NOT The Foundry: A scaled-down mission architect

foxyperson

Let's say I decide to accept the "can't-be-done-evar" argument.

How about a less sophisticated mission editor made specifically for CO's "unique" engine? One that is not The Foundry. I'll settle for anything that lets me set success conditions from either kill/collect/talk to, write dialogs on NPCs and items, and select enemies and maps.

That's all I need.

Insert naysaying under the dotted line.

........................................................................................

flyingfinn

I'll settle for anything that lets me set success conditions from either kill/collect/talk to, write dialogs on NPCs and items, and select enemies and maps.

less sophisticated mission editor

Sounds like Foundry.
Halfasserly made.
Select premade enemies.
Select premade maps
I mean, what more Foundry could be?

If that's what you're asking.
No thanks.
Spend those resources to some Nice Lock Box items and Bug Fixes.

r9xchaos

the foundry could work, its working in star trek also..

tee devs are using kind of foundry to create the mission in this game...

spinnytop

When they say Foundry they don't literally mean ripping the Foundry out of STO and unceremoniously jamming it into CO like someone jamming a dead body into a wood chipper.

I'm sure when they say "We can't do the Foundry" they mean "We can't do anything that you guys would even remotely consider worth all the time it would take and the bugs it would create".

They've likely considered a "lesser" version of the other games' Foundry, and they had to go so lesser that they realized it wouldn't be worth it, and would probably just upset most people and please no one and end up not being used.

flyingfinn

a wood chipper.

Aka Cryptic Engine.
Stuff you put in, comes out shredded and unrecognisable. And if you actually are able to put it together again, it sure hell isn't what you put in at the begin with.
Sorry to say this, but anything bigger than Costume Sets, Lock Boxes or 2-Minute-Spanks have come out Halfasserly, without future additions and after awhile breaking down to unfixable mess.
:mad:GRRRRRRrrr...

meedacthunist

foxyperson wrote: »

Let's say I decide to accept the "can't-be-done-evar" argument.

How about a less sophisticated mission editor made specifically for CO's "unique" engine? One that is not The Foundry. I'll settle for anything that lets me set success conditions from either kill/collect/talk to, write dialogs on NPCs and items, and select enemies and maps.

^That exactly IS the Foundry. This is how it works.

The Foundry is a very basic editor.

evillegacy1

foxyperson wrote: »

Let's say I decide to accept the "can't-be-done-evar" argument.

How about a less sophisticated mission editor made specifically for CO's "unique" engine? One that is not The Foundry. I'll settle for anything that lets me set success conditions from either kill/collect/talk to, write dialogs on NPCs and items, and select enemies and maps.

That's all I need.

Insert naysaying under the dotted line.

........................................................................................

Well many things in many other games when first suggested, "NAY!!! That is impossible it can never be done. Stop saying crazy ideas, troll. The devs said never so drop it. It's stupid idea, noob." Then a couple of years later the feature comes out, the same people that was so sure in their them saying never including the devs, now say

"Greatest idea ever. Who ever don't like it need to leave the game. This is the best feature. I like this feature. Never take this feature away. This feature should be in every game. Other games dont have these feature so they suck." and be the first one in line to get the new feature a year ago they were slamming. And a few will try to act like they were on board the entire time and it was their idea in the beginning. In a way ina certain group, this still goes on.


That is one of the reasons why usually never means nothing. It just mean they cant do it at this moment. I'm sure there is a way...well think there is a way. The devs themselves don't release new missions often so it may be even the mission creator the devs got is tedious and crazy to use. And would be even crazier to break down into a usuable tool for player level mission creator. But then again, how long they been saying never? About a year now? That could have been a year they could have been figuring out how to do it and making sure it is indeed impossible. But given in coding anything can be changed, it's never impossible it's just more so is the work to do it worth it and the bugs and risk it brings. Hell they haven't gotten rid of many of the bugs that been floating around in this game for a long time. Let alone those bugs on top of the bugs that a mission creator would bring.

Maybe they can start off small as you, the poster, said, and go from there. Never know. At one point in time, it was impossible for a super hero genre mmo. It was thought of as the craziest idea in the entire planet and thought of why would any one do such a stupid thing. And that super hero stuff is not RPG and only fitting for console games and single player. This was the time where MMORPG really meant Fantasy MMORPG. Now, there is a couple of super hero games out, some sci fi, the usual fantasy games and mmorpgs that fit somewhere in the between and in other categories. And many of those same players in those days, deriding the very idea of super hero mmo were the same ones pissed off when one that they got attached too kicked the bucket.

