too much into my late night doom/light ramblings. Like you said this is hardly a unique case here. This won't be the last doom thread (heck doom threads are good, players care enough to be concerned), and that won't be the last "OMG See the light" reply.
If really need some "evidence" the particular 'see the light' doom that I'm referring too, well it isn't a fast change where everyone leaves in one day that can be pointed to (Heck more people leave do to Nerf X in Patch Y). Rather it's a slow change .. go back and look at the FTP transition and MMO graveyard. People did realize subscription game X wasn't any better than Y, and at least Y had all "their stuff" sub dropped MMO slowly died (or another cash cow seen), FTP brought in to bring in another crowd. Some games live, some died, some fast, some slow, some entire companies threw in the towel.
It's an endless ebb and flow of content and drought, doom and resurgence. New blood comes old blood leaves.
As for the power/level/work thing. I'm willing to work .. until that random arbitrary point that I decided it isn't worth my time anymore or dub the system randomly not-fair to me. Yup I'm petty, "lazy" and "want everything my way" .. but at least I'm willing to admit it :biggrin:
The reworking of the west side, scenery and mob wise, was amazing. The forcing of people to do west side and nothing else until 15? HORRIBLE. Kevin Poe is level for level the hardest boss in the entire game. Always has been. He's got a freaking life drain. AT LEVEL 10. And you can't avoid him, best you can hope for is to be one of us vets or a person with legacy nem gear, and outlevel him.
Spending a while in zone, I think I hear "Anyone wanna help with Poe?" about 10 times a day. It's almost at the point where I think Poe was someone's PnP character, and they're Mary Sue author inserting them so everyone has to see how great they were.
I'd bet frustration with Poe and how you HAVE to fight him is one of the single biggest reasons new players quit. I help when I can, and I see it happen more than I'd care to say. "That was too much of a pain in the ****, I shouldn't have to beg in zone for help when everything else was doable. Thanks for the help but F this game". You know what? They're not wrong. It's level 10-12. You *should* be able to solo that.
(heck doom threads are good, players care enough to be concerned)
No. No, they're not. I mentioned this before, we get them all the time, even though according to everyone with any say we're doing fine numbers wise and financially. On average I've got *40* people online on my friends list, and I add about 5 a day. Granted, I'm probably one of the more outgoing people in game, but still.
What doom threads do is convince new players checking on the forums that the game is in trouble, TRUE OR NOT, and makes them decide to look elsewhere. In CO's case, that's a mistake. It's easy to see the game from the eyes of an old vet, who's done all of this a million times before. But have you? There's a lot to the game. A *lot*. I was maybe 2 and a half years in when I finally got to the point where sammy's dollies was one of the only quests I'd not done.
If really need some "evidence" the particular 'see the light' doom that I'm referring too, well it isn't a fast change where everyone leaves in one day that can be pointed to (Heck more people leave do to Nerf X in Patch Y). Rather it's a slow change .. go back and look at the FTP transition and MMO graveyard. People did realize subscription game X wasn't any better than Y, and at least Y had all "their stuff" sub dropped MMO slowly died (or another cash cow seen), FTP brought in to bring in another crowd. Some games live, some died, some fast, some slow, some entire companies threw in the towel.
It's an endless ebb and flow of content and drought, doom and resurgence. New blood comes old blood leaves.
You sound like your issue is with MMOs. Every MMO ever launched has this happen. Even WoW has hemorrhaged millions of players at times, just happened in fact. If the fact that a game might lose players and slow down bothers you, don't play multiplayer. Even CoD shuts servers down for old games after a while.
I repeat, we are *not* in any risk of this happening. Direct word of mouth from a ton of people. They just hired people for the specific chunk of the studio that deals with our game. And I'm not even gonna tell you to see the light. I'm gonna take the more controversial approach. If you're annoyed at the content. If you are bored with what there is to do. Take. A. Break. Rather than doomsaying all over the forums and explaining the basics of how MMOs work to everyone, go play minecraft for a few weeks. Come back with a fresh perspective and figure out what made you love the game in the first place. Unless you can't for some reason, in which case yeah. Game's obviously working as intended.
