[Powers] Affinity and Weakness

r9xchaos

Hello people,

Champions has a wide spectrum of the use of the available powers... but it feels not deep enough...Also this is oen feature we are missing .. when we think about heroes..they all have weaknesses and affinities... Superman is the best example

What i would think that would make the game somehow more interesting is to add Affinities and Weaknesses to our heroes.. and my following system would even apply flawless to ATs.


Something to be said before... Weaknesses and Affinities can be selected at lvl 25 and only be changed if you ripp off all your powers in powerhouse menu OR use a full retcon.


Decription:


Affinity:

This is a power that modifies damage multipliers and efectors of ALL your combat powers .. choosing an Affinity adds effects to all your Powers once it was choosen.

Choosing Affinity also adds negative multipliers to all your powers called "Weakness" these weaknesses wil make you more vunerable to different powers.

Here is one example: At lvl 25 you select one of your existing powers this power will be left unchanged BUT it will change your gameplay alot.. for this example we use CONVICTION , a celestial power adding it will add a very small self healing ability to all your buffs and a small healing effect all your attack powers.. for example.. when you cast your force cascade on your friend while CONVICTION is active as Affinity it will heal him for 20% the amount it would do dmg...
this applies to all powers of the attack type (( except lunges or course )).

Adding conviction as yoru affinity also grants you a dmg buff on ally our powers when they are casted at an enemy that has choosen and "darkness or infernal" power as affinity.

Adding conviction also grants you defense boost against darkness or infernal.

Weakness:

Since we used Conviction... wich is a MAGIC power we will be weak against technological stuff



and thats pretty much it...


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*** a side idea of mien is when you use mixed skills like magic and technology you have "mastered anomaly/paradoxon" effects on your powers ;D ***
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Using force powers at affinity would add a %+ crushing dmg to all our powers...

Munitions would add piercing...

and so on... if they would add this im pretty sure the devs can be creative

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And now here is an interesting point of my system...


This requires a bit rework of the power animations though....


lets say you are melee and you have for example... FIRE SHIELD you use the shield as affinity... wich adds fire/clingin flames to all your attack... means.. when you use your swords... they add fire dmg AND have visual fire effects...


or here: when you use ebon void ( darness ) as affinity.. ally our melee strikes have shadow visuals and dimensional dmg...


or Two Gun Mojo with darkness effects and dimensional dmg


or even... Force cascade with fire effect ..

see what i mean??

this would add a whole new experience to the game.. and maybe it even "revives" the population of the game


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the only downside is that ATs are a bit left out.. but hey... unleashed forexample already has kind of power mix.. melee and force... so.. teh idea is already there


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Now what do you say?

even if the devs are never adding or reading this.. let me know what you think...

themightyzenith

Probably belongs in the suggestions part of the forums.

r9xchaos

conviction is celestial...wich is magic

meedacthunist

Powersets names are just that - names. Ingame, provided they are building for theme, people are using powers mostly becase of their visuals. Like bestial supernatural which fits for mutants/aliens/vampires/werewolves/anything.

There should not be any mechanical changes affecting this freedom of choice.

Unless this is entirely optional, then, whatever. Why not?

mrhinkypunk

Theme is whatever the person using it says it is.

salutage14xx

Eyebrows

teehee

r9xchaos

gradii wrote: »

have you no imagination or are you just a troll?

Conviction is found at Celestial category

only because you use it as robot doesnt means its origin isnt magical..lol

CELESTIAL is used by angels wich are magical beings...jeezuz read about champs...

jennymachx

The idea could work if the game used a strictly archetype system since archetypes tend to be based around a single powerset, therefore they could benefit from specific affinity bonuses. The effectiveness of those affinity bonuses and the weaknesses would be purely based on specific battle conditions so there's no imbalance.

For a freeform system though, the idea definitely is a no-no. All I would have to do as a freeform player is to take powers from multiple powersets and then benefit from multiple affinity bonuses and also to cover for multiple weaknesses. That would lead to some serious overpowered builds.

orrynn

As other have said this all ready but just because it is found in one group it does not mean it has to be that to you. I have a water base toon he uses ice power, fire power, magic, and pys powers. I colored them blue and bam now they are water powers. I had to do this because we have no water powerset.

cybersoldier1981

This entire discussion is why if I had it to do, you would pick a very basic 'range/damage type/Rate' type system for powers. One man's SMG could change animations and be another's Two-gun-mojo or gauntlet gun or something. One guy's palm blast could be another guy's beam cannon or holy ray of righteous fury.

