therakiel

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i want to make a character that got caught between the therakiel and shadow destroyer fight turning him into a "burning nephilim"

would this work lorewize? does therakiel have any connection to the qlipthothic realm?

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No, he has nothing to do with the Q realm.

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there is nothing stopping you >.> i mean you have a premise for your toon already



i know nothing of the Champions lore other then what is in CO

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Therakiel is a fallen angel, but one who didn't wholly side with either Lucifer's rebellion or Heaven's "establishment." Hence he exists as part-angel, part-demon, his powers having characteristics of both the divine and the infernal.

The Qliphothic dimensions have no connection to either Heaven or Hell. They're completely alien to and the antithesis of matter, energy, and life as humans understand the concepts. Contact with the Qliphoth usually corrupts, physically, mentally, and spiritually.

You can of course execute whatever concept you wish for your character. If you can justify it to your satisfaction, more power to you. But since you're asking about the lore, lore-wise the prospects for your character coming out healthy and sane from the combination of forces you describe don't look good. Even if he did, his chances of not developing a "villainous" personality from these influences would be even smaller.

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Lord_Liaden wrote:

Therakiel is a fallen angel, but one who didn't wholly side with either Lucifer's rebellion or Heaven's "establishment." Hence he exists as part-angel, part-demon, his powers having characteristics of both the divine and the infernal.

The Qliphothic dimensions have no connection to either Heaven or Hell. They're completely alien to and the antithesis of matter, energy, and life as humans understand the concepts. Contact with the Qliphoth usually corrupts, physically, mentally, and spiritually.

You can of course execute whatever concept you wish for your character. If you can justify it to your satisfaction, more power to you. But since you're asking about the lore, lore-wise the prospects for your character coming out healthy and sane from the combination of forces you describe don't look good. Even if he did, his chances of not developing a "villainous" personality from these influences would be even smaller.

course from reading the old 5th edition villan bios it seems like just getting super powers has a tendancy to turn you evil and amoral anyway so super heros tend to beat those odds all the time:)

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I think that's a fair reflection of human nature, though. Most people who suddenly gained the ability to get away with a lot, would be sorely tempted at the very least. Being heroic is hard work.

This issue has come up on the boards before. Because the Qliphoth has been referred to so often in Champions Online, players have come to assume it's reasonable to use for character origins, without really understanding what it is conceptually. Familiarity breeds contempt, perhaps. Our forum colleague darkblade98 announced a podcast discussing that very issue this past week: http://forums.champions-online.com/showthread.php?t=139704

Then there's a previous Q&A on the "Lore Questions for Steve" thread regarding Qliphothic character origins.

Ngai wrote:

Hey Steve I wonder if there can ever be a hero or Heroes that used or was exposed to Q realm energy, or took a object or anything from the Qrealm?

Lord_Liaden wrote:

Well, I'm not Steve, of course; but given that every human exposed to the energies of the Qliphothic worlds in the published Champions PnP lore has become evil and monstrous, I'd have to say the odds are very heavily against it. Of course you can choose otherwise in your own games.

HeroSteve wrote:

I suppose it's possible (this is a comic book universe after all! ) but I think it's highly unlikely. Qliphothic energies are so negative -- so inimical to ordinary life, so destructive, so evil from our perspective -- that anyone touched by them is likely to be so corrupted that he wouldn't become a hero. If he could function at all, he'd become a villain.

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If you've ever read Lovecraft you've a good idea what even hints or glimpses of the Q relm will do to a human mind/psyche. To say nothing of being actually present in that realm.

The game gets around this a bit by saying the part we entered was a mini pocket crafted specificly by Luthor Black to serve his purposes. A oasis of sorts.

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I think it's fair to say that the necessities of MMO storytelling, and the limits of animation vs. imagination, have almost inevitably led to a depiction of Qliphothic space and entities in CO that differs significantly from the PnP game, and which has led some players to assume things that don't match the lore. The Demonflame story arc, for example, leads us into a fairly typical Hellscape, with towers and dungeons, winged humanoid demons (who actually do look similar to Therakiel's Nephilim), and human avatars of the Kings of Edom you can speak and negotiate with. In the PnP game the descriptions of Qliphothic worlds are far more alien, and their inhabitants look like nothing human -- everything from giant arthropods, to flying squids, to abstract collections of lines and angles. Their thought processes are just as alien; it shouldn't be possible for humans to even communicate with Edomites beyond the simplest level. But how would one translate that to an MMO experience that would even be recognizable?

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teedon wrote:

i want to make a character that got caught between the therakiel and shadow destroyer

A Thershadiel sandwich.

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It would suit a villain really well.

The one thing is that my main (Tempest) has the SAME concept. Except that he was also in VIPER. I use Dark Aura recolored , some trey kings, nephilim and Serpent Lantern parts.

And besides, the Q realm is something like hell. "The Q realm is a hell dimension filled with mystic demons and unearthly creatures. For this I equipped a part that would make some attacks have shadow bursts, and the Dark Aura's black part also helps.

Would perfectly suit an avenger hero or a redeemed villain, or just a sorcerer with no afffiliation.

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LordRaiken wrote:

And besides, the Q realm is something like hell.

See, that assumption is exactly what I was talking about.

As an example, I'm going to quote some of the description of one of the dimensions of the Qliphothic, the Shining Darkness, from The Mystic World p. 48. (Champions Online sometimes uses the name "Shining Darkness" for all the universes of the Qliphoth, but it's only one of them.)

"Nearly everything in this mystical cosmos is black, in a multitude of shades and hues. Darkness itself becomes a form of radiation in this dimension. Human eyes do not like to see the Shining Darkness. Many sorts of Qliphothic entities dwell in this plane; you cannot say such creatures live...

In the Shining Darkness, huge, angular masses rise from vast, warped planes in utter disregard for gravity. Indistinct things flop and writhe between them. Every few miles stands a loose cluster of humanoid statues, like huge, squatting fetuses made of compacted grey ash. Qliphothic horrors nest in the empty eyesockets of their oversized heads.

Humans and other organic beings face danger just from being in this realm. The darkness slowly leeches away life energy and replaces it with the plane's own mysterious energies... As the Transform proceeds, a visitor's skin darkens. When the Transform is three quarters complete, the character's body turns completely black and starts to glow with the Shining Darkness's radiance. When the Transform completes, the being's body crumbles and the victim becomes a Qliphothic entity...

Mundane light sources such as flashlights or matches explode the moment someone activates them in the Shining Darkness, as the dimension rips out their stored energy... Other energy-emitting Powers and devices suffer a similar effect..."

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A friend of mine thought that the Q realm was Champions' hell, which confused him when he finally played through Vibora Bay Crisis. I told him to consider it not as a Hell Dimension, but as a Cthulhu Dimension.

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The fictional creations of H.P. Lovecraft are a major inspiration for this part of the Champions Universe, so it's a fair comparison; although the name and broad concept of the Qliphoth, particularly it being a source of spiritual corruption, comes from Kabbalah, along with the structure of the CU's mystical cosmology.

(I'm also starting to think that commonly nicknaming the Qliphothic cosmoses "the Q realm" may be contributing to players taking it more lightly than it warrants.)

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Even just referring to it as "the Q Realm" forces an assumption that Qliphoth is one particular dimension, when it's anything but that. Just as there are an infinite number of Sephirothic habitable, stable, and pocket dimensions, there are infinite Qliphothic dimensions, too.

What's shown in game is recognizable to anyone who knows lore as having Sephirothic properties, possibly a Yetzirah type.