As for the power/level/work thing. I'm willing to work .. until that random arbitrary point that I decided it isn't worth my time anymore or dub the system randomly not-fair to me. Yup I'm petty, "lazy" and "want everything my way" .. but at least I'm willing to admit it :biggrin:
I'm actually in agreement on the level cap, mostly for the reason that I want endgame instead and I'm not convinced if we get a higher level cap we'll see much of it. They'd have to rework what we have, which is actually more than people realize, or do all new endgame content. I'd love a new zone (M.O.O.N., that spells Mechanon) but not if it means having less to do with my maxed characters. That and I *really* don't want to have to level 15 characters to cap again. Especially the Squall, my poor ego can't take it.
I think the mechanics behind a level cap increase are pretty hefty, so I'm not sure we'll see it. They'd have to rework every archetype, redo all of the gear, rework the endgame, balance how many new powers we get, maybe create higher tier powers, make the new zone... That's a pretty big undertaking. I also think the community would probably lose their minds if it happened, which would probably make it all worth it. The people scrambling for new content, I imagine freaking out because alt leveling and the ATs are all worse now, and my justice gear is useless and took forever to farm, and now I have to spend 239843095870 q unslotting my mods... You think this is a doom thread? A level cap increase would have me sitting in here giggling my **** off like this:
In game, I am @EvilTaco. Happily killing purple gang members since May 2008. RIP Caine
On the other hand, if done well it could have a great impact on balancing. Just, you know. Devil's advocate. If they gotta mess with the powers anyway for end dps, they could finally sort out why 2 gun mojo has to be so much better than everything else in the game for PVE, and why Sorcery has to lag behind so far for DPS.
In game, I am @EvilTaco. Happily killing purple gang members since May 2008. RIP Caine
IMO: You can't nerf something if the power is scaling up. Everything is inherently a buff when you're raising a level cap. I just think somethings should be buffed less than others. *coughcoughboomerangtosscough*
Problem is some sets legit never got their power set pass back in the day. Those sets need HELP.
In game, I am @EvilTaco. Happily killing purple gang members since May 2008. RIP Caine
Also, I don't particularly care about a level cap increase.. bigger numbers are just that, bigger numbers, they guarantee nothing.
The way I looked at it was like this:
When I got to level 40, I often found myself saying, I wish I had enough points to add just 1 or 2 more powers.
Not necessarily to become more powerful, but just for fun.
For my main, I wanted them to use assault rifles, the laser equivalent of assault rifle (can't remember what it is called) and shotgun.
The reason for the assault rifle skills is that with the right weapon skins, I could make it look like I was using the same gun and I was switching it from projectile to laser mode.
The shotgun was just for fun, I had a thing I could equip that transformed it into a small flamethrower each time I fired it.
I think that device was removed long ago though, the only reason my main has it is because they kept it after it was taken out of the game (legacy item).
So I'm assuming I'll never be able to obtain that device on other characters.
But for more serious reasons, my tanker and my glass cannon need 1 more skill and they can't have it.
Or more advantage points, I cannot remember which.
Probably a combination of both.
So a level cap rise to 50 would give me an estimated 5 new power points to acquire some extra skills.
Either for fun or a few extra skills to augment the build.
That's why I want it.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
I can name no concrete objective sets a buff broke. Stress on objective, not "THIS IS OP! WAAAH! IT MAKES MY FAVORITE POWERS LOOK WEAK AND NOT AS GOOD AS IT!" That is subjective. Not "OMG THIS MAKES BROKEN TRYHARD CONTENT #37 TOO EASY! WAHHHH! NERFNERFNERF!. Also subjective.
You only need to look at almost any set focused on CC to see one a nerf did break. Poor Telepathy, even with a pass, still has issues, and its not alone. That's an objective fact.
Taco, Brou, and Gradii get my meaning here, as evidenced by posts. Bring other things up instead of weakening existent powers has no genuine downside. It makes people happy, it causes noi ill will. Make the AI smarter and more varied - something as simple as the Atomic Reanimators amongst the Irradiates for example,do not break anything but make you have to change up your tactics and play smarter.
The 2GM buff did kinda break balance there as far as risk:reward for melee vs range goes. After the buff 2GM with Close the Gap out-DPSe every T0 melee combo in the game, as a T0 power itself. Ofc melee powers like Laser Sword and Haymaker do manage to outparse 2GM, but they're not T0.
The 2GM buff did kinda break balance there as far as risk:reward for melee vs range goes. After the buff 2GM with Close the Gap out-DPSe every T0 melee combo in the game, as a T0 power itself. Ofc melee powers like Laser Sword and Haymaker do manage to outparse 2GM, but they're not T0.