r9xchaos

wel the main idea behind this is to add different dmg types to other powers.. like for example fire melee or munitions ice.. or whatever .. Cryo round , incendairy shots , fire cutter , darkness infused sniper shots yay..pls

and as all heroes from comic books have weaknesses i thought it would be more original if we ale have weaknesses oO


its just a suggestion and i would love if people add more ideas /chane this idea to amke it perfect.. maybe teh devs will even add it if many people help makign the idea even better oO

bluhman

Really not a big fan of applying weaknesses/strengths to your characters through various thematically-related powers, since one of the big attractions about creating a character is how all of them are a bit open to interpretation (For example, is Force a form of telekinesis? Are you firing energy bolts? Is it sound? It could be anything!)

Another rationale that's important to consider, is that elemental strengths/weaknesses are almost unheard of in superhero MMOs - because more often than not, your character is directly connected to a specific damage type (your fire-blaster isn't going to suddenly be throwing out lightning bolts for example.) I can think of at least two situations in superhero MMOs where going against this has failed: One was a specific Council boss in CoH, who had darkness powers that reduced your dodge chance. This was all fine and dandy, unless you played a Super-Reflexes scrapper, then you were screwed and would either need a lot of inspirations/help to get through a mission most others could probably complete solo. The other is right in this game - how VIPER pulson rifles are strong against force fields, which sort of contributes to how PFF isn't a very popular passive at all.

However, the notion is attractive, because weaknesses are featured a lot in superhero media - and even in the Champions tabletop itself, alongside other superhero Tabletops. Other MMOs got past the problem by basically tying all this cool elemental stuff to specific equipment that you could exchange for different situations, so countering enemies became a matter of strategically switching loadouts instead of praying you have the right attacks to defeat the target quickly.

That all said, here's some guidelines I'd give in integrating such a system into the game:

• Don't tie it to powers. The best way I could think to put it into the game is either as a specialization set that grants superior bonuses in exchange for a weakness, or power-replacer styled equipment that offers superior bonuses to specific powersets (i.e. Fire-tree attacks hit twice per tick) but also inflict a weakness (30% extra Ice damage taken)
• If heroes get weaknesses to damage types, then so should enemies. It's only logical; make demons weak against Mystical damage, as spells like Skarn's Bane are good at banishing and countering supernatural entities. Make Menton weak against crushing damage because he's a scrawny dude in a tweed jacket. Make Ripper weak against Ego damage because he's dumb, etc. This way, it might be justifiable to make enemies a bit stronger, so that the options to defeat enemies essentially boil down to either being powerful/fast enough to take them down, or have the specialty or versatility to have attacks they're weak against.
• Optimally thinking, damage-type weaknesses and strengths should come in to play most crucially inside lairs, where having multiple characters, and a good variety of damage types, is guaranteed.

I'll have to try and draft up a spec tree that would make sense for tradeoff-based bonuses.

taintedmess

r9xchaos wrote: »

conviction is celestial...wich is magic

I would argue that magic is simply a form of science (and by extension technology) that we do not yet understand.

As to weakness why would some one with a affinity for magic automatically be week Vs technology? it makes no real sense.

kallethen

I think it could and perhaps should be something as choosing a type of damage as a weakness and affinity like you would choose a Talent or Superstat. Within those choices, we could pick a broad category of damage (Physical, Elemental, Energy, or Supernatural) and have damage adjusted by 10% from that category. Or, we could pick a specific damage type for a higher 25% adjustment. If you take a broad weakness, you can only have a broad affinity, and if you take a specific weakness, you can only have a specific affinity. (Note, the percentage amounts are there more as examples, not necessarily what should be.)

Example 1) A sorceror hero could choose to be generally strong against Supernatural damage because he knows how to ward mystical influences. But that same influence makes him vulnerable to Energy damage as the wards react adversely to agitated molecules.

Example 2) The water-based hero from an earlier poster could choose to be very strong against Fire damage his water powers cool off the heat, but since water conducts Electricity he finds himself very weak against that damage.

kallethen

gradii wrote: »

this won't work at all, read bluhmans post.

Let me be a little more clear on what I posted:

The choice of the weakness and affinity would be up to the player, not based on powers chosen.

bluhman

kallethen wrote: »

I think it could and perhaps should be something as choosing a type of damage as a weakness and affinity like you would choose a Talent or Superstat. Within those choices, we could pick a broad category of damage (Physical, Elemental, Energy, or Supernatural) and have damage adjusted by 10% from that category. Or, we could pick a specific damage type for a higher 25% adjustment. If you take a broad weakness, you can only have a broad affinity, and if you take a specific weakness, you can only have a specific affinity. (Note, the percentage amounts are there more as examples, not necessarily what should be.)

