Limiting self heals is not needed when you give more enemies debuffs which affect healing or defense.
what we need is not to limit builds but to enhance enemies.
Actually we do need to limit builds. Diminishing return effects when people start overlapping power and effects are needed. It's why we currently have the problem of people just chaining defensives and offensives together. The same can happen with quite a few powers in game, but currently those aren't as necessary because of the offensive defensive thing. Checks and balances are needed, and it wouldn't damage characters to start bringing balance to the game. It would just reign in the crazy builds ruining the game, for starters, and you really can't bring anything challenging to the game until you reign them in, otherwise you will have to set the difficulty based on the top builds just to keep it a challenge.
making self heals share cooldowns is simply bad. too much of a hit to build and concept diversity.
you need to be able to survive on a character as much as the concept calls for.
Sylviana wouldnt be Sylviana if she couldnt both hit hard and have decent defense.
this isn't a role focused game. its a game about hybrids with roles tacked on.
A 5 second CD isn't even a hit to build and concept diversity. There are few instances where you need such overlapping healing done. And this would be personal heals, not external ones. Things like stacking chi, shielding and stuff.
I've read the suggestion and it is a hit to build and concept diversity especially considering its completely unnecessary.
what we need is better AI and enemy mechanics, not more build limitations and power nerfs.
the game is easy because the enemies are plain stupid. like test dummies with an attack and a homing device once aggroed.
There's little they can do to the AI without making ti cheap. The games easy because of combinations and neglecting the ridiculousness of the power creep isn't going to solve the overlying issue. A lot of powers in this game need to be brought to heel if people expect challenge to enter.
the problem with your statement is the enemies are demonstrably stupid. theres more powers which need to be buffed up than powers that need to be nerfed.
the powers which need nerfing I can count on one hand.
Combinations will always happen. Smart building should be rewarded not punished with a vicious never ending cycle of nerfs which occurs because people want to find challenge in gangsters with poor AI rather than epic cosmic bosses.
And if you upped their intelligence they become too hard for some people. You already have people who think some bosses rely on cheap, gimmicky one hit kills even though they are easily avoidable. But raising the AI doesn't change the simple fact; unless the powers are brought to heel,t eh challenge is not going to go up. And you're other option remains to build your challenge around the extreme power builders, which means the majority of the populace will not be able to play.
you've mentioned yourself that some people are new and don't know how to play or just suck.
nerfing powers does nothing to change that, everyone uses powers from the same pool.
when people pick useless powers which have needed major buffing since forever because they don't know better, that's only illustrating my point.
when you up the enemy intelligence instead, you enable builds to matter less than strategy. good game design is more rewarding for smart play than it is for smart builds, yet rewards both.
Buffing powers is not the right answer. Bringing powers to heel along a proper difficulty curve is what is required. They go hand in hand. I never said players sucked I said they don't do specific basics, there's a keen difference. It depends on how they were taught to play MMOs. For instance, the City of Heroes crowd are use to slow, steady, almost turn based style combat, and are not use to the fast, fluid combat that requires things like actually thinking getting surrounded by 50 guys might actually be dangerous. They aren't use to things like blocking, or powers they don't have to wait for to use.
It would be like a CO player going and playing say, World of ******** with no prior experience. While mechanics are similar how the games handle each other is different enough that they wouldn't be use to it. Things like the massive power bar, the inability to step out of the way of attacks and so forth might be overwhelming.
But that still doesn't change the fact, there is a small amount of powers that are the best of the best. No one who is serious about their character would be caught dead without these powers. This is obvious sign they are overpowered. Things like Masterful Dodge, Ascension, Ego Surge, Bionic Shielding, Burning Chi, Unbreakable, Laser Knight, Two Gun Mojo, Haymaker, etc. These powers are too good for starters, so are the passives. The other powers don't suck it's many of these primely picked powers are picked because they are just that good that taking anything else is pointless. And buffing up other powers is not the solution to that problem either. Buffing is what got these powers overpowered to begin with.
I'm giving the main reason why people would take them for a themed build. which is of course what gives builds their character.
no one likes a franken build except pvpers. and even some pvpers don't like em.
Some people are just number crunchers that want to see the most they can squeeze out of a build. It has nothing to do with PvP or PvE... it's just their personal preference. Same goes for thematic builds.
@Aleatha1011 in CO | Keeper of the Cheesecake since Nov. 2011| Bunni BOT is on PRIMUS! | Come check out my deviantart page!