Problem was they intended to fiddle around with more of the powers to get it in line but never got around to it. So it ended up just being left how it was.
This game may or may not have a future (as in "being left in undeath/maintenance mode forever"), but I don't think it's closing down anytime soon if that is the OP's concern.
I always find it funny that people are so pro-buff and anti-nerf when it's usually the powers that perform too well that cause the balance issues in the game.
Also, which sounds like more work: Going through and individually buffing all the various types of NPCs in the game... or nerfing a few of the overperforming powers? Which seems more likely to break something? Which seems more likely to create power creep?
Problem is, if you nerf the seriously overperforming powers to the point of being equivalent to, say, grapple gun pull? Well... That might be an issue too. Personally, I was talking about JUST if we got a level cap increase. It'd be possible to buff the weaker powers up to a good level, while raising the mobs up to make em a challenge too. Because at that point they'd be fidding with all of that anyway.
Short of that? A few powers could use a slight adjustment. My 2c on nerfs though is historically we've not had much luck getting actual balance out of them. See also: mini mines.
In game, I am @EvilTaco. Happily killing purple gang members since May 2008. RIP Caine
Problem is, if you nerf the seriously overperforming powers to the point of being equivalent to, say, grapple gun pull?
What is the rationale for doing that though? Or rather, what is the rationale for assuming that that is what would be done?
Only issue I can see with the level cap increase thing is that only mobs 41 to new level cap would see these improvements. Everything 6 to 40 would either stay the same or get thrown out of whack. I'd rather see them stick with the current level range and fix things in that level range. There's a lot of room for improvement in those 34 levels before they think of moving forward.
I'd hate to see the game turn into "Okay, the majority of your leveling is gonna take place in the messed up boring old part of the game.. but just wait until you hit level 41!"
As for the "historical record on nerfs", the solution is simple... they just need to start doing it right, and stop doing it wrong (see: Imbue).
Balance is about nerfs and buffs. You need them both. We already have a huge problem with power creep and there hasn't even been a level cap increase. How much more laughably easy does this game really need to be?
You know what would make a build better? Having more options than "Lol op" or "ew, nope".
What sounds likely to earn goodwill and not piss off players - Ruining their builds or making them better (and not in comparison to others)?
No nerfs. Period. There is no good to be found in nerfs, even if the track record wasn't godsawful (which it is)
Now, you say "Ruining their builds". The implication there would be "If a build is no longer overpoweringly effective, it is ruined". Is that really the message you're trying to push? I guess my next question would be what your definition of "ruined" is. Is a build no longer fun or interesting for you if it doesn't allow you to blast through content on ezmode? Keep in mind there are many builds that don't utilize all the game's most overpowered abilities that can still solo content that is meant to be solo'd, and with clever play can even solo parts of group content. And of course, if your build isn't overpowered, and isn't using the overpowered abilities, then why would you be worried that your build would be getting nerfed?
So, let's say they don't nerf anything, all they do is apply a universal buff to all NPCs in the game that increases their health and damage to 300% of their current amounts. That's okay then since you're not being nerfed, right? Or is that still a problem because anything that threatens a guaranteed win on all fronts is the real problem? I often feel like the "no nerfs" argument can be summed up as "I don't care what you do, so long as I still win. Make it so I can lose and I threaten to quit." The other alternative is actually much more shallow, and is "I don't want my numbers to get smaller". Of course, I'm assuming here that the game is as easy for you as it is to me... but only based on the fact that I'm a noobuilder (my expert knowledge of this game would barely fill a paragraph) who makes squishy theme builds and still finds the game too easy. For all I know you're struggling to get by.
Again, it all really hinges on your definition of "ruined". Some people around here seem to think that a build is "broken" if it can't solo all group content; some think glass cannons aren't viable if they can't solo Rampage bosses... there's quite the variety when it comes to people and their opinions on what is an acceptable power level for a build. Personally I think if you can solo the solo content, and can contribute reasonably in group content, your build is far from ruined. On the other hand if you can solo everything no matter what you build, then you end up in a situation where the majority of choices are dumb because the most efficient thing is to just make a dps character, because making anything even remotely tanky or support based only has the effect of slowing you down.
If all powers were buffed up to the level of the top-performing powers, then everybody would be able to solo group content, and everything in the game would be a steamroll fest. The only benefit to that would be that everyone would finally see what we're talking about when we say we get bored because the game is too easy...unfortunately the result of that benefit wouldn't work out too well for the game (I remember a lot of people quickly getting bored with GTA once they started using cheat codes too much; being invincible and not having to try to get the win only remains giggle-worthy for so long).
