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Massively's Take on Improving CO

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  • jonsillsjonsills Posts: 6,318 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    How can you have the good fortune to be in the position of hiring the guy responsible for running and evolving the most successful Superhero MMO of all time - and fail to assign him to turn-around their ailing Champions-Online!?..... i don't even.... :confused:
    Because the Klingon experience in STO needed some love even worse. I don't know if you've ever played it, but in its current Live state, you have to start off at lvl 20, but you have to fight (in a tamed-down dueling circle) for the right to have your ship, then you become the enemy of one of the Great Houses because you did their rival a favor once.

    In the revamp version, currently on their test server, you start off at lvl 1, as second officer of a Klingon frigate; you find evidence that your captain is guilty of treason, and report this to the first officer. She promptly challenges him, by Klingon tradition, and loses. He then notifies you that you are now first officer; accordingly, you present him with your proof of his treachery, then duel him and win. You now have command, Klingon-style. You still have to do that duel-circle thing on Qo'noS, but now it's just to confirm your command. And you become the House's enemy because what you've done has disrupted their plans to destroy another House, exposed their treachery, and resulted in their discommendation by the Chancellor.

    Now that he's done with that, though, we could really use some better writing on our side of the house... :smile:
    "Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"

    - David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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  • crypticbuxomcrypticbuxom Posts: 4,621 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    jonsills wrote: »
    Now that he's done with that, though, we could really use some better writing on our side of the house... :smile:

    That's some clever writing there. We need more story driven stuff on this end that makes our heroes feel like their own story is unfolding. Lately its starting to feel like DCUO and how we are becoming more like the Champions' sidekicks rather than equals.
  • towershield#4714 towershield Posts: 1,208 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    That's some clever writing there. We need more story driven stuff on this end that makes our heroes feel like their own story is unfolding. Lately its starting to feel like DCUO and how we are becoming more like the Champions' sidekicks rather than equals.

    For CO, this is a unique complaint. I really don't see how anyone can come to that conclusion. The writing in this game has never placed player characters into that sort of role. Ever.
    ___________________________________________________________________________________________
  • rokurocarisrokurocaris Posts: 1,074 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    jonsills wrote: »
    Because the Klingon experience in STO needed some love even worse. I don't know if you've ever played it, but in its current Live state, you have to start off at lvl 20, but you have to fight (in a tamed-down dueling circle) for the right to have your ship, then you become the enemy of one of the Great Houses because you did their rival a favor once.

    In the revamp version, currently on their test server, you start off at lvl 1, as second officer of a Klingon frigate; you find evidence that your captain is guilty of treason, and report this to the first officer. She promptly challenges him, by Klingon tradition, and loses. He then notifies you that you are now first officer; accordingly, you present him with your proof of his treachery, then duel him and win. You now have command, Klingon-style. You still have to do that duel-circle thing on Qo'noS, but now it's just to confirm your command. And you become the House's enemy because what you've done has disrupted their plans to destroy another House, exposed their treachery, and resulted in their discommendation by the Chancellor.

    Now that he's done with that, though, we could really use some better writing on our side of the house... :smile:

    I have a KDF character in STO, and this is a very welcome change.
    Of course, since CO is my #1 game, Positron becomming a CO dev would be even more welcome! :biggrin:
  • meedacthunistmeedacthunist Posts: 2,961 Arc User1
    edited May 2013
    jonsills wrote: »
    Because the Klingon experience in STO needed some love even worse. I don't know if you've ever played it, but in its current Live state, you have to start off at lvl 20, but you have to fight (in a tamed-down dueling circle) for the right to have your ship, then you become the enemy of one of the Great Houses because you did their rival a favor once.

    In the revamp version, currently on their test server, you start off at lvl 1, as second officer of a Klingon frigate; you find evidence that your captain is guilty of treason, and report this to the first officer. She promptly challenges him, by Klingon tradition, and loses. He then notifies you that you are now first officer; accordingly, you present him with your proof of his treachery, then duel him and win. You now have command, Klingon-style. You still have to do that duel-circle thing on Qo'noS, but now it's just to confirm your command. And you become the House's enemy because what you've done has disrupted their plans to destroy another House, exposed their treachery, and resulted in their discommendation by the Chancellor.