Buffing powers is not the right answer. Bringing powers to heel along a proper difficulty curve is what is required. They go hand in hand. I never said players sucked I said they don't do specific basics, there's a keen difference. It depends on how they were taught to play MMOs. For instance, the City of Heroes crowd are use to slow, steady, almost turn based style combat, and are not use to the fast, fluid combat that requires things like actually thinking getting surrounded by 50 guys might actually be dangerous. They aren't use to things like blocking, or powers they don't have to wait for to use.
It would be like a CO player going and playing say, World of ******** with no prior experience. While mechanics are similar how the games handle each other is different enough that they wouldn't be use to it. Things like the massive power bar, the inability to step out of the way of attacks and so forth might be overwhelming.
But that still doesn't change the fact, there is a small amount of powers that are the best of the best. No one who is serious about their character would be caught dead without these powers. This is obvious sign they are overpowered. Things like Masterful Dodge, Ascension, Ego Surge, Bionic Shielding, Burning Chi, Unbreakable, Laser Knight, Two Gun Mojo, Haymaker, etc. These powers are too good for starters, so are the passives. The other powers don't suck it's many of these primely picked powers are picked because they are just that good that taking anything else is pointless. And buffing up other powers is not the solution to that problem either. Buffing is what got these powers overpowered to begin with.
lol talking about CoH out your arse again and you wonder why CoHers here tend to have so much contempt for the fanboi component of the population.
Most of the first wave of CO players where CoHers many like myself also chose to play both games while they both existed for different reasons. For me CoH was the social game, the one where teaming felt right and was fun, CO was the MMO I chose to play when I mainly wanted to solo and occasionally group up to help out those who hadnt figured out things yet, you know mentoring rather then insulting them with every word they say. CO certainly plays faster so fast teaming is virtually a hinderance and this is not unique to CO, DDO has the same aspect, and has built in voice chat for that very reason. A half way decent functioning one that has been with it since launch 8 or so years ago.
But CoH wasnt slow not for those who wanted it to be otherwise. I loved using fly over hover for combat as you kept momentum to drift while attacking, I loved a heavy global recharge build that made my main attack cycles be so fast I could spam the longest cool down of my powers back to back on my scrapper for example a feat that seemed to impress far to many of my CoH peers admittedly but I was used to even top CoH players often missing obvious things. Same goes for alot of MMO populations. Ive seen regular TF and raid leaders in games who would run them ******** about the gimpness of their build and gear choices when they where virtually identical to my own or others whom I knew of and would of considered top tier set ups. Some people are never satisfied or honestly dont relize how much they have going for them with a character, most of the time its because they copied the build idea from others rather then played it up from scratch learning its ins and outs. CO suffers from this heavily with the power of fully retconning a free form. Year one many on CO frequently griped about being gimp when they had chosen to remake a toon via full retcon on a unused 40 and be confused why they didnt instantly perform top tier in pvp with their new build that someone else was using to dominate the very same players beating on the copier.
lol talking about CoH out your arse again and you wonder why CoHers here tend to have so much contempt for the fanboi component of the population.
Yes, because pointing out the facts actually is talking out my ****. :rolleyes: I just love how when people don't like hearing the truth they call it fanboism, but then again, CoH players are world renowned for their fanboism to, as that long post of trying to prove me wrong proves.
I find it most funny that it's the CoH contempt that causes the rift, nothing else since the CO player base has been nothing but welcoming. But do continue that firm belief that anytime someone makes a view of your precious fanboi dreams, your panties get so wound up you probably lose blood circulation to your legs. It's amusing to watch. It's especially amusing how far you embarrassed yourself since you obviously only skimmed and missed what was actually said.
Comments
Actually we do need to limit builds. Diminishing return effects when people start overlapping power and effects are needed. It's why we currently have the problem of people just chaining defensives and offensives together. The same can happen with quite a few powers in game, but currently those aren't as necessary because of the offensive defensive thing. Checks and balances are needed, and it wouldn't damage characters to start bringing balance to the game. It would just reign in the crazy builds ruining the game, for starters, and you really can't bring anything challenging to the game until you reign them in, otherwise you will have to set the difficulty based on the top builds just to keep it a challenge.
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A 5 second CD isn't even a hit to build and concept diversity. There are few instances where you need such overlapping healing done. And this would be personal heals, not external ones. Things like stacking chi, shielding and stuff.
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That is all fully subjective.
