Lore: The Elder Worms?

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I can't help but speculate on some of the aspects of the worms, especially the undisclosed bits. It seems to me that there's quite a bit of lore behind the worms left open to interpretation. I sincerely relish the idea that the bulk of the Elder Worms were once human.

With that said, I was curious what my fellow community members think of the Elder Worms and their former humanity. How long do you guys think it takes for a person to fully transform into a worm? Do they shed their skin, or do their limbs fuse together? Do they have any recollection of their memories, feelings, or thoughts when they were human? Or do they always have the "spirit" of an ancient worm shoved inside their body, overriding the human consciousness, no matter what?

The Elder Worms are among one of the only baddie type that I wish Cryptic would expand upon. So for now, I'm wondering if anyone's speculated on some similar qualities of the less common baddie types, specifically the Elder Worms ( for this thread ).

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THE source for lore on the Elder Worm is the recently-published sourcebook for PnP Champions, Champions Beyond. It includes a sizeable chapter devoted to their history, culture, goals, technology, and magic, as well as different classes of Elder Worm soldiers/ priests/ etc., and individual "super-class" Worms. CBY also devotes whole chapters to the Gadroon, Qularr, Hzeel, and the Malvans, as well as the Star*Guard and Earth's Moon. There's also much material on the rest of the solar system, alien races across the Milky Way and beyond, cosmic entities, and super-science artifacts.

For the moment CBY is available in PDF only, dowloadable from the Hero Games website store.

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shadowdragon00000 wrote:

I can't help but speculate on some of the aspects of the worms, especially the undisclosed bits. It seems to me that there's quite a bit of lore behind the worms left open to interpretation. I sincerely relish the idea that the bulk of the Elder Worms were once human.

With that said, I was curious what my fellow community members think of the Elder Worms and their former humanity. How long do you guys think it takes for a person to fully transform into a worm? Do they shed their skin, or do their limbs fuse together? Do they have any recollection of their memories, feelings, or thoughts when they were human? Or do they always have the "spirit" of an ancient worm shoved inside their body, overriding the human consciousness, no matter what?

The Elder Worms are among one of the only baddie type that I wish Cryptic would expand upon. So for now, I'm wondering if anyone's speculated on some similar qualities of the less common baddie types, specifically the Elder Worms ( for this thread ).

By the PnP lore, a human is transformed into an Elder Worm through exposure to the Slug's "Talisman of the Elder Worm," which stimulates the fragments of Worm DNA left in the human genome after forced interbreeding with the Worm many millennia ago. The process is rapid but not instantaneous, and can be interrupted before it's complete. Worms are roughly humanoid in configuration, but have no mouths (communicating telepathically), and their bodies are more flexible than a human's. The Talisman of the Elder Worm changes a human totally into a Worm, body, mind, and spirit. The transformed person retains some useful memories from its previous life, but none of its former personality. Transformed humans can be changed back through rituals which also require the Talisman, known to very few except the Slug himself. The Slug sometimes stops the transformation part way, producing what's known as a helminth. Helminths have some physical Worm characteristics, but can speak and function in dry environments that are debilitating to true Worms. They're all loyal to the Slug, however. The Slug uses helminths to infiltrate human society.

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Lord_Liaden wrote:

By the PnP lore, a human is transformed into an Elder Worm through exposure to the Slug's "Talisman of the Elder Worm," which stimulates the fragments of Worm DNA left in the human genome after forced interbreeding with the Worm many millennia ago. The process is rapid but not instantaneous, and can be interrupted before it's complete. Worms are roughly humanoid in configuration, but have no mouths (communicating telepathically), and their bodies are more flexible than a human's. The Talisman of the Elder Worm changes a human totally into a Worm, body, mind, and spirit. The transformed person retains some useful memories from its previous life, but none of its former personality. Transformed humans can be changed back through rituals which also require the Talisman, known to very few except the Slug himself. The Slug sometimes stops the transformation part way, producing what's known as a helminth. Helminths have some physical Worm characteristics, but can speak and function in dry environments that are debilitating to true Worms. They're all loyal to the Slug, however. The Slug uses helminths to infiltrate human society.

Fascinating. Thank you for shedding some light on it for me

So since the worms are roughly humanoid, their physical bodies have something that resemble limbs to an extent? Or do they only resemble humanoids via their armor, with the rest of their body being purely cylindrical? After all, the worms in game have cybernetic limbs.

Also, it mentions in the game that a worm can be reverted back if done quick enough after a fresh transformation. Was that limited to the game's lore? Or is that true for the PnP version as well, where a person is permanently a worm if they stay in that form for too long?

One last thing, a few worms in the game make mention that spirits from the ancient worms override the host body. When they say that, do they mean that the soul of a worm that existed previously overtakes the body? Or is it merely a figure of speech making a reference to "genetic memories" stored inside? ( in short, is the human consciousness corrupted, or does something completely override it? )

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shadowdragon00000 wrote:

Fascinating. Thank you for shedding some light on it for me

So since the worms are roughly humanoid, their physical bodies have something that resemble limbs to an extent? Or do they only resemble humanoids via their armor, with the rest of their body being purely cylindrical? After all, the worms in game have cybernetic limbs.

Also, it mentions in the game that a worm can be reverted back if done quick enough after a fresh transformation. Was that limited to the game's lore? Or is that true for the PnP version as well, where a person is permanently a worm if they stay in that form for too long?