    Now that he's done with that, though, we could really use some better writing on our side of the house... :smile:

    This sounds very Klingon like and makes a great start for non-Klingon characters throwing them into Klingon style politics. From this post it looks well made.

    CO really could use a better writing, like this one.
  • crypticbuxomcrypticbuxom Posts: 4,621 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    For CO, this is a unique complaint. I really don't see how anyone can come to that conclusion. The writing in this game has never placed player characters into that sort of role. Ever.

    We're pretty close to getting there. Almost happened in the Harbinger Alert with the Champions taking the credit in the end. They changed it when the players said "balls to that."

    I'm just saying that what has been set up throughout the game so far needs to be continued and further unravel as our heroes become more epic.

    Though the writing has been shotty lately if not sparce.
  • atringatring Posts: 233 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I need to reiterate that it was only contract work. Matt has not been hired by Cryptic.
    ***************


    Part of the problem since December, 2012.
  • crypticbuxomcrypticbuxom Posts: 4,621 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Not like that makes a difference in what we get anyways. We're dreamers. Its what we have left of this game.
  • jennymachxjennymachx Posts: 3,000 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Well here's my take on it.

    The Foundry is more than welcome.

    The direction of churning out temporary events is not.

    Let's talk about what worked and is still working for temporary events for other games. Holiday events work for the simple reason of festivity. Specialized events like invasions work very well because they're unique in their own way and are usually on an epic scale. CoX's Rikti Invasions were very enjoyable and really enaged the community to work together to combat an overwhelming threat. The Destroid invasion and Blood Moon for CO are in the same vein.

    These sort of events are great for creating renewed hype for the game to draw new players and get returning players interested, and work well if used in absolute moderation, otherwise they get worn out quickly and they lose their replayability appeal. It should not be the substitution for regular permanent content additions. In fact, permanent content additions can work even better for creating renewed hype.

    If you're going to just rely on recycled events spread between each other within a few months just to make up for the lack of new content, people are going to see through that BS pretty quick and there goes the interest.
  • selpheaselphea Posts: 1,229 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I guess they wanted to give the Champions a win to avoid the Worf effect on them.

    The usual stories so far involve some Champion getting owned and the player having to step in to save the day. Especially Witchcraft :x
  • sistersiliconsistersilicon Posts: 1,687 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Don't forget that some UNITY final missions offer you Champions members as your sidekicks, and for most builds, you don't even need them. I can't imagine that happening anywhere in DCUO.
    Choose your enemies carefully, because they will define you / Make them interesting, because in some ways they will mind you
    They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
  • kojirohellfirekojirohellfire Posts: 2,075 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    It's sad seeing a game neglected like this. Even moreso after NCSoft murdered another certain game I liked. It doesn't really give me much hope for this game's future.
  • rianfrostrianfrost Posts: 578 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    jonsills wrote: »
    He's responsible for the new Klingon tutorial?

    All right, guys, we need a crack commando team to travel to San Jose, break into Cryptic HQ, kidnap Positron from the STO team, and escort him to CO stat. Who's in?
    you have my axe...ok actually my characters usually use their fists, but "you have my fist" sounds all kinds of wrong.
  • x0y1x0y1 Posts: 29 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I have a KDF character in STO, and this is a very welcome change.
    Of course, since CO is my #1 game, Positron becomming a CO dev would be even more welcome! :biggrin:

    It's not only the Klingon missions. Played a bit in the open beta and the new stuff the implemented for the Romulan is a big improvement for STO. IMHO the presentation is way ahead of the NWO counterpart.

    So yeah, steal the foundry from NWO (with bug fixes) and then some devs from STO. :wink:
  • flamingbunnymanflamingbunnyman Posts: 2,035 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    x0y1 wrote: »
    It's not only the Klingon missions. Played a bit in the open beta and the new stuff the implemented for the Romulan is a big improvement for STO.