Sometimes with ideas it's best to try it out, and not go by impossible. Because at one times, everything was considered impossible, and now many of those items through out history are considered normality and thought as "how can someone live without it?" Especially in the technology realm. The ones that kept going are filthy rich. The ones that quit and listened to impossible, no one know their names. Those that derided the idea are the first ones standing in line or camping out at the store in the wee hours of the morming for it when it comes out and repeat process when the new edition comes out.

meedacthunist

Thing is, what was suggested in OP is an exact definiton of Foundry editor. This is exactly how it works. A very simple editor to make things with presets.

The reason why we don't have Foundry isn't exactly technical. It's about lack of manpower and resources. It's doable, but company will benefit nothing from making it.

zahinder

I think the company would benefit a bunch, but it's still a risk and just because something will probably be profitable doesn't magically summon funding from the finance fairies.

Among other things, it's impossible to prove how much success of a game comes from any individual feature. Is STO or NW doing better because of Foundry? Who can say?

Given a clear lack of regard for CO, something as ambiguous as Foundry is ... terribly implausible, given everything Cryptic has said about the challenge of implementing Foundry.

psi2

meedacthunist wrote: »

Thing is, what was suggested in OP is an exact definiton of Foundry editor. This is exactly how it works. A very simple editor to make things with presets.

I feel like you've never even looked at STO's, much less NW's Foundry...

meedacthunist

psi2 wrote: »

I feel like you've never even looked at STO's, much less NW's Foundry...

I did work with both, thank you.

For anyone who ever had something more, like aurora or epsilon, the Foundry is basic.

Down to it's core it is all only working with presets. Exactly what OP wanted.

That you can use a lot of preset parts doesn't change that everything in foundry is: a) fill generic story tree, b) set presets maps, c) fill dialog boxes, d) place more or less preset components as necessary.


It's especially true for STO foundry, as NW lets you building your own interior combinations from preset rooms.

psi2

Presets imply... presets.

Unless you mean creating custom costumes, faces, aliens, maps, object placement, dialogue trees, ships, and NW's ability to basically let you play with legos to create maps, then sure, it's all preset.

I'm sure it's not as good as certain games, but the Foundry is anything but playing with presets. The biggest limitation is the author's imagination. STO's is a bit more basic, but it's still worlds ahead of what most MMOs offer.

meedacthunist

psi2 wrote: »

Presets imply... presets.

Unless you mean creating custom costumes, faces, aliens, maps, object placement, dialogue trees, ships, and NW's ability to basically let you play with legos to create maps, then sure, it's all preset.

I'm sure it's not as good as certain games, but the Foundry is anything but playing with presets. The biggest limitation is the author's imagination. STO's is a bit more basic, but it's still worlds ahead of what most MMOs offer.

No. Presets imply what is Foundry. A collection of presets, even if a vast one.

It doesn't let you uploading assets nor making scripts.

LEGO blocks are still presets.
That you can assemble it in few ways it doesn't make it any less premade. Costume creator is also based on presets.
That you can mix and match it in creative combinantions, doesn't change them being premade.


This:

foxyperson wrote: »

I'll settle for anything that lets me set success conditions from either kill/collect/talk to, write dialogs on NPCs and items, and select enemies and maps.

Is exactly what is making advetures in Foundry, nothing else. Basically, OP asked for Foundry.

Fill story tree, set objectives, and all the rest are just details.

broadnax

meedacthunist wrote: »

I did work with both, thank you.

For anyone who ever had something more, like aurora or epsilon, the Foundry is basic.

Down to it's core it is all only working with presets. Exactly what OP wanted.

That you can use a lot of preset parts doesn't change that everything in foundry is: a) fill generic story tree, b) set presets maps, c) fill dialog boxes, d) place more or less preset components as necessary.


It's especially true for STO foundry, as NW lets you building your own interior combinations from preset rooms.

I think what the OP was thinking was more like CoH's Mission Architect. Yes, you could do the things listed above, but the maps were all preset maps too. There was a very broad selection of maps from the various missions in the game, both outdoor and indoor, but there was no map editor. You could select clickable items and state they should come at the beginning, middle, or end of the map, and they would autospawn at one of the preset spawnpoints on that area of the map.

It was even more basic than the Foundry, but there were talented authors who could still set up great stories with it. I even did one (Granny Granite and the Senior Moment Gang). It was a simpler tool than the Foundry editor (and did not require as much time to set things up), but still quite capable of being used for fun and creative story content.

zahinder

Guys, it's a spectrum.

Don't have a bs semantics war over what constitutes a preset.

Mission Architect was very simple, Aurora and similar are very flexible, and Foundry is somewhere in between.

broadnax

zahinder wrote: »

Guys, it's a spectrum.

Don't have a bs semantics war over what constitutes a preset.

Mission Architect was very simple, Aurora and similar are very flexible, and Foundry is somewhere in between.

Agreed. There was no "semantics war" in my post, just a comparative note with an example. The OP seemed to be asking whether a simpler UGC tool could be set up if Foundry is too complex to add to CO.