The idea of "Buff us and buff all the npcs" is inefficient (you really want to increase the dev workload based simply on the notion that smaller numbers will anger players?) and seems to ignore the fact that all balance changes are relative.
Personally, I think that all builds would benefit from a relative balancing of all powers by becoming more interesting, and by providing players with a greater diversity of viable choices. Yes, we might actually have to depend on one another a bit more in group content. Yes, there might be less "face tank the entire instance" going on. However, many many many other games exist with those realities, and they seem to be doing quite well.
I take this quote from a review that I agree with.
"customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
When most MMO's do nerfs these days they limit the amount of situations it is OP in. For example over on NW Crush "nerfed" HR's highest single target burst by making it so it only procs on one target twice however it now deals more damage meaning that if 2-3 people were to be hit by it you'd actually hit more damage than you did before in overall aoe damage. Of course he also did an actual nerf to split shot as well which was a nerf as we'd know it. (base damage reduced)
The two big things in CO that make people OP atleast in PvP are defense on gear and stats which goes of offense and cooldown reduction. Crush was about to do what he did to dodge/crit to cooldown, most likely in this change he was also going to buff arcane clarity as he did with targeting computer so that nerfing stats wouldn't end up damaging the people using the power.
But yeah if nothing was ever nerfed and always buffed we would end up in a pretty pointless situation in PvE and in PvP if you win or not would purely be down to your build.
I take this quote from a review that I agree with.
"customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
At the end of the day spinny, all that doesn't matter to the person who got hit with a nerf. All that matters is "Cryptic nerfed my build! **** THIS GAME!"
You know, at some point, it is okay for the people running the game to just say "good riddance" and move forward. Their responsibility is not to bend to every whiny little brat who gets their panties in a bunch; their primary responsibility is to make the game better, and they have to be smart about how they use their scarce resources in the pursuit of that.
And another player gone. Not worth it. Not remotely. It causes nothing but ill will. No gain to be had except in the subjective view of a few, and not worth the outrage.
And why doesn't this apply to all the people the game has lost for the explicit reason that the game is too easy? It's been a long time since this game lost people because it was too difficult.
There's a difference between "ill will" and "entitled hissy fits".
The reworking of the west side, scenery and mob wise, was amazing. The forcing of people to do west side and nothing else until 15? HORRIBLE. Kevin Poe is level for level the hardest boss in the entire game. Always has been. He's got a freaking life drain. AT LEVEL 10. And you can't avoid him, best you can hope for is to be one of us vets or a person with legacy nem gear, and outlevel him.
Spending a while in zone, I think I hear "Anyone wanna help with Poe?" about 10 times a day. It's almost at the point where I think Poe was someone's PnP character, and they're Mary Sue author inserting them so everyone has to see how great they were.
I'd bet frustration with Poe and how you HAVE to fight him is one of the single biggest reasons new players quit. I help when I can, and I see it happen more than I'd care to say. "That was too much of a pain in the ****, I shouldn't have to beg in zone for help when everything else was doable. Thanks for the help but F this game". You know what? They're not wrong. It's level 10-12. You *should* be able to solo that.
I assume most newcomers would be stuck w/ ATs.. and w/o much prior info, they could really easily pick a squishy or not well-designed one. I mean, there's many other factors than that, but it prob is a big contributor.
Hell, even the good ATs dun really shine that early on anyways. By lvl 12, an FF can already have a passive and toggle and possibly a heal- all the ATs will still be end building heavily cause the toggle isn't until lvl 14, and the EU not till 25 (if they get one at all). No block power (usually ATs only other defense) till lvl 21 as well.
Silvers dun even get healing packs automatically, I dun think? How would they know to find Karneeki and dump some resources on health packs before heading out?
As for the discussions about nerfs and balance- problem is many people assume when you say 'nerf' you mean 'over-nerf', or 'make weak', it seems. Lowering a power's dmg by 1% or 100% would both be considered nerfs, but only one of them actually makes any real difference. The fear of a dev over-doing balance changes is def a valid one, but that shouldn't stop any attempts at balance overall imo.
If the devs do show incompetence in how they handle balancing, like some bad habit, then yeah I'd join the people against nerfs or any balance changes in general- but that would be for a diff reason than not wanting to see things nerfed.