    The Romulan stuff isn't Matt's. But at least some of it is the doing of Sean "Dr. Aeon" McCann, one of the writers for CoH during some of its best story lines.
    _________________________________________________
    @flamingbunnyman in game. Formerly @Roderick in City of Heroes.
  • wethree1wethree1 Posts: 149 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    STO notwitstanding, Matt is amazing and I'd love any of the people involved in CoH in it's heyday (which, oddly it was axed right in the halcyon of).

    Why is the Superhero MMO niche so facacta? I don't really play other MMO's (thought about Secret World, but just couldn't hand in my cape), so is this just the state of the industry, or is the Superhero niche just getting hammered for some reason?
  • canadascottcanadascott Posts: 1,257 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    It was good to hear their thoughts on Events, particularly the Lemurian event we had recently. I had been meaning to write a postmortem which that covered a similar point, and that was the poor use of zones to support the event. Good to see someone else noticed this.

    The focus was too narrow and constrained. You should have been able to visit Arvad (and maybe Marus) in Lemuria and ask him about the event; surely it can't be hard (or too much of a strain on the system) to write a couple of lines of dialogue and character talk options and add it to the system (and subtract it when the event ends). Similarly, a small daily quest in Lemuria would have been a nice reward for high level characters and a mission along the lines of the week 2 dailies shouldn't be too hard to implement and could have done some nice foreshadowing of the finale.

    You have a wide world out there and there are plenty of blank spots to put them in. Let's use events to the fullest and encourage players to go out beyond Millennium.
    /CanadaBanner4.jpg
  • kojirohellfirekojirohellfire Posts: 2,075 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    wethree1 wrote: »
    STO notwitstanding, Matt is amazing and I'd love any of the people involved in CoH in it's heyday (which, oddly it was axed right in the halcyon of).

    Why is the Superhero MMO niche so facacta? I don't really play other MMO's (thought about Secret World, but just couldn't hand in my cape), so is this just the state of the industry, or is the Superhero niche just getting hammered for some reason?

    CoH: NCSoft is too patently stupid and selfish to realize they had a good thing going on here.

    CO: Cryptic management; 'nuff said.

    DCUO: The designers made it WoW with tights and ****ty UI.

    MUO: lol Diablo.
  • bwdaresbwdares Posts: 1,517 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Personally i am done blaming PWE. I am blamming Cryptic. I blame our Phantom Executive Producer. Obviously he cant get the job done. Move him out and get someone else who can sell this game to PWE to get more Funding.

    Is there a place we can get emails for people in Cryptic? We need to start a email protest to get them to notice us. I would say do that on Facebook but you can post new topics on their wall.
    #Mechanon!(completed) #New Zones! #Foundry!
  • honestresearcherhonestresearcher Posts: 657 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    bwdares wrote: »
    Personally i am done blaming PWE. I am blamming Cryptic.

    I'v felt that way since Free2Play
  • crypticbuxomcrypticbuxom Posts: 4,621 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    The only harm that F2P has done to Champions is that it made Cryptic too big headed and they squandered the huge boost of income.
  • dantheiceman1dantheiceman1 Posts: 121 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    The only harm that F2P has done to Champions is that it made Cryptic too big headed and they squandered the huge boost of income.

    exactly!!

    cryptic got too big for their pants, and took on too many projects without managing the resources they already have. and since management is CLEARLY INCOMPETENT at their jobs since they make too much money for doing pretty much nothing.

    they turn around and put all the money into star trek and neverwinter, and completely ignoring the genre that they helped from the break the super hero curse, and create!

    the sad part about it is that there are NO other superhero games that are even good, champs is a half baked and half finished rotting pile, don't even get me started about diablo universe online i mean marvel universe online, and DC i am not going to touch a sony product since all they do is get hacked, and kill games like star wars galaxies.

    we have to start an email protest aimed DIRECTLY at upper management, because that is where the problem lies. not the grunts that do as they are told. its not their fault, but at owners, and management since it IS THEIR fault
    http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=124755
    The Nemesis system needs fixing and here's ideas:
    A business that makes nothing but money is a poor business. Henry Ford
  • mushermusher Posts: 166 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    So I'm not the only one with a protest idea? Good. When someone manages to find where to shoot, you have my axe.
    __________________________________________________
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • bloodx13bloodx13 Posts: 217 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Cryptic owns the IP this is their baby and they are being some ****ty parents.
  • sistersiliconsistersilicon Posts: 1,687 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    musher wrote: »
    So I'm not the only one with a protest idea? Good. When someone manages to find where to shoot, you have my axe.