While I would truly love to see a UGC tool in CO, I don't know that CO brings in enough revenue to make the dev time worthwhile.

zahinder

Given the devs have repeatedly indicated they have no plans or interest in touching Nemesis, which is already RIGHT THERE... or hangouts, for that matter, something new like Foundry seems pretty unlikely.

Then again, Cryptic has a pattern of someone going 'OOO! LET'S DO -THIS-!!!'
So, hey, someone getting a burning desire to start work on Foundry, push something half-complete and then abandoning it would be in-character.

As bitter as that may sound, having a half-finished Foundry would at least be something kinda cool (unlike vehicles and all the other half-finished stuff)

jedite2012

Hmmmm..Nah if its a half foundry i would want them to spend money on other content

A full foundry or non at all

sistersilicon

foxyperson wrote: »

Let's say I decide to accept the "can't-be-done-evar" argument.

How about a less sophisticated mission editor made specifically for CO's "unique" engine? One that is not The Foundry. I'll settle for anything that lets me set success conditions from either kill/collect/talk to, write dialogs on NPCs and items, and select enemies and maps.

CO's version of Cryptic Engine isn't "unique", it's just old, as in "older than Foundry" old.

Our lack of Foundry isn't really an engine limitation. We've heard directly from Robobo that none of CO's assets (maps, objects, mobs, etc.) were ever properly tagged and indexed for Foundry use. Obviously, they couldn't tag for Foundry before they had one, but apparently, they never started to do so once they decided to start work on Foundry in STO.

If they had started tagging and indexing then, or when we started asking, or anytime before Neverwinter development started, perhaps they might have nibbled away at the backlog by now. The more often we hear from TT and LordGar that Foundry is "unfeasible", however, the more I think that they never started and have no intention to start.

chaelk

CO and STO were worked on at the same time. STO was launched 5 months after CO. Their Foundry took a year to get working properly. STO & NW have problems with Foundry seemingly with every patch they get.

That was with a large dev team, a lot of which were stripped from CO. So that they could focus on the preferred big name game. Compare the Update reports on the other 2 games to the ones here and see the difference a large team makes.

From what I have hear on various forums and the devs comments, CO is on an older version of the game engine than the other 2 games.

---

Quite frankly, the tech issue appears to be, we don't want to apply the tech to the issue. So unless something miraculous happens , I don't see it happening.
AS for the tagging issue, devs have been fired for NOT writing down where particular parts of the program are. Which make sit even worse.

zedbrightlander1

But we already have a Foundry - We have The Finkle Foundry.

{ Zed zips of before he gets pounded into a pulp }

:biggrin:

avianos

It's ALL THE FOUNDRY or Nothing!

zedbrightlander1 wrote: »

But we already have a Foundry - We have The Finkle Foundry.

{ Zed zips of before he gets pounded into a pulp }

:biggrin:

meedacthunist

zedbrightlander1 wrote: »

But we already have a Foundry - We have The Finkle Foundry.

{ Zed zips of before he gets pounded into a pulp }

:biggrin:

You, Dear Sir, have won:

a Troll badge!

Well done. :biggrin:

akirasanbeer

Could you imagine if that article had really been about the foundry being implemented/launched that day? Years of wanting it in and them saying "It'll never happen"......then out of nowhere:

Release Notes: December 6 2013.
*Fixed a typo in Black Harlequins bio
* Added Regenerating Test Dummies to the rest of the Powerhouses.
*Fixed a civilian callout message that had lost the name of the villain you'd defeated.
*Implemented the Foundry
*Cleaned up the tooltips for Alert boost rewards.
*Dark Aura has been converted from a toggle device to an Aura item.

chaelk

akirasanbeer wrote: »

Could you imagine if that article had really been about the foundry being implemented/launched that day? Years of wanting it in and them saying "It'll never happen"......then out of nowhere:

Release Notes: December 6 2013.
*Fixed a typo in Black Harlequins bio
* Added Regenerating Test Dummies to the rest of the Powerhouses.
*Fixed a civilian callout message that had lost the name of the villain you'd defeated.
*Implemented the Foundry
*Cleaned up the tooltips for Alert boost rewards.
*Dark Aura has been converted from a toggle device to an Aura item.

and the immediate response will be:
why can't I put in Q rewards?
whay isn't this here?
etc

reiwulf

Everyday I hope they will add the foundry in here, I love the NW foundry, and it gives us virtually unlimited content, something that CO really lacks.
I don't care if they say it can't be done. I know it can, we just need to make them know how much we want it.

flyingfinn

we just need to make them know how much we want it.

Maybe someone should make a thread where people could say YES! to the Foundry so Cryptic would see how much people want it.
....

But we already have a Foundry - We have The Finkle Foundry.

Actually we don't.