Example 1) A sorceror hero could choose to be generally strong against Supernatural damage because he knows how to ward mystical influences. But that same influence makes him vulnerable to Energy damage as the wards react adversely to agitated molecules.

Example 2) The water-based hero from an earlier poster could choose to be very strong against Fire damage his water powers cool off the heat, but since water conducts Electricity he finds himself very weak against that damage.

After thinking on the issue a bit, putting it in as its own unique system (instead of tying it to specific powers, or to a spec tree) would be the best way to do it.

So the mechanical specifics about how this might work: At level 20, your character unlocks access to the Affinity mechanic. Affinity works on points, of which you initially have 0 of. Your character also never actually will gain affinity points while levelling, but instead can gain them by gaining a weakness. In turn, they're spent on affinities, which serve to counterbalance the given weakness and sometimes even grant the user some extra tweaks.

A maximum of 3 affinities and 3 weaknesses can be taken at once. The number of affinities you have cannot exceed the number of weaknesses.

Affinities:

• Reinforced - Take 15% less damage from Physical attacks.
• Thermic - Take 15% less damage from Elemental attacks
• Insulated - Take 15% less damage from Energy attacks.
• Attuned - 15% less damage taken from Paranormal attacks.
• Obstinate - Overall defense increased by 5%.
• Savage - Deal 10% more damage.
• Crack-shot - Critical chance raised by 10%
• Nimble - Move 10% faster, and gain 5% dodge chance.
• Massive - 10% more health.
• Savior - Heal 25% more health when target in question is under 50% max health.
• Daring - As your health is reduced, you gain up to 50% extra damage output.
• Super-dense - Resist all knock effects.
• Quick feet - Resist all snare and root effects.
• Freedom! - Holds and Disables only last for half as long.
• Unyielding - After being defeated, you will attempt to revive yourself automatically, restoring 50% of your health over 10 seconds. Note that you are vulnerable to damage while doing this, and are unable to move. Can only occur once every 6 minutes.
• Prepared - When out of combat, any toggle form you are using will automatically stack once every 5 seconds.
• Gorgeous - Increased threat effects, depending on role. When you are hit, the attacker has a 1% chance to become charmed; a confuse effect that renders all your allies invisible to them.

Weaknesses:

• Glass bones - Take 25% more Crushing damage.
• Hemophilic - 25% more cutting damage.
• Thin-skinned - 25% more piercing damage
• Heatsink - 25% more Fire damage
• Cold-blooded - 25% more cold damage
• Sickly - 25% more Toxic damage
• Grounded - 25% more Electric damage
• Mutagenic - 25% more Particle damage
• Hyperacusis - 50% more Sonic damage (because it's so damn rare in the game.)
• Susceptible mind - 25% more Ego damage.
• Cursed - 25% more Mystic damage.
• Believer - 25% more Dimensional damage.
• Coward - When hit, you have a 5% chance to become scared, and a 1% chance to be stunned in fear.
• Berserker - When hit, you have a 10% chance to become Berserked! Berserk will raise your damage output by 10%, but disables use of any abilities other than attacks - no actives, heals, or blocks can be used for 10 seconds.
• Loner - Lose 5% attack and defense power when within 20 feet of any friendly targets.
• Clumsy - Higher susceptibility to knockdown, and lower crit chance (-10%).
• Captive - Higher susceptibility to holds and disables.
• Slow-going - Higher susceptibility to snare and root, and 5% slower movement.
• Non-living - Healing effects only work at 70% strength for you.

The general rationale is that affinities are general, and weaknesses are specific. On that note, it should also be noted most of the weaknesses are indeed more severe than the affinities - this theoretically works out when it comes to PvE: Say we run a robot tank character who is Reinforced and Obstinate, but also Grounded and Non-Living. In most situations, they will be very good at shrugging off all sorts of damage, thanks to having an extra 20% resistance to all physical damage, and even a 5% boost to everything else. The only situation where they will be in trouble is when they need emergency healing (if they're good, they can shrug off most attacks with that superior defense), or when faced with an enemy with electrical attacks - which are thankfully rather rare. The affinities serve to make your character just plain 'better' in most terms, while weaknesses incur an extra challenge when facing certain enemy types.