Guess I haven't been around long enough to know :x
Comments
RIP Caine
I could use Name Change Tokens.
I could use Free Retcon Tokens.
I could use Titles.
I could use Free Costume Slots.
I could use Free Character Slots.
And Stuff.
Since you've seem to give Stuff away every month anyways now.....
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
2. saints row 4, goofy game with heavy customization and superpowers. the story is tongue in cheek, and you aren't a "hero" but i definitely played it pretty hard, wish it had more expansions. always surprised that soem enterprising coh and co fans didn get together and try a total conversion with it, you dont have specific power "tracks" per se, and you cant seem to avoid collateral damage, but it is a pretty strong superpowered game.
more rewards wouldn't suck.
RIP Caine
5000 days and counting, HAHA! Bring on rewards
I Suspect that it would cost more to implement a mac client and maintain it than they gain from money you spend towards the game. Don't get me wrong it could happen and for while there was a real up swing in the number of games getting mac ports/clients but i susspect what with boot camp and other means of getting windows to run on a mac that that boat has sailed.
Don't get me wrong new content is alleyways welcome and i morn the fact that they seem to have abandoned any form of new content other than rampages (would love to see more serpent lantern type set ups) however there is also something to be said for making your own fun (especially as new content is only new for those first few runs then its the same old thing).
wouldn't say no to more rewards just past the 1819 days mark my self
and now Ive started thinking about it
steam has me logged in for 3405 hours so thats 1.8 hours a day of my life spent playing CO (probably higher as I did not always use steam to play)
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Mention bootcamp to a mac user and you'll be lucky to keep your head attached.
At the very least, you'll have an arm taken off!
For those that have no experience with bootcamp, I'll summarize what it requires:
1. A legal copy of Windows.
2. A secondary partition on your primary hard drive (internal) to install WindowsOS in addition to the partition that contains your MacOS.
The reason it is badly recieved is that running two seperate OS on one computer has adverse effects on the performance of the Mac, slowing it down.
And there's also resentment based on the fact that bootcamp is still Windows anyway, it is in no way integrating the programs directly into the MacOS.
Imagine having to reboot your computer to run Windows, then do it again to run MacOS.
I've tried a few of those other methods to try and run Fallout: New Vegas on my Mac, but so far, nothing I've tried has worked.
Which is why I assume if a software company doesn't make an official MacOS port, there's nothing a user can do to change that fact.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
Silverspar on PRIMUS
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Honestly, I'd say all 3 games are in trouble. The other two just have better forward momentum
Neverwinter: Is become just big Astral Diamond farm (NWO Questionite), and Psudo Real Money Auction House gaming system (and exploit hunt) due to the game setup. Some have started to realize just how poor the random system is there, similar to that other game with the RMAH (The one they took down). Do people like the system enough to keep the game going? How long can they bait/switch power levels and classes to keep people re-purchasing powerup consumables? Last update was 2 zones, with 2 sets of repeatable quests, grinded over and over till you unlock an alert. Not really impressive
STO: Baring the recent announcement the populas had figured out the game was just one rep system after another. It's Dilithium grind online, the system is nearly too integrated for it's own good. We complain about endgame in CO, there's equally lack of game in STO-endgame.. it's just better hidden in gating and shear amount of "alerts" most of which don't run, cause they arn't "optimal returns". Updates a bit better than NW here, as along with the 'a few alerts, and a zone' they have done some episode cleanup, and new origin stories to play.
Both games are starting to lack .. game-play .. other than gaming the FTP system.
CO: Yeh, we've lost momentum, plus the trains fell in a ditch and is off the tracks. It's an uphill battle to even get the train going again.
I guess only time will tell if were being taken on a train ride to doom being milked on a way, or if there's a rocket ship and were going to the moon. Or somewhere in the middle, going further into the "MMO standard" of dailys, repeats, grind, gating and RNG servitude.
It often fascinates me why people get involved in MMOs then if the idea of having to work for things and build themselves up so disgusts them these days. Counter productive arguments for people that demand content and more power for their characters when they complain that they might have to work for said content and that new power they get means their old power is not as relevant anymore.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Pretty much how I feel. After playing EQ and later WoW, I never understood the need for level increases. It just makes existing content even more obsolete than it needs to be, while killing replay value with alts. I'd much rather have one level cap, and new content be expanded upon it regularly.
I never understood this complaint.