    I'd love to have a massive group photo of as many toons as possible in RenCen. Maybe get multiple instances and composite them together. Put that side-by-side with some of the CoH protest gatherings on Paragon City Hall's front steps. Finish it off with the caption:

    DEAR CRYPTIC
    WE BUILT YOU
    Choose your enemies carefully, because they will define you / Make them interesting, because in some ways they will mind you
    They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
  • rianfrostrianfrost Posts: 578 Arc User
    edited May 2013

    DCUO: The designers made it WoW with tights and ****ty UI.

    you know, it really is a horrible ui. i have played most of the mmos on the market right now outside of secret"no real martial arts powerset"world, and yeah, dcou is baffling in its horrid u.i. i made a specced healing character there, i SHOULd be trying to get in groups, but I can barely chat without growing extra fingers because the setup is so bad and what the @#$% is with only having 6 powers on a hotbar? yeah damage role /utility role blah blah, bottom line is thats too few powers. i ran coh with 3 full bars, and lets not even get into my kheld. he had more bars... than id put on the doors at cryptic to keep devs in CO rather than being dragged to other games by jack.
  • mushermusher Posts: 166 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Like I said, you have my axe. Just make it happen after this wednesday so I can actually be there. Guard duty hasn't gone anywhere.
    __________________________________________________
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • tdewtdew Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I know I'm not active on the forums or even in game anymore (although, I'd love to be), but
    The way I see it:

    Straight answer TT or Cryptic: What has to be done to get this game back on track?


    I love this game, this genre (learned to read on older siblings' comics), and have thrown so much money at this game it's depressing to look back at it. (lifetime sub from before launch, over 30 costume slots on each character upon creation, over 20 character slots bought, 70% of the costume packs released, about 60% of the travel power skins bought, and that's before we even add in my stipend).

    I think the article linked highlights a few of the major problems that we have all complained about again and again.

    I have watched this game go from (Just after launch) New Zone (Vibora) and NEw Event (blood moon and Xmas), to new adventure packs, to "let's break the adventure packs up into comic series" (which I was still okay with) to new 3 minute alerts to new...temp events?!?!?! And to top it all off the things I loved about the game (ie: playing with powers, costumes and customization) being left by the wayside. Tell me honestly, when can we expect new costume packs, persistent content or something we can customize. Nemesis....a forgotten about feature that should have been great; Hideouts...ditto, Vehicles...why did we even believe you guys?

    Give me something to log in for and I will. Give me a reason to care and I will, Give me a reason to sell all my friends this game and I will.

    Problem is, with all my wasted stipend right now....even if they did release something I'd wanna buy, I could afford it for free......{sigh}.

    Sorry for the rant. My question remains though...what will it take?
  • rokurocarisrokurocaris Posts: 1,074 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    rianfrost wrote: »
    you know, it really is a horrible ui. i have played most of the mmos on the market right now outside of secret"no real martial arts powerset"world, and yeah, dcou is baffling in its horrid u.i. i made a specced healing character there, i SHOULd be trying to get in groups, but I can barely chat without growing extra fingers because the setup is so bad and what the @#$% is with only having 6 powers on a hotbar? yeah damage role /utility role blah blah, bottom line is thats too few powers. i ran coh with 3 full bars, and lets not even get into my kheld. he had more bars... than id put on the doors at cryptic to keep devs in CO rather than being dragged to other games by jack.

    Neverwinter gives you only 3 powers, plus your two basic attacks, one defensive move, one class power, two passives and two finishing moves.
    Sounds like a lot, but you still can use only 3 of your powers. Heck, there is no rule in any Dungeons & Dragons book that says "Your character can learn 11 spells, but only have 3 ready at a time"!
    Seriously, Neverwinter's UI is worse than DCUO's! :eek:
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