Crippling Challenge and Challenging Stikes change.

xcaligax

I'll be frank. Crippling Challenge is a joke. It's a taunt and a block disable, but some non tank characters take it, and when they use it in a pve setting, things get dicey.

I'll just put up this suggestion, and any insight would be appreciated.

Take away the taunt mechanic of Crippling Challenge and leave it be a block disable only.

As for Challenging Strikes, you could either take that taunt mechanic from CC, and give it to Challenging Strikes ooorrrr....

You can take away challenging strikes as an advantage from every move. Let Challenging Strikes be an INNATE application that is applied when you enter the TANK ROLE. I won't explain it further in detail because I will assume you know what I'm trying too say.

Make tanks be able to tank again. Thanks.

(( Not that I have a problem with aggro at all, but I'm just saying. :biggrin: )

gothicshark

I agree with you, as a pure DPS player I hate it when I hold aggro the full fight because I do 16k hits and 20k crits.

I should point out that is without crippling challenge.

spinnytop

You edited it fast enough that the "last edited" thing didn't show up. Well played Caliga, well played u.u

xcaligax

spinnytop wrote: »

...that doesn't really relate to the topic though. Even after Caliga's changes, you would still be taking aggro... in fact, since he would be removing the taunt portion of Crippling Challenge completely, you would be taking aggro more often. Unless of course the problem is that you have Crippling Challenge on your attacks...


That's kinda what I'm not getting here... he says "make tanks able to tank"... but how does removing their taunt accomplish that? Adding Challenging Strikes as an innate will just give tanks the same aggro ceiling they can potentially have now... removing CC's aggro component then lowers the ceiling lower than it is now.

I mean hey sure, make crippling challenge just a block remover, whatever... but we are planning to replace it with something that will actually help tanks hold aggro better right? Where's that part of the plan.. you forget to type that up Cali?

The main reason I am confused here is that my dps characters pull aggro quite consistently without ever touching crippling challenge... so that's really not causing the issue

You didn't read my post at all.

secksegai

I think you need CC and CS to help compensate for the higher damage your teammates put out.

People who don't know how to use "taunt" shouldn't be reason a lone to drop it completely.

As someone who used to run TT religiously with 4 ATs and an FF healer, that CC/CS allowed me to actually tank, especially when having to compete with an disciple's massive hits.

However, most of the time these days you see a damage dealer "tanking" its because no one else can compete on threat.

My cursed AT has CC in a power I only use in order to break blocks, almost exclusively in pvp. Yet, its usually me who ends up tanking because no one can generate enough threat and for me to lose threat I'd basically have to stop attacking for long periods of time.

However, making CS innate sounds plausible - the problem being that tanks don't always run protector role (hybrid).

crypticbuxom

I prefer it that anyone can pay points to have the block breaker with the taunt attached . Its the cost of removing the staple ability to block. You have the aggression of the target. Plus its fun to have a normally non-tank have the ability and then run like hell. Its a taunt and should be used for things other than tanking, like saving the tank that is in over their head. Players should save tanks too from the wrath of a boss.

Besides, when this new tech that beefs up the boss the longer their agro is held by a single target comes out, the tanks are going to want someone to pull them off or they are going to melt. It doesn't matter how durable they are and how many healers are on them.

Crippling Challenge and Challenging Strikes should stay as is.

shadowzero66

You'd be taking away the "Challenge" from Crippling Challenge...

If Tanks are having problems taking aggro away from DPSers and aren't as competitive a choice as Hybrids with Bulwark, why not simply boost the threat bonus of the Tank role? That and a bonus to healing received.

X % bonus to damage
X % increased threat (I think it's currently X/2 %)
X/2 % bonus healing received

This sort of looks like the Hybrid bonus layout, except for that there's an increased innate threat bonus and the bonus healing is for incoming heals (either from yourself or others; if you're going to hybrid between tanking and healing others, that's what the... hybrid role is for).

You could also have CS and CC grant increased bonus threat when in the Tank role (a la Circle of Primal Dominion).

It'd be nice if the game had a bit more things that modify threat. Defensive Combo and Circle of Primal Dominion are the only two powers that explicitly give increased threat (though some pets do have increased threat) while Shadow Form and Circle of Ebon Wrath are the only two powers that explicitly give reduced threat (aggro-dumping is a related, but different, thing). The only specialization that deals with threat is Bulwark and that doesn't seem to be really helping the Tank role.