You want more stuff and gear to go with it (aka power) which makes existing content obsolete and what you currently are using obsolete. But you don't want a level cap increase because it would make existing content obsolete and what you are using obsolete? So, explain to me the difference?
Shifting a level won't change the old content either, in fact would have the same preservation quality as just adding more power and gear on, which would have even more detrimental effect as the gear outpaces the actual ceiling, thus making it harder for anyone to actually get involved later on.
Regardless, this game was originally planned for a level 50 cap, and I doubt those plans were done away with.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Also, I don't particularly care about a level cap increase.. bigger numbers are just that, bigger numbers, they guarantee nothing. What I would like to see is more content at all levels 6-40, and more importantly more interesting, faster, action-filled content, that involved NPCs that do stuff in addition to the usual "run up and melee" and "stand there and slowly fire off ranged attacks" behavior we're so familiar with.
To sum up, I'm less concerned with "bigger", and more-so with "more" and "better".
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Yup, I'm all-in on this. Ideally, it'd be great to be able to level 6-40 all in one zone, if you chose to. Then you'd have a lot more options each time, instead of hitting the same areas at the same levels every time.
I'm not a doom-sayer, but I am a realist, so I have to add that this will never happen. I'll be surprised if ever get non-instanced content again, of any size or quality; it's just not what they've chosen to do, sadly.
As short as it is, it't the biggest turn off.
Every.
Single.
Time.
Kodiak and Po(o)e.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Breaking the Hero Games queue so that you can't really level up that way was another mistake.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
Don't read too much into my late night doom/light ramblings. Like you said this is hardly a unique case here. This won't be the last doom thread (heck doom threads are good, players care enough to be concerned), and that won't be the last "OMG See the light" reply.
If really need some "evidence" the particular 'see the light' doom that I'm referring too, well it isn't a fast change where everyone leaves in one day that can be pointed to (Heck more people leave do to Nerf X in Patch Y). Rather it's a slow change .. go back and look at the FTP transition and MMO graveyard. People did realize subscription game X wasn't any better than Y, and at least Y had all "their stuff" sub dropped MMO slowly died (or another cash cow seen), FTP brought in to bring in another crowd. Some games live, some died, some fast, some slow, some entire companies threw in the towel.
It's an endless ebb and flow of content and drought, doom and resurgence. New blood comes old blood leaves.
As for the power/level/work thing. I'm willing to work .. until that random arbitrary point that I decided it isn't worth my time anymore or dub the system randomly not-fair to me. Yup I'm petty, "lazy" and "want everything my way" .. but at least I'm willing to admit it :biggrin:
Spending a while in zone, I think I hear "Anyone wanna help with Poe?" about 10 times a day. It's almost at the point where I think Poe was someone's PnP character, and they're Mary Sue author inserting them so everyone has to see how great they were.
I'd bet frustration with Poe and how you HAVE to fight him is one of the single biggest reasons new players quit. I help when I can, and I see it happen more than I'd care to say. "That was too much of a pain in the ****, I shouldn't have to beg in zone for help when everything else was doable. Thanks for the help but F this game". You know what? They're not wrong. It's level 10-12. You *should* be able to solo that.
No. No, they're not. I mentioned this before, we get them all the time, even though according to everyone with any say we're doing fine numbers wise and financially. On average I've got *40* people online on my friends list, and I add about 5 a day. Granted, I'm probably one of the more outgoing people in game, but still.
What doom threads do is convince new players checking on the forums that the game is in trouble, TRUE OR NOT, and makes them decide to look elsewhere. In CO's case, that's a mistake. It's easy to see the game from the eyes of an old vet, who's done all of this a million times before. But have you? There's a lot to the game. A *lot*. I was maybe 2 and a half years in when I finally got to the point where sammy's dollies was one of the only quests I'd not done.
You sound like your issue is with MMOs. Every MMO ever launched has this happen. Even WoW has hemorrhaged millions of players at times, just happened in fact. If the fact that a game might lose players and slow down bothers you, don't play multiplayer. Even CoD shuts servers down for old games after a while.
I repeat, we are *not* in any risk of this happening. Direct word of mouth from a ton of people. They just hired people for the specific chunk of the studio that deals with our game. And I'm not even gonna tell you to see the light. I'm gonna take the more controversial approach. If you're annoyed at the content. If you are bored with what there is to do. Take. A. Break. Rather than doomsaying all over the forums and explaining the basics of how MMOs work to everyone, go play minecraft for a few weeks. Come back with a fresh perspective and figure out what made you love the game in the first place. Unless you can't for some reason, in which case yeah. Game's obviously working as intended.