One last thing, a few worms in the game make mention that spirits from the ancient worms override the host body. When they say that, do they mean that the soul of a worm that existed previously overtakes the body? Or is it merely a figure of speech making a reference to "genetic memories" stored inside? ( in short, is the human consciousness corrupted, or does something completely override it? )

Elder Worm do have two arms and two legs, although they're more flexible than humans' and have longer fingers. Their heads are long, conical, and mouthless. No PnP Worms are cybernetically modified, but they all do wear armored "humidity suits" which keep them warm and moist in temperate (or more severe) climates.

Whether and how long it takes before a transformed human is "permanently" a Worm isn't specified, but it is implied that the Slug can no longer be changed back, and any essence of the human his body once was is lost. It's also not specified whether the "soul" of a transformed human is a reincarnated Worm, or newly spawned with that transformation.

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Awesomeness. Thank you for the insight, I really appreciate it ^_^

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I forgot to add that although the body the Slug's spirit took over was once human, the Slug himself is explicitly stated to be the reincarnation of the supreme ruler of all Elder Worm, with most of the memories from that entity's former life. He hid his soul within a talisman in an ancient tomb a hundred thousand years ago, after the Worm rulers of Earth were overthrown, until a modern archaeologist discovered it -- and was possessed.

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Lord_Liaden wrote:

I forgot to add that although the body the Slug's spirit took over was once human, the Slug himself is explicitly stated to be the reincarnation of the supreme ruler of all Elder Worm, with most of the memories from that entity's former life. He hid his soul within a talisman in an ancient tomb a hundred thousand years ago, after the Worm rulers of Earth were overthrown, until a modern archaeologist discovered it -- and was possessed.

True, and this reminds me of something. I believe somewhere in the game it said that worm gems hold the souls/spirits of ancient elder worms, same as Slug. Though I could just be confusing it with something else, or just not remembering it right.

Either way, there seems to be some interesting discrepancies from the PnP lore and what's in CO. In CO it seems the physical appearances of the worms are different, most are projected to not have limbs, only Helminths are able to be restored to human form, and there are ray guns that can trigger the transformation as well ( which wasn't in the PnP books, afaik ). I wonder if Cryptic will ever touch up on the Elder Worms in CO

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That was certainly the case with the Slug's "Worm-Gem," and I believe an earlier incarnation of the character (before the current Hero Games owners rebooted the universe) made a bigger deal of Worm-Gems being needed to transform a human into an Elder Worm. In the current official CU, a few ancient Worms even survived in magic hibernation to the present day with their physical bodies intact.

There often seem to be minor discrepancies between the PnP and the MMO games, mostly reflecting the different needs of the two styles of game. I'm aware of a few instances in which Hero Games requested Cryptic allow them to differ from Champions Online. For the most part, though, the two are very close.

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A couple more notes about the Elder Worm that folks might find interesting: the Slug is constantly hunting for Elder Worm magic artifacts still hidden in obscure locations on Earth. His power has been augmented since his modern rebirth by artifacts he's already found. By the PnP game history, on two occasions the Slug has used such artifacts, and elaborate arcane rituals, to nearly transform all the humans in major cities (New York and London, respectively) into Elder Worms, until stopped by superheroes.

Also, the Slug and his Earthly followers are not the last Worms left in the galaxy. Other enclaves of them, and some of their monstrous servants, still hide in distant parts of the Milky Way, where they retreated after losing their epic war with the Malvans. As yet the Slug is unaware of them, but if they ever contact each other the extraterrestrial Worms will likely come to Earth to join their ruler.

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I'm sorry, who are the Malvans? What I've found mentioned conflicts with the Empyrians (sp?). Are these alternate names for the same race/faction/whatever, or are they distinct from one another?

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No apology necessary. That's what these threads are for.

The Malvans and Empyreans are indeed two very different groups. The Malvans are an incredibly ancient, humanoid alien race, the most scientifically-advanced in the Milky Way galaxy, with technology capable of seemingly miraculous feats. Today they're an apathetic, hedonistic people, devoted to the pursuit of diversion and entertainment, most notably gladiatorial games involving superpowered beings. However, for hundreds of thousands of years they ruled an interstellar empire embracing nearly half the galaxy. Half a million years ago they began a protracted war with the Elder Worm, who at their height ruled the other half of the galaxy. Over the course of three hundred millennia the Malvans gradually pushed the Worms back until their race was nearly annihilated. The Elder Worms who came to Earth in 150,000 BCE were one of a few remaining small groups seeking to hide from their Malvan hunters on distant, backwater planets.

OTOH the Empyreans are an unaging, superhumanly powerful race native to Earth, created roughly 500,000 years ago out of proto-human stock by mysterious, godlike aliens remembered only as "the Progenitors." The Progenitors tutored their creations in science and other disciplines, then disappeared, never revealing why they made them. Today the Empyreans dwell in a secret valley and city in Antarctica called Arcadia, made habitable and concealed from detection by highly advanced devices. In the past they often clashed with the Lemurians, who believe they can force from the Empyreans the secret of their immortality.

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I would offer up some additional lore but evidently the VIPER, Elder Worm and a couple of other tabs have gone missing and got mixed up with the regulars, like Dr. Destroyers Lore and such. This would make digging through these tabs rather problematic.

I am uncertain but isn't the arena you go into in NemCon an Malvan one?

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Silverspar wrote:

I would offer up some additional lore but evidently the VIPER, Elder Worm and a couple of other tabs have gone missing and got mixed up with the regulars, like Dr. Destroyers Lore and such. This would make digging through these tabs rather problematic.

I am uncertain but isn't the arena you go into in NemCon an Malvan one?

It's in the dungeons of the Forum Malvanum.