There's little they can do to the AI without making ti cheap. The games easy because of combinations and neglecting the ridiculousness of the power creep isn't going to solve the overlying issue. A lot of powers in this game need to be brought to heel if people expect challenge to enter.
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And if you upped their intelligence they become too hard for some people. You already have people who think some bosses rely on cheap, gimmicky one hit kills even though they are easily avoidable. But raising the AI doesn't change the simple fact; unless the powers are brought to heel,t eh challenge is not going to go up. And you're other option remains to build your challenge around the extreme power builders, which means the majority of the populace will not be able to play.
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Buffing powers is not the right answer. Bringing powers to heel along a proper difficulty curve is what is required. They go hand in hand. I never said players sucked I said they don't do specific basics, there's a keen difference. It depends on how they were taught to play MMOs. For instance, the City of Heroes crowd are use to slow, steady, almost turn based style combat, and are not use to the fast, fluid combat that requires things like actually thinking getting surrounded by 50 guys might actually be dangerous. They aren't use to things like blocking, or powers they don't have to wait for to use.
It would be like a CO player going and playing say, World of ******** with no prior experience. While mechanics are similar how the games handle each other is different enough that they wouldn't be use to it. Things like the massive power bar, the inability to step out of the way of attacks and so forth might be overwhelming.
But that still doesn't change the fact, there is a small amount of powers that are the best of the best. No one who is serious about their character would be caught dead without these powers. This is obvious sign they are overpowered. Things like Masterful Dodge, Ascension, Ego Surge, Bionic Shielding, Burning Chi, Unbreakable, Laser Knight, Two Gun Mojo, Haymaker, etc. These powers are too good for starters, so are the passives. The other powers don't suck it's many of these primely picked powers are picked because they are just that good that taking anything else is pointless. And buffing up other powers is not the solution to that problem either. Buffing is what got these powers overpowered to begin with.
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Are you sure that is why so many people take those powers ?
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
Some people are just number crunchers that want to see the most they can squeeze out of a build. It has nothing to do with PvP or PvE... it's just their personal preference. Same goes for thematic builds.
@Aleatha1011 in CO | Keeper of the Cheesecake since Nov. 2011| Bunni BOT is on PRIMUS! | Come check out my deviantart page!
lol talking about CoH out your arse again and you wonder why CoHers here tend to have so much contempt for the fanboi component of the population.
Most of the first wave of CO players where CoHers many like myself also chose to play both games while they both existed for different reasons. For me CoH was the social game, the one where teaming felt right and was fun, CO was the MMO I chose to play when I mainly wanted to solo and occasionally group up to help out those who hadnt figured out things yet, you know mentoring rather then insulting them with every word they say. CO certainly plays faster so fast teaming is virtually a hinderance and this is not unique to CO, DDO has the same aspect, and has built in voice chat for that very reason. A half way decent functioning one that has been with it since launch 8 or so years ago.
But CoH wasnt slow not for those who wanted it to be otherwise. I loved using fly over hover for combat as you kept momentum to drift while attacking, I loved a heavy global recharge build that made my main attack cycles be so fast I could spam the longest cool down of my powers back to back on my scrapper for example a feat that seemed to impress far to many of my CoH peers admittedly but I was used to even top CoH players often missing obvious things. Same goes for alot of MMO populations. Ive seen regular TF and raid leaders in games who would run them ******** about the gimpness of their build and gear choices when they where virtually identical to my own or others whom I knew of and would of considered top tier set ups. Some people are never satisfied or honestly dont relize how much they have going for them with a character, most of the time its because they copied the build idea from others rather then played it up from scratch learning its ins and outs. CO suffers from this heavily with the power of fully retconning a free form. Year one many on CO frequently griped about being gimp when they had chosen to remake a toon via full retcon on a unused 40 and be confused why they didnt instantly perform top tier in pvp with their new build that someone else was using to dominate the very same players beating on the copier.
Yes, because pointing out the facts actually is talking out my ****. :rolleyes: I just love how when people don't like hearing the truth they call it fanboism, but then again, CoH players are world renowned for their fanboism to, as that long post of trying to prove me wrong proves.
I find it most funny that it's the CoH contempt that causes the rift, nothing else since the CO player base has been nothing but welcoming. But do continue that firm belief that anytime someone makes a view of your precious fanboi dreams, your panties get so wound up you probably lose blood circulation to your legs. It's amusing to watch. It's especially amusing how far you embarrassed yourself since you obviously only skimmed and missed what was actually said.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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