I'm actually in agreement on the level cap, mostly for the reason that I want endgame instead and I'm not convinced if we get a higher level cap we'll see much of it. They'd have to rework what we have, which is actually more than people realize, or do all new endgame content. I'd love a new zone (M.O.O.N., that spells Mechanon) but not if it means having less to do with my maxed characters. That and I *really* don't want to have to level 15 characters to cap again. Especially the Squall, my poor ego can't take it.
I think the mechanics behind a level cap increase are pretty hefty, so I'm not sure we'll see it. They'd have to rework every archetype, redo all of the gear, rework the endgame, balance how many new powers we get, maybe create higher tier powers, make the new zone... That's a pretty big undertaking. I also think the community would probably lose their minds if it happened, which would probably make it all worth it. The people scrambling for new content, I imagine freaking out because alt leveling and the ATs are all worse now, and my justice gear is useless and took forever to farm, and now I have to spend 239843095870 q unslotting my mods... You think this is a doom thread? A level cap increase would have me sitting in here giggling my **** off like this:
RIP Caine
RIP Caine
Evidently buffs break power sets to, so your argument is flawed.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Problem is some sets legit never got their power set pass back in the day. Those sets need HELP.
RIP Caine
The way I looked at it was like this:
When I got to level 40, I often found myself saying, I wish I had enough points to add just 1 or 2 more powers.
Not necessarily to become more powerful, but just for fun.
For my main, I wanted them to use assault rifles, the laser equivalent of assault rifle (can't remember what it is called) and shotgun.
The reason for the assault rifle skills is that with the right weapon skins, I could make it look like I was using the same gun and I was switching it from projectile to laser mode.
The shotgun was just for fun, I had a thing I could equip that transformed it into a small flamethrower each time I fired it.
I think that device was removed long ago though, the only reason my main has it is because they kept it after it was taken out of the game (legacy item).
So I'm assuming I'll never be able to obtain that device on other characters.
But for more serious reasons, my tanker and my glass cannon need 1 more skill and they can't have it.
Or more advantage points, I cannot remember which.
Probably a combination of both.
So a level cap rise to 50 would give me an estimated 5 new power points to acquire some extra skills.
Either for fun or a few extra skills to augment the build.
That's why I want it.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
The 2GM buff did kinda break balance there as far as risk:reward for melee vs range goes. After the buff 2GM with Close the Gap out-DPSe every T0 melee combo in the game, as a T0 power itself. Ofc melee powers like Laser Sword and Haymaker do manage to outparse 2GM, but they're not T0.
Problem was they intended to fiddle around with more of the powers to get it in line but never got around to it. So it ended up just being left how it was.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
Also, which sounds like more work: Going through and individually buffing all the various types of NPCs in the game... or nerfing a few of the overperforming powers? Which seems more likely to break something? Which seems more likely to create power creep?
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Short of that? A few powers could use a slight adjustment. My 2c on nerfs though is historically we've not had much luck getting actual balance out of them. See also: mini mines.
RIP Caine
What is the rationale for doing that though? Or rather, what is the rationale for assuming that that is what would be done?
Only issue I can see with the level cap increase thing is that only mobs 41 to new level cap would see these improvements. Everything 6 to 40 would either stay the same or get thrown out of whack. I'd rather see them stick with the current level range and fix things in that level range. There's a lot of room for improvement in those 34 levels before they think of moving forward.
I'd hate to see the game turn into "Okay, the majority of your leveling is gonna take place in the messed up boring old part of the game.. but just wait until you hit level 41!"
As for the "historical record on nerfs", the solution is simple... they just need to start doing it right, and stop doing it wrong (see: Imbue).
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
You know what would make a build better? Having more options than "Lol op" or "ew, nope".
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
Now, you say "Ruining their builds". The implication there would be "If a build is no longer overpoweringly effective, it is ruined". Is that really the message you're trying to push? I guess my next question would be what your definition of "ruined" is. Is a build no longer fun or interesting for you if it doesn't allow you to blast through content on ezmode? Keep in mind there are many builds that don't utilize all the game's most overpowered abilities that can still solo content that is meant to be solo'd, and with clever play can even solo parts of group content. And of course, if your build isn't overpowered, and isn't using the overpowered abilities, then why would you be worried that your build would be getting nerfed?
So, let's say they don't nerf anything, all they do is apply a universal buff to all NPCs in the game that increases their health and damage to 300% of their current amounts. That's okay then since you're not being nerfed, right? Or is that still a problem because anything that threatens a guaranteed win on all fronts is the real problem? I often feel like the "no nerfs" argument can be summed up as "I don't care what you do, so long as I still win. Make it so I can lose and I threaten to quit." The other alternative is actually much more shallow, and is "I don't want my numbers to get smaller". Of course, I'm assuming here that the game is as easy for you as it is to me... but only based on the fact that I'm a noobuilder (my expert knowledge of this game would barely fill a paragraph) who makes squishy theme builds and still finds the game too easy. For all I know you're struggling to get by.
Again, it all really hinges on your definition of "ruined". Some people around here seem to think that a build is "broken" if it can't solo all group content; some think glass cannons aren't viable if they can't solo Rampage bosses... there's quite the variety when it comes to people and their opinions on what is an acceptable power level for a build. Personally I think if you can solo the solo content, and can contribute reasonably in group content, your build is far from ruined. On the other hand if you can solo everything no matter what you build, then you end up in a situation where the majority of choices are dumb because the most efficient thing is to just make a dps character, because making anything even remotely tanky or support based only has the effect of slowing you down.
If all powers were buffed up to the level of the top-performing powers, then everybody would be able to solo group content, and everything in the game would be a steamroll fest. The only benefit to that would be that everyone would finally see what we're talking about when we say we get bored because the game is too easy...unfortunately the result of that benefit wouldn't work out too well for the game (I remember a lot of people quickly getting bored with GTA once they started using cheat codes too much; being invincible and not having to try to get the win only remains giggle-worthy for so long).
The idea of "Buff us and buff all the npcs" is inefficient (you really want to increase the dev workload based simply on the notion that smaller numbers will anger players?) and seems to ignore the fact that all balance changes are relative.
Personally, I think that all builds would benefit from a relative balancing of all powers by becoming more interesting, and by providing players with a greater diversity of viable choices. Yes, we might actually have to depend on one another a bit more in group content. Yes, there might be less "face tank the entire instance" going on. However, many many many other games exist with those realities, and they seem to be doing quite well.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
*Slow claps*
I take this quote from a review that I agree with.
"customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
The two big things in CO that make people OP atleast in PvP are defense on gear and stats which goes of offense and cooldown reduction. Crush was about to do what he did to dodge/crit to cooldown, most likely in this change he was also going to buff arcane clarity as he did with targeting computer so that nerfing stats wouldn't end up damaging the people using the power.
But yeah if nothing was ever nerfed and always buffed we would end up in a pretty pointless situation in PvE and in PvP if you win or not would purely be down to your build.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
He was going to make it a worth while Passive?
I take this quote from a review that I agree with.
"customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
You know, at some point, it is okay for the people running the game to just say "good riddance" and move forward. Their responsibility is not to bend to every whiny little brat who gets their panties in a bunch; their primary responsibility is to make the game better, and they have to be smart about how they use their scarce resources in the pursuit of that.
And why doesn't this apply to all the people the game has lost for the explicit reason that the game is too easy? It's been a long time since this game lost people because it was too difficult.
There's a difference between "ill will" and "entitled hissy fits".
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Hell, even the good ATs dun really shine that early on anyways. By lvl 12, an FF can already have a passive and toggle and possibly a heal- all the ATs will still be end building heavily cause the toggle isn't until lvl 14, and the EU not till 25 (if they get one at all). No block power (usually ATs only other defense) till lvl 21 as well.
Silvers dun even get healing packs automatically, I dun think? How would they know to find Karneeki and dump some resources on health packs before heading out?
As for the discussions about nerfs and balance- problem is many people assume when you say 'nerf' you mean 'over-nerf', or 'make weak', it seems. Lowering a power's dmg by 1% or 100% would both be considered nerfs, but only one of them actually makes any real difference. The fear of a dev over-doing balance changes is def a valid one, but that shouldn't stop any attempts at balance overall imo.
If the devs do show incompetence in how they handle balancing, like some bad habit, then yeah I'd join the people against nerfs or any balance changes in general- but that would be for a diff reason than not wanting to see things nerfed.
Guess I haven't been around long enough to know :x
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!